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Moving to Thailand, working online - what do I do?


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4 minutes ago, Loaded said:

According to Thai Rath, a Thai newspaper and not a gossip forum,

 

"... Fines totaling 265,000 baht or 1,600 baht per person are being paid before the stock traders will be repatriated back to China, reported Thai Rath. "

 

https://www.thairath.co.th/content/1277496

They fined the owner of the hotel for not doing the TM30 for his guests, had nothing to do with their work, was mentioned before already.

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Just now, darrendsd said:

And that's why there are crackdowns, because people openly admit on a public forum that they are not attending classes

 

Well done

Nah it's because Africans sell drugs while on Ed visa and that's a profession reserved for the police ^^

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1 minute ago, Loaded said:

Is it that self defence BS non-imm ED in Chiang Mai run by a military officer?

I'm reliably informed they don't care if you don't attend either

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Just now, jspill said:

Nah it's because Africans sell drugs while on Ed visa and that's a profession reserved for the police ^^

No it's because of idiots like you who think you are being clever admitting to total strangers that you don't attend to classes

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Just now, jspill said:

I'm reliably informed they don't care if you don't attend either

Tis true, but the current mafia's days are numbered. I wouldn't rely on this to support a future life in Thailand.

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8 minutes ago, elviajero said:

OMG, not this again!

 

The definition is not retarded when you understand its use and purpose. The definition is specific to the act that governs the employment of foreigners. It is worded that way to stop employers avoiding the need for a WP by claiming the foreigner is an "unpaid consultant" or similar.

 

You cannot apply that definition outside of that act to everyday activities. That would be absurd.

Actually this is one element I am in agreement with.. the law is retarded but not for the reasons that was put forward. 

The law is retarded because it attempts to define the term 'work' and uses the term being defined in the definition.. That in itself is a logic fail and in any sane country would be contested in law. 

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1 minute ago, jackdd said:

They fined the owner of the hotel for not doing the TM30 for his guests, had nothing to do with their work, was mentioned before already.

Exactly , please stop this nonsense now. 

 

They were not breaking any laws , the had the proper visa , they were working online , but the labor dep. who was present during the raid , could do nothing . 

 

And remember , they were  a big Chinese group , most of us work alone .

 

The Chinese challenged the Thai laws  and they won . Good for them .   

 

 

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

Yes of course I did, did you? 

 

Maybe one is not needed for personal stock trading but 166 people in the same building are obviously not doing personal stock trading are they?

 

They are obviously working for a company and it even states in the article that they were being paid for their work if they are being paid for their work then they are obviously being paid by a company, all 166 of them

What they are doing is not defined as work under the act. 

 

If theres one person doing something thats not defined as work, or if 166 are doing it, doesnt make it 'more' illegal. 
 

When the same thing happened with language teaching, which was work, they were arrested, charged and deported. 

The links have been provided countless times.. the Labour dept and the employment office, the people responsible for determining how the law should be interpreted, have stated on record that working online is work, and even blogging of vlogging without any thai customers or base, is work.

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4 minutes ago, balo said:

Exactly , please stop this nonsense now. 

 

They were not breaking any laws , the had the proper visa , they were working online , but the labor dep. who was present during the raid , could do nothing . 

 

And remember , they were  a big Chinese group , most of us work alone .

 

The Chinese challenged the Thai laws  and they won . Good for them .   

Because buying and selling  stocks isnt work according to the act. Its specifically excluded. 

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53 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

I really could tear you apart on everything you have written on that post but I just can't be bothered

You can't and never can, which is why you deflect the conversation!

 

53 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

The article about the Chinese being raided virtually disproves everything you have said about Digital Nomads but I dont expect you to admit you are wrong

 

I suggest you read that article, it might give you some insight about how the law or in that case lack of law actually works

 

From the article

 

"The tourists were in Thailand legally and despite it being known that each was paid for their online work there was nothing the Thais could do to arrest them or have them deported."

 

Are you still going to continue to insist that you are correct given that the authorities have admitted that they were not working illegally?

I will look in to the story,  but I expect it will only confirm what we already know that the authorities are not prosecuting tourists that are working online. It will definitely not prove your case.

Edited by elviajero
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All of the competitors must legally also pay the same fees.. Or are you asking for a 'fully legal' service that breaks the law and doesnt pay your income tax and social costs on your earnings ??
 
And yes there are multiple other BOI companies doing this.. Either google them or wait until they pop up in my facebook feed again.. 
 
They probably pay the same fees, but maybe they don't have the overhead Iglu has with their co-working spaces.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

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4 minutes ago, elviajero said:

You can't and never can, which is why you deflect the conversation!

 

I will look in to the story,  but I expect it will only confirm what we already know that the authorities are not prosecuting tourists that are working online. It will definitely prove your case.

I don't want to prove any case, I have never ever said it was legal or illegal,  I am not interested in if working online is legal or not, I have no idea if it is or isn't and don't care either way

 

What does bother me is that you continue to to insist that it is not without providing any proof apart from a outdated immigration act that does not mention or cater for online work

Edited by darrendsd
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1 minute ago, darrendsd said:

I don't want to prove my case, I am not interested in if working online is legal or not, I have no idea if it is legal or not and don't care either way

 

What does bother me is that you continue to to insist that it is not without providing any proof apart from a outdated immigration act

You're a funny guy

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11 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

working online is work

Working online to a Thai company is work and you have to pay tax to Thailand. 

