Affordable health insurance for anyone in Thailand

[Sheryl]

On 4/25/2018 at 8:50 AM, meatboy said:

I wonder what you thought of my cost of my test that was done.[procedure posted my inr range.]

I have 1,000,000bht.self cover.i am just wondering what it would cover.

If you use only government hospitals, and if you can keep replenishing this 1 mill baht as it is used up, you are OK for almost anything.

 

The problem for a lot of people is that they can't replenish their savings for medical care. You are unlikely to need more than 1 mill baht for care in a government hospital for any single illness or accident, but quite likely to need more than 1 million for multiple things in aggregate  over the years, especially if you live long or develop a serious chronic disease. 

[chubby]

I'd be very happy to get a plan for 3000B/month ; depending on the  small print  , etc

 

'self insurance' to me  just means 'no insurance' ...... and probably often ends up in people neglecting  preventative care

[Damrongsak]

On 4/15/2018 at 7:16 PM, simoh1490 said:

 ...And for goodness sake, what does, loosely based on the successful Swiss healthcare system mean! ... Anyone smell fish.

Perhaps based on the Emmentaler Insurance offerings.  Just because there's a red cross on it doesn't mean it's good.  The policy is full of holes.  Smells cheesy to me.  Although you are right.  By the time it gets to Thailand it will be fishy.

 

 

 

[altcar bob]

Its all a load of rubbish anyway for the elderly, best policy would be,'we will detect,but not treat'  clear off to India or back home.   The elderly think they are buying everlasting health,not so,terminal stage of life reached,that's it bye bye

[JetsetBkk]

On Monday, April 16, 2018 at 7:46 PM, ThaiPauly said:

Well when you google the address they are Phuket Insurance Brokers...they do not mention this anywhere in their blurb!

Their name is Bangkok Insurance Brokers Company. The company was registered in 2007 and is based in Phuket.

I've known the company for a few years since they arranged my "First Class" pickup insurance after my existing company would only insure it for "Third Party" because of its age.

 

[JetsetBkk]

On Monday, April 16, 2018 at 5:36 AM, wpcoe said:

Without "joining" a "group," any idea what the costs are/will be?

I believe they are aiming for 30,000 annual premium or less. The more people show interest by signing up, the more bargaining power the broker has to negotiate with the insurance companies. They have just passed 1,300 names, Thai and Farang.

 

I recently got quotes from one of the "Expat Insurance" adverts that keep popping up on my mobile. The cheapest was 115,000 baht, the next cheapest was 166,000 baht, then 250,000. Then they got really expensive...

 

But what put me off was the exclusions - basically anything you've had, currently have, anything you think you might have and anything you ought to have are all excluded. So I'll be interested in the details of the exclusions of this scheme once it gets finalised

 

But this insurance will guarantee emergency treatment at any of the 1,000 government hospitals.

 

[JetsetBkk]

On Monday, April 16, 2018 at 9:02 PM, Sheryl said:

Yes, this is a broker who has evidentally identified the unmet need for a low cost, government hospital only policy and is trying to persuade a Bangkok-based  insurance company (I do nto know which one) to develop such a policy.Wwhat they are asking people to sign is in effect a petition stating interest,  for the purpose of persuading the insurance company that there is a real market for something of this type. Which there is, if it is done right.

 

Registering interest doe nto commit you in any way to (1) buying such a policy if it materializes nor (2) necessarily buying it from that broker even if you do buy it. If it comes to pass I expect most brokers will be able to sell it.

I think you're right on all counts. I'm pretty sure that if it comes into existence and the premium is in the 30K region, I'll get it. I may use it as a backup - if I feel like a quiet room with a pretty-pretty visiting me every hour to mop my brow, I'll go to BKK-Phuket. Otherwise, I'll go to a government hospital.  :) 

[JetsetBkk]

On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 1:53 PM, sghanchey said:

I'd like to know if anyone has had experience with Premier Health insurance plans. I am in the high-risk age group (73), and have only had success getting major medical insurance (with a very high $7500 deductible and no coverage in the U.S.) from Cigna Global (at more than $6000/year). I have a quote from Premier Health for about the same price, but with a lower deductible, and it claims to cover me in the U.S. as well (with a $3000 deductible). As I am obviously covered by Medicare in the U.S., the U.S. coverage is not critical for me. Any comments very welcome. 

