Oxfam sex abuse criticism disproportionate, chief executive says

[rooster59]

Oxfam sex abuse criticism disproportionate, chief executive says

By Alistair Smout

 

An Oxfam sign is seen on a kiosk that was used to distribute water in Corail, a camp for displaced people of the 2010 earthquake, on the outskirts of Port-au-Prince, Haiti, February 13, 2018. REUTERS/Andres Martinez Casares

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Oxfam's chief executive said criticism of the charity following a sex abuse scandal had been disproportionate, according to comments published on Saturday.

 

In an interview with British daily the Guardian, Mark Goldring again apologised over allegations of sexual abuse by Oxfam staff in Haiti, which broke last week and have shaken the whole aid sector.

 

"(But) the intensity and ferocity of the attacks makes you wonder, what did we do? We murdered babies in their cots?," he was quoted as saying.

 

"Certainly the scale and intensity of the attacks feels out of proportion to the level of culpability."

 

UK-based Oxfam, one of the world's biggest disaster relief charities, has neither confirmed nor denied the Haiti allegations but has said an internal investigation in 2011 confirmed unspecified sexual misconduct occurred.

 

It has also agreed not to bid for any new state funding until Britain's government is satisfied the charity meets appropriate ethical standards, development minister Penny Mordaunt said on Friday.

 

"Anything we say is being manipulated... We've been savaged," Goldring also told the Guardian, which ran a full-page ad from the charity saying sorry for the "appalling behaviour that happened in our name".

 

The CEO's comments drew rebukes on Twitter, including from former interior minister Jacqui Smith, who posted: "Dear Mark Goldring. You're not the victim here."

 

Haiti's president told Reuters on Friday that sexual misconduct by Oxfam staff was only the tip of an "iceberg" and called for investigations into Medecins Sans Frontieres (Doctors Without Borders) and other aid organisations that came to the country after a devastating earthquake in 2010.

 

Doctors Without Borders said on Wednesday it had dealt with 24 cases of sexual harassment or abuse among its 40,000 staff last year, and dismissed 19 people as a result.

 

Britain has said it will deny cash to aid organisations that fail to come clean on abuse.

 

But Prime Minister Theresa May said it would continue to meet its legal obligation to spend 0.7 percent of economic output on international development.

 

She made the comment in a speech in Munich on Saturday, in which did not directly address the allegations against Oxfam and other charities.

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-02-18

[FreddieRoyle]

 This is quite incredible. These aid agencies have been caught abusing the most vulnerable and desperate members of deprived societies, and rather than make grovelling apologies and try to regain some credibility by supporting full prosecution of the sick abusers, we get them essentially playing the victim card. Criticism is disproportionate. Sick, sick, sick. Not only Oxfam we have the hideous Brendan Cox from Hope not Hate(how incredibly ironic!) and Tariq Ramadam also offering excuses and weaseling around the serious sex crime charges leveled at them.

 This goes beyond a few virtue signalling perverts. Charity may never recover from this - much like the catholic church. Forever ruined by mishandling of sexual abuse of the vulnerable.

[Samui Bodoh]

2 minutes ago, FreddieRoyle said:

 This is quite incredible. These aid agencies have been caught abusing the most vulnerable and desperate members of deprived societies, and rather than make grovelling apologies and try to regain some credibility by supporting full prosecution of the sick abusers, we get them essentially playing the victim card. Criticism is disproportionate. Sick, sick, sick. Not only Oxfam we have the hideous Brendan Cox from Hope not Hate(how incredibly ironic!) and Tariq Ramadam also offering excuses and weaseling around the serious sex crime charges leveled at them.

 This goes beyond a few virtue signalling perverts. Charity may never recover from this - much like the catholic church. Forever ruined by mishandling of sexual abuse of the vulnerable.

Respectfully, you are taking a sledge-hammer to kill a fly. Yes, those people who abused the most vulnerable should have the book thrown at them, but to discredit all of OxFam's (and others) great work is plain wrong.

 

I worked in the non-profit sector for many years and saw firsthand the sheer number of people who worked in shitty situations and among the worst possible conditions to assist those in need. Further, I rarely saw anyone who worked less than a 12 hour day (everyday!) and did so for a salary that is far, far below what the complainers have gotten. There are very few people who are willing to go into a disaster area to help and we should laud them, not slam them with a blanket condemnation.

