New laws provide greater protection for people who rent property in Thailand

[BlackJack]

9 hours ago, smutcakes said:

Some of it is good, some of it is impractical and stupid. There are incredibly poor tenants as well as poor landlords, so landlords need protection as well.

I had Chin*** rent my condo and they trashed it. Over 300,000 baht plus in damages and only 50K bond. Always late in paying rent sometimes up to 2 months outstanding. Electricity was cut off several times and needed to be put back on.

After getting it ready I sold it.

 

[blackcab]

3 hours ago, swoods58 said:

I live in a condo complex in Hua Hin with maybe 20 rooms rented on longer term contracts to Farangs and many others on hotel like arrangements. Is the owner of the building considered to own more than 5 properties as he has more than 5 leases or is the building one property? I too pay about 50% higher than the PEA rate for electricity and would like it to be reduced.

 

The owner of the building is considered to own more than 5 properties if they lease or sublease:

 

• Five units of property or more
• Regardless of whether or not the units are in the same building
• To individual lessees
• For residential purposes
• In exchange for a fee collected by the business operator

So to answer your question, yes, they are bound by this law. Of course if they don't comply then someone will have to complain and see what effect it has.

[BlackJack]

the fly in my cocktail is that most if not all the condo's are residential (comes under the condo act) and so renting condo's out (comes under the Hotel act).

 

Condos rented out are commercial and restricted to the ground floor -  ie the shops, laundry, restaurants.

 

Imagine if this law wasnt in place then you would have a laundry mat next to you on the 20th floor or a restaurant.

 

Technically if a short term renter injures themselves then the building may pay as it is insured as far as the common area is concerned. 

 

Inside the condo is the Landlords business to insure the tenants and if they injure themselves can sue you.

 

The insurance co can worm out of payment as you are renting like a hotel or guest house and different insurance is required.

 

Can of worms me thinks

[blackcab]

2 hours ago, SunsetT said:

Yes I was wondering the same; will it be more than 5 apartments or 5 apartment blocks? And yes it will be great if the rip off 8thb to 10thb per unit apartment rates are reduced to the rate that people pay when billed direct from the electricity company.

 

Five individual units (whether room, condo, flat, etc) as long as they are all rented to individuals.

[BlackJack]

have fun with this one boys as I will not follow - to many interuptions

[newnative]

1 hour ago, BlackJack said:

the fly in my cocktail is that most if not all the condo's are residential (comes under the condo act) and so renting condo's out (comes under the Hotel act).

 

Condos rented out are commercial and restricted to the ground floor -  ie the shops, laundry, restaurants.

 

Imagine if this law wasnt in place then you would have a laundry mat next to you on the 20th floor or a restaurant.

 

Technically if a short term renter injures themselves then the building may pay as it is insured as far as the common area is concerned. 

 

Inside the condo is the Landlords business to insure the tenants and if they injure themselves can sue you.

 

The insurance co can worm out of payment as you are renting like a hotel or guest house and different insurance is required.

 

Can of worms me thinks

The Hotel Act only comes into play if the condo is rented for less than 30 days, which is illegal.

[connda]

This is good news for people who rent.  It's about time.

11. Any term making the lessee liable for damages incurred due to ordinary wear and tear from usage of the property’s contents and equipment;

 

Number 11 is exactly why our last landlord keep out security deposit.  The on-demand shower heating element was burnt out.  It was a very old unit. 
"Shower heat no work - you paid."  It's predatory nonsense.   So nice to see some reasonable limits set on landlords. 

[InMyShadow]

how may are renting 5 or more? ..not many

[anon789561]

9 hours ago, cornishcarlos said:

 

You think every landlord is rich ? 

Some people buy an investment property as a retirement plan and rent it out. Rent doesn't necessarily make the owner a profit, just covers costs. Some landlords end up very much out of pocket, due to bad tenants !!

