Court decides: AirBnB illegal in Thailand for daily and weekly rental

[jspill]

On 16/05/2018 at 3:29 PM, Mattd said:

Personally I will give a big thumbs up for this IF it is enforced.

Weekdays sees me staying in a condo in central Bangkok, approx. 1km from Nana area and the last few months one of the owners on the same floor has been short term renting their unit, last lot were some young kids on holiday, 4 of them in the one condo, absolutely no thought for anybody else, coming home drunk at 3 am, slamming doors, shouting in the corridors and so on.

Most others there are working (myself included) and have to get up around 6 am, the last thing you need or want is this!

If it was a hot young chick staying short term on Airbnb and you met her by the pool and ending up banging her, you'd love Airbnb

 

Why live 1km from Nana a huge beer bar & sex tourism area if you don't like drunk men coming home at bar closing time, 3am

[jspill]

You can still use Airbnb, all condos do is put up some signs at most, there's no enforcement, it's Thailand

 

If questioned just say you're a friend of the owner / staying 30+ days etc. Stay in a condo in an area with lots of foreign faces, e.g. Sukhumvit

 

I'm typing this from an Airbnb condo #thuglife

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎5‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 3:24 AM, sjaak327 said:

Drinking the cool aid ? If a platform like Airbnb would disappear, it would do absolutely zero to the tourist numbers. There is ample competition already and ample avenues for visitors to find accommodation. And despite all the bull, often the cheapest way to get a room is deal with the renter directly, without any third party like Airbnb, booking,com or agoda. Cut out the middle man, as money always sticks there, logic at work. 

It's called "grasping at straws", as those that have bought into the ST rental market face seeing their money vanish.

After all, it's not them suffering the hordes as they count their baht.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, jspill said:

Why live 1km from Nana a huge beer bar & sex tourism area if you don't like drunk men coming home at bar closing time, 3am

I always stayed in an hotel right next to the Plaza, and never had a problem with drunk men coming home at bar closing time, 3am. I wasn't one of them either. 

[Mattd]

9 hours ago, jspill said:

Why live 1km from Nana a huge beer bar & sex tourism area if you don't like drunk men coming home at bar closing time, 3am

The reason I stay in this condo is very simple, it is a 500m walk from the office that I work in, in Ruamrudee, so even though it is close to Nana it is in an area that is mainly servicing folks in the CBD.

As for the woman at the pool, nah, I'll pass on that thanks.

Condo buildings are not hotels and should not be used as such.

[fullcave]

On 5/16/2018 at 3:20 PM, zaphod reborn said:

It doesn't apply to single-unit homes.  

Really, and how do you know that it does not apply to single-unit homes? 

[zaphod reborn]

1 hour ago, fullcave said:

Really, and how do you know that it does not apply to single-unit homes? 

The building has to have more than 4 rooms which are subject to individual tenancy.  That's a requirement for the hotel act to apply.  That's how I know.  If you are renting more than 4 rooms out of a single-unit house, you need a hotel license.  I don't think anyone on Air BnB is selling that kind of short-term rental, but it would apply to a single-unit house if that hypothetical situation existed.

[mommysboy]

Par for the course in Thailand, I'm afraid.  It could also be classed as illegal work.  Typical killjoy stuff.  Keeps prices high too.

 

I guess the point is a condo is not a guest house. 

 

How this will apply to the humble house owner who is merely renting out a couple of rooms in a house now and then is anyone's guess.  Providing he lives in it, my hunch is there won't be a problem.  Enforceability would also be difficult.

[newnative]

10 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's called "grasping at straws", as those that have bought into the ST rental market face seeing their money vanish.

After all, it's not them suffering the hordes as they count their baht.

 

      Several of us here have run the numbers and it doesn't seem you will be making much on a short-term condo rental--even if it is rented every day, which is doubtful--unless you do all the nasty work yourself--clean the condo, wash the filthy sheets and towels, put your life on hold to be on call all the time to meet the illegal renters and get them checked in and then get them checked out again and check for damage.   Then do it all over again next renter.  Plus all the paperwork.  Sounds like a nightmare to me.  If you are handling 15 or 20 condos you can hire staff but a big operation might also be one that gets noticed, garners lots of complaints, and maybe gets turned in to the authorities and shut down. 