 

Finally, I find the comparison to the Catholic Church to be odious. The charities do try to ensure that their staff behave in an exemplary manner, and the vast, vast majority do. The Catholic Church just transferred their staff to another location where they committed the same crimes again and again.

 

Yes, the non- profits need to do better, but they ALREADY do better than most organizations in the world.

 

[BobBKK]

I think the CEO is right. Oxfam cannot control the behavior of all their staff nor can any other organisation. The staff were sacked what's the issue?  if you sacked everyone who ever slept with a hooker there would be a lot of vacancies in all sectors all over the world.

[MaeJoMTB]

21 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

I think the CEO is right. Oxfam cannot control the behavior of all their staff nor can any other organisation. The staff were sacked what's the issue?  if you sacked everyone who ever slept with a hooker there would be a lot of vacancies in all sectors all over the world.

You ignore the big picture,

This is a feminist war against white men having heterosexual sex.

[Credo]

2 hours ago, FreddieRoyle said:

 This is quite incredible. These aid agencies have been caught abusing the most vulnerable and desperate members of deprived societies, and rather than make grovelling apologies and try to regain some credibility by supporting full prosecution of the sick abusers, we get them essentially playing the victim card. Criticism is disproportionate. Sick, sick, sick. Not only Oxfam we have the hideous Brendan Cox from Hope not Hate(how incredibly ironic!) and Tariq Ramadam also offering excuses and weaseling around the serious sex crime charges leveled at them.

 This goes beyond a few virtue signalling perverts. Charity may never recover from this - much like the catholic church. Forever ruined by mishandling of sexual abuse of the vulnerable.

Hookers are "the most vulnerable and desperate members of deprived societies"?   Really?

 

[Tapster]

Argh!

Again, there's no sense of proportion!

Damn the ultra-liberals and/or 3rd wave feminazis!

 

There is no evidence at all of underage sex workers/victims. Saying "it cannot be ruled out" isn't evidence.

 

Using prostitutes may not be to everyone's moral taste, but it is an individual disciplinary matter.............except nowadays it isn't!

 

Are prostitutes automatically to be regarded as victims and people who pay for sex as abusers?

 

The one thing which is black and white is using the charity's money to pay prostitutes. Now that is taking the piss!

 

 

[Baerboxer]

5 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Respectfully, you are taking a sledge-hammer to kill a fly. Yes, those people who abused the most vulnerable should have the book thrown at them, but to discredit all of OxFam's (and others) great work is plain wrong.

 

I worked in the non-profit sector for many years and saw firsthand the sheer number of people who worked in shitty situations and among the worst possible conditions to assist those in need. Further, I rarely saw anyone who worked less than a 12 hour day (everyday!) and did so for a salary that is far, far below what the complainers have gotten. There are very few people who are willing to go into a disaster area to help and we should laud them, not slam them with a blanket condemnation.

 

Finally, I find the comparison to the Catholic Church to be odious. The charities do try to ensure that their staff behave in an exemplary manner, and the vast, vast majority do. The Catholic Church just transferred their staff to another location where they committed the same crimes again and again.

 

Yes, the non- profits need to do better, but they ALREADY do better than most organizations in the world.

 

 

The issue is the Oxfam Deputy CEO resigned over this. Now the CEO, who presumably didn't feel responsible, is as Ms. Smith points out playing the victim card because Oxfam he feels, shouldn't be criticized so harshly. Most of that harsh comment is aimed at the way it was handled and attempts to keep it quiet. Something as CEO, he ought to feel some responsibility for.

 

Many charity donors and supporters no longer donate to Oxfam as the proportion of donations actually reaching the intended recipients is tiny compared to how much goes in "costs". Maybe the CEO should be addressing that.

 

I appreciate the work of the third sector, charities, and NGO's and have spoken at several aid conferences organized in Asia with the UN. I am not anti aid or charity. But there is a lot wrong with Oxfam and the current CEO ought to be taking positive actions rather than constantly defending the positions.

[Baerboxer]

28 minutes ago, Tapster said:

Argh!

Again, there's no sense of proportion!

Damn the ultra-liberals and/or 3rd wave feminazis!

 

There is no evidence at all of underage sex workers/victims. Saying "it cannot be ruled out" isn't evidence.

 

Using prostitutes may not be to everyone's moral taste, but it is an individual disciplinary matter.............except nowadays it isn't!

 

Are prostitutes automatically to be regarded as victims and people who pay for sex as abusers?