I've had quotes from Cigna for about US$9,000 per year. I'm younger than you, so you must be very fit for your age!  

 

My quotes came via NowCompare.com: https://www.nowcompare.com/thailand/en/health-insurance

 

 

[meatboy]

10 hours ago, JetsetBkk said:

I believe they are aiming for 30,000 annual premium or less. The more people show interest by signing up, the more bargaining power the broker has to negotiate with the insurance companies. They have just passed 1,300 names, Thai and Farang.

 

I recently got quotes from one of the "Expat Insurance" adverts that keep popping up on my mobile. The cheapest was 115,000 baht, the next cheapest was 166,000 baht, then 250,000. Then they got really expensive...

 

But what put me off was the exclusions - basically anything you've had, currently have, anything you think you might have and anything you ought to have are all excluded. So I'll be interested in the details of the exclusions of this scheme once it gets finalised

 

But this insurance will guarantee emergency treatment at any of the 1,000 government hospitals.

 

as I am registered with a government hospital 15minutes away IT WOULD suite me,but with so much history the past 11yrs.i might have to have an extra 0 to my premium.

[Sheryl]

13 hours ago, JetsetBkk said:

I've had quotes from Cigna for about US$9,000 per year. I'm younger than you, so you must be very fit for your age!  

 

My quotes came via NowCompare.com: https://www.nowcompare.com/thailand/en/health-insurance

 

 

That must be including outpatient cover, which doubles costs and is seldom worth it.

 

Cigna for a say 70 year old man inpatient only (which includes day surgeries, scans, outpatient cancer treatment)  will be around 4,500, can get it below 4K by taking some deductible. Better to go to the Cigna site to get more accurate quote and play around with options like deductible, The site you mention just gives a very rough idea. It is NOT a quote from the actual insurance company.  Pretty much all the insurers have their own websites where you can get detailed quotes under different scenarios of cover, deductible etc.

[scubascuba3]

That must be including outpatient cover, which doubles costs and is seldom worth it.
 
Cigna for a say 70 year old man inpatient only (which includes day surgeries, scans, outpatient cancer treatment)  will be around 4,500, can get it below 4K by taking some deductible. Better to go to the Cigna site to get more accurate quote and play around with options like deductible, The site you mention just gives a very rough idea. It is NOT a quote from the actual insurance company.  Pretty much all the insurers have their own websites where you can get detailed quotes under different scenarios of cover, deductible etc.

I just got a quote for Silver £96 a month with a larger deductable. I'm a relatively younger man though. I was surprised there was no question regarding pre-existing conditions? Maybe that comes later

[Sheryl]

Yes. A quote is not a guarantee they will insure you, just an indication of what it will cost if they do.

 

Each insurance company has its own application forms with questions about your medical history and current state of health. Based on the information provided, their underwriters will decide whether to (1) offer to insure you with no exclusions, (2) offer to insure you with exclusions or (3) decline to insure you. 

 

Note that failing to complete the application honestly can invalidate your policy.

 

Contrary to what some have said, insurance policies do not exclude "everything you've ever had".  They exclude coverage for things which, in the opinion of their underwriters,  put you at a greater risk than the average person your age. This is necessary because insurance is based on risk sharing and premiums are based on calculations of risk.    Rates for 60 year olds, for example, reflect the projected aggregate annual medical costs for a homogenous group of 60 years olds (all at no more than normal risk for illness)  spread out evenly across the entire cohort. If they insured some who were clearly at more than average risk to begin with, those calculations would no longer be accurate.

