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BANGKOK 23 April 2019 19:35

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PM Prayut urges all parties concerned to help solve prostitution problem

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On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 10:33 AM, AsianAtHeart said:

There are perhaps a few here on TV who have more experience with Thailand.  I've only been around the country for more than a couple decades.  Of course, while post count might be an indicator of one's loquaciousness, it does nothing to indicate one's experience.  If it's any help to your understanding of my perspective, I am conversationally fluent in Thai and am literate in the language.  It's good you prefaced your statement with "apparent."  Not all things, however, are as they appear on the surface.

 

Eliminating prostitution will not happen if the modus operandi is to simply shut down the brothels.  The economic forces underpinning the problem must be resolved.  I remember the day in Thailand when a farm laborer would work over 10 hours in the sun for 100 baht per day.  Last I heard, I think the minimum is nearer to 250-300 baht per day for such workers.  But if this is insufficient to feed, clothe, and educate the family, much less pay for extras like medical care, the temptation to sacrifice one's own good for the good of the family increases.

 

Many years ago I attended the funeral in northern Thailand of a nine-year-old boy whose mother had given him HIV at his birth.  She had already preceded him in death.  Is it necessary to say how she acquired it?

Well done for replying.

Of course, while post count might be an indicator of one's loquaciousness, it does nothing to indicate one's experience. I've only been around the country for more than a couple decades. 

Well if length of experience of LOS is of significance ( I don't think it is ), I've been involved with LOS for over 4 decades.

However, it is possible to remain in LOS for far longer than 20 years and know nothing about the scene other than what one reads in the media, which almost never tells the truth about it. The agenda is obvious.

Soooooo, what qualifies you to speak authoritatively about it?

It does puzzle me though that one with so few posts would seize on this as something to get involved in when LOS has so many problems of far greater import than a few girls/ boys having it off with farangs for some cash. How about getting involved with the exploitation of sweat shop workers, child exploitation ( not sexual ), forced sex in brothels that are NOT for farangs, poor educational standards, abused maids, corruption and if nothing else the plight of those farm labourers you are concerned about. In the larger picture, a few girls using their only asset to get more money than they could in a sweat shop is insignificant, yet to many, it assumes a far greater importance than it should.

 

Eliminating prostitution will not happen if the modus operandi is to simply shut down the brothels.

No disagreement there, but brothels play NO part of the farang scene. I would point out that I know next to nothing about the THAI scene, not being a user of that scene.

It could be that you are referring to the Thai scene, rather than the farang scene, but that is not a subject about which many on here can speak authoritatively, and so, as far as I'm concerned this thread is about the farang scene. Of course, others can address that scene if they wish.

 

But if this is insufficient to feed, clothe, and educate the family, much less pay for extras like medical care, the temptation to sacrifice one's own good for the good of the family increases.

Worth mentioning that there are many millions of adult Thai women that never get involved with the scene, either Thai or farang, no matter how dire their circumstances. The number that do is not great, proportionate to population, despite the more lurid accusations by the British gutter press.

 

I attended the funeral in northern Thailand of a nine-year-old boy whose mother had given him HIV at his birth.  She had already preceded him in death.  Is it necessary to say how she acquired it?

Actually yes. That proves nothing about prostitution as you don't say if she was a prostitute or not, and if she was, did she work with farangs or Thais?

Without knowing the facts, I can say it was probably from a Thai. 

A guy called Meechai carried out a campaign to encourage Thais to use condoms to combat the spread of HIV. She almost certainly knew about condoms.

To continue would be pure speculation.

 

BTW, an unintended consequence of eliminating prostitution for farangs ( it's never going to happen for Thais ) would be a severe downturn in the number of farangs marrying Thai farm girls with a consequent severe reduction in the amount of money going to poor farming villages.

 

PS. If the scene in Pattaya the last time I went to stay in Pattaya is indicative, the scene is dying anyway, with bored bargirls too busy with their machine to tout for customers, high prices and increasing pressure from the authorities driving away customers.

Where the scene is functioning well though, is on line, and good luck to the government on stopping that, short of arresting any farang with a Thai girl in the street on suspicion of doing something enjoyable.

 

 

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12 hours ago, kevozman1 said:

Assumptions and wrong on both counts i'm afraid.

 

Even forgetting the bars/gogo bars (that still dominate many centrally placed sois around the city) it's hard to ignore the mile long line of hookers along beach road at night and the multiple large soapies on Second Road. 

 

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Other than a few rather sad gogos on Soi 6/7/8 and Yamato/ Post Office/ Boystown area, the only gogo of significance is Tahitian Queen that is not in Walking St area or LK Metro. Hardly "dominating" but even if they were, so what? Is that a problem?

Last time I looked there were 2 soapies on Second, and almost opposite each other. Hardly an overabundance, and even if there were, so what? Would that be a problem?

Hookers on Beach, yes, but spread out and hardly any north of Central Rd. Not exactly a "problem" for any that are not interested.

 

I fail to see why bars are so unsettling given it's a party town, and people know that before they set foot in the place. It's like being critical that Las Vegas has casinos and gambling.