[bkk6060]

51 minutes ago, newnative said:

      Several of us here have run the numbers and it doesn't seem you will be making much on a short-term condo rental--even if it is rented every day, which is doubtful--unless you do all the nasty work yourself--clean the condo, wash the filthy sheets and towels, put your life on hold to be on call all the time to meet the illegal renters and get them checked in and then get them checked out again and check for damage.   Then do it all over again next renter.  Plus all the paperwork.  Sounds like a nightmare to me.  If you are handling 15 or 20 condos you can hire staff but a big operation might also be one that gets noticed, garners lots of complaints, and maybe gets turned in to the authorities and shut down. 

Sorry, from being here and experiencing it and talking to people, I disagree.

The Base is a perfect example.  If you negotiate, you can get a one year lease here for about 15,000 a month.

You can rent it out for over 1,000 b a day.

Multiply that times 10 to 15 properties and it is a very good profit.

 

As far as Airbnb, pretty funny.  I just ran this (1,457 b per night for 4 nights) and there are several ST rentals at The Base.  Illegal?? HAHA.

 

It can be big big money if managed correctly.  Which is why so many are doing it.

[newnative]

3 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Sorry, from being here and experiencing it and talking to people, I disagree.

The Base is a perfect example.  If you negotiate, you can get a one year lease here for about 15,000 a month.

You can rent it out for over 1,000 b a day.

Multiply that times 10 to 15 properties and it is a very good profit.

 

As far as Airbnb, pretty funny.  I just ran this (1,457 b per night for 4 nights) and there are several ST rentals at The Base.  Illegal?? HAHA.

 

It can be big big money if managed correctly.  Which is why so many are doing it.

     I think you misread my post or I wasn't quite clear.  I meant that I doubt you would make much money with just one condo you bought to rent out short-term--and if you were subletting and having to deduct the 15,000 baht rent from your profit, even less.          

     With your example, the landlord is paying 15,000 baht monthly rent for the condo and if he rents it illegally every single day for 1,000 baht--doubtful at a lot of condos--he would only be clearing 15,000 baht--before the expenses of condo cleaning, laundry cleaning, water and electric utilities, internet/cable, Airbnb costs, damage and breakage, and so on.   Don't see how that leaves much profit.  Even at 1500 baht a night you only make 30,000 before daily rental expenses if it rents every single day.  Every day it sits empty reduces that profit. 

      When I had my long-term legal renter at The Base I made about 23,000 baht a month after deducting the condo maintenance fee (tenant paid water, electric, and internet/cable).  All of my mentioned figures are for just 1 condo.  I agree with you that you could make money with 15 to 20 condos (small profit of 1 condo multiplied by 15 or 20) and I guess some people are doing that at The Base.  

[Airalee]

23 minutes ago, newnative said:

     I think you misread my post or I wasn't quite clear.  I meant that I doubt you would make much money with just one condo you bought to rent out short-term--and if you were subletting and having to deduct the 15,000 baht rent from your profit, even less.          

     With your example, the landlord is paying 15,000 baht monthly rent for the condo and if he rents it illegally every single day for 1,000 baht--doubtful at a lot of condos--he would only be clearing 15,000 baht--before the expenses of condo cleaning, laundry cleaning, water and electric utilities, internet/cable, Airbnb costs, damage and breakage, and so on.   Don't see how that leaves much profit.  Even at 1500 baht a night you only make 30,000 before daily rental expenses if it rents every single day.  Every day it sits empty reduces that profit. 

      When I had my long-term legal renter at The Base I made about 23,000 baht a month after deducting the condo maintenance fee (tenant paid water, electric, and internet/cable).  All of my mentioned figures are for just 1 condo.  I agree with you that you could make money with 15 to 20 condos (small profit of 1 condo multiplied by 15 or 20) and I guess some people are doing that at The Base.  

I agree with you completely.

 

I just spend the last half hour perusing hipflat and Airbnb for the base and agree that it wouldn’t be a good Airbnb investment.  First, I’d have to buy a place for about $100,000 (I’m gonna use USD for my own sake).  Those will rent for $500/mo long term and $25-30/night on Airbnb.  I’m trying to compare similar units and not cherry pick the cheapest unit for purchase and the most expensive for rent.