i kid you not. just tried to google the news article but can't find it. we rent out a place in sw london and yes 100% it had to be subsidized by us every month and if it lay empty for a month it was alot of money lost. especially with agent fees. anyway. we had tenants in there in a 2 bed place and one rented out to another through a very well known estate agent that apparently did references etc. one day i get an email out of the blue and didn't recognize his name. the email went a bit like this. you don't know me but my son is living in your property and heres a link. the link was to a newspaper that had named the other tenant as being prosecuted for grooming girls online and making indecent images of kids. the dad of the other bloke said i hope you understand i don't want my son living there and i hope you will honour the deposit, which i did. now the little nonce boy, only around 25 gets taken into protective custody. i call the police on knowing this and was basically given a big F Off. he was taken into police protection and i could not even get my rent back. unbelievable. an in the new paper article they mentioned the building so always had ID in case someone mistook him for me. not long before that there was a paedo nearby living in a caravan and they locked him in and set it on fire. long story i know but we aren't rich and that property needs to be rented or we pick up the bill. seems the UK thought it ok he didn't need to pay his. rant over. really <deleted> me off

[Sydebolle]

It's like everything else here, the minimum wage, the max. working hours, the buyers protection laws etc. 
In my opinion a waste of ink as trying to enforce the law will grind everything to a screeching halt. Anything below a few hundred thousand Baht is legally possible but objectively speaking a total waste of time and resources. 
A word to the wise; if you intend to move out then stop paying the last monthly rent as in (my) all cases I never saw the deposit for reasons like "could not find a consequent tenant" or "wait until I find a new tenant". They will boil but it puts you into the driver's seat and - once all is done, settled and cleared, then pay up what you still own the landlord. Common sense, regretfully a scare commodity here .... 

[JimmyJ]

10 hours ago, stud858 said:

It seems the regulations not always enforced to the exact description. I've taken this approach.  I'm a foreigner. I go to report TM30 for anytime away from my apartment more than 24 hours. No exceptions.  Can't lose that way.  Except for your wasted time. 

If you leave your apartment for more than 24 hours, how would Immigration find out ?

[JimmyJ]

It's a shame they limited this to only landlords with 5 or more properties.

 

They've identified a lot of problems (e.g., deposits not being returned), but they are allowing those problems to continue except with certain landlords.

[Grumpy Duck]

6 hours ago, swoods58 said:

I live in a condo complex in Hua Hin with maybe 20 rooms rented on longer term contracts to Farangs and many others on hotel like arrangements. Is the owner of the building considered to own more than 5 properties as he has more than 5 leases or is the building one property? I too pay about 50% higher than the PEA rate for electricity and would like it to be reduced.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

I am not an attorney, and not offering legal advice but as a formal owner of 11 condominium units each unit in my case was considered a separate property even though we marketed them as a single complex. My attorney explained that the purpose of condo conversion is to separate each unit into separate individual units. 

[YoungBrit]

29 minutes ago, Sydebolle said:

A word to the wise; if you intend to move out then stop paying the last monthly rent as in (my) all cases I never saw the deposit for reasons like "could not find a consequent tenant" or "wait until I find a new tenant". They will boil but it puts you into the driver's seat and - once all is done, settled and cleared, then pay up what you still own the landlord. Common sense, regretfully a scare commodity here .... 

4

 

Most contracts now will say something along the lines of "deposit will not be used as rent" so you would in effect be in breach of contract and the owner has the right to keep the deposit once the time stated in the contract has passed, usually, 14 days after rent is due.

[Mac98]

17 hours ago, dotpoom said:

"Additionally, a tenant now has the right to terminate their contract at any time, providing they give 30 days written notice to the landlord."

     So what's the point of having a contract at all for more than 30 days?

So the landlord can't raise rates. Has to keep rent and fees at agreed level until end of contract.

[inThailand]

Like most laws here I suspect these will be ignored by the landlord and by those charged with enforcing it. So as usual, nothing has actually changed.

[sendintheclowns]

despite its flaws, it's a start, which is encouraging for anyone who supports consumer rights. however, granting the tenant the right to break a 12 month lease seems onerous - particularly where one has offered a discounted rental rate in order to get a long term tenant. 

[stud858]

12 hours ago, JimmyJ said:

If you leave your apartment for more than 24 hours, how would Immigration find out ?

Not likely they would know,  but the purpose of going often and encouraging everyone to go overly often would over load their system and perhaps enforce more suitable rules by enforcers. Take some chocolates. Be polite.  I'll go every month. After going shopping for 6 hours best to report your address.

[blackcab]

7 hours ago, Mac98 said:

So the landlord can't raise rates. Has to keep rent and fees at agreed level until end of contract.

 

But the landlord is the person who offers the contract. The landlord doesn't have to offer a 6 month or 12 month contract - anything in excess of 30 days is perfectly legal to offer. After the law takes effect, there is actually no point in offering a long contract as you cannot enforce anything other than the tenant giving you a 30 day notice period, and any long contract means you cannot pass on legitimate raises in utility fees.