 

The one thing which is black and white is using the charity's money to pay prostitutes. Now that is taking the piss!

 

 

 

It's about people being funded by charitable donations using that money inappropriately, possibly. 

 

And about the possible/probably exploitation of people in a very vulnerable situation by those who are allegedly there to help.

 

Or are you suggesting that all the prostitutes used were active sex workers, before the natural disaster shattered their lives?

[citybiker]

The more you research the more it gets unpleasant.

Maybe the CEO should learn from another well known charity

Medicins Sans Frontieres, Doctors Without Borders.

They manage to discipline its staff due to inappropriate behaviour.

Ignorance is no excuse for poor man management, getting caught is simply part of the process, rectifying the issue’s is where these CEO’s and others at the top should be focusing on.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[KiChakayan]

4 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

You ignore the big picture,

This is a feminist war against white men having heterosexual sex.

This is my coming out.

 

I used to work for a prominent UN agency, and I was a lunch time boomboomater.

 

But I always paid out of my own pocket; unlike one of our former DGs who was using the agency's account to boomboom female staff at the Intercontinental up the road.

[Tapster]

@Baerboxer

 

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

Or are you suggesting that all the prostitutes used were active sex workers, before the natural disaster shattered their lives?

 

The honest answer is that we don't know, do we?

 

My angle on this is to lament the knee-jerk assumptions made, to rail against automatic condemnation and to allow those involved a presumption of innocence.

 

KiChakayan reports above, that it is certainly not unknown for agency workers in distant (and probably not so distant) lands to avail themselves of paid female companionship.

On that issue, I say who are we to judge, all other things being equal/fair/non-exploitative.

 

 

[RuamRudy]

7 hours ago, FreddieRoyle said:

 This is quite incredible. These aid agencies have been caught abusing the most vulnerable and desperate members of deprived societies, and rather than make grovelling apologies and try to regain some credibility by supporting full prosecution of the sick abusers, we get them essentially playing the victim card. Criticism is disproportionate. Sick, sick, sick. Not only Oxfam we have the hideous Brendan Cox from Hope not Hate(how incredibly ironic!) and Tariq Ramadam also offering excuses and weaseling around the serious sex crime charges leveled at them.

 This goes beyond a few virtue signalling perverts. Charity may never recover from this - much like the catholic church. Forever ruined by mishandling of sexual abuse of the vulnerable.

Off topic, but the demonisation of Brendan Cox is truly disgusting. A far right brexiteer murdered his wife because she had the audacity to speak up about the folly of Brexit; now the right wing rump are continuing the assaults on him because he was not cowed into silence. 

[johnarth]

12 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Respectfully, you are taking a sledge-hammer to kill a fly. Yes, those people who abused the most vulnerable should have the book thrown at them, but to discredit all of OxFam's (and others) great work is plain wrong.

 

I worked in the non-profit sector for many years and saw firsthand the sheer number of people who worked in shitty situations and among the worst possible conditions to assist those in need. Further, I rarely saw anyone who worked less than a 12 hour day (everyday!) and did so for a salary that is far, far below what the complainers have gotten. There are very few people who are willing to go into a disaster area to help and we should laud them, not slam them with a blanket condemnation.

 

Finally, I find the comparison to the Catholic Church to be odious. The charities do try to ensure that their staff behave in an exemplary manner, and the vast, vast majority do. The Catholic Church just transferred their staff to another location where they committed the same crimes again and again.

 

Yes, the non- profits need to do better, but they ALREADY do better than most organizations in the world.

 

Samui you have missed the whole point, the poor hard workers are never questioned, it is always the ones above the workers, that put the blame elsewhere

[Scott]

I have worked with and for NGO's in the past.   Oxfam's overhead expenses seem on the high side, but some of the bigger organizations that are ready to be on the ground very quickly have higher expenses than those that go in later.    They have to keep staff and supplies ready to go.

 

Sexual impropriety is a low level problem in most post disaster zones. I doubt that anyone can stop people from sexual behavior.   The military certainly can't.   Castigation of the entire organization seems a bit of an over-reaction.  

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 1:18 PM, Baerboxer said:

 

It's about people being funded by charitable donations using that money inappropriately, possibly. 

 

And about the possible/probably exploitation of people in a very vulnerable situation by those who are allegedly there to help.

 

Or are you suggesting that all the prostitutes used were active sex workers, before the natural disaster shattered their lives?

