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EricTh

How to say fall down

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22 hours ago, surfdog said:

So, I always understood เป็นลม as a feeling of about to faint, in using conversation you could say ร้อนมาก แม่จะเป็นลม

I have never heard it used in describing a person who has already fainted.

But according to my dictionary เป็นลม ‘to faint’ but editor avoided classifying as a verb... so you are correct, but I would not be confident usimg myself
personally, because I tend to pick up my Thai from conversation, and have never heard it used as a verb

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"I have never heard it used in describing a person who has already fainted."

 

Yes everybody use it, just simply say เป็นลม no need of เป็นลมแล้ว  unless you need to extend the description of the context or your feeling but need to put ไป altogether as เป็นลมไปแล้ว.

เป็นลม is a thai verb, that's correct and can be either already fainted or is fainting but not likely use for going to faint.  

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23 hours ago, eric67 said:

It depends on how you fall...

 

ล้ม lóm is to fall from an upright position, to tumble (it's got nothing to do with fainting, that is เป็นลม bpen lom), you use this one when you stumble and fall down walking or riding a bike

 

ตก dtòk is to fall straight down from a certain height, like when you fall from a tree

This explanation is the clearest so far.

 

 

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On 5/19/2018 at 7:54 AM, surfdog said:

 'if I accidentally fall down'.

 

Sorry just noticed you had an 'if' in there.. I would need more context to translate the 'If' there are several ways of presenting theoretical situations in Thai, or at least give me a proper English sentence to begin with.  Theoreticals use the past tense, you would need "fell' and also the rest of the sentence: "If + S + V2, then _________"

Yes, I know we use past tense in theoretical situations, I was just being lazy. The context is....

 

"If I accidentally fell down while walking, I might get injured by the sharp object protruding from the ground."

 

Is this sentence considered upper intermediate level? My Thai is not good enough to make a complete sentence.

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เป็นลม looks like an explanation to me,  similar to เป็นหวัด describing the condition of a person so not likely found in a Thai -Thai dictionary. The problem is a condition of unconsciousness.  This description applied to someone who has fainted is fair enough and more accurate than ตก. When someone has fainted, often people say “Stand back give her some air” is that perhaps why fainting might be associated with ลม?

 

To declare that this word our that word cannot possibly apply is wrong in my view, like a ‘Chinese whisper’ language changes all the time, sometimes from people trying to be creative and novel and sometimes from misunderstanding, wrong today could be correct tomorrow if it catches on. 

 

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2 hours ago, tgeezer said:

เป็นลม looks like an explanation to me,  similar to เป็นหวัด describing the condition of a person so not likely found in a Thai -Thai dictionary. The problem is a condition of unconsciousness.  This description applied to someone who has fainted is fair enough and more accurate than ตก. When someone has fainted, often people say “Stand back give her some air” is that perhaps why fainting might be associated with ลม?

 

To declare that this word our that word cannot possibly apply is wrong in my view, like a ‘Chinese whisper’ language changes all the time, sometimes from people trying to be creative and novel and sometimes from misunderstanding, wrong today could be correct tomorrow if it catches on. 

 

one of my professors would say 'language is fluid' but at the same time tell people that some language can't exist because it isn't in his Oxford grammar book.  :)  

 

 

2 hours ago, EricTh said:

Yes, I know we use past tense in theoretical situations, I was just being lazy. The context is....

 

"If I accidentally fell down while walking, I might get injured by the sharp object protruding from the ground."

 

Is this sentence considered upper intermediate level? My Thai is not good enough to make a complete sentence.

actually as soon as I typed that I realized there are many situations where a present tense verb could be used if the situation is immediate.. e.g. "If I fall down, please call an ambulance."  

 

There is several ways of translating that sentence... I'm afraid one would need more context, like mentioned before, where you fall, on what, makes a difference, like if it was the road, then say the road, or sidewalk, etc.  Also is the situation immediate, or is hypothetical, like is the conversation about bad sidewalks in Thailand you are having at your house, or are you walking, see that disaster waiting to happen, flag down a policeman to take a look?  Explaining to him, "Hey what would happen if I fell on that sharp piece of rebar there.?"

 

And do you really talk like that?  Your sentence looks very generic, thus it is lacking the emotion or context to translate it well.

 

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4 hours ago, surfdog said:

 

There is several ways of translating that sentence... I'm afraid one would need more context, like mentioned before, where you fall, on what, makes a difference, like if it was the road, then say the road, or sidewalk, etc. 

 

 

What I am trying to say is that there are lots of these sharp objects protruding from the ground along the road that I walk along. They were left behind by careless construction workers, I am afraid that I might fall down accidentally and get pierced by these sharp objects so I want them removed. They don't have seem to have much safety precautions in Thailand.

 

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9 hours ago, EricTh said:

 

What I am trying to say is that there are lots of these sharp objects protruding from the ground along the road that I walk along. They were left behind by careless construction workers, I am afraid that I might fall down accidentally and get pierced by these sharp objects so I want them removed. They don't have seem to have much safety precautions in Thailand.

 

you mean rebar? - locally the guys who build my house called it เหล็กอ้อย, or you talking about aluminum sheet roofing?  You might want to call it เศษสังกะสี - aluminum scraps.  Keep in mind สังกะสี translates as zinc, but I think of those sheets as aluminum.. I am not an expert.  I guess many are also galvanized steel?  

 

Both are worth quite a bit of money, I think this problem solves itself.  That is a gold mine, worth so much more than plastic bottles.  They left it behind as a donation to the homeless.

 

This seems much more like a situation for complaining:

ทำไมเหล็กอ้อยยังออกถนนครับ อันตรายมากครับ

Why is there rebar still coming out of the road?  It's very dangerous.

