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New probe of self-help centre budgets hints at massive graft


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New probe of self-help centre budgets hints at massive graft

By THE NATION

 

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BUDGET allocations for self-help settlements in Udon Thani and Khon Kaen have shown irregularities after an investigation by the Public Anti-Corruption Commission (PACC).
 

The alleged graft may be similar to that reported at various provincial protection centres for the destitute, which are also being investigated, PACC chief assistant Pol Lt-Colonel Wannop Somjintanakul said yesterday.

 

The number of beneficiaries in the new cases was fewer, but the budgets were much bigger than those for the provincial centres.

 

The Ministry of Social Development and Human Security’s Department of Social Development and Welfare annually distributes funds to 59 poor communities, comprising 43 self-help settlements and 16 highland community development centres, with a budget of Bt300 million. 

 

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The department is also in charge of the 76 provincial protection centres for the destitute, 44 of which have shown signs of graft, while the remaining 32 are being probed ahead of a May 31 completion deadline.

 

A former director of a provincial protection centre, who asked not to be named, said some self-help settlements with fewer than 50,000 members had received millions of baht per year. 

 

High-ranking officials such as director-generals or permanent secretaries should be able to answer why such disproportional budgets were allocated to some, he said, suggesting that normally each self-help settlement had received from Bt500,000 to Bt1 million annually, but budgets had suspiciously increased to millions of baht.

 

He added that investigators should not just focus on “downstream” graft, but also on intermediaries and the origins of the money. 

 

Coordination between the department and provincial centres could have been behind budget allocations, he said.

 

Meanwhile, a team of PACC officials yesterday investigated alleged graft linked to Udon Thani’s Huai Luang Self-Help Settlement and collected testimonials from 20 Ban Noen Chaiporn (Moo 9) residents. The สจvillagers, who are over 60, participated in the settlement’s handicraft training project last May while another group of 20 attended it the previous year. 

 

They were told to pose for pictures holding Bt2,000 each, which was then returned to officials who claimed the money was for purchasing training materials. Some villagers were later given Bt300 each. 

 

PACC investigator Rakkla Sathansuk said there had been a misuse of funds because allowances were supposed to be distributed as cash to each entitled villager, but the settlement had instead provided vocational activities. He added that there were 2,500 potential victims from seven villages.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30340853

 
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Scum of the earth. People stealing like this deserve a bullet.

When you're directly stealing from the poor it is pretty much as low as you can get. 

Just a shame 90% plus of those thieving c*#@$ involved won't even be convicted of a crime let alone forced to forfeit the money they stole 

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17 minutes ago, webfact said:

BUDGET allocations for self-help settlements in Udon Thani and Khon Kaen have shown irregularities after an investigation by the Public Anti-Corruption Commission (PACC).
 

The alleged graft may be similar to that reported at various provincial protection centres for the destitute, which are also being investigated, PACC chief assistant Pol Lt-Colonel Wannop Somjintanakul said yesterday.

One has to wonder if the method of stealing in the case of the budgets for the destitute is actually a blueprint for industrialized theft across the bureaucracy. This case alone won't make that apparent, but if the same method is used in two ministries, then the chances of it being used in more go up exponentially.

 

I am used to some theft and/or embezzlement living in Thailand (or Asia for that matter), but the sheer scale of the theft that I can envision here is breath-taking. And it must be coordinated between low-level staff and the higher-ups.

 

Let us hope that this is the beginning of the end. A method has been identified and (hopefully) the investigations will continue. Kudos to the Nation for their stories and let us hope that all the newspapers will cover this story and the emerging stories that will come.

 

People that steal on the level and scale are truly scum. I am not a religious man, but I am willing to pray if it means that these "people" who steal from the needy are given the punishment that they deserve.

 

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Just keep digging, look a little harder and it will be found. All these ministries are probably under the same big umbrella at the top. Someone sitting in a lovely a/c office in Bangkok with a padded seat at all outside functions, a dress uniform with glitter and an army of people offering the deepest wai's.

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Is there anybody in this government's agencies and police that are not somehow involved

or connected to graft, embezzlement, theft or corruption in anyway shape or form seeing

the daily news of more and more rort and graft cases?.....

