Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[dunroaming]

10 hours ago, Blackheart1916 said:

Ridiculous article. From the Guardian, so any semblance of reality is fleeting at best. So none of these problems existed before the Brexit vote? I doubt it. Anti Brexit people are like anti Trumpers - blame for any and all ills, real or imagined, are laid at the doorstep of Brexit and Trump. You got beat, get over it, carry on. If the quick Brexit had been started, it would almost be finished now, but the anti Brexit crowd seem to now enjoy being perpetually aggrieved.

Still in denial then!

[nauseus]

4 minutes ago, aright said:

Exactly! The answer to your quite difficult question why were green belts created is "To support purple trousers".

Looks like we'll need more agricultural land anyway for the free range chucks and piggies.

[dunroaming]

5 minutes ago, nauseus said:

These democratically elected parties should honour the manifestos that they were democratically elected on!

Those democratically elected parties should represent the interests of the people who voted for them.  Sometimes that means trying to stop them making a massive mistake.  Or do you expect everyone to walk about in blinkers?

[nauseus]

I see this was listed in TV under "Opinion", then I saw Guardian! Explains all I suppose.

[Air Smiles]

59 minutes ago, Bundooman said:

You obviously are unused to the word and meaning of democracy as understood by the majority of people in the UK.

 

Our voting system has always been exactly that. Once a result has been established, then that result is the one that legally stands.

 

 

I'm sorry but this is completely wrong. 

 

The UK has elections every 4/5 years, giving the electorate a chance to change their minds.

 

Even the 4/5 year rule is not set in stone as there has been 2 elections within 2 years in recent times and there might even be a 3rd in 2018, which means 3 elections over a 4/5 year period where normally there would only be one.

 

This is before we get to the fact the referendum wasn't legally binding as you're suggesting.

 

And, that is before we get to the fact the referendum build up was an utter shambles as no one knew exactly what was being voted for. 

 

None of the current Brexit issues were even mentioned to the electorate prior to the election, so how could they hope to make a good and relevant decision in the voting booth?

 

If the electorate were told the day before the referendum that a leave result would sink the pound to the lowest level in 30 years, would it still have been a leave result?

 

Democracy means giving the people a chance to express their will, if Brexiteers are convinced the will of the people is Brexit then I don't see why they should be so against another referendum as according to Brexiteers it will give only bring the same leave result again....but no, the reality is that Brexiteers only believe in democracy in so far as it gives the result they want, so now they don't want any more democracy as they know the will/mood of the nation has changed in the face of the glaring realities.

 

 

[Timbob]

1 hour ago, David in the north said:

Labour are slowly coming to their senses?????????????????
With the "talent" on the shadow front bench that is a total impossibility.
 

Labour have the ideas and are ready to govern. 

 

This will get laughed down here I'm sure as TV seems full of the Daily Mail types, but Jeremy Corbyn will be a GREAT Prime Minister.

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Those democratically elected parties should represent the interests of the people who voted for them.  Sometimes that means trying to stop them making a massive mistake.  Or do you expect everyone to walk about in blinkers?

Haha. Ask the Labour leave voters about that after Corbyn's speech this week. Better blinkers that a complete blindfold.

[Bluespunk]

11 hours ago, cooked said:

maybe there is a housing shortage due to the impossibility of planning for an economy that allows hundreds of thousands of immigrants in every year? 

Dunno, that;s probably racist.

It's certainly ill thought out.

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, Timbob said:

Labour have the ideas and are ready to govern. 

 

This will get laughed down here I'm sure as TV seems full of the Daily Mail types, but Jeremy Corbyn will be a GREAT Prime Minister.

He just lost the chance to be PM. See my post above.

[nauseus]

4 minutes ago, Air Smiles said:

 

I'm sorry but this is completely wrong. 

 

The UK has elections every 4/5 years, giving the electorate a chanced to change their minds.

 

Even the 4/5 year rule is not set in stone as there has been 2 elections within 2 years in recent times and there might even be a 3rd in 2018, which means 3 elections over a 4/5 year period where normally there would only be one.

 

This is before we get to the fact the referendum wasn't legally binding as you're suggesting.

 

And, that is before we get to the fact the referendum build up was an utter shambles as no one knew exactly what was being voted for. 

 

None of the current Brexit issues were even mentioned to the electorate prior to the election, so how could they hope to make a good and relevant decision in the voting booth?

 

If the electorate were told the day before the referendum that a leave result would sink the pound to the lowest level in 30 years, would it still have been a leave result?

 

Democracy means giving the people a chance to express their will, if Brexiteers are convinced the will of the people is Brexit then I don't see why they should be so against another referendum as according to Brexiteers it will give only bring the same leave result again....but no, the reality is that Brexiteers only believe in democracy in so far as it given them the result they want, so now they don't want any more democracy as they know the will/mood of the nation has changed in the face of the glaring realities.

 

 

Sameold.