 

It is the future risk factor that is of interest to the insurer. They could care less about your childhood tonsillectomy, an appendectomy 15 years ago,  or broken bones from a past  accident that have now fully healed. None of those things significantly change your risk  profile (though you should of course describe them if asked). But currently having diabetes, or having had cancer or a heart attack, does.

 

Insurers vary in exactly what they ask on their application forms and how they work with that information. Some will seek to make more detailed assessments of risk in people with common chronic problems like hypertension, diabetes etc, by asking detailed questions to gauge how well controlled the condition is. Others will not. 

 

Sometimes an insurer will agree to insure someone with higher than average risk factors at an individualized, much higher premium. Many will not, it is a lot of work for them to come up with such an individualized rate and usually not worth it as the result will be so high  that most people will opt against accepting the policy.  It is simpler to just offer the usual premium and exclude the condition(s).

 

Sometimes exclusions will be for a limited time period and then lifted if there has been no recurrence of the condition.

[JetsetBkk]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

That must be including outpatient cover, which doubles costs and is seldom worth it.

 

Cigna for a say 70 year old man inpatient only (which includes day surgeries, scans, outpatient cancer treatment)  will be around 4,500, can get it below 4K by taking some deductible. Better to go to the Cigna site to get more accurate quote and play around with options like deductible, The site you mention just gives a very rough idea. It is NOT a quote from the actual insurance company.  Pretty much all the insurers have their own websites where you can get detailed quotes under different scenarios of cover, deductible etc.

Yes, you're right. In my list of 22 quotes from various companies provided by NowCompare.com there were two close together from Cigna of about $US9,000. I missed a cheaper quote - inpatient only - of around $US5,250.

 

The outpatient-included quotes had a maximum cover limit of $US10,000.

 

[JetsetBkk]

5 hours ago, meatboy said:

as I am registered with a government hospital 15minutes away IT WOULD suite me,but with so much history the past 11yrs.i might have to have an extra 0 to my premium.

This group policy will cover pre-existing medical conditions, but not for the first 6 months of cover.

 

See Basic level of cover, items 3. and 4.

 

Basic Level of Cover:

1. 500,000 Baht annual limit.
2. Inpatient cover ONLY.
3. Covers pre-existing medical conditions after the waiting period.
4. Standard waiting periods apply (30 days for all medical claims and 180 days for short-list of medical conditions*).

[JetsetBkk]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

<snip>

 

Contrary to what some have said, insurance policies do not exclude "everything you've ever had". 

 

<snip>

 

I'm guessing that sentence was aimed at me!

 

Here're the words from the Regency For Expats brochure that I received. Their quote was the cheapest:

 

"We will not cover the following:
1. Any claim relating directly or indirectly to any medical condition or related condition for which you have received treatment, had symptoms of, had knowledge existed or should have known existed, or you sought advice for prior to your date of entry (preexisting medical condition).
2. Any claim relating directly or indirectly to an incident, injury or illness which you were aware of at the time you purchased this insurance and which could reasonably be expected to lead to a claim."

 

I think that covers "everything you've ever had", and a bit more! 

 

[JetsetBkk]

On Thursday, April 26, 2018 at 12:31 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

<snip>

 

And another important detail that remains un-addressed -- as mentioned above -- is the choice of hospital issue. Would a plan participant be able to use ANY government hospital, or only some one designated based on where they live.

 

<snip>

 

"Members are allowed to go to any government hospital they choose. They have a choice of over 1,000 hospitals, including the one our king was treated at....the Siriraj Hospital."

 

 - from an email I received from Bangkok Insurance Brokers after I asked that direct question.

 

 

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, JetsetBkk said:

 

I'm guessing that sentence was aimed at me!

 

Here're the words from the Regency For Expats brochure that I received. Their quote was the cheapest:

 

"We will not cover the following:
1. Any claim relating directly or indirectly to any medical condition or related condition for which you have received treatment, had symptoms of, had knowledge existed or should have known existed, or you sought advice for prior to your date of entry (preexisting medical condition).
2. Any claim relating directly or indirectly to an incident, injury or illness which you were aware of at the time you purchased this insurance and which could reasonably be expected to lead to a claim."

