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PM Prayut urges all parties concerned to help solve prostitution problem


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23 minutes ago, micmichd said:

So what?

Farangs come to Thailand once a year, pick a young Thai lady, promise her a rose garden, and then expect the young lady to stay away from sex with others and wait - maybe forever.

Did you do that when you were young?

 

A Thai lady is free ( that's what "Thai" means), she's not anyone's property, especially not the property of an old Farang butterfly. 

If you have the money, then please hand it over. If you can't afford a relationship with a Thai lady (and her family), then you better stay away. 

I am still young (sort of, mid 30s), and the last thing I'd do is find the love of my life in a bar (with the staff). The lower the quality, the more financially oriented it becomes.

 

When you say "please hand the money" you kind of sound like them :) Kind of, because they don't say please. :)

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6 hours ago, AsianAtHeart said:

So called?  What would you call morals?  Is there such a thing? 

 

To forget one's morals is to contribute to the decadence of society.  More importantly, it is to be willfully ignorant of one's eternal interests--to sacrifice one's hope of eternal existence for a few very short moments of pleasure.  I say it's not worth it.  The eternal prize is worth risking everything for, and giving up everything in the effort, as an olympian does in seeking the gold medal.

 

And that statement right there alludes to the solution.  I think, as unpopular as their efforts have been portrayed, the attempts by the Shinawatras to strengthen the economy among the poorer classes were as much effective toward alleviating the core basis for prostitution as any.  Very few women desire such an ignominious and disagreeable "job."  Providing them better means of supporting themselves and their families would be the most efficient method of elevating the country out of its shame.

 

So can you provide any facts that support the decline in prostitutes and the sex trade under the various Shin governments?

Or did that business flourish, providing they paid their "tributes"?

 

As for morals - what a load of cobblers. Prostitution is known as the world's oldest profession for a reason. Of course you could go back to the high hypocrisy of the 19th Century West where everyone pretended it didn't exist. Or you could adopt an intelligent approach like the Netherlands and Germany and legalize it. 

 

As for religion - I've lived in so called Christian countries, secular states, Muslim and Buddhist countries. And guess what, all had sex industries. Not to mention the high hypocrisy and sexual criminality of the Catholic Church. 

 

Thailand gets an unfair reputation. Many countries are the same, have bars and red light districts. India has a massive prostitution problem, riddled with HIV, trafficking and underage abuse. Last time I was in a bar in Guangdon you couldn't move for South American and East European whores who outnumbered the local workers. Philippines is packed with <deleted>, good Catholic girls, who like their scams too. Thailand has become the nudge nudge wink wink brigades focus of sex tourism whilst the same lot want to pretend their country isn't as bad if not worse.

 

Fighting poverty, increasing education and developing socially aware societies is key to providing more economic choices for the people drawn into the sex trade by financial pressure. But it won't disappear and regulating it provides a much better environment for the oldest profession to perform in.

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It will never be ended but it could be controlled.  Bangkok is more or less controlled in which certain areas are available to foreigners for their 'entertainment'.  It is less obvious on the streets and much of the night 'trade' has been moved off Sukhumvit to the side streets.

 

Pattaya is very uncontrolled and in your face.  The trade needs to be controlled so both mongers and families can enjoy a trip there (not to mentioning cleaning up the beach and sea).

Places like Walking Street and Soi 6 and 8 need to have a viable police presence and a sign placed at the end of the Soi indicating one is entering an 'entertainment zone so families can avoid the scene.

 

Control would bring more families into these places and provide more opportunities for employment in more stable occupations for ladies or near ladies. In addition- the police would be in a better position to respond to bar fights; overcharging; theft etc. if they limited any expansion to defined areas .

 

IMHO the General was mostly upset over the fact that Thailand and prostitution was mentioned in the same breath by a government official of another country causing Thailand to allegedly 'lose face'. 

