dick dasterdly Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 50 minutes ago, jak2002003 said: OH my goodness.... are you actually defending the dogs and blaming the child?! It should be safe enough to let a child play out on the street in a quiet gated moo baan with no through traffic. Sorry, but children can not be adult supervised 100 percent of the time 24 / 7. Dogs would just as likely bit the child even if an adult was there. You can see there are adult about anyway.. who quickly come to the rescue. I have a dog myself.. I was walking her down the road when 3 dogs surrounded up and attacked her.. I was lucky to be able to get the dogs off my dog when some people came to help. And YES these were STREET DOGS and did not have owners. Of course a street dog is going to be territorial... that is a dogs nature. It will defend its area.. so a part of a street, outside a shop, or a place where it rests or gets food. It will also attack other strange dogs / new dogs that venture into its territory. In fact street dogs would be more dangerous.. as they form packs and will attack on mass. An owned dog is usually a single dog or a couple... not 10 plus animals. I'm trying hard not to say that I care less about your child, than I care about soi dogs . You can take care of your child, whereas the soi dog relies on volunteers that show compassion towards them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vogie Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 1 hour ago, mogandave said: How convenient... I give most of your posts the contempt they deserve. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vogie Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said: Typed a longish post and then lost it - so this is the far shorter version. Looks like a planned event with healthy attacking dogs, but irrelevant. 99% of the time its owned dogs that are territorial, chase 'bikes etc. - as soi dogs need to be ingratiating to get food. There's a HUGE difference between 'humane' and 'human' . Why was it planned, I don't think the little girl was acting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jak2002003 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 22 minutes ago, wildewillie89 said: Both need supervision. Is the argument to lock up dogs and lets kids roam the streets on the most dangerous roads in the world? Both animal and child require supervision. You are not going to tell me Thai kids have been educated on road safety too are you? Why do you 'honestly' believe young children do not require supervision? Can also be rhetorical :) However, seeing as that is not the current environment in Thailand as dogs and children are allowed to roam then at least any supervision is required. I would say due to other variables in the community and the fact parents should be with children anyway that supervision of their child may be easier for them than the dog they don't really care about. We can all dream about a perfect world, but that is a long way off in Thailand, so you put in steps to prevent these things from happening. I have now installed 3 fences in different areas within my border to make sure even if there is a slight chance I am unable to 100% supervise my children, I know they will be safe (and that is with the two family dogs who have been raised/socialised with the kids and have a reputation for being incredibly gentle with their own). If people want to take unnecessary risks with their kids, that is their choice. But don't play the blaming the child card for emotive responses. You put your child in a dangerous situation, then expect a dangerous outcome. The same thing happens in an off leash dog park in the West when parents don't properly supervise. Sorry, I don't know what you are trying to say really. It's the parents fault that the child got bitten as they were not supervising the kid, or its the kids fault it was bitten because she was ignorant how to treat the dogs? Was the child kicking the dogs, throwing sand at them, pulling their tails? Surely you can see the problem in that situation were the dogs in the street attacking the child? That is why the street dog problem needs solving... so things like this don't happen. When I was a child we were allowed to play out in the street, garden, walk to friends houses and go to the park... with NO adult supervision. We all survived. The fact was there were no street dogs to bite us, as that was not tolerated in the UK. So stopping them here in Thailand would be better, or are you just content to have to guard your children constantly until they are over 18? Oh, and having fences around your property is no guarantee you kids will be safe. Have you not thought about venomous snakes, scorpions, rabid cats, rats, swarms of angry hornets, bacteria in the soil, poisonous plants, etc etc. So if you children got in trouble with any of these things you would accept other people saying it was your fault as you were not supervising you children? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, mogandave said: In the video it looked like at least one women ran out and grabbed up one of the dogs and carried it away. Doubt very much it was a soi dog. If a dog attacked my child unprovoked, I would kill it. I feel the same way about anyone attacking my dogs, whilst also knowing (from experience) that the offenders think it funny/can run faster than me.... It's one of those things we have to somehow 'learn to live with'. The majority of people have no compassion, other than towards their own species . Edited February 19, 2018 by dick dasterdly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mogandave Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 9 minutes ago, jak2002003 said: And then you would be in Thai Prison or paying hefty fine and apologising to society here. Assuming the police came I would just give them money. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jak2002003 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 10 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: I'm trying hard not to say that I care less about your child, than I care about soi dogs . You can take care of your child, whereas the soi dog relies on volunteers that show compassion towards them. You care more for street dogs than children? