Smoke, Smog, Dust 2018 Chiang Mai

[simoh1490]

3 minutes ago, WinnieTheKhwai said:

 

It's definitely not only for research because the PCD and related outlets issue daily warnings and advisories based on the PCD readings. Plus it's made available publicly for anyone to use for any purpose, including the aqicn.org site uses PCD data (among other sources) 

 

If you do not live in greater Chiang Mai then you can buy a particle counter, either teh IQAir/AirVisual one or otherwise.  Although -local sources aside- the value will be in between any of the nearby sensors: if it's a bad day in Chiang Mai it will also be a bad day in Samoeng, Pai, Lampang, etc.  It's very widespread. 

 

 

I'm seeing that too: higher temperatures improve things temporarily.  Possibly because hot air rises and that takes particles with it?  Perhaps humidity in the air is also related.

 

 

It isn't?   :0   

 

Might as well close the topic then and we'll find a FB group somewhere to discuss.

OK so it's probably safe to presume the majority of figures we're seeing displayed in various maps and daily reports originate from the PCD.

 

Airvisual is owned by IQair and they sell sensors and air purifiers so I have to wonder about their impartiality, although it looks as though most of their data come from the same PCD sensors that everyone gets their data from, plus they do extensive amounts of modelling for areas that don't have sensors and I don't know how reliable that is - Mae Rim for example is similar to Lamphun where both have micro climates so I don't know that sesnible it is to believe the mid point betweentwo sensors as a reliable reading.

 

And then there's the issue of the effect of the inversion layer for which there are many unanswered questions:   

 

- how far does it typically cover and what is its midpoint, my understanding it's a Chiang Mai City issue rather than anything broader and wider.

 

- hot temperatures cause the inversion layer to exist closer to the ground, the height between ground and ceiling level reduces as the temperature increases. As said earlier, if the level of polluting elements remains constant, the pollution level readings  will increase since the elements are being compressed - does that have an effect on the amount of sunlight reaching the ground?

 

- moisture in the air is a feature of all inversion layers, what role does that play in visual observation and heat penetration?

 

I'm trying to dig into these things to better understand them but it's not simple so if anyone has a firm view on them, it will be useful. I think there's a very clear argument to suggest that the ban on burning has been very effective and that pollution levels are  decreasing year on year, I also think the visual impact of the inversion layer is very misleading for many and that this is not helped by the hype surrounding modelled air quality data that serves primarily a commercial purpose....dunno for sure, yet.

 

[KrishnaCameb4Buddha]

Remember the pictures 'this is your brain'....this is your brain on drugs? well, here is an experiment to show you 'here is your lungs, here is your lungs on Thailand air'. (and it will end up protecting your lungs)

from Lazada (for example) buy the 3m product 3M Filtrete Air Conditioner Filter. Comes on a roll. Measure your AC intake (the one inside your house, on the wall unit). Cut a strip of Filtrete to fit over the rectangular air intake. Duct tape it there. Remove it after a couple weeks. Place it beside a clean strip. Compare. ('here is your lungs, here is your lungs on Thailand air')

The World Health Organization (WHO) 'recent' huge study shows 1 out of every 9 deaths on the planet tied directly to air pollution. PM10 are bad (Particulate Matter size 10 microns--micron: millionth of a meter). PM10's lodge in your lungs. (bad!). PM2.5 are much worse. They don't get stopped in the lungs. They cross the lungs into the blood stream and get deposited in every organ system in your body.

Now look at your filtrete strip after a couple of weeks, and contemplate some of that toxic crap being deposited in your lungs and throughout your body including your heart.

[KrishnaCameb4Buddha]

If anyone knows the specs and mechanism of pollution removal used in the air purifiers sold at, say, Power Buy, I would appreciate hearing about it. Some are made by Panasonic.   I haven't found much on the Internet about them.  These machines aren't cheap and since they seem to use HEPA filters, then I'm wondering how much different they are from just putting a strip of HEPA material over the intake of an air conditioner (3m Filtrete HEPA from a roll you can buy from Lazada). 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

First, you want a unit that has a "true HEPA" filter, meaning it's supposed to catch up to 99.97% of particles down to 0.3 microns in size. There are other so-called HEPA filters, but their capture rates maybe only 90 or 95%, meaning they're letting gunk thru the filter and into your air.

 

Second, HEPA filters are designed with a lot of surface area in the way they are designed, meaning there's a lot of capture area, so they're supposed to last longer, especially if they typically also have a pre-filter that captures the bigger particles and keeps them away from the HEPA filter.

