PM Prayut urges all parties concerned to help solve prostitution problem

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, kevozman1 said:

Assumptions and wrong on both counts i'm afraid.

 

Even forgetting the bars/gogo bars (that still dominate many centrally placed sois around the city) it's hard to ignore the mile long line of hookers along beach road at night and the multiple large soapies on Second Road. 

 

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Other than a few rather sad gogos on Soi 6/7/8 and Yamato/ Post Office/ Boystown area, the only gogo of significance is Tahitian Queen that is not in Walking St area or LK Metro. Hardly "dominating" but even if they were, so what? Is that a problem?

Last time I looked there were 2 soapies on Second, and almost opposite each other. Hardly an overabundance, and even if there were, so what? Would that be a problem?

Hookers on Beach, yes, but spread out and hardly any north of Central Rd. Not exactly a "problem" for any that are not interested.

 

I fail to see why bars are so unsettling given it's a party town, and people know that before they set foot in the place. It's like being critical that Las Vegas has casinos and gambling.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 10:34 AM, lkv said:

I am still young (sort of, mid 30s), and the last thing I'd do is find the love of my life in a bar (with the staff). The lower the quality, the more financially oriented it becomes.

 

When you say "please hand the money" you kind of sound like them :) Kind of, because they don't say please. :)

That's your prerogative, but what is wrong with those that do look for the love of their life in a bar doing so?

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 10:42 AM, Thaidream said:

It will never be ended but it could be controlled.  Bangkok is more or less controlled in which certain areas are available to foreigners for their 'entertainment'.  It is less obvious on the streets and much of the night 'trade' has been moved off Sukhumvit to the side streets.

 

Pattaya is very uncontrolled and in your face.  The trade needs to be controlled so both mongers and families can enjoy a trip there (not to mentioning cleaning up the beach and sea).

Places like Walking Street and Soi 6 and 8 need to have a viable police presence and a sign placed at the end of the Soi indicating one is entering an 'entertainment zone so families can avoid the scene.

 

Control would bring more families into these places and provide more opportunities for employment in more stable occupations for ladies or near ladies. In addition- the police would be in a better position to respond to bar fights; overcharging; theft etc. if they limited any expansion to defined areas .

 

IMHO the General was mostly upset over the fact that Thailand and prostitution was mentioned in the same breath by a government official of another country causing Thailand to allegedly 'lose face'. 

Why should Pattaya do anything to become a "family" destination? It was a boy's fun place long before the first western family ever turned up. Families have hundreds of other, less fun places to have their holidays. There is NOTHING about Pattaya that would attract families- disgusting beach with toxic water, broken infrastructure, unsafe traffic, crime etc etc etc. The ONLY reason that families come there is because dishonest travel agents portray the place as being something it's not, and large multinational corporations built resorts there.

Families shouldn't be allowed to go to Pattaya, not the other way around.

 

BTW, if anyone that passes Soi 6 from either end can't work out what it is, they must be incredibly stupid.

 

Bangkok is more or less controlled in which certain areas are available to foreigners for their 'entertainment'.  It is less obvious on the streets and much of the night 'trade' has been moved off Sukhumvit to the side streets.

I have to assume you haven't been in Bkk very long then. In the 90s there was no "trade" on Sukhumvit, and it was possible to pass by Soi 4 and not even know Nana Plaza was there. The ''trade" only moved to Sukhumvit after the government made the bars close earlier. I think that was a Thaksin initiative.

Soooo, in the complete opposite of what you claim, the "trade" is MORE obvious NOW than it used to be last century.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 11:04 AM, NanLaew said:

Pattaya was not "created as an r&r zone for the US". The overwhelming majority of US military that came to Thailand for R&R during the American War never left Bangkok.

 

I think the Germans can lay claim to 'discovering' Pattaya before anyone's war was over.

 

 

I actually visited a GI R & R bar in Bkk, and even I was shocked at the place. In those days there were pimps. The scene now is far better.

However, I do think troops on R & R stayed in Pattaya. The ones that didn't were those stationed at U Tapao, which some have claimed happened. They apparently had their own bar complex by the base.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 11:27 AM, spidermike007 said:

Wait a minute. You have 100 bottles on this list, ranging from 1200 baht to 10,000 baht per bottle, and NOBODY who works here knows anything about the wine? Are you serious? We all just looked at each other, and got up and walked out.

Which, if all wine drinking tourists did, would soon end the tax. That they don't says more about them than the Thais.