 

Working online to your home country is also work but not in Thailand. Its only an internet line , the ISP is in Thailand , that's all .

Remove the ISP , and we'll move on to the next country with an internet line. 

 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

What does bother me is that you continue to to insist that it is not without providing any proof apart from a outdated immigration act

It is still the law regardless of when it was written.

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Just now, elviajero said:

It is still the law regardless of when it was written.

It's a outdated law that means even Immigration are unsure if working online is legal or not

 

When we start seeing convictions of people working online you can come back and say you were right, you may or may not be right, I have no idea

 

Until then .....

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1 minute ago, darrendsd said:

It's a outdated law that means even Immigration are unsure if working online is legal or not

 

When we start seeing convictions of people working online you can come back and say you were right, you may or may not be right, I have no idea

 

Until then .....

You can't be serious

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Just now, Loaded said:

You can't be serious

Show me a conviction of somebody working online because I don't recall ever seeing one

 

Show me a report of the any of the numerous co working spaces that now exist in this country being raided and everyone charged

 

 

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I want to challenge the system , I want to bring my laptop to an official at the labor dep, not a corrupted officer but someone high up who can confirm what I do is legal. I can show them my Norwegian bank account , and my business overseas . 

 

Then we can have a big press conference and tell the world that digital nomads are welcome to Thailand. 

 

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, balo said:

I want to challenge the system , I want to bring my laptop to an official at the labor dep, not a corrupted officer but someone high up who can confirm what I do is legal. I can show them my Norwegian bank account , and my business overseas . 

 

Then we can have a big press conference and tell the world that digital nomads are welcome to Thailand. 

 

 

 

 

 

sounds great but you haven't got the balls

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Just now, Loaded said:

sounds great but you haven't got the balls

If there is someone at the labor dep who actually speaks good English and understand what a digital nomad is , we can have a conversation , if not it would be a waste of time. 

 

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58 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

The labour department have been 100% clear every time. Immigration is not to police labour law. 

 

That's why they often have Labor officials with them when they feel there might be a violation of labor law.

 

"The raid yesterday by local police, tourist cops, immigration, local bank of Thailand representatives, the Department of Labor"

 

 

 

 

When they realize that there's no violation of labor law, of course everyone is free to go.

 

 

 

Though just waiting for the day one of you clueless Thai Visa Know-Nothings post up a raid from Labor officials and someone is arrested for breaking labor law for working illegally.

 

 

 

Of course that has never happened and is never going to happen.... because.... shock horror.... working remotely doesn't breach Thai Labor Law. Thankfully Thai immigration and labor officers actually know their own laws. ?

 

 

Now we know that makes you angry... really angry....  but hey, get over it. You're no one and matter not a jot. ?

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1 minute ago, balo said:

If there is someone at the labor dep who actually speaks good English and understand what a digital nomad is , we can have a conversation , if not it would be a waste of time. 

 

dancing backwards already

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26 minutes ago, elviajero said:

It is still the law regardless of when it was written.

http://www.chiangmailocator.com/wiki-can-digital-nomads-legally-work-in-thailand-p177

 

There are numerous instances discussed in this article where are farang needs or does not need a WP 

 

You will notice 1: 

1. A Digital Nomad works on his dropshipping shop in a co-working space in Chiang Mai. Work or no work, concern or no concern?

The verdict: " From the perspective of the Work Permit Office, the Digital Nomad is allowed to manage his online shop during the duration of his stay in Thailand without a work permit. Even if some of his customers are in Thailand, he is just continuing to do something he was doing before he came to Thailand anyway.

 

This is a definition of a DN, having a business in one country but working online in Thailand

 

Definition of stay means the time allowed on whatever visa he is on, there is nothing to say he cannot then get a new visa and carry on what he was doing previously

 

This is not some DN's blog, see who the answers are coming from

 

Is he right? Will another official say differently? Who knows and that's exactly the point being made, every official may give a different answer so you and nobody else can say for sure that a DN needs a WP 

 

 

Edited by darrendsd
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On 5/30/2018 at 7:28 AM, LivinLOS said:

You are not understanding what I wrote. 

 

BOI companies are free to engage workers in sectors like tech, without 4 (or whatever) thais per work permit. That results in multiple umbrella companies operating totally legally and with the express permission of the business plan by the BOI. 

 

iglu.net being one.. 

 

I am not in any way suggesting a online worker set up his own BOI. I am suggesting he uses the services of a BOI who pays his taxes and social costs, sorts out his visa etc etc for a very modest fee. 

 

An LTD company offshore will never be fully legal here.. May as well simply break the law. 

Ahh, got it.

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2 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

Will another official say differently? Who knows and that's exactly the point being made, every official may give a different answer so you and nobody else can say for sure

True , officials in different provinces will come up with different answers , just like TM31 are treated differently from city to city . 

 

And that's the big problem in Thailand , that's why we need to hear it from the big boss himself, in the labor dep, whoever that is , the one responsible for labor laws in Thailand must come forward and be clear. Or just rewrite the laws so there will be no confusion. 

 

 

 

 

 

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