Vitara 1999 can I swap manual to automatic?

[cheeryble]

12 hours ago, Lancashirelad said:

Sapporillo said: it is absolutely normal to replace this parts at the same time, it is recommended by the manufacturer to replace them at the same time, and I have never met a mechanic who does a clutch job without changing these other parts too. 

 

It also recommended by the manufacturer to change the brake fluid, diff & gearbox oil from time to time. Very few people do it  ....unless you're paying thru' the nose to take a newer motor to a main stealer dealer. 

 

I agree that any mechanic worth his salt would want fo fit a full clutch kit, but many people on a tight budget only replace the drive plate. I've seen many farmers in the uk do it in the past.

When changing the clutch I would certainly have expected the whole set in the past.

 

BTW I find that I HAVE been riding the clutch (though i know it eventually takes a toll)

Fact is there's no room to right or left to rest my foot.

[cheeryble]

On April 6, 2018 at 9:31 PM, Sapporillo said:

Unfortunately I haven’t seen a lot of used clutches to make an assessment, it certainly looks used, but I can’t tell you how much. But please read one of my earlier posts again, I had had a similar problem with a car in the past, and what you described was a symptom of a worn clutch. So I’m not surprised that they installed a new one, plus you said the car drives fine and the pedal feel and everything is ok now,  it certainly seems that they have solved the problem. As for the bearings and the other parts: it is absolutely normal to replace this parts at the same time, it is recommended by the manufacturer to replace them at the same time, and I have never met a mechanic who does a clutch job without changing these other parts too. 

To summarise, your problem is fixed, you have a new clutch for, what seems, quite a good price, why do you want them to change the cable as well?

 

Edit: they didn’t change they the cable because if it snaps one day, they don’t have to drop the gearbox to install a new one. If they would have left your old throwout bearing in there and it started seizing in a year, they would need to drop the gearbox to change it. 

as for the ring worn on the diaphragm, it;s so even and non shiny i thought somehow it might be made on purpose in manufacture for some reason.

 

Next job get the bloody cable adjusted it's still too low wish they'd get these things sorted first time.

[Lancashirelad]

"the clutch is not old, a year or two".

 

"BTW I find that I HAVE been riding the clutch (though i know it eventually takes a toll)" 

Indeed it does --->

 

 

 

When I was a Driving Instructor I used to joke with my puplils who persistently clutch rode that I would tie a piece of string round their left ankle and give it a sharp jerk when they clutch rode.

In reality I use to fix it by just suddenly pushing down the dual control clutch when they were least expecting it, causing their pedal to drop away from under their foot. You should have seen the looks of bewilderment lol.

[cheeryble]

8 hours ago, Lancashirelad said:

"the clutch is not old, a year or two".

 

"BTW I find that I HAVE been riding the clutch (though i know it eventually takes a toll)" 

Indeed it does --->

 

 

 

When I was a Driving Instructor I used to joke with my puplils who persistently clutch rode that I would tie a piece of string round their left ankle and give it a sharp jerk when they clutch rode.

In reality I use to fix it by just suddenly pushing down the dual control clutch when they were least expecting it, causing their pedal to drop away from under their foot. You should have seen the looks of bewilderment lol.

It's true though, either side of the pedal is a gap not suitable for a foot to be as it might get stuck there.

May be better when the pedal is adjusted up.

[cheeryble]

The plot thickens!!

 

The basic story so far:

Readers may remember my car had a moderately new clutch to my memory.

 

It had been stiff and far too low to disengage, and I happened to be with a friend who told me of a local Thai mechanic shop he liked (I usually use Proauto).

So we popped down the road and saw the guy.

 

He adjusted the clutch cable and said "Done", and no charge.

 

When I got in the car I could not clear the clutch to engage any gear.

He said come back tomorrow and I expected him to mess with the cable.

Next day I found they;d fitted a complete clutch set. 

 

 A day or so later I pulled into a drive and again could not engage any gear.

I left it an hour and it worked again.

I thought I must have had a brain fart and not pressed the clutch down enough (now do not think so)

 

The pedal was still too low and I didn't want to go back to the guy with whom there was no communication and who wouldn't show me what was wrong with the old clutch.

So I went to Proauto and just paid a little for the adjustment which left it easier to drive.

Kh Ton assured me that yes he had fitted the clutch within the last couple of years and it shouldn't be worn out.

 

Today once again i had an episode where the clutch wouldn't clear and/or the gears would not engage.

Once again letting the car "relax" brought the ability to change gear back and it was normal coming home.

 

I've half come to the conclusion that the first time I went to drive the car from the local guys after the cable adjustment the same problem happened as happened twice later on.

In other words the new clutch wasn't necessary and something is still not working right sporadically.

 

As Click and Clack aren't available and this is a great auto detective story would anyone like to hazard a guess what's up?

 

 

 

[JaseTheBass]

Sounds like your left foot is broken.

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[canthai55]

Did they replace the clutch fork and the ball it rides on ?

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[cheeryble]

3 hours ago, JaseTheBass said:

Sounds like your left foot is broken.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
 

Wish it was.

Just learned couple days ago the weakness is from Parkinson's. (oooohhh!)