 

The Filtrete sheets added to a regular air con filter work quite well, but they have only a single flat surface and tend to get saturated with gunk pretty quickly, so require frequent changes. That's also because I don't know of any way to use a pre-filter on top of the Filtrete sheets, meaning they absorb everything, thus their shorter life cycle.

 

Third, whatever purifier you're looking at, apart from it having a true HEPA filter with 99.97% efficiency, you'd also better check in advance just what the method is of obtaining replacement HEPA filters for the unit, because they're typically not sold by the retailers. And the supply chain for that here seems to be pretty poor for a lot of the purifier brands. Obviously, it does no good to buy a purifier today that you can't get a replacement HEPA filter for a year from now. They have to be custom made to fit the particular size of the purifier involved. You can't just cut them to fit as you can with the Filtrete sheets.

 

[WinnieTheKhwai]

On 4/29/2018 at 8:57 AM, simoh1490 said:

OK so it's probably safe to presume the majority of figures we're seeing displayed in various maps and daily reports originate from the PCD.

 

Airvisual is owned by IQair and they sell sensors and air purifiers so I have to wonder about their impartiality, although it looks as though most of their data come from the same PCD sensors that everyone gets their data from, plus they do extensive amounts of modelling for areas that don't have sensors and I don't know how reliable that is 

 

The majority is PCD data yes, except for AirVisual who have quite a few of their units in and around town.  They're less accurate than the big PCD stations more more than good enough.   The AirVisual app picks the closest actual sensor, it doesn't do any modelling that I've seen.

 

Quote

And then there's the issue of the effect of the inversion layer for which there are many unanswered questions:   

 

- how far does it typically cover and what is its midpoint, my understanding it's a Chiang Mai City issue rather than anything broader and wider.

 

 

No, it's much broader and wider.  Really not a city issue. In fact the further you go (North and West), the worse it gets.

 

Quote

- hot temperatures cause the inversion layer to exist closer to the ground, the height between ground and ceiling level reduces as the temperature increases. As said earlier, if the level of polluting elements remains constant, the pollution level readings  will increase since the elements are being compressed - does that have an effect on the amount of sunlight reaching the ground?

 

I think there's a very clear argument to suggest that the ban on burning has been very effective and that pollution levels are  decreasing year on year, I also think the visual impact of the inversion layer is very misleading for many and that this is not helped by the hype surrounding modelled air quality data that serves primarily a commercial purpose....dunno for sure, yet.

 

Definitely less sunlight reaches the ground which is particularly noticeable in the morning and late afternoon, when you don't need sunglasses during hazy times. 

 

And we're not seeing pollution levels go up with higher temperatures;  afternoons are often better than mornings when it's cooler.

 

 

[XGM]

Finally in the green?

[Scott]

Off-topic post reported and removed. 

 

Please stay on topic and stop with the bickering.  

[simoh1490]

I don't really know how to proceed on this subject now, some members think there is not an issue associated with sensors, pollution detection and reporting but others do not, I certainly think it needs to be better understood and agreed yet trying to discuss it constitutes bickering and being off topic, perhaps we can get some guidance on this? 

[KrishnaCameb4Buddha]

On 4/29/2018 at 2:24 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

  I don't know of any way to use a pre-filter on top of the Filtrete sheets, meaning they absorb everything, thus their shorter life cycle.

 

 

That would be something worth figuring out.  You're right: the filtrete gets gunked up in a week or so...I hope it still 'works' after a week because I leave them up after I see a bunch of gunk. I only take them down when they get 'really' gunked up.  There are sliding filters 'inside' the AC and maybe the filtrete could be cut to fit each 'slot' filter.  that way the 'slot' filters could catch the bigger stuff first. 

[piewarmer]

mark your calendar for next year, stay away from February till late May.

[LolaS]

May was clear and not poluted

[bkk6060]

1 hour ago, LolaS said:

May was clear and not poluted

I was there all of February it was clear also.

But i am going on what i see not machines.

[orang37]

19 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

But i am going on what i see not machines.

 

Go outside your house, and get an eye exam.

 

~o:37;

[mrmillersr]

20 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

I was there all of February it was clear also.

But i am going on what i see not machines.

Total BS.  The average P.M. 2.5 level in CM  for February was 57 or 5.7 times over what is considered safe.  The only thing that's clear is you don't know what you're talking about.

[bkk6060]

9 minutes ago, mrmillersr said:

Total BS.  The average P.M. 2.5 level in CM  for February was 57 or 5.7 times over what is considered safe.  The only thing that's clear is you don't know what you're talking about.

Like I said, i do not waste my time with machines.

All  good where i was, sorry you were not so fortunate.  Or, get those machines calibrated.