 

I think that covers "everything you've ever had", and a bit more! 

 

Pre-existing means by definition, present at the time your policy started. It is not the same as a past problem. A problem you had in the past that was fully resolved, with no permanent change to your risk profile, is  not pre-existing because it did not exist when the policy began.

 

If you broke your arm as a child, healed and then have a new accident after taking out an insurance policy, this is NOT a pre-existing condition, at least not by any reasonable interpretation, and I have never heard or a reputable international insurer trying to claim otherwise. If however your broken arm left you with a permanent deformity, or had not healed at the time you got your policy, that would be pre-existing and  nto covered.

 

in practice scrutiny as to whether a claim should be disallowed on grounds of pre-existing condition is most intense if a claim is made in the first year of coverage, or  in case of things known to have long lead-ups (like heart disease), the first couple of years.

[4MyEgo]

On 4/26/2018 at 2:02 PM, Monomial said:

 

I signed up for more information, and at the end was told the target premium was around 3000 baht per month. Since this is about twice what I was expecting for the coverage, it seems that they are definitely biasing the premiums towards older retirees.  At these rates, they seem well aware that the target market is strictly the older segment.  I can't imagine anyone under 50 considering this policy at these prices.

 

I am still interested, but will probably choose less expensive options until I reach the age where a program like this becomes cost effective.

 

That does sound expensive, considering I was just quoted by my broker to get a policy that covered me in a private hospital in Thailand for up to $1.2 million with David Shield, inpatient only cost 4,400 baht, however I am 57 and am considering it as I don't need worldwide coverage which is double that amount. 

[4MyEgo]

6 hours ago, JetsetBkk said:

 

I'm guessing that sentence was aimed at me!

 

Here're the words from the Regency For Expats brochure that I received. Their quote was the cheapest:

 

"We will not cover the following:
1. Any claim relating directly or indirectly to any medical condition or related condition for which you have received treatment, had symptoms of, had knowledge existed or should have known existed, or you sought advice for prior to your date of entry (preexisting medical condition).
2. Any claim relating directly or indirectly to an incident, injury or illness which you were aware of at the time you purchased this insurance and which could reasonably be expected to lead to a claim."

 

I think that covers "everything you've ever had", and a bit more! 

 

You should have a look at David Shield's policy, it is a bit kinder on pre-existing conditions, although it is based on individual circumstances and at least they are prepared to have a listen, i.e. if you haven't had a problem with your pre-existing condition for 5 years, they might insure you, depends on the pre-existing condition and compare it as opposed to shutting you down on the spot like others do. 

[scubascuba3]

You should have a look at David Shield's policy, it is a bit kinder on pre-existing conditions, although it is based on individual circumstances and at least they are prepared to have a listen, i.e. if you haven't had a problem with your pre-existing condition for 5 years, they might insure you, depends on the pre-existing condition and compare it as opposed to shutting you down on the spot like others do. 

I've never heard of David Shield. Is it a broker? Do you have a link?

[4MyEgo]

5 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

14 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

You should have a look at David Shield's policy, it is a bit kinder on pre-existing conditions, although it is based on individual circumstances and at least they are prepared to have a listen, i.e. if you haven't had a problem with your pre-existing condition for 5 years, they might insure you, depends on the pre-existing condition and compare it as opposed to shutting you down on the spot like others do. 

I've never heard of David Shield. Is it a broker? Do you have a link?

I too hadn't heard of them until my broker put me onto them, link below, if you want to know who my broker is, PM me and I will give you the details, although I do recall at the time of writing this, you have to get in before 64, I think ?

 

http://www.davidshield-intl.com/

[Sheryl]

New to me as well. I think until recently they only insured Israelis, maybe now branching out.

 

Do they have direct payment arrangements with Thai hospitals?