 

On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 11:27 AM, spidermike007 said:

There are countless things the government could be doing, if they wanted to attract the high quality tourists.

IMO every "high quality" tourist could vanish from Thai shores and it would make almost zero difference to the vast majority of Thais. It would however, upset the multi national hotel chains, till they reoriented to a different market. The 4 5* hotels with a 5 minute walk of me in Chiang Mai cater mainly to the Chinese bus tours.

Plenty of places in LOS cater for the "people with money" ( which I prefer to call "high quality" tourists, as IMO they are anything but "high quality" even if they have loadsacash and think they are special ), but one has to look for them. There is no need for the government to be jumping in, as governments never do anything well. Best left to private enterprise.

The one thing they have done that probably works is the "elite visa".

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 11:39 AM, Kimber said:

She (and the others) is quite open about how she enjoys sex with farang guys, 

But but but, the wowsers will never accept that a Thai woman can possibly enjoy sex "for money". In their made up minds it's just something horrible they do to put food in the mouths of their starving children.

Problem is they confuse western women with Thais.

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[smotherb]

4 hours ago, NanLaew said:

As you pointed out, you came to Pattaya in 1967 as an alternative to what? Bangkok. That's where the full-service option existed.

 

The post I was responding to incorrectly inferred that Pattaya's existence was solely due to the need for you guys to water your horses.

 

I agree with you inasmuch as no particular band of foreigners brought sex to the beach; the entrepreneurial Thais managed that on their own. I never claimed that the Germans invented the sex bit but I did suggest that, like yourself, they were only here for the beach side r&r and the ladies just started showing up.

 

FWIW, there's a distinct reason why there's still a large German presence in the Wong Amat area. I first darkened the Pattaya shores about 10 years after you and the joke about German beach towels on the poolside sun loungers BEFORE breakfast was already old.

I do not remember the specifics of the options available. If I remember correctly, two friends and I took a car and driver from Bangkok. We chose Pattaya because of a recommendation by an American named Wheeler who ran a restaurant and guest house--called the "Wheel something".  As I recall, the days were filled with booze and the nights with women, but there was not much else there; several bars, mostly out over the water, and a few hotels and guesthouses. Although I continued to visit Thailand, I did not return to Pattaya until 1974; it was much bigger then.

 

I do not recall meeting any Germans there in '67 or '74, but I saw them in Bangkok and Hua Hin in those days. It was in the mid to late '70s, during my Iran days that I saw Germans in Pattaya. I do remember an Englishman named Dave who ran a German restaurant in Soi 4 Nana Bangkok during the early days, does that count?

 

 

 

[Justfine]

13 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Which, if all wine drinking tourists did, would soon end the tax. That they don't says more about them than the Thais.

 

IMO every "high quality" tourist could vanish from Thai shores and it would make almost zero difference to the vast majority of Thais. It would however, upset the multi national hotel chains, till they reoriented to a different market. The 4 5* hotels with a 5 minute walk of me in Chiang Mai cater mainly to the Chinese bus tours.

Plenty of places in LOS cater for the "people with money" ( which I prefer to call "high quality" tourists, as IMO they are anything but "high quality" even if they have loadsacash and think they are special ), but one has to look for them. There is no need for the government to be jumping in, as governments never do anything well. Best left to private enterprise.

The one thing they have done that probably works is the "elite visa".

 

 

Thousands of job losses.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 12:01 PM, Thaidream said:

Actually- most of the bars and GoGo clubs are supplied with girls by agents and recruiters.

You really need to PROVE that statement, as I do not believe that is true.

Girls go to work in a farang bar where they have a friend or relative, or they just turn up and look around for a place to work in.

Sometimes a girl from the village that is already working in a bar may go home and tell them about it, and other girls may follow them back.

 

If the girls were "supplied" to a particular bar or gogo they would be contracted to that bar, and they aren't. They can leave and go work somewhere else if they want.

 

You are, IMO, talking about the agents that place girls overseas, which is nothing to do with this thread.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 11:28 AM, kevozman1 said:

Please.. whilst I don't agree with people who grossly exaggerate the sex tourism figures in regards to GDP, if there is one place where the shit would hit the fan after a serious crackdown on prostitution, then it is certainly Pattaya. I certainly would not want to be around to see the aftermath.

I disagree. The scene is but a pale resemblance of what it once was when it was a large component of a small town. Now, it is a business struggling to fill too many bars while the girls are going on line.

