Smoke, Smog, Dust 2018 Chiang Mai

[WinnieTheKhwai]

 I don't know the source, but I do know that Nan isn't great for forests.  (Same as Chiang Rai actually in most places). 

 

It's pretty clear to see from above, too: 

 

[orang37]

Looking at today's Chiang Mai air measurements at aqith.com:

 

Interesting that CMU Campus is currently #124;  Nimman is #91; and, Thapae at #84.

 

I'd expect Nimman , and Thapae, to be higher, but given exact sensor  locations are not published, and the fact today/now is a Sunday/AM ... can we hypothesize ?.

 

~o:37;

[bkk6060]

6 hours ago, orang37 said:

Looking at today's Chiang Mai air measurements at aqith.com:

 

Interesting that CMU Campus is currently #124;  Nimman is #91; and, Thapae at #84.

 

I'd expect Nimman , and Thapae, to be higher, but given exact sensor  locations are not published, and the fact today/now is a Sunday/AM ... can we hypothesize ?.

 

~o:37;

??  Have you looked outside?

Today is pretty clear and cool with some sky clouds not smoke from my observation.  Went up on Moncham a few hours ago and could see everything.

Funny how the good days seem to never get mentioned.

[heybruce]

There is a cool, gusty wind (I expect some power outages) with some rain, possibly more to come, but very nice air in the Nimman area.  I suspect the same holds true for much of Chiang Mai.

 

I'll happily take it.  I hate breathing air that I can see.

[LolaS]

10 hours ago, orang37 said:

Looking at today's Chiang Mai air measurements at aqith.com:

 

Interesting that CMU Campus is currently #124;  Nimman is #91; and, Thapae at #84.

 

I'd expect Nimman , and Thapae, to be higher, but given exact sensor  locations are not published, and the fact today/now is a Sunday/AM ... can we hypothesize ?.

 

~o:37;

they are! every PIN blue one is location of sensor

[LolaS]

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.  This topic is not a study about biomass fuels, this topic is about fire & smoke conditions in Chiang Mai.

 

 

[mrmillersr]

On ‎4‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 2:57 PM, bkk6060 said:

??  Have you looked outside?

Today is pretty clear and cool with some sky clouds not smoke from my observation.  Went up on Moncham a few hours ago and could see everything.

Funny how the good days seem to never get mentioned.

The reason why the good days don't get mentioned is because they are few and far between.  How about taking a picture today and posting that or maybe not since PM 2.5 levels are http://aqicn.org/city/thailand/chiangmai/yupparaj-wittayalai-school/

[heybruce]

The clean air didn't last long. I thought the arsonists might wait until after Songkran before resuming their activities.  Wishful thinking on my part.

[orang37]

Yep, the 2.5 stuff is killing us:  "Short-Term Elevation of Fine Particulate Matter Air Pollution and Acute Lower Respiratory Infection"

 

Quote

The groundbreaking study, "Short-Term Elevation of Fine Particulate Matter Air Pollution and Acute Lower Respiratory Infection," is the largest to date on this health concern, involving more than 100,000 patients.

 

Quote

Even the briefest increase in airborne fine particulate matter PM2.5, pollution-causing particles that are about 3 percent of the diameter of human hair, is associated with the development of acute lower respiratory infection (ALRI) in young children, according to newly published research.

Quote

The research team found ALRI associated with elevated levels of PM2.5 in both children and adults -- even in newborns and toddlers up to age two, who represented 77% (112,467) of those who had an ALRI diagnosis.

 

Some interesting commentary on "inversion."

 

~o37;

[Cheesekraft]

Pm 2.5 over 200 during songkran...

[WinnieTheKhwai]

On 4/15/2018 at 3:01 PM, Cheesekraft said:

Pm 2.5 over 200 during songkran...

 

US AQI over 200 for several hours during Songkran. 

 

(Not the PM2.5 value: the maximum hourly reading was 175 for Mae Rim, corresponding to an hourly AQI value of 225.)

 

Daily average AQI during Songkran was 160 (13 April), 168 (14 April), 166 (15 April). 

 

So that's quite bad.

 

It's improving again though, for today I think we'll end up around 150 AQI

 

BTW, this is an extremely interesting analysis of the initial improvement and then worsening towards Songkran the past days:  http://chiangmaiair.org/analysis-april2018event.html  

 

[Cheesekraft]

Apr 23 and we still are hitting high 100s, 180 today.