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2 hours ago, webfact said:

He added that investigators should not just focus on “downstream” graft, but also on intermediaries and the origins of the money. 

whole thing is tragi-comical under an umbrella of sadness; looks to be that Everywhere they look they find graft

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these officials know... ,thais have a fierce loyalty and huge spirit and a  ..''never complain attitude''..stealing from the them, has been like..''shooting fish in a barrel''....aboslutley disgusting...

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1 hour ago, ezzra said:

Is there anybody in this government's agencies and police that are not somehow involved

or connected to graft, embezzlement, theft or corruption in anyway shape or form seeing

the daily news of more and more rort and graft cases?.....

Think you missed out the monkhood it that sentence !

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I'm sure the PM will step up and accept responsibility for the staggering levels of corruption which have occurred on his watch.

 

Just kidding.

 

While the pilfering seems to be occurring across many provinces, the levels in the South look to be quite massive.

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4 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

One has to wonder if the method of stealing in the case of the budgets for the destitute is actually a blueprint for industrialized theft across the bureaucracy. This case alone won't make that apparent, but if the same method is used in two ministries, then the chances of it being used in more go up exponentially.

 

I am used to some theft and/or embezzlement living in Thailand (or Asia for that matter), but the sheer scale of the theft that I can envision here is breath-taking. And it must be coordinated between low-level staff and the higher-ups.

 

Let us hope that this is the beginning of the end. A method has been identified and (hopefully) the investigations will continue. Kudos to the Nation for their stories and let us hope that all the newspapers will cover this story and the emerging stories that will come.

 

People that steal on the level and scale are truly scum. I am not a religious man, but I am willing to pray if it means that these "people" who steal from the needy are given the punishment that they deserve.

 

I told you before this is standard, as I seen it years ago in the travel business. Government allocates 1 million for old people to travel (don't ask me why the government does this). The guy in control then says to his subordinate here you have 900.000 get me an 1 million invoice. Subordinate does the same thing and so it goes on a few layers. In the end a low budget remains and the travel is not as nice as it should be but the people who are in control get their cut. Travel organisations have no chance not to agree as else they are cut out and are shunned and lose their business.

 

Its similar to what you see all over.. high budget let people sign for more then they receive or forge documents so it looks like they have received more. Now we see how wide spread it is and that people at local levels all benefit from this. To clean this up it means massive court cases and huge number of arrests.... They probably don't get everyone maybe higher players stay out but at least a signal is given. 

 

I prefer this over total inaction though of course a lot can be improved. Though you have to wonder why all the action now. If i know how it went then those in the corruption business should too. Maybe they are feeling pressure from the goverment to clean it up or maybe there are some good people in the anti corruption agency who now see its the right time to expose as much as possible. Before they were too afraid but now as its in the news they use this to expose as much as possible. 

 

Maybe you got a better explanation why this is snowballing and exposing more and more. 

 

We still have to see what comes of this but any action is better then no action.

 

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18 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Too bad the NLA will spend time on more important matters like curbing the problem of stray pets than reviewing current laws to curb civil servant corruptions.  

Yea or in the past YL trying to get her brother back instead of cleaning this up... come on Eric don't make this political as it is not political at all and has been around for decades and not linked to the color of shirts.

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46 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

I'm sure the PM will step up and accept responsibility for the staggering levels of corruption which have occurred on his watch.

 

Just kidding.

 

While the pilfering seems to be occurring across many provinces, the levels in the South look to be quite massive.

I wish he did and of course all those other politicians of previous governments have to be punished then too as it was also during their reign.... Whole PTP, Democrats, and junta in jail..   good plan.

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3 hours ago, Lungstib said:

Just keep digging, look a little harder and it will be found. All these ministries are probably under the same big umbrella at the top. Someone sitting in a lovely a/c office in Bangkok with a padded seat at all outside functions, a dress uniform with glitter and an army of people offering the deepest wai's.

 

Something like a pyramid scheme.

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

Something like a pyramid scheme.

 

 

 

I am not an expert in these matters, but this sounds a lot more like a classic "Mafia" structure where actions are coordinated at the top but implemented at the 'bottom'. Then, as the schemes progress, funds are passed up to the Big Boys. And yes, you have to earn/buy your way into the organization. The root difference is that in a pyramid scheme, participants do not know they are part of a scam. With this scheme (Mafia-style), participants do know.