It could become something like Hua Hin with a very small scene and it would not be as severe as you think for the larger city that has a very small area actively involved in the night life.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 11:28 AM, smotherb said:

While I am not privy to the statistics; I do know I first came to Pattaya in 1967, while stationed in Vietnam. I was not alone and Pattaya was still in its infancy. However, I think we all fool ourselves claiming any Westerner created sex entertainment areas in Thailand.  

In 1967 was it notorious among US troops in Vietnam as a place to go for fun? I can find no evidence now, that it was.

In fact, there is very little about the early days of Pattaya, other than it was a beach with a fishing village till about the late 60s.

The internet does NOT have the answer to everything.

I'd certainly be interested if someone started a thread that was actually there then.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 11:36 AM, Thaidream said:

The difference between the Foreign sex scene and the Thai sex scene is that the Thai Scene is much more discrete. Most foreigners would not know where to find the Thai sex scene unless they have lived in Thailand a long time or can speak and understand Thai and visit those areas. I once went with my step son to a Thai only restaurant in a remote border village. The names of the available ladies and prices were imprinted on the 'menu'.  

 

The Phuket and Pattaya sex scene for foreigners is very unregulated; in your face; and allowed to move around mostly at will.  These are the images that the World sees of Thailand.. The GoGo scene; the scantily clad lasses out front; the beer bar crowd etc.  They need to enforce some zoning so the not interested in sex tourist trade does not clash with the mongers -It appears North Pattaya is mostly being developed that way and as bar rental-lease renewal prices rise- relocation or closure takes place and a natural culling occurs.  I would expect more relocation towards Jomtien just as relocation in Bangkok is moving more towards mid Sukhumvit with the eventual closure of Nana Plaza and possibly Cowboy.

They need to enforce some zoning so the not interested in sex tourist trade does not clash with the mongers

Why?

There is nothing in Pattaya that the "not interested in sex" tourist can not find elsewhere. They should go other places and leave Pattaya alone.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 11:37 AM, Oziex1 said:

Sort the economy and get people real jobs, should have an impact on the situation. 

Sure about that?

Prostitution in NZ is legal and they apparently have no trouble getting women to do it there. Not exactly a country known for poverty.

[tifino]

jeez it'd take a big bed for all parties to all cum together for a big orgy

 

Big orgy consumes all available girlies, and voila!   -  no prostitution possible 

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, PAIBKK said:

In Amsterdam the Red Light district is only having tourists taking pictures. If Thailand would legalize cannabis it would more look like it. Coffeeshops in Amsterdam are loaded with tourists.

 

So it will be the end of Walking Street, Soi Cowboy, Nana and PatPong. No more "Me so h*rny, me love you long time" will be ending Thailand's tourism, but the high quality Chinese tourists will keep coming to World's high class resort town called Pattaya. 

They could close every farang bar in LOS and it won't make any difference. Mongers will just arrange a lady for fun before arriving by using the internet.

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, EnlightenedAtheist said:

I do not recall seeing Africans doing business in those areas in the past. Just observing.

Can't be very observant then. Been in their area in Bkk for a very long time. 

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, dunroaming said:

If you have kids and have a brain you don't take them to places like Pattaya.  It is an adult playground and is exactly what certain adults want.  To try to change something because it isn't suitable for children is the wrong way.   Just make it plain in brochures and advertising and then leave Pattaya alone.  You will not drive out prostitution but you may well drive in more underground and then you can end up with no checks and balances at all.

IMO any "family" that goes to Pattaya and then complains about it has only themselves to blame. It's not like putting Pattaya into google doesn't bring up anything about prostitution.

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, Pasadena said:

You are wrong. For the healthy part of the country, which is the majority, this is a problem. Just think of all the problems faced by the Thai in terms of visa when they go to the West.

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The Thais, in every part of the country have a thriving red light scene. 

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, newnative said:

The public development  of Pattaya is lagging far behind the successful efforts of private industry.

Which will cause all the plans to turn sow's ear Pattaya into a silk purse to fail.

Hurrah!

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, captspectre said:

3,000 baht at night? that's a tourist for you! always inflating the price! be glad when low season comes.

 

Don't you know that during low season prices go up? It's because some Thais think that when they can't make enough money because their price is too high, the answer is to put the price up.

Unfortunately, there is always some mug around to pay the ridiculous price, so they think they are on the right track.

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, Justfine said:

Since when does anyone "make love"?

Quite right. A meaningless term invented by writers of women's romantic novels.