[EnlightenedAtheist]

2 hours ago, Cheesekraft said:

Apr 23 and we still are hitting high 100s, 180 today.

Forecast for rain this week. Let's cross fingers that it dampens everything.

[hobz]

Horrible air last few days again...

 

I feel like this ban has just prolonged the smoke season.. 

 

When I moved her 5 years ago it was only during March (correct me if I'm wrong).

But this year it's been February, March and April... 3 months of shit air.

 

This is unacceptable,, but the useless and idiotic braindead careless government are too busy suing anyone that complains than to actually do anything.

And the locals that does the burning.. how <deleted> greedy and / or braindead are they?

 

Jesus.. sorry.. but I just can't take it anymore.. and I'm invested here with a house and girlfriend tied to her workplace here... Otherwise I would leave in an heartbeat.. or in a breath.

 

<deleted> I hate this aspect of Thailand.. the useless and stupid government and the <deleted> that do this shit.

 

Props to the locals that care enough to risk their freedom for complaining! My heart and lungs go out to you!

[simoh1490]

I have some questions:

 

Various entities are reporting air quality at different locations in Chiang Mai Province but there's only a limited number of sensors, I believe that CMU has a network of fourteen sensors and the PCD has a network of five sensors, four fixed and one mobile, is that still correct?

 

Pollution levels for locations that don't have sensors create readings for them based on models, that is certainly true for IQAir's infamous pollution by location app, is that correct for the remainder of location reports?

 

It used to be that PCD could not directly measure PM2.5 because they didn't have the technology in place, regardless, PM2.5 can be extrapolated from PM10 readings Does CMU or PCD now have the capability to measure PM2.5 directly?

 

Thanks 

 

[EnlightenedAtheist]

On 07/04/2018 at 8:11 AM, orang37 said:

Looking at today's Chiang Mai air measurements at aqith.com:

 

Interesting that CMU Campus is currently #124;  Nimman is #91; and, Thapae at #84.

 

I'd expect Nimman , and Thapae, to be higher, but given exact sensor  locations are not published, and the fact today/now is a Sunday/AM ... can we hypothesize ?.

 

~o:37;

This research might explain why some areas that have more trees have higher reading, Here is an excerpt:

 

Quote

 

But oxygen is far from the only gas that trees and certain other green plants release into the air. One of these chemicals is a hydrocarbon known as isoprene (EYE-so-preen). It can react with combustion pollutants, such as nitrogen oxides. The result is the formation of ozone. A component of smog, ozone can irritate the lungs and aggravate airway diseases, such as asthma.

 

Cars and trucks are major sources of nitrogen oxides. And these oxides don’t interact only with isoprene. They also react with certain scented compounds that trees can spew. Among these are monoterpenes (MON-oh-tur-peens) and sesquiterpenes (SES-kwih-tur-peens). These terpene reactions can help create lots of other very tiny airborne pollutants.

 

Galina Churkina works in Germany at Humboldt University of Berlin. She and her team wanted to probe how much the chemicals released by trees could affect city air.

 

 

https://www.sciencenewsforstudents.org/article/trees-can-make-summer-ozone-levels-much-worse

[LolaS]

9 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

I have some questions:

 

Various entities are reporting air quality at different locations in Chiang Mai Province but there's only a limited number of sensors, I believe that CMU has a network of fourteen sensors and the PCD has a network of five sensors, four fixed and one mobile, is that still correct?

 

Pollution levels for locations that don't have sensors create readings for them based on models, that is certainly true for IQAir's infamous pollution by location app, is that correct for the remainder of location reports?

 

It used to be that PCD could not directly measure PM2.5 because they didn't have the technology in place, regardless, PM2.5 can be extrapolated from PM10 readings Does CMU or PCD now have the capability to measure PM2.5 directly?