 

This should be easy to prosecute as there seems to be a massive paper-trail, but that presupposes that there is a 'will' to do so on behalf of both the police and the political leadership. In my view, both are likely lacking.

 

Lets hope that public pressure continues, because I doubt that anything else will do it.

 

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Just now, rkidlad said:

Not only do these scumbags steal from you - they also expect you to kowtow and wye them also. Absolutely devoid of any morals whatsoever. 

 

You can find numerous examples of this. my Thai son went to the car blue book office, in Bkk,  to pay the annual road tax and to change the name in the car blue book to his name from my name. Went armed with every document we could think of.

 

He met the dragon from hell who firstly admonished him for having a Thai first name and a western family name. She then insisted that there is no such thing as permanent residency in Thailand and therefore my PR books were fake and she feined ripping up my documents. She told son to get out of the office and come back with some other documents, then insisted he wai deeply to her many times for insulting her.

 

Son went back next day, 2 other staff members quickly approached my son and asked him for all the documents and said please wait about 1 hour or less. They explained that the dragon lady was sick that day, they also apologized strongly several times for the dragon lady's rudeness the previous day, also indicating that she does things like this several times every week, and they indicated they would get everything processed and finished quickly so son could leave as soon as possible, because they feared the dragon lady might appear at any minute.

 

Son was out of the office with new name in blue book and next years tax paid within about 40 minutes. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I am not an expert in these matters, but this sounds a lot more like a classic "Mafia" structure where actions are coordinated at the top but implemented at the 'bottom'. Then, as the schemes progress, funds are passed up to the Big Boys. And yes, you have to earn/buy your way into the organization.

 

This should be easy to prosecute as there seems to be a massive paper-trail, but that presupposes that there is a 'will' to do so on behalf of both the police and the political leadership. In my view, both are likely lacking.

 

Lets hope that public pressure continues, because I doubt that anything else will do it.

 

 

 

" Lets hope that public pressure continues, because I doubt that anything else will do it."

 

Absolutely key point. Well said.

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, robblok said:

Yea or in the past YL trying to get her brother back instead of cleaning this up... come on Eric don't make this political as it is not political at all and has been around for decades and not linked to the color of shirts.

Don't be emotion and come out defending the NLA. This nothing to do with politics. The NLA is a legislative body and has a law making function. This kind of major corruption should be taken up by the NLA and debated to improve the the law to deter and prevent corruption like this happening again. Parliament is the place for such debates and oppositions to scrutinize and pressure elected government. This NLA of appointed cronies only act of order unfortunately. No initiative neither any will to work for the people. 

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6 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

You can find numerous examples of this. my Thai son went to the car blue book office, in Bkk,  to pay the annual road tax and to change the name in the car blue book to his name from my name. Went armed with every document we could think of.

 

He met the dragon from hell who firstly admonished him for having a Thai first name and a western family name. She then insisted that there is no such thing as permanent residency in Thailand and therefore my PR books were fake and she feined ripping up my documents. She told son to get out of the office and come back with some other documents, then insisted he wai deeply to her many times for insulting her.

 

Son went back next day, 2 other staff members quickly approached my son and asked him for all the documents and said please wait about 1 hour or less. They explained that the dragon lady was sick that day, they also apologized strongly several times for the dragon lady's rudeness the previous day, also indicating that she does things like this several times every week, and they indicated they would get everything processed and finished quickly so son could leave as soon as possible, because they feared the dragon lady might appear at any minute.

 

Son was out of the office with new name in blue book and next years tax paid within about 40 minutes. 

 

 

Is there anywhere you could file a complaint? I know there is a corruption hotline, but is there one to complain about service issues? 

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21 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

You can find numerous examples of this. my Thai son went to the car blue book office, in Bkk,  to pay the annual road tax and to change the name in the car blue book to his name from my name. Went armed with every document we could think of.

 

He met the dragon from hell who firstly admonished him for having a Thai first name and a western family name. She then insisted that there is no such thing as permanent residency in Thailand and therefore my PR books were fake and she feined ripping up my documents. She told son to get out of the office and come back with some other documents, then insisted he wai deeply to her many times for insulting her.

 

Son went back next day, 2 other staff members quickly approached my son and asked him for all the documents and said please wait about 1 hour or less. They explained that the dragon lady was sick that day, they also apologized strongly several times for the dragon lady's rudeness the previous day, also indicating that she does things like this several times every week, and they indicated they would get everything processed and finished quickly so son could leave as soon as possible, because they feared the dragon lady might appear at any minute.