I would suggest that those that wish to castigate men for doing what men do, and have always done, should have to prove that the prostitutes had not been prostitutes before the natural disaster occurred and that they hadn't changed their business model simply because of it.

I understand that many people don't like men doing what men do, and have always done, or that women are prepared to enable men to do what men have always done, but if they can't understand that accusing organisations like Oxfam of enabling or condoning such expected behaviour is going to result in those organisations losing funds to help those actually in trouble they are just ignorant. If Oxfam and other organisations end up failing and no other organisations are able to step up ( which could happen simply because men won't work for them anymore- like most men won't be teachers any more ), the people that will actually suffer are those in natural disasters.

[ravip]

On ‎18‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 6:22 AM, Samui Bodoh said:

Respectfully, you are taking a sledge-hammer to kill a fly. Yes, those people who abused the most vulnerable should have the book thrown at them, but to discredit all of OxFam's (and others) great work is plain wrong.

 

I worked in the non-profit sector for many years and saw firsthand the sheer number of people who worked in shitty situations and among the worst possible conditions to assist those in need. Further, I rarely saw anyone who worked less than a 12 hour day (everyday!) and did so for a salary that is far, far below what the complainers have gotten. There are very few people who are willing to go into a disaster area to help and we should laud them, not slam them with a blanket condemnation.

 

Finally, I find the comparison to the Catholic Church to be odious. The charities do try to ensure that their staff behave in an exemplary manner, and the vast, vast majority do. The Catholic Church just transferred their staff to another location where they committed the same crimes again and again.

 

Yes, the non- profits need to do better, but they ALREADY do better than most organizations in the world.

 

There maybe aid agencies who do genuine work for the needy.

But as you say " did so for a salary that is far, far below what the complainers have gotten" is 100% inaccurate.

The do gooders are paid fabulously with huge extras, such as luxury furnished residences, fully paid R & R etc etc. People who helps the needy for nothing are hard to find.

I know, I've seen with my own eyes.

[dick dasterdly]

On 2/18/2018 at 1:15 PM, Baerboxer said:

 

The issue is the Oxfam Deputy CEO resigned over this. Now the CEO, who presumably didn't feel responsible, is as Ms. Smith points out playing the victim card because Oxfam he feels, shouldn't be criticized so harshly. Most of that harsh comment is aimed at the way it was handled and attempts to keep it quiet. Something as CEO, he ought to feel some responsibility for.

 

Many charity donors and supporters no longer donate to Oxfam as the proportion of donations actually reaching the intended recipients is tiny compared to how much goes in "costs". Maybe the CEO should be addressing that.

 

I appreciate the work of the third sector, charities, and NGO's and have spoken at several aid conferences organized in Asia with the UN. I am not anti aid or charity. But there is a lot wrong with Oxfam and the current CEO ought to be taking positive actions rather than constantly defending the positions.

"Many charity donors and supporters no longer donate to Oxfam as the proportion of donations actually reaching the intended recipients is tiny compared to how much goes in "costs"."

 

Very true.  There was a lot of coverage many years ago about the wealth of these charities/salaries paid to the executives/proportion of donations spent on 'admin', rather than the intended cause.....

 

IIRC - oxfam was at/near the top of all these lists....

[ravip]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"Many charity donors and supporters no longer donate to Oxfam as the proportion of donations actually reaching the intended recipients is tiny compared to how much goes in "costs"."

 

Very true.  There was a lot of coverage many years ago about the wealth of these charities/salaries paid to the executives/proportion of donations spent on 'admin', rather than the intended cause.....

 

IIRC - oxfam was at/near the top of all these lists....

100% correct and applies to most charity organizations.

 

[Samui Bodoh]

57 minutes ago, ravip said:

There maybe aid agencies who do genuine work for the needy.

But as you say " did so for a salary that is far, far below what the complainers have gotten" is 100% inaccurate.

The do gooders are paid fabulously with huge extras, such as luxury furnished residences, fully paid R & R etc etc. People who helps the needy for nothing are hard to find.

I know, I've seen with my own eyes.

I do not know what world you were in, but I spent 25 years working with many people (thousands) who were overworked and grossly underpaid for what they did. And none of them had a 'luxury furnished residence".

 

I can only assume that what you saw "with your own eyes" was the cocktail party circuit for wannabe development people rather than the reality of people who gave their time and skills with great generosity and compassion.

 

You need to get out to the field where development and assistance for the needy actually takes place.

 

If I may be blunt; your post is offensive.