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Instead, he said authorities responsible for prostitution problem must strictly enforce the law and, at the same time, all parties concerned, especially those in the tourism sector must try to change the image of Pattaya into a destination of quality tourism and not as a sex destination.

 

 

        How good is Prayuth in maths? How long would it take for him to figure out that Thailand would be similar to Burma without prostitution? 

 

     That's not just naive. You can't make up such insanity, can you?

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5 hours ago, Chang_paarp said:

Stop seeing it as a problem and the issue will go away. Most of the population does not see it as a problem.

Done the right way , There's a lot of money to be made from this, regulate and get rid of the fringe money dwellers

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Many people go to Thailand for other reasons: great food, great weather, friendly people in general, learning a new culture, more affordable prices, less of a nanny state than most European countries. Pattaya does have that reputation and some dreary people who usually have never been to Thailand cast the whole country like that! Yawn

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5 hours ago, Somtamnication said:

LOL. More than 40% of the GDP and he wants to shut it down? Reminds me of a Supertramp song "dreamer, nothing but a dreamer"......

Which part of thin air did you pull this figure from? It's not even half that

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5 minutes ago, oyster said:

Pattaya was created as an r&r zone for the US during the Nam offensive. When the war stopped Pattaya started.

Pattaya was not "created as an r&r zone for the US". The overwhelming majority of US military that came to Thailand for R&R during the American War never left Bangkok.

 

I think the Germans can lay claim to 'discovering' Pattaya before anyone's war was over.

 

 

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His personal motto may as well be - I Little P., promise to move Thailand backwards at a breath taking and alarming pace, and never, ever do anything to benefit the common Thai people. I will continue to do everything I can to protect the elite, the super wealthy, the connected, and those in office, either in the police, my administration, or the army. I promise that all that are currently in power, will never be pursued, much less convicted of any crime. 

 

The little man simply does not exist, in my consciousness. He is that irrelevant.

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Another CLASSIC press release from this man. As usual, he just screams of complete and utter carelessness in actually addressing the real issues about why people are forced / decided to enter those types of careers. He loves 'urging all parties', whatever the hell that entails. 

 

Anyone who has ever spent a reasonable amount of time here knows that yes, there is a world renowned sex scene for tourists here. Just like it is in places like Amsterdam. What this charlatan fails to address is that actually, beyond the eyes of the ever so important tourists, there is a HUGE sex scene geared towards locals. This far exceeds places like Pattaya and Phuket where most tourists frequent. Does that part of the culture not need to be cleansed?

 

It is also highly amusing, especially after the recent scandal with the Victoria Secret brothel in Bangkok, that most of the people in senior positions within the police and the government have been involved in covering up such places and allowing them to run completely untouched by the law. That copper who just so happened to have a $6M loan from the brothel owner tells us all we need to know. 

 

I have said it before, but it really is like the blind leading the blind here at the moment. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Chang_paarp said:

Stop seeing it as a problem and the issue will go away. Most of the population does not see it as a problem.

 

The great obscenity in Thailand isn't the sex industry, it's the corrupt military junta governing the country.

 

Prayuts lack of intellect is revealed with his policy of diminishing prostitution,  but insisting on maintaining a denial of why the sex industry is so necessary in Thailand. 

 

Too many single mothers from Issan and other rural provinces, supporting too many fatherless kids; and SFA welfare support. 

 

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Thai people do not see prostitution as something degrading as western people do .  My experience married to a Thai woman , is that Thais don't

" Make Love " as we western people know it ; sex is a quick in and out that can be enjoyable for both , but feelings of " Love " are not a part of it .

Married or not women will have sex for money or gold .  Thailand is caught between two stools , low wages means manufactured products market at a competitive price ; higher wages that provide a decent living means that Thailand will no longer have a competitive edge in the market .