Sex is about lust, which itself is a genetic imperative to ensure survival of the species.

Ask any man been married longer than a year if he still gets it as often as he did before the first child arrived.

As Prince Charles once said about love- "whatever that means".

[Justfine]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Quite right. A meaningless term invented by writers of women's romantic novels.

Sex is about lust, which itself is a genetic imperative to ensure survival of the species.

Ask any man been married longer than a year if he still gets it as often as he did before the first child arrived.

As Prince Charles once said about love- "whatever that means".

Yes. Never heard any normal person use that phrase. 

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, jenny2017 said:

Not all want prostitutes. Even when free

Actually, I agree. While in a Chiang Mai barbeer some time ago, a BG offered a night of free "fun" in exchange for food ( but still paying the bar fine ), probably due to having had no customers for a month ( it really is exceptionally quiet in low season up here ). Unfortunately, to say she was unattractive would be insufficient to describe her. So I declined her offer.

However, I can only hope for some lovely creature to make a similar offer in the future, but I suspect I will be disappointed.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, badischer Barde said:

Easiest way by far would be decently paid jobs.

 

When you earn 300 baht a day (8 to 12 hours) without, and 500 baht with an university degree, but easily 5000 baht with prostitution, it might actually be the economically better solution to be a bargirl for 2 years and open your own business after that rather than working for two years to earn money for university, studying for 4 years, and then get an slightly less underpaid job.

 

And for those left with a kid by a deadbeat dad, or with parents there might not even be a choice.

 

So... best way to fight prostitution is to offer viable alternatives, rather than prosecution.

 

easily 5000 baht with prostitution

In their dreams.

Can't discuss the specifics on here, but would be far, far less than that for the vast majority of BGs.

Perhaps for some exceptionally beautiful free lancer working the escort market, but not a normal income.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, xtrnuno41 said:

No jobs which pay to support families.

Heard about 4 government jobs not even close to Bangkok, it gave 2500 solicitors !!

The PM probably has no clue what is happening in his country or just dont care, as long as rich Thai are in power.

 

Those girls support whole families, it is not for fun, but just for the need to survive, to "live". 

Now he feels embarrassed ? It started long time ago when American soldiers came to Pattaya.

And not to forget it was normal for a Thai man to have young mistresses besides a wife. And ofcourse he paid them.

So nothing really changed, the girls and families are still poor and try to survive, still no jobs with decent money to live.

But hey it is not any way different then civilized USA. 

   

So leaves at least again 2496 educated prostitutes?

It started long time ago when American soldiers came to Pattaya.

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Try centuries ago.

 

So leaves at least again 2496 educated prostitutes?

Where on earth do you get a specific figure like that? No one knows.

 

[Lacessit]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

easily 5000 baht with prostitution

In their dreams.

Can't discuss the specifics on here, but would be far, far less than that for the vast majority of BGs.

Perhaps for some exceptionally beautiful free lancer working the escort market, but not a normal income.

You'd be surprised. Some bargirls are making that with multiple short-times in one night.

I can remember one very innocent looking bar girl, mid-twenties, who worked in Singapore and was averaging 10 customers a day. She was coming to Chiang Mai to rest up from that, with 2-3 short-times a night.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

You'd be surprised. Some bargirls are making that with multiple short-times in one night.

I can remember one very innocent looking bar girl, mid-twenties, who worked in Singapore and was averaging 10 customers a day. She was coming to Chiang Mai to rest up from that, with 2-3 short-times a night.

We are not allowed to get into specifics, but a girl capable of getting multiple ST a day that was not working in a brothel would need to be exceptionally attractive and would only be able to do so for a relatively limited period.

[Justfine]

5 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

You'd be surprised. Some bargirls are making that with multiple short-times in one night.

I can remember one very innocent looking bar girl, mid-twenties, who worked in Singapore and was averaging 10 customers a day. She was coming to Chiang Mai to rest up from that, with 2-3 short-times a night.

Rich Chinese.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Who are you trying to kid? The motivated girls/women are heading off to places such as Dubai, Saudi Arabia and South Korea where they can earn far more on their back than anywhere in Thailand. It's not a coincidence they are also the most beautiful from poor villages.

They are not all success stories either. Some have their passports stolen, and become trapped.

I have known 2 BGs that went "overseas" and were never heard from again. It's a risky business, depending on where they go.

[Bikeman93]

The problem is the only way the authorities get a cut is by making it illegal and charging fines