 

but reading it again.. the rebar is not coming out of the road or curb is it?  It is just scattered along a dirt path?  The sentence above would not be correct then.

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45 minutes ago, surfdog said:

 

This seems much more like a situation for complaining:

ทำไมเหล็กอ้อยยังออกถนนครับ อันตรายมากครับ

Why is there rebar still coming out of the road?  It's very dangerous.

 

 

When you tell Thai people that 'it's dangerous', they don't understand why it is dangerous unless you give some specifics why it is dangerous like in my original sentence.

 

I've seen many Thai play with their handphone while riding a bike, talking on the phone while driving their cars at very slow speed and blocking traffic from behind, if you talk to them it's dangerous, they don't understand why it's dangerous. It's just like telling smokers that smoking is dangerous but they keep on smoking.

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Perhaps they don’t see any danger in it, most people look where they are treading. A Complaint on appearance would be more effective in my opinion. ไม่น่าดู ไม่เรียบร้อย etc. might seem a better reason to have it gone. 

ทำไมเขาวางเศษของการก่อสร้างไว้อย่างนี้ ไม่เรียบร้อย or ไม่น่าดูเลย  might get the ball rolling. 

I haven’t checked that phraseology with a native speaker yet. 

 

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ไม่เรียบร้อย  I would think of more as not appropriate, in respect to morals or normal behavior

 ไม่น่าดูเลย I think is way off in this context, it is more like describing something you wish you hadn't seen, I'm sure construction trash isn't that disturbing, unless you are just arriving after EricTh fell and impaled his arm on a rebar spike.

 

ไม่น่าชื่อ is a polite expletive, - "UNBELIEVABLE", just by putting that in caps and raising your volume, you give all the condescending strength of someone important who should be listened to.  

 

Add in a bit of ไม่น่าชื่อ!  สมัยนี้คนไทยยังทำแบบนี้  a little bit of attack on their nationalism, then to your super hypothetical situation inserted for ErikTH - สมมุติว่านักท่องเที่ยวเดินพลัดเหล็กเสียบคอจะทำยังไงอาครับ  What you going to to do when some tourist trips and takes a piece of steel through the neck??

 

Then of course our beloved tourism, please don't don't damage the reputation of tourism.  

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, EricTh said:

 

When you tell Thai people that 'it's dangerous', they don't understand why it is dangerous unless you give some specifics why it is dangerous like in my original sentence.

 

I've seen many Thai play with their handphone while riding a bike, talking on the phone while driving their cars at very slow speed and blocking traffic from behind, if you talk to them it's dangerous, they don't understand why it's dangerous. It's just like telling smokers that smoking is dangerous but they keep on smoking.

Not all Thai people talk on their phones when driving, those that do are trained professionals.  ?  Today say pregnant lady with 2 year old texting while parking her little moped... oh god why.

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Apparently I am less proscriptive than you surfdog, I am describing the offence caused by not doing the job properly. I consulted with a friend who said that what I said was a little untidy, he suggested วางสิ่งของระเกะระกะ and วางสิ่งของไม่เป็นที่เป็นทาง 

That was in response to what I had written which as I said was a criticism of the workers. ไม่น่าดู means “I” don’t want to see it, it is an opinion. 

I suppose you mean ไม่น่าเชื่อ I like to use that at golf when I hit a good shot, a one putt for instance. The first time I used it they were amused so I assumed that it wasn’t something a Thai would say. I say it as often as I can and assume that it has caught on because my playing partners sometimes use it. My generation are all retirees so don’t necessarily have modern parlance, it is not unusual for them to use ขออภัย.  

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yes sorry for the misspelling above, (เชื่อ)

There is no reason why you can’t use ไม่น่าเชื่อ for a great shot in golf, the tone of voice and cadence plus context determines the meaning. So it can be playful or in what I was going for above: condescending.

I think what your native speaker friend is provided is great Thai, but very prescriptive (polite).

They didn’t just “put” stuff there in an inefficient disorganized manner, ErikTh’s tone is angry, they abandoned that trash in a dangerous and stupid way and they should know better. (condescending).





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I was reflecing on your interpretation of prescriptive (polite) when I awoke this morning and on reading what I wrote noticed my spelling 'proscriptive'!

Thai has not helped my English; I tend to picture words and once was corrected for saying "out of Kinter" when I meant"out of kilter" !

 

My feeling about me saying 'unbelievable!" in Thai with ไม่น่าเชื่อ was because it was English, I hadn't experienced it used in that way.

Rather like your asking ' what would you do if someone had his throat pierced by a piece of rebar'. It is so specific that I wonder that Thai might not feel himself up to dealing with such a situation.

My feeling is that the less said, the greater the chance of engaging a person in dialogue.

So my approach is to identify the problem and address it. Eric Th fears that if he falls he might be injured by debris left by bulilders. To convey that properly one would need to go into a lot of detail, why is he likely to fall for a start. This is why I mentioned that people tend to look where they tread, I feel that danger is not what they would see in the situation.

I made my starting point unsightlyness. ไม่น่าดู is my opinion, I apply it to places, or people meaning no more than 'I' don't like its looks. I don't understand how you can read more into so few words.

I have said วางไว้ which I now feel is wrong because it says that those who put it there meant to use it again. ทิ้ง is a better word I think. วางเกะกะ is to intentionally block the way when in fact, we know that they were careless so วางเกะกะ seems to me censorious.

เรียบร้อย is to do something properly isn't it? Good manners are เรียบร้อย good dress is เรียบร้อย etc.

 

 

 

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what did Bill Gates say about the wires and how was that discussed and translated into Thai, that would work.

But really I think ErikTh situation will solve itself, steel and roofing is gold to trashpickers, it maybe that Eriks footpath is on private property, the only reason that the scraps are untouched.


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