 

But ti ain;t that weak works the clutch OK now when it;s disengaging properly.

[cheeryble]

1 hour ago, canthai55 said:

Did they replace the clutch fork and the ball it rides on ?

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I don't believe they did.....certainly wan't in the box of old parts they gave me.......but this is good......this is the sort of lateral possibility which may be the problem.

 

As I said although I'm not a complete moron with cars I've never done a clutch or gearbox myself.

I believe the fork pushes the thrust bearing to disengage the diaphragm from the friction plate?

So it's inside the housing but sticks outside to pick up the cable and the ball sits in the housing?

They have handled the fork when doing the clutch?........I'm guessing if it was broken they would have noticed and it would not be an intermittent fault.......but this ball it rides in.......plastic? That or something similar sounds like a possibility. 

 

Sounds like a full strip out and inspection is needed. Or is it possible to feel play around the fork ball without opening as a start?

The first mechanic told me the cable was OK and didn't change it. He's previously made a motion which I interpreted as cable wires unwinding so presumably inspected it. I would also like to know that the pedal end of the cable ha no looseness.

 

Also wondering about the relation between temperature and the fact it seems to work again after a while (not 100% sure that's reliably true.)

 

Thankyou Canthai

 

So much for taking the bike on the back to Chiangrai for Songkran. Luckily the missus has a buggy.

 

Keep thinking guys.

[canthai55]

Usually the clutch fort is steel, and it rides on a steel ball screwed into the side of the bellhousing.

If the fork is bent, or twisted, or the ball is well worn, there may be a binding issue, which subsequent release and reapplication solves as it gives the fork/ball time to realign.

Is this the problem ? Hard to say without seeing the parts. But the transfer case and transmission will need to be removed to inspect, unless you have a large enuf hole in the bellhousing that a small hand can get into and remove.

It very well may be that the wear ring on the diaphragm fingers of the pressure plate left corresponding wear on the shift fork.

 

[cheeryble]

7 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

Usually the clutch fort is steel, and it rides on a steel ball screwed into the side of the bellhousing.

If the fork is bent, or twisted, or the ball is well worn, there may be a binding issue, which subsequent release and reapplication solves as it gives the fork/ball time to realign.

Is this the problem ? Hard to say without seeing the parts. But the transfer case and transmission will need to be removed to inspect, unless you have a large enuf hole in the bellhousing that a small hand can get into and remove.

It very well may be that the wear ring on the diaphragm fingers of the pressure plate left corresponding wear on the shift fork.

 

First class answer Canthai.

 

(BTW I learned a little about the layout and edited my last post)

 

Your last sentence about the wear ring makes sense......don't think the wear ring is a problem on it's own but told it can cause stiffness.......perhpas for the reason you say.

 

So seems to me it needs to go in the shop next week for a full run through, and I should describe just as I did above and also your suggestion.

 

(wonder if the cable was disengaged or loosened t the clutch end whether play could be felt in the fork/ball without yet opening. Also still wonder where it being intermittent comes in)

 

cheers!

[JaseTheBass]

Wish it was.
Just learned couple days ago the weakness is from Parkinson's. (oooohhh!)
 
But ti ain;t that weak works the clutch OK now when it;s disengaging properly.

A close friend of mine has that. I hope you manage to manage it ok.

Might be a good time to sell this one and get an auto. Much less hassle than mucking around with swapping transmissions.

Sent from my R2-D2 droid using my C-3PO manservant

[cheeryble]

A close friend of mine has that. I hope you manage to manage it ok.

Might be a good time to sell this one and get an auto. Much less hassle than mucking around with swapping transmissions.

Sent from my R2-D2 droid using my C-3PO manservant

Sooner or later, yes may have to.


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[Lancashirelad]

It's a strange one especially as it seems to be temperature effected. Not heard of that before apart from when freeing off stuck clutches on new cars that had been standing for months, they would always come off once the engine was hot.

[cheeryble]

It's a strange one especially as it seems to be temperature effected. Not heard of that before apart from when freeing off stuck clutches on new cars that had been standing for months, they would always come off once the engine was hot.

It’s a three pipe problem Watson.
But I’d rather have a possible diagnosis or at least know the possibilities before I let the mechanics loose on it. Many tend to change bits until they change the right bit.....looks like what happened already.


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[cheeryble]

23 hours ago, Lancashirelad said:

It's a strange one especially as it seems to be temperature effected. Not heard of that before apart from when freeing off stuck clutches on new cars that had been standing for months, they would always come off once the engine was hot.

Heat .....and thus expansion......from the engine would take some time to dissipate but I think last time this happened things worked again quite quickly..

Is it possible my clutch riding might be causing localised heating in the clutch which might be having some effect I wonder.

Just a thought.......definitely want to examine the fork ball mounting and all the rest 

 

 

ps resting my foot on the right there's not enough room to the brake pedal and to the left resting it on the floor theres too much lift needed for fast use of clutch on braking.