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jak2002003 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said: It's one of those things we have to somehow 'learn to live with'. The majority of people have no compassion, apart from their own species And you think we have to 'learn to live with' children getting bitten by feral dogs? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, jak2002003 said: You care more for street dogs than children? Yes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dene16 Posted February 19, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2018 1 hour ago, gamesgplayemail said: I do too. People not able to educate their kids should not have. Unfortunately having kids is what most uneducated and poor people do because they think that they can. Words fail me in regards to your ignorance. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 And there we go. A few of us are honest enough to admit that we think dogs are more worthy than people - but of course this view will horrify the majority.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jak2002003 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: Yes. Sorry, but you are either trying to wind people up, or you really have problems. To say you care more for a mangy street dog than a similarly starving and suffering human child is very disturbing and not normal at all. Edited February 19, 2018 by jak2002003 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johng Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 I If a dog attacked my child unprovoked, I would kill it. Hold on you've been advocating feeding and not culling/euthanasia/killing the dogs all through this thread ,now you changed your mind ?Or by "it" did you mean the kid ? [emoji33] Joking of course because most would agree that humans come before dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 12 minutes ago, jak2002003 said: And you think we have to 'learn to live with' children getting bitten by feral dogs? We should have to 'learn with' people killing every 'annoying' species? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jak2002003 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Just now, dick dasterdly said: We should have to 'learn with' people killing every 'annoying' species? No. Where are you getting this from? I never said to kill any 'annoying' animals. I hate animal cruelty. I said to help the street dogs. Sterilise them, treat them for medical problems and re home them and get them all off the street. I don't want children to get attacked and bitten.. or adults. I don't want dogs to die and suffer. I don't want weird freaks going about throwing bags of food down to make the problem worse... just so they can feel good themselves, but are actually hurting the dogs not helping them... and hurting people too through their selfishness. You say you value the life and wellbeing of feral dogs over a human child is disgusting and warped. I take it you never kill any animals are eat any meat if you are so opposed to not hurting or killing animals... if not you are being very hypercritical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mogandave Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, johng said: Hold on you've been advocating feeding and not culling/euthanasia/killing the dogs all through this thread ,now you changed your mind ? Or by "it" did you mean the kid ? Joking of course because most would agree that humans come before dogs. How have I changed my position? You like to play fast and loose with the facts. Just because I have a live and let live attitude, does not mean I advocate feeding strays. Dogs (unprovoked) that attack and bite (not bark and scare) people should be put down. People that own dogs that roam free and bite people should be sued. People that moan on about about barking, being chased on their noisyass bike, stepping in poo and being attacked (but not bitten) should <deleted> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 48 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: And that is where we differ. I have compassion for children/adults attacked (by 99% of the time, owned dogs....), but more compassion for the innocent soi dogs. It's 'one of those' differences in personalty. A friend loved 'photos/caricatures of babies and toddlers, whilst I found them ridiculous. She felt the same way about the animal 'photos/videos that I loved . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airbagwill Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) Stop feeding the dogs - anything else is a waste of time... There is a look of nonsense and ignorance being expressed on this thread. There are a lot of “pie-in-the-sky” schemes suggesting to how to deal with an oversize population of “roaming” dogs that simply ignore the reality altogether Culling - some people don’t even understand what the word means. Culling is to reduce a population by slaughter, selectively if need be. With dogs it doesn’t work. All that happens is the population decreases for a short period and then bounces back - quickly because it has been “cleansed” of all the less healthy animals. One female dog can produce 5000 descendants in 5 years. “humane killing” of animals is a way of dealing with creatures that are too ill to survive on their own due to disablement or disease. This is not a population control system it is a way of reducing suffering in individual cases and can only be applied in small populations. “Collect Neuter Vaccinate and return” - is a useful tool. However it is completely impractical in a dog population the size of Thailand. Firstly it requires funding, then it requires registration of dogs, owners who will take part in the scheme as well as veterinary organisations. It can only slow growth or make a small reduction in population and requires at least 70% spaying of female dogs. Incidentally any neutered dog has to be returned to its original pack/location after neutering as if it isn’t it will be replaced by another fertile dog from outside and the whole exercise is pointless. Spaying only works well in populations with high “ownership” and where those owners are all prepared to have their pets neutered or spayed...... Thailand has no such situation. Food supply: - - this is the ONLY way to reduce the dog population in Thailand... Unlike cats, dogs are dependent on humans to exist......It has been proven that human interference causes overpopulation of dogs. The amount of food available is directly proportional to the amount of dogs in the locale. Without