Guest houses must now get a hotel license--any info?

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, peterb17 said:

Mixed feelings here - so many whinge on about the lack of enforced health and safety rules in the Kingdom - then when perhaps the government tries to crack down on maybe unlicensed hostels / guesthouses which could be total death traps if there was a fire- more whinging .

You cant have your cake and eat it .   

The only deaths I can remember were caused in hotels that chained their fire exits.

I've stayed in many guesthouses, and the most dangerous thing was probably the unearthed shower heaters. If they were to insist on proper electrical inspections I'd be for it, but that doesn't seem part of it.

[blackcab]

On 5/25/2018 at 7:33 PM, cmsally said:

Actually the parking space rule seems to have disappeared...

 

It's definately still in existence, it's more a case of whether it's being followed locally.

 

The overall problem was recognised years ago. In 2016 the Ministry of the Interior issued a Ministerial Regulation Prescribing Descriptions of Other Types of Building Used for a Hotel Business Operation B.E. 2559 (2016) under the Building Control Act B.E. 2522 (1979). That Regulation came into effect on 19th August 2016.

 

The purpose of the Regulation was to give unlicensed hotels a route to obtaining a hotel license. The Regulation gives a "grace period" of five years for unlicensed hotels to apply for a hotel license.

 

The main problem is that any building being taken down this path must comply with specific parts of the building regulations on the date the construction or alteration permit is granted.

 

That means the building boundary, building height, the gap beteeen any neighbouring buildings, the building set back and car parking must all comply.

 

If the building is too tall, too close to the road, etc then you have to demolish the illegal part of the structure in order to progress with your application. If you don't have enough car parking spaces then you must provide them.

 

The issue with car parking spaces is that the regulations are complex. The exact number of spaces required also depends on the buildings typology, as some buildings are mixed use.

 

I apologise, because I don't know the exact requirements in Chiang Mai, but for comparison, in Bangkok the regulations are:

 

For 1 - 30 rooms: 10 spaces
For up to the next additional 70 rooms (31 - 100 rooms in total): The above, plus 1 extra space per 5 additional rooms

For over 100 rooms: All of the above, plus 1 extra space per 10 additional rooms.

 

This means for a hotel with 150 rooms they would need 29 spaces (10+14+5). A building with 9 rooms, however, needs 10 spaces.

 

So how does an illegal shophouse hostel/hotel comply, and start on the route to getting a hotel license?

 

It can't. It is literally impossible to achieve. How does the average shophouse hotel get 10 car parking spaces?

 

The question is, is the government really going to close the majority of illegal hotels? In some areas that would actually mean closing the majority of all hotels.

[cmsally]

10 minutes ago, blackcab said:

 

It's definately still in existence, it's more a case of whether it's being followed locally.

 

The overall problem was recognised years ago. In 2016 the Ministry of the Interior issued a Ministerial Regulation Prescribing Descriptions of Other Types of Building Used for a Hotel Business Operation B.E. 2559 (2016) under the Building Control Act B.E. 2522 (1979). That Regulation came into effect on 19th August 2016.

 

The purpose of the Regulation was to give unlicensed hotels a route to obtaining a hotel license. The Regulation gives a "grace period" of five years for unlicensed hotels to apply for a hotel license.

 

The main problem is that any building being taken down this path must comply with specific parts of the building regulations on the date the construction or alteration permit is granted.

 

That means the building boundary, building height, the gap beteeen any neighbouring buildings, the building set back and car parking must all comply.

 

If the building is too tall, too close to the road, etc then you have to demolish the illegal part of the structure in order to progress with your application. If you don't have enough car parking spaces then you must provide them.

 

The issue with car parking spaces is that the regulations are complex. The exact number of spaces required also depends on the buildings typology, as some buildings are mixed use.