 

We are seriously thinking about offering a 2 month contract, with automatic extensions of 1 month if either us or the tenant does not give notice. That way if the electricity FT charge shoots up due to unforeseen circumstances we won't get hit with a charge we can't pass on.

 

We have a lot of tenants. They are almost 100 per cent Thai citizens who work in places such as 7-Eleven, factories and local hospitals - hence our monthly rates are low and the tenant's security deposit is low.

[YoungBrit]

 

48 minutes ago, blackcab said:

We are seriously thinking about offering a 2 month contract, with automatic extensions of 1 month if either us or the tenant does not give notice. That way if the electricity FT charge shoots up due to unforeseen circumstances we won't get hit with a charge we can't pass on.

 

 

1

Yes, it's just a monthly contract, so that could mean rates rise to be inline with monthly rates which are of course higher than 6 month to 1 year contracts. 

 

 

[SunsetT]

17 hours ago, blackcab said:

 

Five individual units (whether room, condo, flat, etc) as long as they are all rented to individuals.

I hope u r right but where is your source for this information?

[mogandave]

I think the utilities charges are only a concern if the landlord is marking them up. 

[blackcab]

1 hour ago, SunsetT said:

I hope u r right but where is your source for this information?

I work as a senior manager in a property company that is 100 per cent owned by Thai people.

 

We have Thai staff with MBA's and lawyers who read Thai law in its original, untranslated form.

 

The company I work for owns and leases out many, many properties. I am one of the very few people that has a work permit with a job description that allows me to Buy, Sell, Sell with the Right of Redemption, Arrange a Rental Period or Lease for a Landlord or a Tenant, for any Land, House, Condominium or any other Construction whatsoever, and also for any other kind of asset fixed to the land including rivers, ponds, trees, minerals (and much more as the list of included items is quite long).

 

It It literally my job to understand this law and ensure the company I work for is in compliance.

[blackcab]

9 minutes ago, mogandave said:

I think the utilities charges are only a concern if the landlord is marking them up. 

 

The electricity cost is a concern to us because the FT rate can vary from month to month. If we offer long contracts and the rate jumps we would lose a considerable amount of money.

[mogandave]

Just now, blackcab said:

 

The electricity cost is a concern to us because the FT rate can vary from month to month. If we offer long contracts and the rate jumps we would lose a considerable amount of money.

Unless you charge the actual rate.

 

Are utilities included in the rent?

[Maestro]

23 hours ago, swoods58 said:

Is the owner of the building considered to own more than 5 properties as he has more than 5 leases or is the building one property?

 

There is no owner of the condominium building.

 

The person, natural or juristic, that developed the building is the owner of the unsold condominium units.

 

[blackcab]

21 minutes ago, mogandave said:

Unless you charge the actual rate.

 

Are utilities included in the rent?

 

The actual cost price of electricity varies month to month depending on the FT rate. The cost of water varies according to volume used through each meter. We issue invoices to our tenants on the 25th of the month and we expect payment by the 5th of the month. (The law states that we have to issue at least 7 days before the 5th).

 

Our invoices for water and electricity do not arrive until after we have issued the invoices, so it is impossible for us to charge the actual rate unless we delay issuing the invoices. If we do that, some of the tenants will have spent the money by the time we ask for payment. That situation isn't good for anyone.

 

Utilities are not included in the rent. We mainly rent low cost Thai-style apartments, not serviced condos.

 

We have averaged the cost of our electricity against our occupancy rated for the last 3 years, and the closest we can get is 5 baht per unit including VAT. At this rate we would receive 4.67 baht per unit and we would pay 0.33 baht per unit VAT to the Revenue Office.

 

 

 

 

 

[spacebass]

The rule of law does not exist in Thailand.

[stud858]

1 hour ago, Maestro said:

 

There is no owner of the condominium building.

 

The person, natural or juristic, that developed the building is the owner of the unsold condominium units.

 

I'm very interested in this topic. My condo had unsold units from a bankrupt developer.  I thought they become property of the courts.do you want to chat via PM?

[blackcab]

1 hour ago, stud858 said:

I'm very interested in this topic. My condo had unsold units from a bankrupt developer.  I thought they become property of the courts.do you want to chat via PM?

 

Why not start a new thread in the real estate forum?