[Sheryl]

Correction: never mind the question about direct billing, I see that

 

"Members carry their insurance on a patent-pending magnetic card. We pay for members' health services directly, in real time, by loading funds to the card online; our members receive health services through the swipe of a card, with no out-of pocket expenses or claims to be filed for reimbursement. Cashless international health insurance is simply not available anywhere else."

 

I would love to hear more about how this works. Is the card readable with an ordinary credit card reader (or whatever those machines are called)?

 

[Monomial]

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Correction: never mind the question about direct billing, I see that

 

"Members carry their insurance on a patent-pending magnetic card. We pay for members' health services directly, in real time, by loading funds to the card online; our members receive health services through the swipe of a card, with no out-of pocket expenses or claims to be filed for reimbursement. Cashless international health insurance is simply not available anywhere else."

 

I would love to hear more about how this works. Is the card readable with an ordinary credit card reader (or whatever those machines are called)?

 

 

They say on their website it is a MasterCard, so I would guess it is usable whenever a hospital has  merchant account capable of accepting credit cards.

 

 

Quote

http://www.davidshield-intl.com/pages/6.aspx

 

We provide the only international health insurance which does not requier traditional reimbursement. How? Our insurance membership card is actually a MasterCard, the DavidCard.

 

[scubascuba3]

I too hadn't heard of them until my broker put me onto them, link below, if you want to know who my broker is, PM me and I will give you the details, although I do recall at the time of writing this, you have to get in before 64, I think ?

 

http://www.davidshield-intl.com/

As i hadn't heard of them i tried to look at reviews. Very little on them, some bad reviews, no good reviews. I was hoping to find them on trustpilot or similar but nothing. No reviews on googlemaps

 

[altcar bob]

Policies should read ' we will take your money,but not cover you for anything while living or breathing'

[4MyEgo]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

As i hadn't heard of them i tried to look at reviews. Very little on them, some bad reviews, no good reviews. I was hoping to find them on trustpilot or similar but nothing. No reviews on googlemaps

 

I agree, reviews are very few.

 

I have been looking for an insurance provider since I got here, on and off for 2.5 years.

 

I don't trust any health insurance provider, not that I have had any before as I was on the government system back in Australia. On one occasion I was treated for an emergency (heart attack) and I didn't pay a cent, on another occasion I had a choice to go onto a waiting list (que) which could have taken up to 12 months, or go to a private hospital and pay out my pocket, so I decided to go to the private hospital and it was done in 3 weeks, i.e. day procedure and paid for it myself, i.e. $6,000

 

The thing I have found with most international health insurance providers from what I have researched is that they offer you what you really don't need and hike the premiums up.

 

Getting the claim paid is always going to be a hit and miss I believe, as we know some might try to delay things if it wasn't cut and dry, or look for a way out, that said, I have just about read every International Health Insurance providers plans and policy's, and this one comes up trumps for me personally.

 

They are relatively new to expat health insurance, however have been around in other areas and from what I have read are backed by big insurance partners in Thailand who are rated 9 out of 10 on the top insurers list.

 

In my dealings with insurance reps in the past I have found them to lie outright, recently I was dealing with an insurance company direct by email and asked if I wanted to get elective surgery carried out in Australia as opposed to Thailand, would I have that choice, i.e. if I paid for my own expenses to get there would the insurer cover the elective surgery costs, and his reply was YES, however in the policy it stated different, i.e. I was covered for up to 180 days in the country I was travelling in when away from my usual place of residence (upon an emergency), well that for me is different from what I was told, like I said, I don't trust any of them, and that plan was going to cost me $3,400USD which I would have purchased. Now when travelling I will take travel insurance, that won't cost me $1,700USD the difference in the plan cost from David Shield Vs the other insurance company which I won't name due to defamation laws here in Thailand.

 

David Shield is a big company, the only bad review, if not the only review that I read on David Shield was from a guy who broke his arm and was told as the claim was under 200 EUROS, he had to pay that 1st and then make a claims for anything above that amount, now that could be he didn't understand he had an excess to pay, I don't know the full story and always two sides to a coin.