 

Anyhow, all I need to do is see how few reviews most of the Airbnb rentals have received which tells me that most are sitting empty and have not had many customers.   Sure, there are a few with more reviews but those units are the exception and not the standard.  Then I can look at the wide open schedule where there might be 2-3 days booked for the future but nothing else.  I haven’t even begun to deduct expenses (hoa fees, agency fees if using an agent to rent it out, etc etc)

 

In order to own 15-20 condos to rent out would require a huge outlay of cash that most people just don’t have.  To try to do it with just one condo would be a foolish investment IMHO.

 

Also, the Base is new and shiny now.  In a couple years, there will be newer shinier condos to choose from.  

[newnative]

5 minutes ago, Airalee said:

I agree with you completely.

 

I just spend the last half hour perusing hipflat and Airbnb for the base and agree that it wouldn’t be a good Airbnb investment.  First, I’d have to buy a place for about $100,000 (I’m gonna use USD for my own sake).  Those will rent for $500/mo long term and $25-30/night on Airbnb.  I’m trying to compare similar units and not cherry pick the cheapest unit for purchase and the most expensive for rent.

 

Anyhow, all I need to do is see how few reviews most of the Airbnb rentals have received which tells me that most are sitting empty and have not had many customers.   Sure, there are a few with more reviews but those units are the exception and not the standard.  Then I can look at the wide open schedule where there might be 2-3 days booked for the future but nothing else.  I haven’t even begun to deduct expenses (hoa fees, agency fees if using an agent to rent it out, etc etc)

 

In order to own 15-20 condos to rent out would require a huge outlay of cash that most people just don’t have.  To try to do it with just one condo would be a foolish investment IMHO.

 

Also, the Base is new and shiny now.  In a couple years, there will be newer shinier condos to choose from.  

     Yes, it seems to be a lot of work and expense for not much profit on a single unit. The Base is a popular condo and its units likely rent more often than other projects but it's got around 1000 units--a lot of competition for those short-term renters.  I doubt many of the short-term units are rented every single day.  After a certain percentage of vacant days each month you'd be making more money with a long-term tenant.

[JAZZDOG]

41 minutes ago, Airalee said:

I agree with you completely.

 

I just spend the last half hour perusing hipflat and Airbnb for the base and agree that it wouldn’t be a good Airbnb investment.  First, I’d have to buy a place for about $100,000 (I’m gonna use USD for my own sake).  Those will rent for $500/mo long term and $25-30/night on Airbnb.  I’m trying to compare similar units and not cherry pick the cheapest unit for purchase and the most expensive for rent.

 

Anyhow, all I need to do is see how few reviews most of the Airbnb rentals have received which tells me that most are sitting empty and have not had many customers.   Sure, there are a few with more reviews but those units are the exception and not the standard.  Then I can look at the wide open schedule where there might be 2-3 days booked for the future but nothing else.  I haven’t even begun to deduct expenses (hoa fees, agency fees if using an agent to rent it out, etc etc)

 

In order to own 15-20 condos to rent out would require a huge outlay of cash that most people just don’t have.  To try to do it with just one condo would be a foolish investment IMHO.

 

Also, the Base is new and shiny now.  In a couple years, there will be newer shinier condos to choose from.  

Agreed, US$ 100K would be a good price IMHO for a north unit, south units are very hot. One would need to target at least US$ 15K/year before expenses to make it worthwhile. With 75% occupancy, optimistic given 1100 units, one would need to yield US$ 1670/month or US$ 55/ night and that's not happening. For $1670 or 52000baht you can rent a very nice place LT. Remember this is not passive income, it's a royal pain in the arse. Another good point is these places get run down quickly with this turn over. Another popular example is Unixx and it is showing age after only a year or so.

[KevinCorr]

Very inconvenient for those of us who have booked a visit and now must find a hotel suddenly along with thousands of others.

 

[newnative]

3 hours ago, KevinCorr said:

Very inconvenient for those of us who have booked a visit and now must find a hotel suddenly along with thousands of others.

 

Boo hoo

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, newnative said:

      Several of us here have run the numbers and it doesn't seem you will be making much on a short-term condo rental--even if it is rented every day, which is doubtful--unless you do all the nasty work yourself--clean the condo, wash the filthy sheets and towels, put your life on hold to be on call all the time to meet the illegal renters and get them checked in and then get them checked out again and check for damage.   Then do it all over again next renter.  Plus all the paperwork.  Sounds like a nightmare to me.  If you are handling 15 or 20 condos you can hire staff but a big operation might also be one that gets noticed, garners lots of complaints, and maybe gets turned in to the authorities and shut down. 