 

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, Samui Bodoh said:

I do not know what world you were in, but I spent 25 years working with many people who were overworked and grossly underpaid for what they did. And none of them had a 'luxury furnished residence".

 

I can only assume that what you saw "with your own eyes" was the cocktail party circuit for wannabe development people rather than the reality of people who gave their time and skills with great generosity and compassion.

 

You need to actually get out to the field where development and assistance for the needy actually takes place.

 

Possibly true - but potential donors still need to be v aware as to the salaries paid to the executives/proportion of donations spent on admin. and wealth of those charities.

 

As always, it's those at the 'bottom of the chain' that genuinely care and work for nothing.  Those at the top are too often paid far too much for people that supposedly 'care about the cause'...

[Samui Bodoh]

7 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Possibly true - but potential donors still need to be v aware as to the salaries paid to the executives/proportion of donations spent on admin. and wealth of those charities.

 

As always, it's those at the 'bottom of the chain' that genuinely care and work for nothing.  Those at the top are too often paid far too much for people that supposedly 'care about the cause'...

The people that you and the other poster met are:

 

The Development Set
by Ross Coggins

 

Excuse me, friends, I must catch my jet
I’m off to join the Development Set;
My bags are packed, and I’ve had all my shots
I have traveller’s checks and pills for the trots!

 

The Development Set is bright and noble
Our thoughts are deep and our vision global;
Although we move with the better classes
Our thoughts are always with the masses.

 

In Sheraton Hotels in scattered nations
We damn multi-national corporations;
injustice seems easy to protest
In such seething hotbeds of social rest.

 

We discuss malnutrition over steaks
And plan hunger talks during coffee breaks.
Whether Asian floods or African drought,
We face each issue with open mouth.

 

We bring in consultants whose circumlocution
Raises difficulties for every solution –
Thus guaranteeing continued good eating
By showing the need for another meeting.

 

The language of the Development Set
Stretches the English alphabet;
We use swell words like “epigenetic”
“Micro”, “macro”, and “logarithmetic”

 

It pleasures us to be esoteric –
It’s so intellectually atmospheric!
And although establishments may be unmoved,
Our vocabularies are much improved.

 

When the talk gets deep and you’re feeling numb,
You can keep your shame to a minimum:
To show that you, too, are intelligent
Smugly ask, “Is it really development?”

 

Or say, “That’s fine in practice, but don’t you see:
It doesn’t work out in theory!”
A few may find this incomprehensible,
But most will admire you as deep and sensible.

 

Development set homes are extremely chic,
Full of carvings, curios, and draped with batik.
Eye-level photographs subtly assure
That your host is at home with the great and the poor.

 

Enough of these verses – on with the mission!
Our task is as broad as the human condition!
Just pray god the biblical promise is true:
The poor ye shall always have with you.

 

Perhaps, before you comment, you should meet the real people involved.

 

[ravip]

32 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I do not know what world you were in, but I spent 25 years working with many people (thousands) who were overworked and grossly underpaid for what they did. And none of them had a 'luxury furnished residence".

 

I can only assume that what you saw "with your own eyes" was the cocktail party circuit for wannabe development people rather than the reality of people who gave their time and skills with great generosity and compassion.

 

You need to get out to the field where development and assistance for the needy actually takes place.

 

If I may be blunt; your post is offensive.

 

If I may be blunt; your post is offensive.

The truth CAN be offensive.

 

You need to get out to the field...

I HAVE been to the field.

 

Read the post #22 - exactly what I mean.

I have seen with my own eyes, YES!

[dick dasterdly]

14 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

The people that you and the other poster met are:

 

The Development Set
by Ross Coggins

 

Excuse me, friends, I must catch my jet
I’m off to join the Development Set;
My bags are packed, and I’ve had all my shots
I have traveller’s checks and pills for the trots!

 

The Development Set is bright and noble
Our thoughts are deep and our vision global;
Although we move with the better classes
Our thoughts are always with the masses.

 

In Sheraton Hotels in scattered nations
We damn multi-national corporations;
injustice seems easy to protest
In such seething hotbeds of social rest.

 

We discuss malnutrition over steaks
And plan hunger talks during coffee breaks.
Whether Asian floods or African drought,
We face each issue with open mouth.

 

We bring in consultants whose circumlocution
Raises difficulties for every solution –
Thus guaranteeing continued good eating
By showing the need for another meeting.

