quelling hunger ?

[Justfine]

18 hours ago, robblok said:

Of course advocates of those ways won't start to say differently and would only quote things they think is right. I have followed scientific studies on the subject and they show there is almost no difference. (if calories remain the same). The thing is by going low carb your automatically restricting calories that is why it works. 

 

I have read about a lot of real world athletes that got leaner by increasing their carbs, these guys were advocating low carb before and totally turned around getting leaner on higher carbs. I tend to believe these guys because it takes a lot of guts to admit you were wrong to follow the low carb hype. They before were advocates of it but new research showed that there is no benefit to low carb at all compared to a high protein clean diet.

 

Low carb works because you cut out bad carbs, but if you do the same in a real diet and keep protein high and exercise you get the same results and / or better. This is of course for people who do some serious exercise  

 

The secret is to keep proteins high at around 1 to 1,5 grams of protein per kg of body-weight. Combine that with exercise and you won't lose muscle while you diet down. After you have enough proteins you add healthy fats and cabs. Its especially useful to take carbs before training sessions. 

 

As long as you cut out most processed carbs you will be ok, nobody is advocating for those. 

 

People should try what suits them best and that certainly is not always low carb 

 

Tips about going below a plateau or set point.. I broken a few in my time.. it takes time and effort. Things you can do is add more cardio for a few weeks to break it. Use a supplement to help you ECA (if you can get it and are healthy and exercise). I would not eat less (last resort) better to exercise more.. BUT you can only burn 200-300 calories maybe 500 but burning an extra 500 on what your doing now is a lot. So be prepared to go slow but keep it up. (if your into it there are more risky supplements that can help but that is on your own risk)

 

I lost most of my 55lbs with carbs (but healthy ones) not going high carb but certainly not being paranoid about it. Now I have to lose a few kg again because i got a bit fatter (messed up my diet and training for a few months because I could not sleep, now that sleeping is going better my training is good again and exercise too.. but fat-loss  is slow as always). 

Of course people doing 10 to 30 hrs exercise a week can eat loads of carbs and not get fat.

 

An average person is lucky to to do more than 2 hours. Some do none.

 

High carb foods contain a lot of calories and dont fill you up. That's why a low carb diet works for average people.

 

I really can't be bothered doing 10+ hrs of exercise a week so a low carb diet works for me.

 

I like fresh coconuts but once a month is enough. Strawberries are a better regular fruit option.

 

Avocados are low sugar but high fat fruit. I eat 1 or 2 small ones a week.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Justfine]

16 hours ago, Kaalle said:

Nutritional physiology, the only clinical science where people with absolutely no clue are experts.

 

Regurgitating the no carb doctrine has to be one of the more mindless things in the world this day and age. Be an individual...

 

Please read what Roblokk writes, everything spot on. The only thing thats going to work more than marginally for most people is an emphasis on protein and hearty vegetables. Like he says, hunger WILL be an issue, the alternative is a miniscule amount of weight lost if any. Or daily exercise and activity to the point where it becomes a real struggle for the regular person, as well as time consuming probably.

 

Sent from my MI 5 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

Rubbish.

[Justfine]

14 hours ago, juice777 said:

I shop in macros to but I am not sure what yoghurt is the healthiest which one do you buy?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 

I stopped eating yoghurt. Most are high sugar and greek yoghurt tastes foul. That's why I switched to cottage cheese.

 

 

 

 

[Justfine]

19 hours ago, dontoearth said:

     I don't see any of the advocates for the diets that don't calorie count throwing in the towel and returning to the calories in calories out model.  I just saw a doctor, Jason Fung on youtube which advocates keto and fasting and he basically says he doesn't believe in calories at all anymore.  He asked questions like where in your body is the calorie sensor?  What hormone or organ measures your calories?  Basically, he feels and I am convinced that this poorly thought out man made up science just can't explain the complex nature of digestion and energy production and fat storage in the body.