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On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 10:34 AM, lkv said:

I am still young (sort of, mid 30s), and the last thing I'd do is find the love of my life in a bar (with the staff). The lower the quality, the more financially oriented it becomes.

 

When you say "please hand the money" you kind of sound like them :) Kind of, because they don't say please. :)

That's your prerogative, but what is wrong with those that do look for the love of their life in a bar doing so?

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On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 10:42 AM, Thaidream said:

It will never be ended but it could be controlled.  Bangkok is more or less controlled in which certain areas are available to foreigners for their 'entertainment'.  It is less obvious on the streets and much of the night 'trade' has been moved off Sukhumvit to the side streets.

 

Pattaya is very uncontrolled and in your face.  The trade needs to be controlled so both mongers and families can enjoy a trip there (not to mentioning cleaning up the beach and sea).

Places like Walking Street and Soi 6 and 8 need to have a viable police presence and a sign placed at the end of the Soi indicating one is entering an 'entertainment zone so families can avoid the scene.

 

Control would bring more families into these places and provide more opportunities for employment in more stable occupations for ladies or near ladies. In addition- the police would be in a better position to respond to bar fights; overcharging; theft etc. if they limited any expansion to defined areas .

 

IMHO the General was mostly upset over the fact that Thailand and prostitution was mentioned in the same breath by a government official of another country causing Thailand to allegedly 'lose face'. 

Why should Pattaya do anything to become a "family" destination? It was a boy's fun place long before the first western family ever turned up. Families have hundreds of other, less fun places to have their holidays. There is NOTHING about Pattaya that would attract families- disgusting beach with toxic water, broken infrastructure, unsafe traffic, crime etc etc etc. The ONLY reason that families come there is because dishonest travel agents portray the place as being something it's not, and large multinational corporations built resorts there.

Families shouldn't be allowed to go to Pattaya, not the other way around.

 

BTW, if anyone that passes Soi 6 from either end can't work out what it is, they must be incredibly stupid.

 

Bangkok is more or less controlled in which certain areas are available to foreigners for their 'entertainment'.  It is less obvious on the streets and much of the night 'trade' has been moved off Sukhumvit to the side streets.

I have to assume you haven't been in Bkk very long then. In the 90s there was no "trade" on Sukhumvit, and it was possible to pass by Soi 4 and not even know Nana Plaza was there. The ''trade" only moved to Sukhumvit after the government made the bars close earlier. I think that was a Thaksin initiative.

Soooo, in the complete opposite of what you claim, the "trade" is MORE obvious NOW than it used to be last century.

 

 

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On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 11:04 AM, NanLaew said:

Pattaya was not "created as an r&r zone for the US". The overwhelming majority of US military that came to Thailand for R&R during the American War never left Bangkok.

 

I think the Germans can lay claim to 'discovering' Pattaya before anyone's war was over.

 

 

I actually visited a GI R & R bar in Bkk, and even I was shocked at the place. In those days there were pimps. The scene now is far better.

However, I do think troops on R & R stayed in Pattaya. The ones that didn't were those stationed at U Tapao, which some have claimed happened. They apparently had their own bar complex by the base.

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On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 11:27 AM, spidermike007 said:

Wait a minute. You have 100 bottles on this list, ranging from 1200 baht to 10,000 baht per bottle, and NOBODY who works here knows anything about the wine? Are you serious? We all just looked at each other, and got up and walked out.

Which, if all wine drinking tourists did, would soon end the tax. That they don't says more about them than the Thais.

 

On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 11:27 AM, spidermike007 said:

There are countless things the government could be doing, if they wanted to attract the high quality tourists.

IMO every "high quality" tourist could vanish from Thai shores and it would make almost zero difference to the vast majority of Thais. It would however, upset the multi national hotel chains, till they reoriented to a different market. The 4 5* hotels with a 5 minute walk of me in Chiang Mai cater mainly to the Chinese bus tours.

Plenty of places in LOS cater for the "people with money" ( which I prefer to call "high quality" tourists, as IMO they are anything but "high quality" even if they have loadsacash and think they are special ), but one has to look for them. There is no need for the government to be jumping in, as governments never do anything well. Best left to private enterprise.

The one thing they have done that probably works is the "elite visa".

 

 

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On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 11:39 AM, Kimber said:

She (and the others) is quite open about how she enjoys sex with farang guys, 

But but but, the wowsers will never accept that a Thai woman can possibly enjoy sex "for money". In their made up minds it's just something horrible they do to put food in the mouths of their starving children.

Problem is they confuse western women with Thais.

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4 hours ago, NanLaew said:

As you pointed out, you came to Pattaya in 1967 as an alternative to what? Bangkok. That's where the full-service option existed.

 

The post I was responding to incorrectly inferred that Pattaya's existence was solely due to the need for you guys to water your horses.

 

I agree with you inasmuch as no particular band of foreigners brought sex to the beach; the entrepreneurial Thais managed that on their own. I never claimed that the Germans invented the sex bit but I did suggest that, like yourself, they were only here for the beach side r&r and the ladies just started showing up.

