mogandave Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 6 minutes ago, Airbagwill said: I can't believe that your comment isn't deliberately obtuse...however if you really don't understand it isn't worth discussing on such a basic level ....... otherwise find someone else to play pigeon chess with. Your claim that they are not culled/killed is just a lie. Their are only small numbers in urban areas, but because they round them up kill-err-cull-err-euthanize them Pigeon chess or otherwise you can make a strong argument that killing them is what best for the community, but pretending it's something other than what is, is ridiculous. I'm for killing all the pigeons as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairynuff Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 2 hours ago, Airbagwill said: s supporting a massive population of dogs most of which are deceased If they’re already dead they don’t need support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairynuff Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 2 hours ago, Airbagwill said: What about the other 300,000 running around in Bkk alone? What about them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 On 2/17/2018 at 3:27 PM, dick dasterdly said: Soi dogs are generally (in my experience) very ingratiating - in the hope of food. 'Owned' dogs are more likely to cause minor problems (chasing 'bikes etc.) - again in my experience. But then again, the aggressive 'farangs' are likely to attract a similar result from any species! On 2/17/2018 at 3:45 PM, vogie said: As I said before Dick I am a dog owner and I like (emphasis on the like) dogs. That being said, dogs that are well controlled by responible dog owners. These soi dogs do not fall into that catagory, its a shame they have been dumped and do cause problems for other people, and you as an intelligent person should know dogs do not belong on the street. They are a problem, I have had to move house to get away from them barking all night, I have been chased by these damned mangy mutts when on my motorbike or bicycle. I find nothing more endearing than walking out of my gate in the morning and seeing a big brown present that has been left for me. So come on Dick you must realise that soi dogs need some sort of control, but it aint gonna happen, we all know that. I agree that there 'should' be an ongoing programme to neuter soi dogs and EDUCATE the population that a dog is 'forever' and needs to be vaccinated/neutered etc. He/she not just a cute puppy that can be dumped as soon as you're bored with it.... It shouldn't be left to the odd charitable organisation to 'do their best' in this respect. Nonetheless, in my experience it is territorial, owned dogs that cause most of the 'problems' - e.g. chasing 'bikes etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 21 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said: I walked through a village at night and luckily the beasts were all locked up, or I'd have been ripped to pieces. Never again. The 'beasts' were doing exactly what their OWNERS wanted them to do - protect their homes from burglars and the like! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 19 hours ago, mogandave said: It’s my understanding Thai people are generally Buddhist and as such make merit feeding them, and are very much against killing them. Everyone knows the only humane thing to do is round them up and kill them like we do in the West. People often confuse 'humane' with 'human'. The 'humane' thing to do is to alleviate their suffering as far as possible - the 'human' thing to do is to kill anything that dares to annoy us.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vogie Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 7 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: People often confuse 'humane' with 'human'. The 'humane' thing to do is to alleviate their suffering as far as possible - the 'human' thing to do is to kill anything that dares to annoy us.... Not long ago we had an American knocked off his bicycle by a pack of these hounds, had he lived I am sure he would have been 'very annoyed' ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vogie Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: I agree that there 'should' be an ongoing programme to neuter soi dogs and EDUCATE the population that a dog is 'forever' and needs to be vaccinated/neutered etc. He/she not just a cute puppy that can be dumped as soon as you're bored with it.... It shouldn't be left to the odd charitable organisation to 'do their best' in this respect. Nonetheless, in my experience it is territorial, owned dogs that cause most of the 'problems' - e.g. chasing 'bikes etc. A must read for all 'dog lovers' https://www.thethailandlife.com/soi-dogs-bangkok Edited February 19, 2018 by vogie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 20 hours ago, sandyf said: Quite. Every evening my sister in law gets on her bike and goes out on the street to feed the local strays. A few weeks back she came back with a puppy she had come across that was almost dead. We usually have about 8 dogs and when one dies just find another. She also runs a voluntary cat refuge with about forty odd cats at the moment. During my time here, I too have adopted three soi dogs. The first from a rescue shelter, the second I came across obviously very sick (it turned out to be pneumonia), and the third a friend asked me to adopt as she was one of the dogs he fed - and was again obviously not well. So those posters saying that those of us showing compassion for soi dogs should take them home - we do..... During our walks and vet visits , I come across MANY people who have adopted soi dogs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 30 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: People often confuse 'humane' with 'human'. The 'humane' thing to do is to alleviate their suffering as far as possible - the 'human' thing to do is to kill anything that dares to annoy us.... 20 minutes ago, vogie said: Not long ago we had an American knocked off his bicycle by a pack of these hounds, had he lived I am sure he would have been 'very annoyed' ? A link would be vaguely interesting - as experience tells me soi dogs are ingratiating to get food, whilst owned dogs