food, water and shelter populations of dogs go extinct. So long as water and shelter are present, the dogs survive because they are fed by humans, find edible wastes or attack flock. Dogs are thus dependent on humans and cannot maintain themselves as cats do. The dog population has to be decreased dramatically - there are thousands of dogs suffering out there. There are humans infected by diseases left by dogs infected by bites from dogs, children are especially at risk as they play in dirt contamination by dogs. They contaminate parks and open spaces and beaches...hookworm (transmitted through the skin - usually bare feet) eye infections, blindness, bacterial infections are all spread by “free roaming” dogs and their excrement. Water supplies are contaminated. Dogs cause traffic accidents...and then there is cost of clearing up after them; feces, rubbish strewn about costs a country big money. They are also disliked by tourists. They create no-go areas and disrupt peoples’ lives and sleep. Once a dog population is reduced to a manageable size then other measures such as mass sterilization can kick in but first the food supply - garbage/good Samaritans etc. has to be addressed. See if you can find a single country with a dog population as large as Thailand’s that has succeeded by any other method. - NOTHING ELSE WILL WORK. PS - here is the WHO take on the situation... The WHO supports the World Organisation for Animal Health (OIE) in their paper on Stray dog population control would beg to differ with your appraisal - in fact they don’t use the word “whacky” anywhere... They define the Carrying capacity of an area as........” the upper limit of the dog population density that could be supported by the habitat based on the availability of resources (food, water, shelter), and human acceptance.” Then continue - “The important factors relevant to the dog carrying capacity of the environment include food, shelter, water and human attitudes and behaviour.” And conclude.....”Steps should be taken to exclude dogs from sources of food (e.g. rubbish dumps and abattoirs, and installing animal-proof rubbish containers). “People don’t intentionally provide food, shelter or other needs of the animals, but the dogs often take advantage of municipal dumps where human garbage provides a food supply and shelter. “dogs were drawn together because of the more concentrated food sources.” - of course in Thailand this is all exacerbated by the mistaken belief in the name of “making merit”, throwing some rice at dogs is a good idea........ as Gandhi said. “ “it is an insult to the starving dog to throw a crumb at him” Edited February 19, 2018 by Airbagwill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 46 minutes ago, Airbagwill said: I have only been bitten once and that was a dog owned, but clearly not trained by a policeman. However personal experience is just one in 70,000,000, so hardly representative. It is a well documented behaviour that once above a certain number and out of the heat of the day dogs form packs and this brings about quite dramatic and discernable changes in behaviour. Dogs that just lay in the shade all day become aggressive and potentially dangerous once pack behaviour cuts in. Christ almighty.... You've been nipped once by an owned dog, but are pontificating against soi dogs??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airbagwill Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said: Christ almighty.... You've been nipped once by an owned dog, but are pontificating against soi dogs??? Yes - that is correct because I understand the situation............I don't let my solitary personal experience get in the way of seeing the big picture. (i also travel exclusively by car - I've even had to rescue someone in my village who was pinned against a wall by a pack of our local soi dogs.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johng Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 How have I changed my position? You like to play fast and loose with the facts. Dogs (unprovoked) that attack and bite (not bark and scare) people should be put down. Ok so it seems we where in agreement all along sorry for my mistake [emoji120] [emoji111] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 1 hour ago, vogie said: Do these dogs just attack children. Don't you honestly think that it's the dogs that need supervision. Don't you think people whether a child or an adult should be able to go about their business without worrying about these creatures. Dogs in packs revert to their natural instincs. BTW these are rhetorical questions, I really don't want to listen to excuses. You're quite right of course. People should feel free to eradicate all other species that annoy them. After all, it proves we're the 'superior species' . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airbagwill Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: You're quite right of course. People should feel free to eradicate all other species that annoy them. After all, it proves we're the 'superior species' . If you talk about species - the dog is a domesticated breed created by selective breeding by man.....because we LIKE them........however if left unattended like cats they pose a threat to other species natural to an area. so from an ecological/species point of view, it isn't a matter of"annoyance" it is a matter of upsetting the eco-system. PS - did you know too that dogs never reach maturity? They are genetically permanently in a state of arrested development and as such can't actually relate to each other or perform correctly as their wild cousins the wolves do.... Edited February 19, 2018 by Airbagwill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 49 minutes ago, jak2002003 said: And you think we have to 'learn to live with' children getting bitten by feral dogs? Your kids, if they are unlucky enough to be bitten, will be bitten by owned dogs.... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vogie Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 16 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: You're quite right of course. People should feel free to eradicate all other species that annoy them. After all, it proves we're the 'superior species' . Your posts on this topic have really become meaningless, how is it possible to have a rational debate with someone that prefers dogs over children. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 44 minutes ago, jak2002003 said: Sorry, but you are either trying to wind people up, or you really have problems. To say you care more for a mangy street dog than a similarly starving and suffering human child is very disturbing and not normal at all. Of course it's not 'normal' as 90% (?) of humanity is convinced that we are superior - and therefore can treat every other species as inferior and undeserving of consideration .... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airbagwill Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) there are only 2 positions on this. DD - believes that the dog population isn't a problem and therefore they should be left in peace. The other side is if you think there is a problem, there is only one solution and that is to restrict the food supply. everything else is irrelevant. DD's position however appears to have some flaws in it as the dog population is unlikely to remain static - as towns in Thailand continue to produce more and more rubbish so the dog population will grow and I'm fairly sure at some point it is going to be of a size that even he can't tolerate it. So I'd say that his stance on the matter is not actually practical or feasible in the long run. Edited February 19, 2018 by Airbagwill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildewillie89 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 21 minutes ago, jak2002003 said: Sorry, I don't know what you are trying to say really. It's the parents fault that the child got bitten as they were not supervising the kid, or its the kids fault it was bitten because she was ignorant how to treat the dogs? Was the child kicking the dogs, throwing sand at them, pulling their tails? Surely you can see the problem in that situation were the dogs in the street attacking the child? That is why the street dog problem needs solving... so things like this don't happen. When I was a child we were allowed to play out in the street, garden, walk to friends houses and go to the park... with NO adult supervision. We all survived. The fact was there were no street dogs to bite us, as that was not tolerated in the UK. So stopping them here in Thailand would be better, or are you just content to have to guard your children constantly until they are over 18? Oh, and having fences around your property is no guarantee you kids will be safe. Have you not thought about venomous snakes, scorpions, rabid cats, rats, swarms of angry hornets, bacteria in the soil, poisonous plants, etc etc. So if you children got in trouble with any of these things you would accept other people saying it was your fault as you were not supervising you children? The issue with the video wasn't about the dog problem. Is was about a lack of supervision. That is, even when the dogs are taken off the streets if the child isn't supervised the same result will occur, as it does in parks, yards, when dogs get loose etc in Western countries. The 'I survived' argument surely isn't relevant when there are still millions of dog bites per year with the measures of taking them off the streets implemented. In the UK alone haven't dog attack figures risen 76% in the last 10 years? And two thirds of fatalities are children? The US is something closer to 5 million per year. In Australia, children are 3 times more likely to need medical attention from dog bites than adults. Dog attack figures have even increased with the Dangerous Dog bans in developed countries (that were forced in due to an ignorant response to the problem of dogs biting rapidly rising). Many people don't survive and many are traumatized.due to their parents taking it easy. I know it is hard for some to accept, but there is a bigger world out there than 'when I was young'. So in the case of the video, regardless of if soi dogs were there or not, the kid was in a dangerous situation as she was on a road and not being supervised (dogs, people, vehicles - did you not see the motorcycle in the video indicating traffic on the most dangerous roads in the world?). Are you saying that I should not bother having fences up around my property? That I should just leave my kids to their own devices around my dogs as nothing is a given in the world and anything can kill them? Isn't that the opposite to your earlier stance of taking the dogs off the streets? That even if the dogs were off the streets the kids then may be attacked by snakes, scorpions, rats, hornets etc as nothing is a given. The point is obviously to minimalise chances of these things happening and play the percentages. As the dogs are a constant in my environment then they need to be looked out for first. In the case of Thailand, as dogs aren't coming off the streets anytime soon due to social, political and religious reasons, the only way to minimalise risk is supervision. Supervision to an age where the kid is physically and emotionally capable of handling situations (which obviously will vary with each child). We need to look at it more logically, there isn't going to be a mass cull or neuter of dogs anytime soon whether it is needed or not. So look at education and putting in practices that have more chance of actually being achieved (supervision of young children). All of my relatives know that if we are at their house their gates must be closed, it didn't take long for them to change their ways with some education. Even my nephew who is in kindergarten now shuts the gate after him when he gets dropped off through routine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzupnow Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 On 2/17/2018 at 12:18 AM, KMartinHandyman said: Dog shit differs from cow shit and buffalo shit? you did not go to school? or U slept everyday? everybody knows that shit from a carnivore or omnivore stinks a lot more than from a herbivore cow and elephant shit u can even make paper from, umbrella and so on 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 6 minutes ago, vogie said: Your posts on this topic have really become meaningless, how is it possible to have a rational debate with someone that prefers dogs over children. It's similar to the brexit remain/leave arguments. The extremes of both sides automatically revert to insults - as they're entirely incapable of understanding the other point of view . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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