Economic bubbles are caused by people buying into a falsehood, and in this case it's the ?illusion that renting condos on a daily basis is a gold mine. If people always did due diligence before jumping into the next "big thing" the subprime disaster would not have happened and there might be no dispute about renting condos on a daily basis in LOS.

[reenatinnakor]

On 5/17/2018 at 4:02 AM, diddygq said:

You obviously have never used AirBnB's in Thailand or anywhere for that matter. They are generally nicer and cheaper than most hotels. I use AirBnB every couple months to rent out a brand new, super modern condo in Hua Hin/Cha Am. It has two rooms, two bathrooms, living room, and a full western kitchen. 1,200 baht after the service charge and cleaning fee. Usually there are 4 or 5 of us so at 200-300 baht per person it's cheaper than a hostel. 

I use airbnb and uber and lyft all the time in the US and other places. Airbnb is a godsend .... stay in a crappy holiday inn or best western for 150 usd or a room with wifi and shower for 30usd? It's a no brainer. But my experience in Thailand is that I can get a decent room for 600 to 1k.... no matter where I turn up for a walk in. Or I use booking.com and get somewhere for under 30 usd. Have never needed to use airbnb since the other methods are so cheap anyway. 

[Wake Up]

On 5/16/2018 at 9:49 AM, shady86 said:

How can they regulate this? Airbnb is not located in Thailand and acting as a middle man. There is no money transaction done between owner and tenant too.

The people renting and the property is located in Thailand. How can they not regulate this? You mean Thailand can not regulate its home soil?  

 

 I for one am thrilled people cannot rent condos on a temporary basis. Best news this year. Get rid of all the Air BnB landlords and make them buy a hotel and comply with hotel laws if they want to be real estate tycoons. 

????????????

[Wake Up]

On 5/21/2018 at 10:52 PM, KevinCorr said:

Very inconvenient for those of us who have booked a visit and now must find a hotel suddenly along with thousands of others.

 

More inconvenient for people who rent condos as a home long term and have to put up with you and short term holiday people. But not anymore. Yes yes yes yes yes. Goodbye and good riddance?????

[DrTuner]

If the bib bothered it would be dead easy. Just start going to the airbnb houses by reserving them one by one. True and tested method with the hookers.

[Airalee]

9 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

If the bib bothered it would be dead easy. Just start going to the airbnb houses by reserving them one by one. True and tested method with the hookers.

Don’t the police get a “commission” for writing traffic tickets?  Perhaps if they were given a percentage of the fine levied they would be more proactive.

[Wake Up]

On 5/16/2018 at 9:49 AM, ThorD72 said:

<deleted>@* shitty (pardon the colours) overpriced hotels,.. just gotten used to Airbnb,.. how’s is this gonna turn out,.. ?

 

Pardon me but I am happy the shitty Air bnb users are going to be banned from Thailand. Cheap tourists in a few days or weeks are bad for owners of condos, management of condos and long term tenants of condos. That is what a hotel is for. Hope it turns out that Thailand and other countries stop this crap tourist way around paying for a decent hotel of which there are plenty. 

[Athens]

On 5/22/2018 at 5:38 AM, reenatinnakor said:

I use airbnb and uber and lyft all the time in the US and other places. Airbnb is a godsend .... stay in a crappy holiday inn or best western for 150 usd or a room with wifi and shower for 30usd? It's a no brainer. But my experience in Thailand is that I can get a decent room for 600 to 1k.... no matter where I turn up for a walk in. Or I use booking.com and get somewhere for under 30 usd. Have never needed to use airbnb since the other methods are so cheap anyway. 

Agree, cheaper than airbnb, check booking.com, and no problem with 24 h reporting to immigration

[Lancelot01]

On 5/16/2018 at 9:19 AM, Athens said:

Forget AirBnb, book a Hotel, just check thy have a valid hotel Licens. remember 24 h reporting is done by Hotel. Even Airbnb has to comply with Thai Law operating in Thailand.

And no extra charges for cleaning and administration. Sometimes as much as two nights stay.

[balo]

It depends what you're looking for. If I need to stay more than one week, I prefer a condo over a hotel.