 

 

[Lancashirelad]

Quote

needed for fast use of clutch on braking

 

That was an answer I often used to get from clutch riding learners when asked why they felt the need to do it. It's completely wrong. You never need the clutch in a hurry. You might, from time to time, have to brake suddenly, although it shouldn't be often with well-planned driving and good anticipation, but even with an emergency stop, you have ample time to depress the clutch and it's not the end of the world if you didn't.  I do suggest you consider changing your vehicle to an automatic one.

[Sapporillo]

2 hours ago, Lancashirelad said:

you have ample time to depress the clutch and it's not the end of the world if you didn't.

Exactly, your engine stalling should be the least of your worries in a situation where you have to come to a stop suddenly. 

[Lancashirelad]

2 hours ago, Sapporillo said:

Exactly, your engine stalling should be the least of your worries in a situation where you have to come to a stop suddenly. 

Indeed and although maybe not so much with modern cars, but not so many years back often the engine used to stop anyway when you did a full-blown emergency stop. 

[cheeryble]

13 hours ago, Lancashirelad said:

 

That was an answer I often used to get from clutch riding learners when asked why they felt the need to do it. It's completely wrong. You never need the clutch in a hurry. You might, from time to time, have to brake suddenly, although it shouldn't be often with well-planned driving and good anticipation, but even with an emergency stop, you have ample time to depress the clutch and it's not the end of the world if you didn't.  I do suggest you consider changing your vehicle to an automatic one.

Yeah I know clutch riding's not good but it seems like a long way down to the floor between the pedal and the central bulkhead.

Almost like it could be trapped there (I have size 12 feet!) I was driving the missus elderly corolla yesterday and noticed Toyota had alleviated this problem by putting a footrest to fill that gap.........comfortable.

[Lancashirelad]

Yes it's very good to have a footrest, all cars should have one.

[cheeryble]

Back in CM tonight.

The question now is take it back to the Thai shop.....might I presume a full check of the clutch and possibly the whole works out again (though possibly just cable/mount work) would be free? Not much damage they could do I guess, though i don't fancy much more grating of gears.

Or take it to ProAuto and pay....at least wouldn't have to pay for the clutch assembly so just whatever labour, possibly one or two bits and pieces.

 

Not sure if there's a window where the fork fits which might help diagnosis without disassembly, must take a look at the manual kindly linked earlier by Jay.

 

On a positive note I've been thinking about selling the Phantom......which perhaps I shouldn't be riding with Parkinsons..... and buying an e-bike (pedal mountain bike with adjustable motor assist) to compensate for my muscle weakness. Today in CR someone lent me one to try out. Fantastic.......so maybe I can join a small group of friends riding again and get exercise the same time. If as I presume I deteriorate in future they have e-tricycles too. Maybe could fit a couple of babes in the big rear basket.

[Lancashirelad]

I think I might be tempted to take it elsewhere as it seems the previous garage is unable to fix the problem.

Tell them the full story.

[cheeryble]

On April 18, 2018 at 12:41 AM, Lancashirelad said:

I think I might be tempted to take it elsewhere as it seems the previous garage is unable to fix the problem.

Tell them the full story.

Same story's been happening.

I drive most of the time OK.....especially nearer start up.....then I'll be in some traffic or the lights and the pedal needs pushing down more and eventually will not clear.

Yesterday the first time I actually got stuck downtown in the traffic.

 

Yes I thought of going to ProAuto but after all it's only a clutch and the previous garage is close so dropped it there this morning.

HE said it'll only take a short time.

I asked does that mean you'll just adjust the cable.

Yes.

I got Proauto to do that I said......again, works well a while then wont enable gear change.

Oh.

 

Stay tuned maybe we'll get a solution.

 

[Lancashirelad]

hmmm. It's a mystery indeed. I don't think it's the cause, but just one thing I noticed you wrote:

"the pedal needs pushing down more"  A clutch pedal should always be depressed all the way.

[steve187]

some nice vitaras here one of which is 4x4, 2005, 215,000 baht - https://www.one2car.com/en/used-cars-for-sale/suzuki/vitara

[transam]

On 4/25/2018 at 1:44 PM, cheeryble said:

Same story's been happening.

I drive most of the time OK.....especially nearer start up.....then I'll be in some traffic or the lights and the pedal needs pushing down more and eventually will not clear.

Yesterday the first time I actually got stuck downtown in the traffic.

 

Yes I thought of going to ProAuto but after all it's only a clutch and the previous garage is close so dropped it there this morning.

HE said it'll only take a short time.

I asked does that mean you'll just adjust the cable.

Yes.

I got Proauto to do that I said......again, works well a while then wont enable gear change.

Oh.

 

Stay tuned maybe we'll get a solution.

 

Is it cable or hydraulic...?

[Lancashirelad]

13 hours ago, transam said:

Is it cable or hydraulic...?

Cable ......been mentioned many times.

[steve187]

if its cable could a longer cable be obtained/made and some sort of pulley system rigged up to make the pedal easier to push. just thinking out loud.

[transam]

4 hours ago, Lancashirelad said:

Cable ......been mentioned many times.

Thank you....

 

I did do a job with a similar ploblem, I had to make the rod that pushed the fork a bit longer as there was no more adjustment..

But I have no idea what your linkage stuff looks like...