[Grouse]

19 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Stop asking for answers that have already been explained, Grouse.

Well I don't buy the German Auto Industry worry about brexit

 

I don't buy the cheap food and damn the consequences line

 

What's next sovereignty?

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, aright said:

The EU has not harmed me personally.

In 1912 my grandmother liked Germany. Remind us of what happened in subsequent years.

It pays to look both ways when you want to cross the road.

Right you are and don't forget about the British burning the white house and the way those Zulu's attacked us just because we wanted to steal their land, we sure showed Napoleon though, of course when the Romans invaded it was a bit different and I have never forgiven those Normans.

[Timbob]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

He just lost the chance to be PM. See my post above.

I don't see it that way. He respects the result. He is after all a euro-skeptic. Not all leave voters want to stop trading with Europe and a customs union is vital. Of course, the way the right-wing media portray his speech will have some influence, but there always smearing him so what's new.

 

 

[FritsSikkink]

40 minutes ago, drchuckknisley said:

What the world is seeing now is that the EU has so many complex rules and fees that no one country has yet to use......so as Brexit unfolds, UK is the first to partake of the exit rules.........and it is a bitter pill they have to swallow..........harsh penalties...........BUT OF COURSE, the UK can say BLOW OFF WE WILL NOT FOLLOW THESE EXIT RULES and then let the EU courts (Really?) decide their fate............Theresa May is hard but they need a guy like Donald Trump who is so harsh and brassy that he cares about what no one says to him.........make the UK Great Again...... MUKGA

Nobody needs a racist, sexist idiot

[Air Smiles]

8 hours ago, rixalex said:

No, stop voting until the outcome of the last referendum has actually been upheld, acted upon and been given a chance to work or fail. Then call for another referendum, if that is your prerogative.

 

One referendum at a time, or else let's just have one every week why not.

 

Errmm, the last referendum was nearly 2 years ago not last week.  If its possible to have 3 general elections in 3 years I don't see why we cant have 2 referendums, especially over something so important and where the ground has shifted so much.

[soalbundy]

20 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

No, the EU is the Fourth Reich.

Oh dear but perhaps you will recover

[Timbob]

Just now, Air Smiles said:

 

Errmm, the last referendum was nearly 2 years ago not last week.  If its possible to have 3 general elections in 3 years I don't see why we cant have 2 referendums, especially over something so important.

I voted to remain and would do so again, but we can't have another referendum before Brexit is given a chance. You're either a democrat or you aren't. Brexit has to play-out and it needs to respect both sides (it was almost 50/50 after all). Also, if there were to be another referendum tomorrow then I think the result would be the same.

[soalbundy]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

It is hard enough being Scottish, but everybody forgets about the poor Welsh :/

and so they should, wandering around the hills singing all the time.

[Air Smiles]

4 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Sameold.

Oh well, I can put a coherent argument together complete with paragraphs and other punctuation whilst you are struggling to add a space in a two word sentence which says nothing.

[soalbundy]

33 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Why do you think green belts were created then? Some of you lot seem happy to destroy the UK completely!

The UK doesn't need any help from us,they are doing a great job all by themselves

[nauseus]

8 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Well I don't buy the German Auto Industry worry about brexit

 

I don't buy the cheap food and damn the consequences line

 

What's next sovereignty?

Of course. The prime reason and the main reason - so important because I don't think that referendums like this will even be an option for EU members in  the future.  

[dunroaming]

6 minutes ago, Timbob said:

I don't see it that way. He respects the result. He is after all a euro-skeptic. Not all leave voters want to stop trading with Europe and a customs union is vital. Of course, the way the right-wing media portray his speech will have some influence, but there always smearing him so what's new.

 

 

I don't think that Corbyn is the answer but I would always respect your point of view.  His speech did cause a stir and after it businesses and others backed his point of being in a custom union of some sort.   Then Davis had to come out to defend the no customs union position but few bought his argument.  It has people asking questions  and that is essential rather than just accepting the governments rhetoric.

 

Brexit is a living, breathing thing, it is NOT party political.  Remainers and leavers in all parties.  For people to stupidly keep trying to blame the "left" or the "right" are not understanding it at all.

 

I think the pivotal point is the Irish border issue and that is currently a real sticking point.  If that can be agreed by both sides then we may be able to move forward with other negotiations.  Without it being agreed then I cannot see how any further progress can be made.

[Air Smiles]

20 minutes ago, Timbob said:

I voted to remain and would do so again, but we can't have another referendum before Brexit is given a chance. You're either a democrat or you aren't. Brexit has to play-out and it needs to respect both sides (it was almost 50/50 after all). Also, if there were to be another referendum tomorrow then I think the result would be the same.

 

I would agree, but only if there was some hard supporting data.

 

Believing in democracy doesn't mean we have to believe in it blindly, what if the referendum was around the age of consent being lowered to 8 years old, would we still be demanding the will of the people respected?