      In my career as we were introduced to research and the scientific method the professor said,"How do you know your theory is wrong?"  His answer, "The numbers won't work!"  And that is the big problem with calorie counting the numbers just won't work.  OH yeah this is where people will tell u about prison camp survivors always lost all their weight, but in the real world those limiting calories by 30% often experience total and complete miserable failure within months.  The last published figure I saw said only 1 in every 1,247 trials experienced long term success with the calorie restriction model.  And that is the REAL WORLD test!  We can't put people in prison camps and starve them.  

       The explanation for why people are having success on high carb "good carbs like whole plant foods" in losing weight and fighting diabetes is that food has some kind of synergy between the macros that we don't understand and limiting one of the macros whether it is carbs or fat or protein seems to do the trick for weight loss.  Once you strip down the body fat so many diseases disappear completely.  A National Institute of Health Researcher said this in the HBO special the Biology of Weight Loss.  All successful diets are the same they just reduce or eliminate one of the macro nutrients until weight loss starts.  Brilliant Kid!  The whole special is dedicated to the failure of the calories in calories out mantra.  The American Medical Association still pushes that model but hey they advocated smoking for 3 decades after research proved it caused lung cancer.  THE AMA was paid off by the tobacco companies.  And now the AMA gets huge money from McDonald's, Coke and Frito-lay to push the calories in calories out model in the Mantra eat less and move more.   Somethings never change!

       Just some thoughts!  I don't think the vast majority of calorie counters researchers and advocates will disappear as the big food processing companies have way too much money and time invested in this poorly thought out science to let it go.  On the other hand people losing weight  and improving their health definitely should be very suspicious. Especially with the success of so many different diet plans which do not use the calorie counting method.

        In all if we keep the calories in calories out model going it needs serious refinement in creating more categories.  No one should be looking at a bowl of strawberries at a few 100 calories and a snack cake or candy bar and thinking they are all exactly the same inside the body because they get the same macro classification and calorie count.  We know from our terrible diseases like Type II diabetes they are most certainly NOT!

         So my 41 lbs of weight loss is based on getting the simple carbs out and intermittent fasting with an occasional Keto cycle.  I have no plans of measuring calories or counting them or weighing them or whatever people are doing with those programs.  I am now in the 3rd year or so of my weight loss and working on the last few stubborn pounds which seem to be below my bodies desired set point.  I will be doing most of my research and action plan based on trying to figure out if anyone has overcome this serious problem.  It seems to be one that researchers avoid it as it is a long term problem not a 6 week or 8 week or 12 week study that would  get a few food sponsors $$$$ to help make money on the research.

         Anybody got some tips on losing weight below a plateau or set point?  Other than locking me in a prison camp?  

2 strong cardio days in a row breaks plateaus. Go for a long walk on hills or row for as long as possible then break 5 mins and repeat. Then the next day do a different exercise for as long as possible (without collapsing).

 

 

[robblok]

3 hours ago, Justfine said:

Of course people doing 10 to 30 hrs exercise a week can eat loads of carbs and not get fat.

 

An average person is lucky to to do more than 2 hours. Some do none.

 

High carb foods contain a lot of calories and dont fill you up. That's why a low carb diet works for average people.

 

I really can't be bothered doing 10+ hrs of exercise a week so a low carb diet works for me.

 

I like fresh coconuts but once a month is enough. Strawberries are a better regular fruit option.

 

Avocados are low sugar but high fat fruit. I eat 1 or 2 small ones a week.

 

 

I think you are missing what I am saying.. I am certainly not advertising HIGH carbs. Nobody is I am advertising that NO carbs or extremely low is not needed. 

 

Not sure who does 10 hours of exercise a week, most bodybuilders certainly not.. 30 hours is crazy.

 

IMHO your taking it too far with worrying about the sugar in fruits.. there are so many other good things in fruits. 

 

Anyway if it works for you. 

[robblok]

4 hours ago, juice777 said:

 

Ok yes, that was the one I was buying too but I looked online and it doesn't seem that high in Protein.

So I wonder if the Douchie ones  in a pack of 3 what say 2 times Protein is a better choice.



Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 

 

Why don't you buy some flavored or unflavored whey or cassein and mix it with the yoghurt (that is what I do)

[robblok]

3 hours ago, Justfine said:

I stopped eating yoghurt. Most are high sugar and greek yoghurt tastes foul. That's why I switched to cottage cheese.