 

Thanks 

 

you can request to put on in your location I think it is for free, but you need to supply electric power and WIFI

[simoh1490]

Just now, LolaS said:

you can request to put on in your location I think it is for free, but you need to supply electric power and WIFI

Thanks Lola but that's not what I'm looking for, I'm trying instead to understand who has what active pollution monitoring technology where and what is the source of the myriad of pollution reports. For example, IQAir has a pollution app. which models data from some source, I believe the source is likely to be the PCD monitoring stations but I'd like to confirm that. I'm also keen to understand who is actively monitoring PM2.5 values rather than extrapolating them from PM10 values, if anyone knows the answers to these things, I'll be grateful.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

10 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

I have some questions:

 

Various entities are reporting air quality at different locations in Chiang Mai Province but there's only a limited number of sensors, I believe that CMU has a network of fourteen sensors and the PCD has a network of five sensors, four fixed and one mobile, is that still correct?

 

Pollution levels for locations that don't have sensors create readings for them based on models, that is certainly true for IQAir's infamous pollution by location app, is that correct for the remainder of location reports?

 

It used to be that PCD could not directly measure PM2.5 because they didn't have the technology in place, regardless, PM2.5 can be extrapolated from PM10 readings Does CMU or PCD now have the capability to measure PM2.5 directly?

 

 

The PCD currently has two fixed-location sensors in the Chiang Mai area, and both now have a PM2.5 capability.  The downtown one (in the old city) is the station with the longest PM2.5 recording history, going back to 2012.

 

For the Chiang Mai area there are so many sensors now (between the PCD, CMU CDCC and AirVisual / Chiangmaiair.org), all with direct PM2.5 reading that there is no need for extrapolation models or converting PM10 values.  One site that seems to do conversion and regional analysis is http://berkeleyearth.org/air-pollution-overview/   It's still interesting for a regional overview, but not really for daily life decisions like 'is this a good time to go for a walk.'

 

 

 

 

[EnlightenedAtheist]

2 hours ago, bubba said:

But the air quality measurements at AQITH are based on particulate matter (PM 2.5). Ozone and the plant produced chemicals such as terpenes are not particulates.

 

My completely uninformed and unscientific opinion regarding why the particulate measurements are higher at the more rural monitoring stations as compared to the more urban stations is perhaps due to a combination of:

 

- More exposed land and hence more dust becoming airborne.

 

- More burning with resultant particulate emissions.

 

 

Mmm! Interesting point!

 

I have not a chance to read carefully the fine (pm 2.5 or pm 10) details on the AQI site! I had other more important matters to attend lately.

"

Quote

 

What is the AQI?

 

The AQI is an index for reporting daily air quality. It tells you how clean or unhealthy your air is, and what associated health effects might be a concern. The AQI focuses on health effects you may experience within a few hours or days after breathing unhealthy air. The AQI is calculated for four major air pollutants regulated by the Clean Air Act: ground level ozone, particle pollution, carbon monoxide, and sulfur dioxide. For each of these pollutants, EPA has established national air quality standards to protect public health. EPA is currently reviewing the national air quality standard for nitrogen dioxide. If the standard is revised, the AQI will be revised as well.

 

 

They also state:

 

Quote

"When the AQI is above 100, agencies must also report which groups, such as children or people with asthma or heart disease, may be sensitive to that pollutant. If two or more pollutants have AQI values above 100 on a given day, agencies must report all the groups that are sensitive to those pollutants. For example, if a community’s AQI is 130 for ozone and 101 for particle pollution, the AQI value for that day would be announced as 130 for ozone. 

 

It seems that those two statements do not jive though. But, you are correct in that they do not seem (from my reading on the site) include all values in their AQI pm 2.5 count if there are other AQI values of other elements that are lower.

 

Yet, I read this: "The composition of particulate matter that generally causes visual effects such as smog consists of sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides, carbon monoxide, mineral dust, organic matter, and elemental carbon also known as black carbon or soot." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particulates#Sources_of_atmospheric_particulate_matter)

 

You say that "terpene" is not a particulate matter, but  "sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides, carbon monoxide" are!  I read that ozone is O3, a gas and it is definitely a chemical too. "terpenes" is definitely a chemical as well.

 

It seems though that AQI is not taking into account the additive effects that all of those chemicals would have. We do not have a count on terpenes as well.

 

On the other hand, it is true that those other chemicals (the O3, NO3 and SO2) are usually --on their own-- not a concern in CM.

 

So, it seems that the other lower values do not affect the AQi final count in CM. I would have thought that they would matter. 

 

I wonder if there is a cumulative effect of absorption of those lower levels on the human body and I wonder if children are not more affected that humans (maybe the lower values in green related to use for those other chemicals) affect children more.