Mothers and fathers are quite happy for their daughter to go to Bangkok , Pattaya or Phuket to be a bar girl or masseuse , in the full knowledge of how the money is earned , sending lots of money home to their impoverished rural region .  In a country town or big village , at the evening market it is quite normal for an elderly man to be propositioned for sex by one or more young girls .  I understand that chains of massage parlours are a massive business , to do away with them will lose a huge amount of tourist business .  Thailand is a cheap destination , ( Sadly ) for the lower end of the market ; Thailand doesn't have what is needed to cater for the upper end of the market , or only on a small scale .  

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5 hours ago, z42 said:

I would dread to think just how much of a gaping hole (no pun intended) shutting down the sex trade would leave.

These foreign mongers, for all their flaws do pump a lot of cash in and this money does go to Thai brass on multiple levels.. Regulate it and actually make it safer for the ladies and gents working in this trade, and make even more cash too, forget so called morals. They certainly don't appear to exist at a government level

Yep, one only has to stand outside the numerous Currency exchange booths in Pattaya or Bangkok to realise how much raw foreign currency is piped into Thailand, I've no doubt that it's a significant bounty to the government.    

 

 

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1 hour ago, Toscano said:

Thai people do not see prostitution as something degrading as western people do .  My experience married to a Thai woman , is that Thais don't

" Make Love " as we western people know it ; sex is a quick in and out that can be enjoyable for both , but feelings of " Love " are not a part of it .

Married or not women will have sex for money or gold .  Thailand is caught between two stools , low wages means manufactured products market at a competitive price ; higher wages that provide a decent living means that Thailand will no longer have a competitive edge in the market .

Mothers and fathers are quite happy for their daughter to go to Bangkok , Pattaya or Phuket to be a bar girl or masseuse , in the full knowledge of how the money is earned , sending lots of money home to their impoverished rural region .  In a country town or big village , at the evening market it is quite normal for an elderly man to be propositioned for sex by one or more young girls .  I understand that chains of massage parlours are a massive business , to do away with them will lose a huge amount of tourist business .  Thailand is a cheap destination , ( Sadly ) for the lower end of the market ; Thailand doesn't have what is needed to cater for the upper end of the market , or only on a small scale .  

 

That was not always the case. Ten years ago Thailand attracted far more higher end tourists than they do these days. But, with the governments continued refusal to address the real issues that plague the nation, and the tourist industry, alot of those higher end western tourists have abandoned Thailand as a destination.

 

Again, this is a situation where nobody is attempting to get to the root of the problem. Of course, in Thai society, it is not particularly popular to look within for the source of the problem.

I think perhaps a few decades from now, they will have tourism classes at university, where they will discuss how Thailand lost the golden egg of Western tourism. Those tourists, unlike most Chinese tourists, spent anywhere from $100 a day, to over $2,000 a day. They brought real money into the country, and in exchange, were treated with utter and complete disregard, scammed, disrespected, and abused. Eventually, most said no more. Thailand thought the country was something very special, and that nobody would ever say no, or find alternative places to visit. The fact is that there are countless other spots, many in this region, that offer better service, more expertise in food and beverage (especially wine service and selection at fair prices, which rich tourists demand), reasonable import duties to sustain a luxury goods market, better training, and far better english skills. Thailand simply lost sight of the big picture, and had very little vision, with regard to big spending tourists, who need to be catered to, instead of scorned.  

 

 So, what happened? The Western tourists started to decline in number, and the genius minds at the TAT decided it was time to "lure" the Chinese. They came. They came in droves. But, they did not spend much money. Hotels, restaurants, gift shops, jewelers, galleries, spas, massage shops, bars, and countless other businesses suffered, and will continue to suffer from this extreme myopia, on the part of the officials in charge of tourism. Oh well. Can't say they were not warned. Zero baht tourists are perhaps the majority who visit Thailand now. Sure, they spend some money in restaurants, and in 7/11. But, that is about it, for some of the super low budget Chinese tours. Not many rich Chinese are not visiting Thailand, for a dozen good reasons. They have too many other options.