 

FWIW, there's a distinct reason why there's still a large German presence in the Wong Amat area. I first darkened the Pattaya shores about 10 years after you and the joke about German beach towels on the poolside sun loungers BEFORE breakfast was already old.

I do not remember the specifics of the options available. If I remember correctly, two friends and I took a car and driver from Bangkok. We chose Pattaya because of a recommendation by an American named Wheeler who ran a restaurant and guest house--called the "Wheel something".  As I recall, the days were filled with booze and the nights with women, but there was not much else there; several bars, mostly out over the water, and a few hotels and guesthouses. Although I continued to visit Thailand, I did not return to Pattaya until 1974; it was much bigger then.

 

I do not recall meeting any Germans there in '67 or '74, but I saw them in Bangkok and Hua Hin in those days. It was in the mid to late '70s, during my Iran days that I saw Germans in Pattaya. I do remember an Englishman named Dave who ran a German restaurant in Soi 4 Nana Bangkok during the early days, does that count?

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Which, if all wine drinking tourists did, would soon end the tax. That they don't says more about them than the Thais.

 

IMO every "high quality" tourist could vanish from Thai shores and it would make almost zero difference to the vast majority of Thais. It would however, upset the multi national hotel chains, till they reoriented to a different market. The 4 5* hotels with a 5 minute walk of me in Chiang Mai cater mainly to the Chinese bus tours.

Plenty of places in LOS cater for the "people with money" ( which I prefer to call "high quality" tourists, as IMO they are anything but "high quality" even if they have loadsacash and think they are special ), but one has to look for them. There is no need for the government to be jumping in, as governments never do anything well. Best left to private enterprise.

The one thing they have done that probably works is the "elite visa".

 

 

Thousands of job losses.

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On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 12:01 PM, Thaidream said:

Actually- most of the bars and GoGo clubs are supplied with girls by agents and recruiters.

You really need to PROVE that statement, as I do not believe that is true.

Girls go to work in a farang bar where they have a friend or relative, or they just turn up and look around for a place to work in.

Sometimes a girl from the village that is already working in a bar may go home and tell them about it, and other girls may follow them back.

 

If the girls were "supplied" to a particular bar or gogo they would be contracted to that bar, and they aren't. They can leave and go work somewhere else if they want.

 

You are, IMO, talking about the agents that place girls overseas, which is nothing to do with this thread.

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On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 11:28 AM, kevozman1 said:

Please.. whilst I don't agree with people who grossly exaggerate the sex tourism figures in regards to GDP, if there is one place where the shit would hit the fan after a serious crackdown on prostitution, then it is certainly Pattaya. I certainly would not want to be around to see the aftermath.

I disagree. The scene is but a pale resemblance of what it once was when it was a large component of a small town. Now, it is a business struggling to fill too many bars while the girls are going on line.

It could become something like Hua Hin with a very small scene and it would not be as severe as you think for the larger city that has a very small area actively involved in the night life.

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On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 11:28 AM, smotherb said:

While I am not privy to the statistics; I do know I first came to Pattaya in 1967, while stationed in Vietnam. I was not alone and Pattaya was still in its infancy. However, I think we all fool ourselves claiming any Westerner created sex entertainment areas in Thailand.  

In 1967 was it notorious among US troops in Vietnam as a place to go for fun? I can find no evidence now, that it was.

In fact, there is very little about the early days of Pattaya, other than it was a beach with a fishing village till about the late 60s.

The internet does NOT have the answer to everything.

I'd certainly be interested if someone started a thread that was actually there then.

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On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 11:36 AM, Thaidream said:

The difference between the Foreign sex scene and the Thai sex scene is that the Thai Scene is much more discrete. Most foreigners would not know where to find the Thai sex scene unless they have lived in Thailand a long time or can speak and understand Thai and visit those areas. I once went with my step son to a Thai only restaurant in a remote border village. The names of the available ladies and prices were imprinted on the 'menu'.  

 

The Phuket and Pattaya sex scene for foreigners is very unregulated; in your face; and allowed to move around mostly at will.  These are the images that the World sees of Thailand.. The GoGo scene; the scantily clad lasses out front; the beer bar crowd etc.  They need to enforce some zoning so the not interested in sex tourist trade does not clash with the mongers -It appears North Pattaya is mostly being developed that way and as bar rental-lease renewal prices rise- relocation or closure takes place and a natural culling occurs.  I would expect more relocation towards Jomtien just as relocation in Bangkok is moving more towards mid Sukhumvit with the eventual closure of Nana Plaza and possibly Cowboy.

They need to enforce some zoning so the not interested in sex tourist trade does not clash with the mongers

Why?

There is nothing in Pattaya that the "not interested in sex" tourist can not find elsewhere. They should go other places and leave Pattaya alone.

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On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 11:37 AM, Oziex1 said:

Sort the economy and get people real jobs, should have an impact on the situation. 

Sure about that?

Prostitution in NZ is legal and they apparently have no trouble getting women to do it there. Not exactly a country known for poverty.

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jeez it'd take a big bed for all parties to all cum together for a big orgy

 

Big orgy consumes all available girlies, and voila!   -  no prostitution possible :w00t:

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