 

The language of the Development Set
Stretches the English alphabet;
We use swell words like “epigenetic”
“Micro”, “macro”, and “logarithmetic”

 

It pleasures us to be esoteric –
It’s so intellectually atmospheric!
And although establishments may be unmoved,
Our vocabularies are much improved.

 

When the talk gets deep and you’re feeling numb,
You can keep your shame to a minimum:
To show that you, too, are intelligent
Smugly ask, “Is it really development?”

 

Or say, “That’s fine in practice, but don’t you see:
It doesn’t work out in theory!”
A few may find this incomprehensible,
But most will admire you as deep and sensible.

 

Development set homes are extremely chic,
Full of carvings, curios, and draped with batik.
Eye-level photographs subtly assure
That your host is at home with the great and the poor.

 

Enough of these verses – on with the mission!
Our task is as broad as the human condition!
Just pray god the biblical promise is true:
The poor ye shall always have with you.

 

Perhaps, before you comment, you should meet the real people involved.

 

Great poem, but I'm obviously missing out as your comment doesn't tie-in with the poem?

[Samui Bodoh]

11 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Great poem, but I'm obviously missing out as your comment doesn't tie-in with the poem?

Sorry, I thought it was clear.

 

There are people (the development set) who pretend to help and then there are the people who actually help. Most people only meet the 'development set'. And that is a shame.

 

As you might have noticed, I (and many others like me) really do not like the development set.

 

Cheers

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, ravip said:

There maybe aid agencies who do genuine work for the needy.

But as you say " did so for a salary that is far, far below what the complainers have gotten" is 100% inaccurate.

The do gooders are paid fabulously with huge extras, such as luxury furnished residences, fully paid R & R etc etc. People who helps the needy for nothing are hard to find.

I know, I've seen with my own eyes.

I'd say VSO type organisations where volunteers do it for nothing but a warm fuzzy feeling are the only ones that don't expect to get paid.

If I were working in a disaster area where I might be killed by bad people or fall sick I'd absolutely expect to be paid, or get some fine compensation.

Before anyone attacks me for that, I wanted to join VSA ( our version of VSO ), but the qualifications required were far too specific and of too high a level for me to be accepted ie I could have done the job, but they wanted qualified instructors, which I was not.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Possibly true - but potential donors still need to be v aware as to the salaries paid to the executives/proportion of donations spent on admin. and wealth of those charities.

 

As always, it's those at the 'bottom of the chain' that genuinely care and work for nothing.  Those at the top are too often paid far too much for people that supposedly 'care about the cause'...

IMO people "at the top" don't care about the "cause" and are in it for the prestige or something. The people that go for management positions are usually the ones that don't like doing the job, but do like ordering other people around.

Notice how when the awards are being handed out it is always management fronting up when they actually did nothing worthwhile.

I'm minded of the time when some VIP came to the hospital maternity ward because of some special baby, the people that got their photo in the paper with the VIP were the matron and the ward charge nurse. Never mind they never ever went near an actual baby in the course of their "work". Same in all endeavours I guess. The real workers are rarely if ever acknowledged. Like generals covered with medals when they never heard a bullet fired in anger.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Great poem, but I'm obviously missing out as your comment doesn't tie-in with the poem?

Hmmm. I got it straight away. I agree as well.

[jvs]

On 18-2-2018 at 9:49 AM, MaeJoMTB said:

You ignore the big picture,

This is a feminist war against white men having heterosexual sex.

You are so right,i said in another place a while ago to be very afraid of

this 'me too; campaign.No male is totally innocent if you go by the feminists rules.

I totally agree to charge guys who have really committed a crime but some of these accusations are just unreasonable.

[ravip]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'd say VSO type organisations where volunteers do it for nothing but a warm fuzzy feeling are the only ones that don't expect to get paid.

If I were working in a disaster area where I might be killed by bad people or fall sick I'd absolutely expect to be paid, or get some fine compensation.

Before anyone attacks me for that, I wanted to join VSA ( our version of VSO ), but the qualifications required were far too specific and of too high a level for me to be accepted ie I could have done the job, but they wanted qualified instructors, which I was not.

"If I were working in a disaster area where I might be killed by bad people or fall sick I'd absolutely expect to be paid, or get some fine compensation."

 

I have nothing against it - my point is that almost 80% or over is spent as "Admin costs" by these charitable organisations - and at times, they fiercely compete against each other to "win" a disaster area for themselves!

So eager are they to help the poor and the needy.