 

Lets have a more relevant example, say you and your family have a family vote and decided to sell up and buy another house, 55% of your family vote to sell so you start making arrangements, after some time and more research it looks like buying this house might most likely make your situation worse involving a massive hit on your finances, in fact you can't find any data from reliable sources at all which says otherwise ....would you really be saying but we must give this new house a chance because just over half the family voted for it?  I don't think most reasonable people would go ahead or at the very least have another family vote in the light of the new information available. 

 

If we then scale this up to an entire country of 70 million people then the gigantic folly of 'Brexit should be given a chance. You're either a democrat or you aren't.' should be obvious.

[Timbob]

6 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

I don't think that Corbyn is the answer but I would always respect your point of view.  His speech did cause a stir and after it businesses and others backed his point of being in a custom union of some sort.   Then Davis had to come out to defend the no customs union position but few bought his argument.  It has people asking questions  and that is essential rather than just accepting the governments rhetoric.

 

Brexit is a living, breathing thing, it is NOT party political.  Remainers and leavers in all parties.  For people to stupidly keep trying to blame the "left" or the "right" are not understanding it at all.

 

I think the pivotal point is the Irish border issue and that is currently a real sticking point.  If that can be agreed by both sides then we may be able to move forward with other negotiations.  Without it being agreed then I cannot see how any further progress can be made.

Well said. Yes, lots of people (including many on this thread) seem to think the "left" are all remainders when this is simply untrue. They forget people like George Galloway. 

 

You're bang on about the NI issue. I saw Bozo the clown was comparing it to the London congestion charge yesterday. This is the problem - we need a change of government ASAP. 

[AGareth2]

enough is enough

the bully boy bureaucrats in Brussels

shouldn't threaten

be nice and we will honour our agreements

be nasty and  they can sing for their supper

we are leaving

[Timbob]

7 minutes ago, Air Smiles said:

 

I would agree, but only if there was some hard supporting data.

 

Believing in democracy doesn't mean we have to believe in it blindly, what if the referendum was around the age of consent being lowered to 8 years old, would we still be demanding the will of the people respected?

 

Lets have a more relevant example, say you and your family have a family vote and decided to sell up and buy another house, 55% of your family vote to sell so you start making arrangements, after some time and more research it looks like buying this house might most likely make your situation worse involving a massive hit on your finances, in fact you can't find any data from reliable sources at all which says otherwise ....would you really be saying but we must give this new house a chance because just over half the family voted for it?  I don't think most reasonable people would go ahead or at the very least have another family vote in the light of the new information avaialble. 

 

If we then scale this up to an entire country of 70 million people then the gigantic folly of 'Brexit should be given a chance. You're either a democrat or you aren't.' should be obvious.

You cannot compare buying a house with Brexit. People constantly use home finance as an analogy for government spending and it's stupid.  

 

You don't like the result. Neither do I. It's a mess. But we do not know the outcome as Brexit has not happened yet. A lot of predictions from the remain camp have not come to pass. Of course, now the same people say "but Brexit hasn't happened yet", but they were still wrong about the immediate impact. So, it has to play out. I fear many people will suffer from the financial fallout, but I'm a democrat so it has to happen.  

[boomerangutang]

4 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

If it doesn't happen, there will most likely be unprecedented acts of terror in mainland England and against the EU. Once all pretense of democracy has been dispensed with, the fighting, killing and bombing will start.

I don't agree.  That's the type of warning that Hun Sen put out to spook Cambodians away from the idea of bringing Khmer Rouge officers (some of whom were his buddies) to the dock to answer for their prior carnage. 

 

I know Brexit is completely different from Khmer Rouge, but to warn of 'acts of terror' and civil-war-type carnage (If Brexit was nullified) is over the top.   There would be protests in UK if Brexit didn't happen, ....but not much more.

 

[dunroaming]

2 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

enough is enough

the bully boy bureaucrats in Brussels

shouldn't threaten

be nice and we will honour our agreements

be nasty and  they can sing for their supper

we are leaving

This is not cowboys and Indians.  It is not about good guys and bad guys.  Both the EU and the British government did not want Brexit at all but the majority (only just) of voters asked for it so they have to try to deliver it with as little damage as they can.  That is where we are.  Damage limitation for both sides

[oldlakey]

9 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Maybe there's a housing shortage because the builders aren't building, instead, they're not releasing land from their land banks in order to maintain high prices and profit margins.

 

And maybe there's a shortage because NIMBY's won't allow planning permission on the green belt.

 

And maybe there's a housing shortage because landowners aren't releasing land and government isn't making them sell.

 

Really, immigrants in the UK have absolutely zero to do with this subject other than your personal racist agenda.

 

Unless they live in a cardboard box then they are involved in the housing shortage

[oldlakey]

11 hours ago, Air Smiles said:

 

So stop voting because you got the result you wanted?

No we have stopped voting because the Ballot Boxes are now closed

And the winner has been declared