 

The other insures I have read reviews on, are all to expensive in my opinion and the reason for that is, they load their plans with too much stuff, keep it simple I say, and as I couldn't find an insurer (in wording) saying if I wanted elective surgery in the country I nominate, I decided to concentrate on cover in Thailand, in the event of an emergency or required elective surgery, with no excess to pay out, this my broker found with David Shield, the plan I chose might not suit all, but for me the glove fits, as does the price, however when it comes to claiming, that will have to be a waiting game, and hopefully I never have to claim, just peace of mind and no out of pocket expense, one hopes, this is why we look at getting insurance right.

 

If your not comfortable with any insurers, self-insure as I have done for the past 2.5 years and hope luck is on your side, but I have kept searching, its very time consuming, and complex with all the reading, in the hope you find one that you feel fits what you want, bearing in mind, if its not clear what you want in the policy of the plan your looking at, walk away from it, because from my experience, even the bloke that told me he worked for the insurer company, I believe lied to me, i.e.he could have been a contractor, although he told me he worked for the company and was just looking to make his commission cheque and trailer, (paranoia ?) i.e. even though he had the company email address after his name, means nothing to me as I used to contract for a multi-national company and had the companies email address after my name, it looks better for the company, but that doesn't make me an employee and the last thing I would want is the company saying to me in the event of a claim is, we are sorry but he was a contractor and doesn't work for us any longer, and we he said is not correct, you should always read the plan on the policy, get my drift.

 

Having been around, and when I questioned him on the policy wording, he said, the plan does cover me in Australia for elective surgery for up to 180 days, its just not in the plans wording, so I said, ok then, show me where it is, and we will go forward from there, never heard from him again until 3 days ago, Hi, haven't heard from you for a while, just wondering if you still want to proceed or if I can assist you further, obviously he totally forgot who he was talking too or what we were talking about, so I resent him the email, still haven't heard back from him.

 

Good luck either way in picking one, step right up, pick an insurer, any insurer and go for the ride, but seriously, we are ducks in the open season all year around if we don't have some kind of cover here in Thailand. As for getting claims paid, well that's going to be something to hopefully not see in the future because we are all going to remain healthy, aren't we :)

[4MyEgo]

9 hours ago, Sheryl said:

New to me as well. I think until recently they only insured Israelis, maybe now branching out.

 

Do they have direct payment arrangements with Thai hospitals?

Hi Sheryl

 

To answer you first question read below, as I also see you were provided with the answer for the latter question.

 

http://www.davidshieldgroup.com/aboutus.asp

[KiChakayan]

On 4/26/2018 at 11:02 AM, Monomial said:

 

I signed up for more information, and at the end was told the target premium was around 3000 baht per month. Since this is about twice what I was expecting for the coverage, it seems that they are definitely biasing the premiums towards older retirees.  At these rates, they seem well aware that the target market is strictly the older segment.  I can't imagine anyone under 50 considering this policy at these prices.

 

I am still interested, but will probably choose less expensive options until I reach the age where a program like this becomes cost effective.

 

To give you an idea, the premium on my group international unlimited UN/WIPO policy is about 17/18 thousand Bahts per month (65% of it being paid by my former employer). The population's age is in the 30 to 90 years range. So yes 3000 for a very low max would imply that they target the elderly group. Moreover who else could be interested? Those who stay here on semi legal visa schemes wouldn't bother anyway.

[pearciderman]

On 4/25/2018 at 11:08 AM, Sheryl said:

What is really needed, badly, is a way for resident expats to buy into either the 30 baht scheme or SS scheme,

 

There is for those who have worked for 6 months or over here. For those who came here to retire, they are old enough to know better and should have made provisions for any healthcare needs.

 

Why should a retiree who has paid nothing into either scheme be allowed to benefit from them?

 

Health insurance should be factored into everyone's monthly budget. It is not up to the Thai government to provide cheap cover for those who can not afford or won't pay for insurance.