[mrmillersr]

1 minute ago, bkk6060 said:

Like I said, i do not waste my time with machines.

All  good where i was, sorry you were not so fortunate.  Or, get those machines calibrated.

If you live in Chiang Mai the air was not clear in February.  It was highly polluted and dangerous to one's health and that includes you.

[bkk6060]

2 minutes ago, mrmillersr said:

If you live in Chiang Mai the air was not clear in February.  It was highly polluted and dangerous to one's health and that includes you.

Wrong and untrue.

It does not effect everyone the same.

And, did not bother me at all if you believe what you say....

[LolaS]

11 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Like I said, i do not waste my time with machines.

All  good where i was, sorry you were not so fortunate.  Or, get those machines calibrated.

most of them are not accurate o measure directly pollution, good decision, the one use appropriately also show normal values for Feb

[TeresaSy]

Smoke pollutions is really very dangerous to health.

[HaleySabai]

When the surrounding mountains disappear from sight I don't understand how "normal values" could be registered.

May was fine,but Feb was not that great.

[bubba]

Here's a nice summary of the air quality situation, from a talk given at the Informal Northern Thai Group:

 

"Chiang Mai Burning Season: What new data can (and can’t) tell us about the problem”.

[RamenRaven]

What kinds of air purifiers and air conditioners do you guys recommend for getting rid of the noxious Chiang Mai smoke?

 

My house does not have air conditioning at the moment Looking to install something to rid the smoke in my second-story office so that I can function during the afternoons.

[LolaS]

On 9/12/2018 at 9:41 PM, RamenRaven said:

What kinds of air purifiers and air conditioners do you guys recommend for getting rid of the noxious Chiang Mai smoke?

 

My house does not have air conditioning at the moment Looking to install something to rid the smoke in my second-story office so that I can function during the afternoons.

where did you find smoke in this time of year?

[Lacessit]

On 9/12/2018 at 9:41 PM, RamenRaven said:

What kinds of air purifiers and air conditioners do you guys recommend for getting rid of the noxious Chiang Mai smoke?

 

My house does not have air conditioning at the moment Looking to install something to rid the smoke in my second-story office so that I can function during the afternoons.

You can buy Sharp air purifiers ranging in price from 8000 to 15000 baht at HomePro or PowerBuy. They usually have a filter and sticky mosquito plate, plus what's called an ion shower.

Mine seems to work OK, although the effect may be more psychological than actual.

[RamenRaven]

On 9/17/2018 at 8:46 AM, LolaS said:

where did you find smoke in this time of year?

All over the southern outskirts of Chiang Mai, like Saraphi and southern Hang Dong. This is local burning that makes local air quality readings shoot up above 1,000, rather than more widespread smoke that covers the entire valley and results in air quality readings of only about 100-150.

 

The burning should stop in a few weeks after the longan harvests are over.

[canopy]

I didn't know harvesting fruit from trees triggered burning. What exactly is being burned?

 

[ZeVonderBearz]

On 9/17/2018 at 8:46 AM, LolaS said:

where did you find smoke in this time of year?

Do you work for the government? I only ever see you comment on this thread and you always deny the fact that the air quality in CM is poor. Even these past few days there's a haze when you look out at the mountains. It's going to be a long, dry and smokey this year if it really has started already. 

[Samuel Smith]

On 9/21/2018 at 7:32 AM, canopy said:

I didn't know harvesting fruit from trees triggered burning. What exactly is being burned?

 

They cut the trees back after harvesting.  Plenty to burn.  As different fruit ripen throughout the year, there is always plenty to burn, pretty much all year.  Obviously, we don't get the cr@ppy smog all year, but if you climb to a high point overlooking Chiang Mai, there is always a smoke haze visible, unless there's been a lot of rain.  Car fumes 24/7 365 days a year too.

[LolaS]

On 9/21/2018 at 1:30 AM, RamenRaven said:

All over the southern outskirts of Chiang Mai, like Saraphi and southern Hang Dong. This is local burning that makes local air quality readings shoot up above 1,000, rather than more widespread smoke that covers the entire valley and results in air quality readings of only about 100-150.

 

The burning should stop in a few weeks after the longan harvests are over.

I live there, no where to be seen or felt smoke or air polluion

[LolaS]

On 9/25/2018 at 8:55 AM, ZeVonderBearz said:

Do you work for the government? I only ever see you comment on this thread and you always deny the fact that the air quality in CM is poor. Even these past few days there's a haze when you look out at the mountains. It's going to be a long, dry and smokey this year if it really has started already. 

do you have any foto to prove this? or are you telling me I am making things up?