chase 'bikes and exhibit far more territorial behaviour. But it's less interesting than the obvious intent of your post - to distract attention from the difference between 'humane' and 'human'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jak2002003 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 3 hours ago, johng said: That doesn't solve much....not the biting and chasing, the accidents, the noise , the poop and disease. In the long run it would solve the problem. Because the dogs would no longer breed and produce the next increasing numbers generations. They would eventually die out after a few years. Everyone would be happy, because most of the dogs .. chasing, accidents, noise, poop and diseases would be gone, and no one had to kill or harm the dogs to solve the problem.. so the dog feeders and lovers would also be happy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vogie Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 37 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: A link would be vaguely interesting - as experience tells me soi dogs are ingratiating to get food, whilst owned dogs chase 'bikes and exhibit far more territorial behaviour. But it's less interesting than the obvious intent of your post - to distract attention from the difference between 'humane' and 'human'... Can't find the link to the american, but here's one just showing how ingratiating soi dogs can be. Please don't tell me that soi dogs are not a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mogandave Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Can't find the link...How convenient... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) 24 minutes ago, vogie said: Can't find the link to the american, but here's one just showing how ingratiating soi dogs can be. Please don't tell me that soi dogs are not a problem. Typed a longish post and then lost it - so this is the far shorter version. Looks like a planned event with healthy attacking dogs, but irrelevant. 99% of the time its owned dogs that are territorial, chase 'bikes etc. - as soi dogs need to be ingratiating to get food. There's a HUGE difference between 'humane' and 'human' . Edited February 19, 2018 by dick dasterdly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildewillie89 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) 33 minutes ago, vogie said: Can't find the link to the american, but here's one just showing how ingratiating soi dogs can be. Please don't tell me that soi dogs are not a problem. Where is the supervision of the child? It is why experts back home tell us to firstly educate children how to interact with dogs (don't eye gauge, throw sand in face, stare, pull tails etc). and equally as important, supervise your children around ALL dogs at ALL times (regardless if soi or well trained). Aren't the majority of dog attacks in the West on children also for these very reasons. Edited February 19, 2018 by wildewillie89 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jak2002003 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 17 minutes ago, wildewillie89 said: Where is the supervision of the child? It is why experts back home tell us to firstly educate children how to interact with dogs OH my goodness.... are you actually defending the dogs and blaming the child?! It should be safe enough to let a child play out on the street in a quiet gated moo baan with no through traffic. Sorry, but children can not be adult supervised 100 percent of the time 24 / 7. Dogs would just as likely bit the child even if an adult was there. You can see there are adult about anyway.. who quickly come to the rescue. I have a dog myself.. I was walking her down the road when 3 dogs surrounded up and attacked her.. I was lucky to be able to get the dogs off my dog when some people came to help. And YES these were STREET DOGS and did not have owners. Of course a street dog is going to be territorial... that is a dogs nature. It will defend its area.. so a part of a street, outside a shop, or a place where it rests or gets food. It will also attack other strange dogs / new dogs that venture into its territory. In fact street dogs would be more dangerous.. as they form packs and will attack on mass. An owned dog is usually a single dog or a couple... not 10 plus animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamesgplayemail Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 7 minutes ago, jak2002003 said: OH my goodness.... are you actually defending the dogs and blaming the child?! It should be safe enough to let a child play out on the street in a quiet gated moo baan with no through traffic. Sorry, but children can not be adult supervised 100 percent of the time 24 / 7. Dogs would just as likely bit the child even if an adult was there. You can see there are adult about anyway.. who quickly come to the rescue. I have a dog myself.. I was walking her down the road when 3 dogs surrounded up and attacked her.. I was lucky to be able to get the dogs off my dog when some people came to help. And YES these were STREET DOGS and did not have owners. Of course a street dog is going to be territorial... that is a dogs nature. It will defend its area.. so a part of a street, outside a shop, or a place where it rests or gets food. It will also attack other strange dogs / new dogs that venture into its territory. In fact street dogs would be more dangerous.. as they form packs and will attack on mass. An owned dog is usually a single dog or a couple... not 10 plus animals. I do too. People not able to educate their kids should not have. Unfortunately having kids is what most uneducated and poor people do because they think that they can. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildewillie89 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Just now, jak2002003 said: OH my goodness.... are you actually defending the dogs and blaming the child?! It should be safe enough to let a child play out on the street in a quiet gated moo baan with no through traffic. Sorry, but children can not be adult supervised 100 percent of the time 24 / 7. Dogs would just as likely bit the child even if an adult was there. You can see there are adult about anyway.. who quickly come to the rescue. I have a dog myself.. I was walking her down the road when 3 dogs surrounded up and attacked her.. I was lucky to be able to get the dogs off my dog when some people came to help. And YES these were STREET DOGS and did not have owners. Of course a street dog is going to be territorial... that is a dogs nature. It will defend its area.. so a part of a street, outside a shop, or a place where it rests or gets food. It will also attack other strange dogs / new dogs that venture into its territory. In fact street dogs would be more dangerous.. as they form packs and will attack on mass. An owned dog is usually a single dog or a couple... not 10 plus animals. Did I blame the child? Don't get overly dramatic. I think it was pretty clear that the point was there are reasons why dogs attack children more than adults. For example, past bad experiences with other children that are taken out on new children. And if adults aren't there to prevent it from happening then really there are bigger problems going on. It is exactly the same everywhere in the world. Supervise ALL young children around ALL dogs. There are numerous reasons why this should occur. It is meant to be safe back home as well, but it isn't and the point remains, closely supervise children around dogs. No through traffic? If the dogs weren't going to get the poor kid, the motorbike in the video and most likely the other vehicles would have. Supervision! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vogie Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 30 minutes ago, wildewillie89 said: Where is the supervision of the child? It is why experts back home tell us to firstly educate children how to interact with dogs (don't eye gauge, throw sand in face, stare, pull tails etc). and equally as important, supervise your children around ALL dogs at ALL times (regardless if soi or well trained). Aren't the majority of dog attacks in the West on children also for these very reasons. When people show no compassion for a vunerable child instead try to defend the dogs actions by blaming the childs parents for not not being in a supervisory role, I suggest your thought process is seriously flawed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildewillie89 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Just now, vogie said: When people show no compassion for a vunerable child instead try to defend the dogs actions by blaming the childs parents for not not being in a supervisory role, I suggest your thought process is seriously flawed. How am I defending the dogs? I am saying ALL children need constant supervision around ALL dogs, that would be the opposite of defending dogs. The point remains, as the experts say back home, there are various reasons why dogs are more likely to attack children. So supervision is needed. If that is the norm in countries where dogs are fenced and well trained, then it should also be the norm in countries where dogs are not fenced and not well trained. If the argument is that children should be allowed to roam the streets/yards without supervision, then that would mean no dogs should be allowed in any country. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvaviator Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Dog shit differs from cow shit and buffalo shit?Hmm I think it does :-) ... one is grass based the other is or can be meat based ...Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vogie Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, wildewillie89 said: How am I defending the dogs? I am saying ALL children need constant supervision around ALL dogs, that would be the opposite of defending dogs. The point remains, as the experts say back home, there are various reasons why dogs are more likely to attack children. So supervision is needed. If that is the norm in countries where dogs are fenced and well trained, then it should also be the norm in countries where dogs are not fenced and not well trained. If the argument is that children should be allowed to roam the streets/yards without supervision, then that would mean no dogs should be allowed in any country. Do these dogs just attack children. Don't you honestly think that it's the dogs that need supervision. Don't you think people whether a child or an adult should be able to go about their business without worrying about these creatures. Dogs in packs revert to their natural instincs. BTW these are rhetorical questions, I really don't want to listen to excuses. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 23 hours ago, jak2002003 said: Don't bother moving because of barking. We have moved house a lot here over the years... 5 times, to different areas. And in all places there were barking dogs.. and loud music and base from early morning till midnight lol. Thai people love parties and music while they are working too. This year I have to cycle home some evenings through one area that lots of dogs live in . I call it sleepy hollow as its so creepy - lots of huge trees and the road goes down into a valley with a few very old wooden houses, even has the creepy mist in the wet season)... Anyway, as I go past there can be up to 17 dogs chasing me in a pack! More and more come out as I go down that road. Even one time had a herd of buffalo blocking my way in the darkness.. they look scary at night with their eyes reflecting the lights from the bike and their horns. Eventually one dog bit me quite badly and I had to go to the hospital to get the anti rabies shots. After that time I had had enough. So next time I took a long, but lightweight, bamboo stick with me. When I went through the area I slowed down to let the 2 most aggressive dogs get near me.. their teeth on my ankles... then I swatted them over the head with the stick.. and got both at the same time over their noses. I did it again the next time too. After that all the dogs left me alone. I did not need the stick. All I did was slow down and raise my arm in the air and they would back off and even stop barking. They have not given me any more problems since. They have a good memory. Yeah, the nose is the place to get them. To hit the body hard enough to hurt them would require more than a stick, or bit of plastic pipe. None of the dogs that threatened me ever came close enough to bite me as ran soon as they saw my pipe. Last dog that tried it was when I was just walking along the street in Chiang Mai, and it came out of a shop. I was able to find a bit of concrete that I would have hit its nose with, and it stayed just out of reach snarling at me. It's owner came out of the shop and made it go away, so never came to actual attack. If carrying a backpack, take it off and use as a blocking shield to stop it biting while hitting on the nose. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildewillie89 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 6 minutes ago, vogie said: Do these dogs just attack children. Don't you honestly think that it's the dogs that need supervision. Don't you think people whether a child or an adult should be able to go about their business without worrying about these creatures. Dogs in packs revert to their natural instincs. BTW these are rhetorical questions, I really don't want to listen to excuses. Both need supervision. Is the argument to lock up dogs and lets kids roam the streets on the most dangerous roads in the world? Both animal and child require supervision. You are not going to tell me Thai kids have been educated on road safety too are you? Why do you 'honestly' believe young children do not require supervision? Can also be rhetorical :) However, seeing as that is not the current environment in Thailand as dogs and children are allowed to roam then at least any supervision is required. I would say due to other variables in the community and the fact parents should be with children anyway that supervision of their child may be easier for them than the dog they don't really care about. We can all dream about a perfect world, but that is a long way off in Thailand, so you put in steps to prevent these things from happening. I have now installed 3 fences in different areas within my border to make sure even if there is a slight chance I am unable to 100% supervise my children, I know they will be safe (and that is with the two family dogs who have been raised/socialised with the kids and have a reputation for being incredibly gentle with their own). If people want to take unnecessary risks with their kids, that is their choice. But don't play the blaming the child card for emotive responses. You put your child in a dangerous situation, then expect a dangerous outcome. The same thing happens in an off leash dog park in the West when parents don't properly supervise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 22 minutes ago, vogie said: When people show no compassion for a vunerable child instead try to defend the dogs actions by blaming the childs parents for not not being in a supervisory role, I suggest your thought process is seriously flawed. And that is where we differ. I have compassion for children/adults attacked (by 99% of the time, owned dogs....), but more compassion for the innocent soi dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 41 minutes ago, jak2002003 said: OH my goodness.... are you actually defending the dogs and blaming the child?! It should be safe enough to let a child play out on the street in a quiet gated moo baan with no through traffic. Sorry, but children can not be adult supervised 100 percent of the time 24 / 7. Dogs would just as likely bit the child even if an adult was there. You can see there are adult about anyway.. who quickly come to the rescue. I have a dog myself.. I was walking her down the road when 3 dogs surrounded up and attacked her.. I was lucky to be able to get the dogs off my dog when some people came to help. And YES these were STREET DOGS and did not have owners. Of course a street dog is going to be territorial... that is a dogs nature. It will defend its area.. so a part of a street, outside a shop, or a place where it rests or gets food. It will also attack other strange dogs / new dogs that venture into its territory. In fact street dogs would be more dangerous.. as they form packs and will attack on mass. An owned dog is usually a single dog or a couple... not 10 plus animals. I disagree as I've been through a few 'dog nipping'/chasing situations - and they were all owned dogs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airbagwill Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said: During my time here, I too have adopted three soi dogs. The first from a rescue shelter, the second I came across obviously very sick (it turned out to be pneumonia), and the third a friend asked me to adopt as she was one of the dogs he fed - and was again obviously not well. So those posters saying that those of us showing compassion for soi dogs should take them home - we do..... During our walks and vet visits , I come across MANY people who have adopted soi dogs. 300,000 people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mogandave Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) In the video it looked like at least one women ran out and grabbed up one of the dogs and carried it away. Doubt very much it was a soi dog. If a dog attacked my child unprovoked, I would kill it. Edited February 19, 2018 by mogandave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airbagwill Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said: I disagree as I've been through a few 'dog nipping'/chasing situations - and they were all owned dogs.... I have only been bitten once and that was a dog owned, but clearly not trained by a policeman. However personal experience is just one in 70,000,000, so hardly representative. It is a well documented behaviour that once above a certain number and out of the heat of the day dogs form packs and this brings about quite dramatic and discernable changes in behaviour. Dogs that just lay in the shade all day become aggressive and potentially dangerous once pack behaviour cuts in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jak2002003 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 8 minutes ago, mogandave said: In the video it looked like at least one women ran out and grabbed up one of the dogs and carried it away. Doubt very much it was a soi dog. If a dog attacked my child unprovoked, I would kill it. And then you would be in Thai Prison or paying hefty fine and apologising to society here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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