 

There are countless things the government could be doing, if they wanted to attract the high quality tourists. The very first thing would be to repeal the anti faring wine bill, that was passed by a few very corrupt senators way back when, to protect an anemic local wine industry. They are losing billions of dollars a year in revenue, that would be had from a 100% wine duty, instead of 460%. The five star hotels would have major wine events, and the entire industry would flourish here.

 

I was recently with a group of friends, and we wanted to order a bottle of wine, at of one of those high end restaurants in the EmQuartier complex. It was Bella Rocca Restaurant. I asked about a 2011 Chianti they had on the list. I was told they were out of stock. I asked about a Barbaresco, at 2,600 baht. Again, out of stock. How about this Nebbiolo? Do you have the 2010, as stated on the list? No, we only have the 2015. OK, what is that wine like? Is it drinking well now? I do not know. Is there anyone here that is familiar with this wine list? No. Sorry sir. Wait a minute. You have 100 bottles on this list, ranging from 1200 baht to 10,000 baht per bottle, and NOBODY who works here knows anything about the wine? Are you serious? We all just looked at each other, and got up and walked out. We realized the restaurant was a pretender. And more than likely the food was marginal at best. It was all dressed up to look like a very nice Italian restaurant. But, it appeared to be only window dressing. High end tourists have little patience for that lack of quality and lack of service. 

 

But again, the lack of vision, combined with a naive, surly, silly, churlish, and ignorant sense of nationalism, bites the country in the butt. And again, who is the loser? The Thai people. 

 It is a real shame, as I find most Thai people to be quite lovely, friendly, warm, helpful and fun to be around. I am sure many feel the same way. But, unfortunately they are cursed with a government that is incompetent, myopic, non-visionary, indifferent, and reckless beyond imagination.

Leading Thailand backwards at an astonishing and alarming pace.

 

No doubt the wine duty was about a small lobby, that paid a senator to pass anti fareng wine legislation, to promote a handful of very inferior domestic wineries. A myopic policy, that staggers the imagination. To think of the hundreds of billions of baht the country is losing every year. If the duty was only 100%, the wine industry here would explode. It would benefit tourism, but attracting a far higher level of tourist, the hotel industry, restaurants, and the people, and ex-pats, who could choose from good wine, at fair prices. As it stands now, a decent bottle here costs in excess of 1,000 baht. And at the restaurants, the prices of good wine is downright silly. I have seen house wines, that cost 1,500 baht, that are available in Los Angeles for $4. Good wines that I pay $30-40 for in LA, cost 6,000 baht here, if you can find them. And who is going to pay that kind of money for a wine that is 80% less overseas? It is a bit like an ignorant hi-so guy paying 15,000,000 baht for a Porsche 911 here, that cost $120,000 in the US. 

 

As far as the xenophobic behavior, I find that surliness confined to the big cities like Bangkok, Pattaya, and tourist areas like Samui and Phuket. And I am often surprised by how cool the locals are in Bangkok, for big city people. Part of the issue is that they are exposed to alot of very low class tourists, who make trouble, are not polite or respectful, are drunk alot, and they get jaded. It is the worst in Samui, Phuket, and Pattaya, in my opinion. In the smaller towns, and out in the country, most people are utterly delightful to be around, and are not the slightest bit xenophobic. I think most Thai people genuinely like foreigners, regardless of all of the dogma they have been subjected to, by a fabulously ignorant succession of administrations. And I also find that the Thai people really respond to a good attitude. If I am friendly, open, lighthearted, humorous, kind, and respectful, the reaction I get is usually very gratifying, and very warm. I adore most Thai people. They beat the hell out of the bitter, disenfranchised, surly, cold, humorless, and heavy hearted souls back in the US. 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Thaifly88 said:

The current GDP estimate of tourism's contribution to Thailand's economy is 17%, so not sure where the gentleman who quotes 40% for the sex industry is sourcing his data. Of the 17%, non sex tourism would be the vast majority of it.