 

 

 

 

IMHO your going to far with your low carb.. but hey if it works for you others don't need to go to those extremes.

[Justfine]

Just now, robblok said:

IMHO your going to far with your low carb.. but hey if it works for you others don't need to go to those extremes.

What extremes? I eat heathly food that's easy to buy and eat.

[Justfine]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

I think you are missing what I am saying.. I am certainly not advertising HIGH carbs. Nobody is I am advertising that NO carbs or extremely low is not needed. 

 

Not sure who does 10 hours of exercise a week, most bodybuilders certainly not.. 30 hours is crazy.

 

IMHO your taking it too far with worrying about the sugar in fruits.. there are so many other good things in fruits. 

 

Anyway if it works for you. 

Im eating carrots and strawberries. 

 

Cyclists do 10 hrs easy.

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, Justfine said:

What extremes? I eat heathly food that's easy to buy and eat.

Extremes are when you worry too much about carbs that you pass on fruits. Sorry just my opinion. 

[robblok]

1 minute ago, Justfine said:

Im eating carrots and strawberries. 

 

Cyclists do 10 hrs easy.

Carrots are not fruit.. they are veggies.

 

Strawberries.. I don't eat those they are inedible here compared to where I come from. 

[Justfine]

18 holes of golf is 4 hours. 54 holes a week is 12 hours.

[Justfine]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

Extremes are when you worry too much about carbs that you pass on fruits. Sorry just my opinion. 

I eat several fruits.

[Justfine]

2 minutes ago, robblok said:

Carrots are not fruit.. they are veggies.

 

Strawberries.. I don't eat those they are inedible here compared to where I come from. 

Yes I know what carrots are. Was pointing out I'm not on an extreme low carb diet.

 

 

[Justfine]

I think eating only 1 meal a day is more extreme.

[juice777]

Why don't you buy some flavored or unflavored whey or cassein and mix it with the yoghurt (that is what I do)

I thought that was just for Bodybuilders?

Where do you buy it from and how much is it and how much do you need per serving?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[Justfine]

9 minutes ago, juice777 said:

I thought that was just for Bodybuilders?

Where do you buy it from and how much is it and how much do you need per serving?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 

Good supermarkets sell protein powders. Anyone who is watching weight or exercises can benefit from them. I mix mine with ground flaxseed and spices + cocoa. So you end up with a heathly choc flavoured shake.

[robblok]

10 minutes ago, juice777 said:

I thought that was just for Bodybuilders?

Where do you buy it from and how much is it and how much do you need per serving?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 

Why would whey be for bodybuilders.... its for everyone who wants to add protein to their diet but does not want to add many calories / carbs or fat. Its just a supplement nothing more nothing less. Protein is protein.. i prefer to get it from "natural" sources but this comes in handy when I want to keep my calories down with higher proteins. 

 

http://www.clubproteinonline.com/

fitwhey.com  (though the this one used to be good now its a hassle paying. I am waiting for the counter service to open again meaning i can pay at 711 again)

[poanoi]

9 minutes ago, juice777 said:

I thought that was just for Bodybuilders?

Where do you buy it from and how much is it and how much do you need per serving?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 

it aint bearnaise, so i think only if you are in process of building muscles

will you be able to put up with the taste, because of motivation,

but bodybuilders got it right from a nutritional PoV out of sheer necessity

otherwise they can not bulk fast.

http://www.fitwhey.com/?gclid=CIy-y7jdxbcCFcc34godQHAAaQ

http://www.club-protein.com/

[robblok]

Just now, poanoi said:

it aint bearnaise, so i think only if you are in process of building muscles

will you be able to put up with the taste, because of motivation,

but bodybuilders got it right from a nutritional PoV out of sheer necessity

otherwise they can not bulk fast.

http://www.fitwhey.com/?gclid=CIy-y7jdxbcCFcc34godQHAAaQ

http://www.club-protein.com/

You and I differ on taste.. i actually like them if i take them with milk.. then they are a treat.. but now I take them with water its less appetizing .