 

I also wonder if those other chemicals (like burned pesticide chemicals) are benign and okay for the human lungs, blood systems, including the brain. I read that the smaller they are the more toxic they are.

 

 

[LolaS]

3 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Thanks Lola but that's not what I'm looking for, I'm trying instead to understand who has what active pollution monitoring technology where and what is the source of the myriad of pollution reports. For example, IQAir has a pollution app. which models data from some source, I believe the source is likely to be the PCD monitoring stations but I'd like to confirm that. I'm also keen to understand who is actively monitoring PM2.5 values rather than extrapolating them from PM10 values, if anyone knows the answers to these things, I'll be grateful.

what is a source, I assume you mean the sensor type? apart for PCD that is used only for research now, and thaiaaqi use http://kaiterra.com

[simoh1490]

12 hours ago, WinnieTheKhwai said:

 

 

The PCD currently has two fixed-location sensors in the Chiang Mai area, and both now have a PM2.5 capability.  The downtown one (in the old city) is the station with the longest PM2.5 recording history, going back to 2012.

 

For the Chiang Mai area there are so many sensors now (between the PCD, CMU CDCC and AirVisual / Chiangmaiair.org), all with direct PM2.5 reading that there is no need for extrapolation models or converting PM10 values.  One site that seems to do conversion and regional analysis is http://berkeleyearth.org/air-pollution-overview/   It's still interesting for a regional overview, but not really for daily life decisions like 'is this a good time to go for a walk.'

 

 

 

 

3

In post number 204, LolaS writes that PCD sensors are only for research now. Meanwhile, Airvisual (thaiaaqi use http://kaiterra.com) is owned by IQAir, the Swiss manufacturers of IQAir air purifiers. 

 

Berkleyheath has three measurement sensors in Chiang Mai, as a said, CMU has thirteen, I couldn't find any sensor data (or anything useful) on CDCC.

 

Where I'm trying to get to with these questions is to satisfy myself that air pollution reports are being compiled in a reasonably unbiased manner, using hard data (rather than modelled data) and from a range of sources capable of painting a fairly accurate and reliable picture sources - I'm not there yet on this point, unless I'm missing something only CMU has that capability and even then, only for the greater Chiang Mai area but they aren't using that capability generally..

 

There does seem to be an over-reliance on IQAir reporting and I wonder how sensible it is to believe it all given that it is modelled data and that it comes from a company that sells air purifiers! 

 

I'm happy to believe I may be missing something here and if somebody can point out what that is, I'll be very pleased and I can move on. I for example do not live in greater Chiang Mai, who is measuring the air around me and how are they do that, using which sensors, and that question goes for anyone in any location other than greater Chiang Mai?

[simoh1490]

I've been trying to gather data to prove that pollution levels under an inversion layer increase as the tempreture increases, it's a meteorological fact that it does so but trying to find data to support it is not simple or easy. But what I have come across is a link to a site that shows pollution levels are actually decreasing although as with all these reports it's unclear where the source data come from. I'll throw it out here anyway just for interest sake: http://ourchiangmai.com/2017/05/02/chiang-mai-smog-declines-2017/

[LolaS]

6 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

In post number 204, LolaS writes that PCD sensors are only for research now. Meanwhile, Airvisual (thaiaaqi use http://kaiterra.com) is owned by IQAir, the Swiss manufacturers of IQAir air purifiers. 

 

Berkleyheath has three measurement sensors in Chiang Mai, as a said, CMU has thirteen, I couldn't find any sensor data (or anything useful) on CDCC.

 

Where I'm trying to get to with these questions is to satisfy myself that air pollution reports are being compiled in a reasonably unbiased manner, using hard data (rather than modelled data) and from a range of sources capable of painting a fairly accurate and reliable picture sources - I'm not there yet on this point, unless I'm missing something only CMU has that capability and even then, only for the greater Chiang Mai area but they aren't using that capability generally..

 

There does seem to be an over-reliance on IQAir reporting and I wonder how sensible it is to believe it all given that it is modelled data and that it comes from a company that sells air purifiers! 

 

I'm happy to believe I may be missing something here and if somebody can point out what that is, I'll be very pleased and I can move on. I for example do not live in greater Chiang Mai, who is measuring the air around me and how are they do that, using which sensors, and that question goes for anyone in any location other than greater Chiang Mai?