 

I apologise, because I don't know the exact requirements in Chiang Mai, but for comparison, in Bangkok the regulations are:

 

For 1 - 30 rooms: 10 spaces
For the next additional 30-70 rooms: 1 space for every 5 rooms

For over 100 rooms: 1 space per 10 additional rooms.

 

This means for a hotel with 150 rooms they would need 29 spaces (10+14+5). A building with 9 rooms, however, needs 10 spaces.

 

So how does an illegal shophouse hostel/hotel comply, and start on the route to getting a hotel license?

 

It can't. It is literally impossible to achieve. How does the average shophouse hotel get 10 car parking spaces?

 

The question is, is the government really going to close the majority of illegal hotels? In some areas that would actually mean closing the majority of all hotels.

Most of what you mention seems to be checked in the building permit section (which is under control of the Tesabahn), but I have not heard them checking on car parking spaces. Instead they seem very keen that the place should fulfill the green space quota. In fact we brought it up at a local meeting about larger hotels needing more parking spaces than they had and were told by local officials that parking spaces were not a requirement for licensing now.

[blackcab]

1 minute ago, cmsally said:

Most of what you mention seems to be checked in the building permit section (which is under control of the Tesabahn), but I have not heard them checking on car parking spaces. Instead they seem very keen that the place should fulfill the green space quota. In fact we brought it up at a local meeting about larger hotels needing more parking spaces than they had and were told by local officials that parking spaces were not a requirement for licensing now.

 

For the smaller hotels with good transport links, that's a very good thing. But are they saying a 200 room hotel needs no parking spaces at all? If it needs spaces, there must be a formula. Any local architect or engineer would know what it is.

 

Overall I think trying to get as many hotels licensed as possible is the best way forward.

[cmsally]

Many years ago the formula was every 3 rooms needed 1 parking space. I don't know if that has changed or is just being ignored. There is a brand new hotel just licensed close to us. It has about 60 rooms , yet only 4 parking spaces!

[heybruce]

7 hours ago, cmsally said:

Many years ago the formula was every 3 rooms needed 1 parking space. I don't know if that has changed or is just being ignored. There is a brand new hotel just licensed close to us. It has about 60 rooms , yet only 4 parking spaces!

Rules don't apply to people with money and connections, rules only apply to little people.  Closing clean, friendly, affordable guesthouses will drive a lot of business to the expensive hotels.  Of course it will also drive a lot of tourists away from Chiang Mai.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 8:27 PM, heybruce said:

Rules don't apply to people with money and connections, rules only apply to little people.  Closing clean, friendly, affordable guesthouses will drive a lot of business to the expensive hotels.  Of course it will also drive a lot of tourists away from Chiang Mai.

 

Bagpackers will not use big expensive hotels, so the local government has to make a choice to abide by the law or ignore it re parking. Those tourists don't have cars themselves.

Closing the guesthouses would eliminate almost all the young western tourists that currently visit C M. It would also close Khao San area to tourists in Bkk.

 

Seems this is an example of unintended consequences, yet again in LOS, where they make rules without any investigation as to the effect. Just like fining people 100,000 baht and a year in jail for smoking on the beach.

[IsaanFam]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Closing the guesthouses would eliminate almost all the young western tourists that currently visit C M. It would also close Khao San area to tourists in Bkk.

 

Well, so the new laws make sense in every they, aren't they. We are being permanently replaced.

[simon43]

4 rooms or less, good luck with making any money

 

I seem to recall that ex #2 managed fine with her 10-room guesthouse by telling the Tessabahn that 6 rooms were being redecorated (which they were not), and handing over 2,000 baht...  She managed to make a decent profit for several years with 10 rooms fully booked most of the year (she ran a transit guesthouse next to Phuket airport).

[cmsally]

It seems that more and more guest houses are closing or at least trying to appear closed with a sign saying so. I haven't heard of the pressure groups being at all successful.

God help anyone who took out a loan to start up this kind of business in the last year or two.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, cmsally said:

It seems that more and more guest houses are closing or at least trying to appear closed with a sign saying so. I haven't heard of the pressure groups being at all successful.