 

I love the vanilla casein from club protein with yoghurt it tastes good.

 

But taste differs among people.

[robblok]

22 minutes ago, Justfine said:

I think eating only 1 meal a day is more extreme.

Maybe (i don't eat just one meal) i find intermittent fasting hard too.. But i tried it.. thing is i tried it all so I can have a good opinion on it. But I am not saying don't do this or don't do that I am just pointing out there are more ways to lose weight.

 

Several studies have shown that if you keep protein high.. don't take processed carbs then it does not really mater if you go really low carb or average carb you will still lose the same amount of fat. 

 

I just don't treat low carb like a religion like some people do thinking there are no other ways.

 

But i think we can all agree that processed carbs are bad. 

[robblok]

Just for the record... enjoying the discussion.

 

Been away from the health part of the forum because (not including this month now things are looking up) I would wake up 3-4 times a night.. (3 month period) That screwed with my mood, my diet and my training and I gained some weight. So now I am not fat but not as lean as i was. 

 

I want to get back there but (it never goes fast enough) i would be happy with half a kg a week. Because I don't have that much to lose it does not go fast. I also trying new things exercise wise. So will see how it goes. 

[Justfine]

12 minutes ago, robblok said:

Maybe (i don't eat just one meal) i find intermittent fasting hard too.. But i tried it.. thing is i tried it all so I can have a good opinion on it. But I am not saying don't do this or don't do that I am just pointing out there are more ways to lose weight.

 

Several studies have shown that if you keep protein high.. don't take processed carbs then it does not really mater if you go really low carb or average carb you will still lose the same amount of fat. 

 

I just don't treat low carb like a religion like some people do thinking there are no other ways.

 

But i think we can all agree that processed carbs are bad. 

 

 

There are good and bad carbs but too much of a good thing is possible and a lot of people eat too many carbs without knowing it.

 

 

[robblok]

12 minutes ago, Justfine said:

 

 

There are good and bad carbs but too much of a good thing is possible and a lot of people eat too many carbs without knowing it.

 

 

Of course if you eat too many good carbs at a sitting it could be worse then just a little bit of bad carbs. That being said not everyone responds the same to carbs. I tested how i responded to certain carbs with blood tests (you know like a diabetic). What was bad for one was good for me and vice versa. But for sure bigger amounts of carbs give a bigger spike in insulin. 

[Taggart]

I eat plenty of carbs and I'm not gaining weight.  In fact I'm still steadily losing weight.  Hot oats for breakfast, with plenty of fruit along with a slice of whole grain bread with nut butter.  How many baked potatoes, sweet potatoes can you eat for lunch or dinner?  I can't eat too many with my bean salad before I start feeling full.  If I can't eat a whole potato I just put half in the fridge and nuke it the next day for another meal.  Another meal during the day might be a veggie stir fry with brown or red rice.  Once a week maybe a pasta marinara or a homemade cheeseless pizza on whole grain pita loaded with tomato sauce, hummus and veggies.  Nutritional yeast I sprinkle on top for a cheese like flavour.  Fresh fruit is now my dessert or between meal snack, not cakes, pastries and cookies like the old days.  Not looking for extra protein other than what's in the mostly plant foods I eat each day.   I seem to have lost interest in meat and dairy.  Fish/seafood occasionally but not every day.  My doctor's have never said I'm protein deficient so I must be OK.  If anything, I'm always looking for fibre during the day, from mostly minimally processed foods.  I start eating around 7:30 am and normally shut down completely around 5 pm.  I never go to bed feeling like I'm hungry.  Try to get a minimum of 30 minutes of aerobics exercise each day from a dvd.  Nothing too strenuous.  Just enough to get the heart pumping.  I'm getting near 69 so it's not like I've got the same metabolism as when I was younger.  Slowed down somewhat, I've noticed.  Then again, when I visit Thailand with my wife for a few weeks every year or two, I don't go looking for fast food in the malls like I used to.  Now it's whatever appears on the menu that looks the healthiest, not necessarily the tastiest.  

[poanoi]

" If I can't eat a whole potato I just put half in the fridge and nuke it the next day for another meal. "

 

taggart: if you are like that, you are in minority and can seemingly put up with

living in a concentration camp without batting an eyelid.