PM2.5 can only be directly measured by DMA aka Differential Mobility Particle Sizer

[bubba]

47 minutes ago, LolaS said:

PM2.5 can only be directly measured by DMA aka Differential Mobility Particle Sizer

Particulates in ambient air, including PM 10 and PM 2.5 can also be sampled and analysed using high or low volume air samplers fitted with selective size inlets, fractionators and tared filter media. This is a primary measurement of particulate and is the required regulatory method in many countries, but of course is a more time consuming one that yields time weighted averages and not real time measurements such as using a particle sizer as you have referenced. This 

[metisdead]

On 4/11/2018 at 5:17 AM, metisdead said:

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.  This topic is not a study about biomass fuels, this topic is about fire & smoke conditions in Chiang Mai.

 

 

 

Some more off topic posts have been removed.  This topic is not a study about atmospheric particulate matters, perhaps that discussion can continue here:

 

 

[LolaS]

8 hours ago, bubba said:

Particulates in ambient air, including PM 10 and PM 2.5 can also be sampled and analysed using high or low volume air samplers fitted with selective size inlets, fractionators and tared filter media. This is a primary measurement of particulate and is the required regulatory method in many countries, but of course is a more time consuming one that yields time weighted averages and not real time measurements such as using a particle sizer as you have referenced. This 

nobody is doing that!!!! that method u describe is time consuming <nd expensive

[bubba]

Understood, Lola –  as I mentioned in my reply, it is indeed time consuming but I was just adding to your comment which said:

 

PM2.5 can only be directly measured by DMA aka Differential Mobility Particle Sizer

 

Actually, that is not the only way to directly measure PM 2.5. The method I described is being used extensively. Since it is gravimetric, it is considered a primary standard with less bias that a particle sizer.  This is a standard method that is specified by regulatory act in many countries for ambient air monitoring which is required under those acts, such as fence line monitoring as part of permitting requirements, and also for industrial hygiene compliance monitoring. Data from real-time particle sizing instruments are not always comparable to the primary standard gravimetric methods.

 

Sorry metisded...yeah... the discussion of particulate monitoring methods is getting OT, but this kind of stuff is sort of what I do. 

[WinnieTheKhwai]

On 4/28/2018 at 6:12 AM, simoh1490 said:

In post number 204, LolaS writes that PCD sensors are only for research now. Meanwhile, Airvisual (thaiaaqi use http://kaiterra.com) is owned by IQAir, the Swiss manufacturers of IQAir air purifiers. 

 

There does seem to be an over-reliance on IQAir reporting and I wonder how sensible it is to believe it all given that it is modelled data and that it comes from a company that sells air purifiers! 

 

I'm happy to believe I may be missing something here and if somebody can point out what that is, I'll be very pleased and I can move on. I for example do not live in greater Chiang Mai, who is measuring the air around me and how are they do that, using which sensors, and that question goes for anyone in any location other than greater Chiang Mai?

 

It's definitely not only for research because the PCD and related outlets issue daily warnings and advisories based on the PCD readings. Plus it's made available publicly for anyone to use for any purpose, including the aqicn.org site uses PCD data (among other sources) 

 

If you do not live in greater Chiang Mai then you can buy a particle counter, either teh IQAir/AirVisual one or otherwise.  Although -local sources aside- the value will be in between any of the nearby sensors: if it's a bad day in Chiang Mai it will also be a bad day in Samoeng, Pai, Lampang, etc.  It's very widespread. 

 

On 4/28/2018 at 7:33 AM, simoh1490 said:

I've been trying to gather data to prove that pollution levels under an inversion layer increase as the tempreture increases, it's a meteorological fact that it does so but trying to find data to support it is not simple or easy. But what I have come across is a link to a site that shows pollution levels are actually decreasing although as with all these reports it's unclear where the source data come from. I'll throw it out here anyway just for interest sake: http://ourchiangmai.com/2017/05/02/chiang-mai-smog-declines-2017/

 

I'm seeing that too: higher temperatures improve things temporarily.  Possibly because hot air rises and that takes particles with it?  Perhaps humidity in the air is also related.

 

14 hours ago, metisdead said:

Some more off topic posts have been removed.  This topic is not a study about atmospheric particulate matters

 

It isn't?   :0   

 

Might as well close the topic then and we'll find a FB group somewhere to discuss.