If sex tourism disappeared tomorrow, Pattaya would continue on with a blip on the graph showing a temporary decline before resuming it's rise in tourist numbers as the Chinese continue their unabated arrivals along with European and Russian families.

Thailand continues to be an extremely popular tourist destination worldwide regardless of political uncertainty, strong baht, tsunami's etc. 

Please.. whilst I don't agree with people who grossly exaggerate the sex tourism figures in regards to GDP, if there is one place where the shit would hit the fan after a serious crackdown on prostitution, then it is certainly Pattaya. I certainly would not want to be around to see the aftermath.

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16 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Pattaya was not "created as an r&r zone for the US". The overwhelming majority of US military that came to Thailand for R&R during the American War never left Bangkok.

 

I think the Germans can lay claim to 'discovering' Pattaya before anyone's war was over.

 

 

While I am not privy to the statistics; I do know I first came to Pattaya in 1967, while stationed in Vietnam. I was not alone and Pattaya was still in its infancy. However, I think we all fool ourselves claiming any Westerner created sex entertainment areas in Thailand.  

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The difference between the Foreign sex scene and the Thai sex scene is that the Thai Scene is much more discrete. Most foreigners would not know where to find the Thai sex scene unless they have lived in Thailand a long time or can speak and understand Thai and visit those areas. I once went with my step son to a Thai only restaurant in a remote border village. The names of the available ladies and prices were imprinted on the 'menu'.  

 

The Phuket and Pattaya sex scene for foreigners is very unregulated; in your face; and allowed to move around mostly at will.  These are the images that the World sees of Thailand.. The GoGo scene; the scantily clad lasses out front; the beer bar crowd etc.  They need to enforce some zoning so the not interested in sex tourist trade does not clash with the mongers -It appears North Pattaya is mostly being developed that way and as bar rental-lease renewal prices rise- relocation or closure takes place and a natural culling occurs.  I would expect more relocation towards Jomtien just as relocation in Bangkok is moving more towards mid Sukhumvit with the eventual closure of Nana Plaza and possibly Cowboy.

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5 hours ago, AsianAtHeart said:

So called?  What would you call morals?  Is there such a thing? 

 

To forget one's morals is to contribute to the decadence of society.  More importantly, it is to be willfully ignorant of one's eternal interests--to sacrifice one's hope of eternal existence for a few very short moments of pleasure.  I say it's not worth it.  The eternal prize is worth risking everything for, and giving up everything in the effort, as an olympian does in seeking the gold medal.

 

And that statement right there alludes to the solution.  I think, as unpopular as their efforts have been portrayed, the attempts by the Shinawatras to strengthen the economy among the poorer classes were as much effective toward alleviating the core basis for prostitution as any.  Very few women desire such an ignominious and disagreeable "job."  Providing them better means of supporting themselves and their families would be the most efficient method of elevating the country out of its shame.

 

"Very few women desire such an ignominious and disagreeable "job."  Providing them better means of supporting themselves and their families would be the most efficient method of elevating the country out of its shame. "

 

Can't agree with you, I've been coming to Thailand since the mid 70's, even lived there for 2 years and have many many Thai friends.  

More than a few of them are Bar girls and many are part time Freelancers, who hold "good" jobs one of them (my regular TG) is a Bangkok accountant with 3 kids who needs to work freelance to make ends meet. 

She (and the others) is quite open about how she enjoys sex with farang guys,  but understandably it's all about the money at the end of the day.

 

Read your history, prostitution has always been a significant industry way back through Thai history.

Any rural city or town you visit in Thailand offers sex workers, and the local Thai guys are reliable and regular customers.

Get to know the working girls, and listen to what they have to say about why and how they find sex work. 

 

You'd be shocked to know how huge the part time Freelancer population in Thailand is,  and it's increasing as the ordinary Thai women find it hard to make ends meet in the current economy.

Believe me, I tell it from personal and ongoing experience.

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