 

for the rest of us, the question is not if we can eat a whole potato,

the question is, how many dishes of meat, sauce, and potatoes do we need per sitting ?

[Taggart]

2 hours ago, poanoi said:

" If I can't eat a whole potato I just put half in the fridge and nuke it the next day for another meal. "

 

taggart: if you are like that, you are in minority and can seemingly put up with

living in a concentration camp without batting an eyelid.

 

for the rest of us, the question is not if we can eat a whole potato,

the question is, how many dishes of meat, sauce, and potatoes do we need per sitting ?

I don't look at that way.  Just something I should have been doing many years ago.  I'm at that age where I'm starting to see a few friends and acquaintances getting sick due to what I see as their crappy lifestyle.  I just don't tell them that.  So far, I'm lucky to have kept my health, and just want to keep it that way as long as possible.  Heart disease and cancer runs in my family, so that's always something to consider.

[robblok]

On 23/04/2018 at 7:52 AM, juice777 said:

I thought that was just for Bodybuilders?

Where do you buy it from and how much is it and how much do you need per serving?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 

Update, i ordered again from fitwhey the casein protein (they write night time protein but can be used during the day its a slow digesting protein) the vanilla. They now do COD (cash on delivery) so that is ok before i could prepay at 711 that option is gone but will be back again.

 

To add its a 4Lb = 1,8 kg at a scoop of 30 grams is good for about two months. 2099 bt

[Justfine]

21 hours ago, Taggart said:

I eat plenty of carbs and I'm not gaining weight.  In fact I'm still steadily losing weight.  Hot oats for breakfast, with plenty of fruit along with a slice of whole grain bread with nut butter.  How many baked potatoes, sweet potatoes can you eat for lunch or dinner?  I can't eat too many with my bean salad before I start feeling full.  If I can't eat a whole potato I just put half in the fridge and nuke it the next day for another meal.  Another meal during the day might be a veggie stir fry with brown or red rice.  Once a week maybe a pasta marinara or a homemade cheeseless pizza on whole grain pita loaded with tomato sauce, hummus and veggies.  Nutritional yeast I sprinkle on top for a cheese like flavour.  Fresh fruit is now my dessert or between meal snack, not cakes, pastries and cookies like the old days.  Not looking for extra protein other than what's in the mostly plant foods I eat each day.   I seem to have lost interest in meat and dairy.  Fish/seafood occasionally but not every day.  My doctor's have never said I'm protein deficient so I must be OK.  If anything, I'm always looking for fibre during the day, from mostly minimally processed foods.  I start eating around 7:30 am and normally shut down completely around 5 pm.  I never go to bed feeling like I'm hungry.  Try to get a minimum of 30 minutes of aerobics exercise each day from a dvd.  Nothing too strenuous.  Just enough to get the heart pumping.  I'm getting near 69 so it's not like I've got the same metabolism as when I was younger.  Slowed down somewhat, I've noticed.  Then again, when I visit Thailand with my wife for a few weeks every year or two, I don't go looking for fast food in the malls like I used to.  Now it's whatever appears on the menu that looks the healthiest, not necessarily the tastiest.  

Lots of people over 65 eat little. Obesity is more of a problem for 12-60yos

[Taggart]

29 minutes ago, Justfine said:

Lots of people over 65 eat little. Obesity is more of a problem for 12-60yos

I don't think so.  A friend of my wife got stroke about four years ago.  Lost complete control of one arm.  Can't drive anymore.  Gets around very slowly only when she has to, using one of those foldable rollators.  Totally addicted to a diet of sugary drinks along with diet cokes, fast food delivery, potato chips, burgers, fries, cakes, doughnuts, pastries.  I've never seen her eat something simple like a salad or a piece of fruit.  Now stays in a retirement home, where perhaps she eats a bit better,  but she's still very much obese.  Forever at the doctor to obtain more prescription drugs for muscle ache and pain.  Highly intelligent woman, but doesn't seem to realize that it's perhaps what she eating that may be the cause of her health problems.  She's now 69.