 

Son was out of the office with new name in blue book and next years tax paid within about 40 minutes. 

 

 

Officials and their little kingdoms. Usually they just love the power trip.

 

My (now ex) wife and me wanted a divorce. We went to the ampur we were married and they asked for certain stamps that just did not exist. Then we went to an other Ampur and there they said that it could only be done at the Ampur we married ( a lie and we knew it). Third Ampur had not problems and did the job without the papers needed at the first one.

 

Its just a powertrip or they are lazy to do their job. Problem is even if your right.. where to go for complaints.. and is it worth all the time you lose. 

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2 minutes ago, robblok said:

Officials and their little kingdoms. Usually they just love the power trip.

 

My (now ex) wife and me wanted a divorce. We went to the ampur we were married and they asked for certain stamps that just did not exist. Then we went to an other Ampur and there they said that it could only be done at the Ampur we married ( a lie and we knew it). Third Ampur had not problems and did the job without the papers needed at the first one.

 

Its just a powertrip or they are lazy to do their job. Problem is even if your right.. where to go for complaints.. and is it worth all the time you lose. 

 

 

Another example, my son and his first wife were married at her local Roi Et amphur office. They decided to divorce, went to local amphur in Bkk, officer told them can only divorce at same office where married.

 

Second officer joined the discussion saying that my thai son (they had noticed my son's family name was a very typical western name) had to, by law, make a settlement payout of 100,000Baht.

 

They went to another Bkk amphur office, all finished in 30 minutes, 20 Baht fee, no mention of any settlement.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

 

Another example, my son and his first wife were married at her local Roi Et amphur office. They decided to divorce, went to local amphur in Bkk, officer told them can only divorce at same office where married.

 

Second officer joined the discussion saying that my thai son (they had noticed my son's family name was a very typical western name) had to, by law, make a settlement payout of 100,000Baht.

 

They went to another Bkk amphur office, all finished in 30 minutes, 20 Baht fee, no mention of any settlement.

 

 

This mirrors my experience, sometimes they just don't want to do the work and try everything they can to get out under their responsibilities. But even if you can complain.. a procedure like that would be real time consuming and would probably not accomplish much, going to an other amphur would be faster (as your son and as I did)

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1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

Too bad the NLA will spend time on more important matters like curbing the problem of stray pets than reviewing current laws to curb civil servant corruptions.  

Eric, I think the dart-board registration scheme is probably the topic you were looking for.

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1 hour ago, robblok said:

Yea or in the past YL trying to get her brother back instead of cleaning this up... come on Eric don't make this political as it is not political at all and has been around for decades and not linked to the color of shirts.

Of course it is political, and Eric made an entirely valid point.

This regime made corruption one of the primary excuses for seizing power - do you not remember?

 

They have consistently and regularly trumpeted numerous initiatives and campaigns to stamp it out, have you not noticed?

 

They have been in power for some four years, yet corruption has continued unabated, both at the personal level, (watches anyone?) and institutionally, it appears on an"eye popping" scale, or have you overlooked that?

 

I don't deny that corruption predates this regime, but it has flourished under it. It is as political as it gets...

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19 minutes ago, JAG said:

Of course it is political, and Eric made an entirely valid point.

This regime made corruption one of the primary excuses for seizing power - do you not remember?

 

They have consistently and regularly trumpeted numerous initiatives and campaigns to stamp it out, have you not noticed?

 

They have been in power for some four years, yet corruption has continued unabated, both at the personal level, (watches anyone?) and institutionally, it appears on an"eye popping" scale, or have you overlooked that?

 

I don't deny that corruption predates this regime, but it has flourished under it. It is as political as it gets...

Care to prove that corruption flourished under this regime anymore then the previous ones ? Right now I have not seen any corruption scandals topping the 36 Billion (not million)  lost in fake G2G deals (as proven in court)

 

You are right that the junta has made fighting corruption as one of their primary roles and that they have failed (see watch scandal and others). 

 

The corruption is huge, but this corruption is the same as before and should be combated. All corruption should be eradicated but that is just not going to happen overnight. We will see how this is attacked but sadly I think it won't be attacked enough and many people will escape justice. 

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