[JAZZDOG]

I have used both Airbnb and booking.com as my hosting websites and to book when I travel. Difference is if it is peak season booking.com collects no deposit and therefore their cancelation/no show rate is near 70%. Small hotels have a hard time with that program and basically use those bookings like a walk in. Maybe you have a room, maybe not. If you want to make sure you will have a room pay up front with Airbnb. You arrive and go straight to your room. It is a far better company to deal with. With booking.com make sure to call the hotel or confirm on their website. Had 7 rooms thru booking no show just today that reserved in the last two days. Airbnb rarely any problem. Pretty sure all hotels experience the same. Really screws us up as we stay 90% full.

[rexall]

This is related, and the crackdown apparently extends way beyond Airbnd to all guesthouse and small hotel operators country-wide. I have been staying at a guesthouse in Chiang Mai this week.  The entrance is kept shut as are the entrances to seemingly 95% of the other guesthouses in Old Town due to owners fear of the current gov crackdown. They have currently formed a loose association and with their attorney meeting with some officials--not to protest--but to request a dialog and for cops to call a moratorium on the crackdown while seeking a solution to regularize and bring the guesthouses into compliance.
--
 

"Guesthouses," usually small family-run hotels have been a cottage industry in Thailand for decades serving budget travelers and lending charm and character to tourist areas. Many travelers prefer the small-scale intimacy, charm and personal service to the more sterile and cold-blooded commercial hotels. To each their own, of course. However, this industry, the livelihoods of generations of guesthouse owners and operators are at risk as the gov moves to make it difficult or impossible for such places to continue to operate in Thailand. Not only does this effect the guesthouse operators but also budget travelers who will have fewer options and my be entirely priced-out of visiting Thailand.  Of course, in our opinion, it would be better for the big hotel operators/owners (many of whom are members of the government) to work hard to provide better service and lower prices rather than colluding to squash an entire industry comprised mostly of innocents with little or no defense against the gov and big business. While undoubtedly there are many levels to this story, I rarely ask my facebook friends to share posts, but I make an exception this time. If you love these little guesthouse facilities or are just opposed to abuse of power from gov and big business PLEASE SHARE this with friends and colleagues. Thanks!  -Rex[/size
--
THE NATION- Facing a crackdown on unregistered accommodations, the operators of 200 small hotels and guesthouses in Chiang Mai’s Muang district on Friday jointly hired a team of experienced lawyers to petition the court to legalise their businesses, as well as asking for help from related agencies . . .  Read more => http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/breakingnews/30346274

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, rexall said:

This is related, and the crackdown apparently extends way beyond Airbnd to all guesthouse and small hotel operators country-wide. I have been staying at a guesthouse in Chiang Mai this week.  The entrance is kept shut as are the entrances to seemingly 95% of the other guesthouses in Old Town due to owners fear of the current gov crackdown. They have currently formed a loose association and with their attorney meeting with some officials--not to protest--but to request a dialog and for cops to call a moratorium on the crackdown while seeking a solution to regularize and bring the guesthouses into compliance.
--
 

 

As I walked through the old town C M yesterday, I saw just how many guesthouses there are. If the government actually shuts them down it will gut the old town of business.

I can't believe they don't know what would happen if they enforce the rule about parking etc, so it leaves only the suspicion that it is actually about the situation that I will not name, but everyone knows about.

[bkk6060]

On 5/29/2018 at 1:41 AM, JAZZDOG said:

I have used both Airbnb and booking.com as my hosting websites and to book when I travel. Difference is if it is peak season booking.com collects no deposit and therefore their cancelation/no show rate is near 70%. Small hotels have a hard time with that program and basically use those bookings like a walk in. Maybe you have a room, maybe not. If you want to make sure you will have a room pay up front with Airbnb. You arrive and go straight to your room. It is a far better company to deal with. With booking.com make sure to call the hotel or confirm on their website. Had 7 rooms thru booking no show just today that reserved in the last two days. Airbnb rarely any problem. Pretty sure all hotels experience the same. Really screws us up as we stay 90% full.

Well, that's too bad.

As a consumer I much prefer Booking.com as I can not show or cancel with little or no fee.

And, in 10 years staying in 100's of hotels all over the world I have never called the hotel or not had a reservation when I did showup.

Maybe the "maybe you have a room, maybe not " is your policy which is sure a way to get bad reviews and chase away customers.