God help anyone who took out a loan to start up this kind of business in the last year or two.

Regarding loans; that would be almost all new guest houses, and a lot of older ones.  Rich families don't get into the guest house business.

[chickenrunCM]

On 5/23/2018 at 11:59 PM, IsaanFam said:

The law. The envelopes. The Thailand.

 

Basically I think the law always said that this would require a hotel license. Just like you must pay 10,000 THB fine if you drive at nights with a red plate (so I was told multiple times),

 

I guess the situation with your friend is just a single incident and he/she knows what to increase to make problems go away.

How can be a single inident, between 300 and 400 guesthouses/hotels were shut down in Chiang mai the last 4 weeks, only in our street 5 houses

[JAZZDOG]

18 minutes ago, chickenrunCM said:

How can be a single inident, between 300 and 400 guesthouses/hotels were shut down in Chiang mai the last 4 weeks, only in our street 5 houses

400 hundred guesthouses closed, 400 families lose jobs/income, 400 owners not getting any rent, zero articles that I can find. It would seem like a front page story. Show me an article please.

[JAZZDOG]

ROOMS TO RENT

[cmsally]

https://mgronline.com/local/detail/9610000056208

 

Article from Manager about Chiang Mai guest house closures. I believe Channel 3 news was up here yesterday filming and today over 100 owners went on a protest to Provincial Office.

There is a very active LINE group . I will post details later for anyone interested.

[heybruce]

Weeks after it began it makes the news:    http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/news/hundreds-small-medium-hotels-closed-police-chiang-mai-crackdown/

[elektrified]

4 hours ago, JAZZDOG said:

400 hundred guesthouses closed, 400 families lose jobs/income, 400 owners not getting any rent, zero articles that I can find. It would seem like a front page story. Show me an article please.

They were saying between 150-200 on the news this evening. And at least that many in Phuket or Pattaya (I forget which one). Lots of closed signs in the city today. Also on FB I read first-hand reports that some guests were relaxing when the police showed up and ejected everyone and closed down the businesses. The owners were ordered to find accommodations for the people and also pay their transport and costs for relocating. Seems quite serious.

[JAZZDOG]

3 hours ago, elektrified said:

They were saying between 150-200 on the news this evening. And at least that many in Phuket or Pattaya (I forget which one). Lots of closed signs in the city today. Also on FB I read first-hand reports that some guests were relaxing when the police showed up and ejected everyone and closed down the businesses. The owners were ordered to find accommodations for the people and also pay their transport and costs for relocating. Seems quite serious.

Meanwhile another 75 people get their brains splattered today due to lack of enforcement on the highways. How clueless can this Government be.

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, elektrified said:

They were saying between 150-200 on the news this evening. And at least that many in Phuket or Pattaya (I forget which one). Lots of closed signs in the city today. Also on FB I read first-hand reports that some guests were relaxing when the police showed up and ejected everyone and closed down the businesses. The owners were ordered to find accommodations for the people and also pay their transport and costs for relocating. Seems quite serious.

If that's true, it's going to have a major impact on future bookings. Once the word gets out, who is going to come here if on a low budget and thinks they may be ejected and having to pay more for an hotel?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Just in case:  If you know of anyone who needs to quickly relocate a bunch of people to legal/licensed accommodation then send me a message;  if know of several places with accommodation at various price levels, from basic guesthouse level, to mid-range hostels, to full holiday rental homes.  (not my places)

 

Especially at the lower end there is lots of availability.  (So that also makes me think that the impact so far isn't too big, or else there'd be a wave of Chinese/Farang homeless people looking for a room. ? ) 

[Loaded]

drove around the moat and Tha Pae Gate this afternoon and didn't see a closed hotel.

[thomo1978]

29 minutes ago, Loaded said:

drove around the moat and Tha Pae Gate this afternoon and didn't see a closed hotel.

Walked through some of the sois in the old city last night (moonmuang soi 7 area) and saw probably a dozen guesthouses closed.  With my thai gf so she could read many of the signs which were in thai language only.

[LomSak27]

Loaded and Thomo, thanks for your on the scene reporting. I'll be up in 10 days. This time of year I would just turn up, and not call ahead. Now I will give them a call, but will wait 5 days to see if the dust has settled.

 

I stay on soi 1 Ratchadamnern, behind the Montri, hope they haven't shut those down.

[cmsally]

14 minutes ago, LomSak27 said:

Loaded and Thomo, thanks for your on the scene reporting. I'll be up in 10 days. This time of year I would just turn up, and not call ahead. Now I will give them a call, but will wait 5 days to see if the dust has settled.

 

I stay on soi 1 Ratchadamnern, behind the Montri, hope they haven't shut those down.

Not much in the way of closed signs but some of them seemed open on soi 1.

A couple of places seemed to have put up monthly rental signs  (in a bid to deter those checking for daily rental licenses). A place on the corner in the soi had closed all its doors which is unusual but they could have been still open .

[LomSak27]

They over built on that soi and I believe one or two were closed when I was up there a year ago, so that may not be caused by the latest clusterpuck. 

So monthly rentals are looked upon  more favorably than nightly rents. Yeesh. Good for me however. I just re-retired and was going to stay, use the VIP as a base while looking for condo or apartment to rent. Well nothing to do but watch and wait.  Might put this off and come up in July.

[JAZZDOG]

It wont be the GH owners as much as the wealthy building owners who rent out the space that brings this witch hunt down. The government is not only depriving them of rent but also devaluating the real estate which will have little demand. What really sucks  is that Thai families have worked 16 hour, seven days a week to build a business and the government with no clear cause is wiping them out. Seventy five people a day die on the roads due to lack of inforcement. How many die a week due to the fault of a GH? 

[johnoko]

From what I understand the new law should come into affect this coming Aug. but the problem is that the police is now already closing down business. Even the ones that already are in the process of obtaining a hotel license. And its not that the guesthouses are not willing to implement changes but it takes time to get the building permit approved and also to arrange financing for the project. So that is why some guesthouse owners went to petition the government to ask if they could have the time or some more time to implement the required changes. And also for dispensation for long established business which for example cant meet the 30% green requirement. To my knowledge most people don't have any problem implementing the new safety  standards. And it has long been unclear as from when the law will come into affect as the date has been moved several times and this was never communicated clearly. Even government offices weren't able to give out this information or would give conflicting statements

 

[cmsally]

56 minutes ago, LomSak27 said:

They over built on that soi and I believe one or two were closed when I was up there a year ago, so that may not be caused by the latest clusterpuck. 

So monthly rentals are looked upon  more favorably than nightly rents. Yeesh. Good for me however. I just re-retired and was going to stay, use the VIP as a base while looking for condo or apartment to rent. Well nothing to do but watch and wait.  Might put this off and come up in July.

Monthly rentals come under a different license and at the moment they are checking for hotel license which is daily rental. The signs are an effort to divert them.

I am pretty sure the VIP in soi 1 was open as usual.

[chickenrunCM]

11 hours ago, cmsally said:

Not much in the way of closed signs but some of them seemed open on soi 1.

A couple of places seemed to have put up monthly rental signs  (in a bid to deter those checking for daily rental licenses). A place on the corner in the soi had closed all its doors which is unusual but they could have been still open .

more than 70% of guesthouses closed, small and large ones, what you see open are hotels, when i walk around within 400m radius i see 40 closed signs

 

[JAZZDOG]

34 minutes ago, chickenrunCM said:

more than 70% of guesthouses closed, small and large ones, what you see open are hotels, when i walk around within 400m radius i see 40 closed signs

 

What you all are seeing is just the price of licenses going up 300%. Tell me one thing that cant be bought in Thai$$land, one thing.