Hotel Raids continue in South Pattaya

[Rimmer]

Troll post removed

[poanoi]

well, its time pattaya catches up with europe on safety regulations,

some hotel operators will be pushed out but at the same time

this is a good time to make use of all the new empty buildings.

with any luck, there will even be some holes where parking slots can be made

[JAZZDOG]

1 minute ago, poanoi said:

well, its time pattaya catches up with europe on safety regulations,

some hotel operators will be pushed out but at the same time

this is a good time to make use of all the new empty buildings.

with any luck, there will even be some holes where parking slots can be made

You obviously haven't read nor understand the scope and reach of the law as written. As written over 90% of hotels will be eliminated. If the building wasn't permitted as , and built as a hotel it is almost impossible to comply. Even if the building met set-back. parking and green space requirements (unlikely), the cost would be prohibitive to meet the remaining requirements. The results would mean stuffing 35M visitors into high priced rooms meant to house 3M. 

 

Reread the law and you tell me how the vast majority of existing hotels could ever comply without moving roads and magically creating space where non exists. Tell me where are you going to put 35M tourist with only 10% of the existing rooms. Two questions the government obviously failed to consider.

[poanoi]

7 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

You obviously haven't read nor understand the scope and reach of the law as written. As written over 90% of hotels will be eliminated. If the building wasn't permitted as , and built as a hotel it is almost impossible to comply. Even if the building met set-back. parking and green space requirements (unlikely), the cost would be prohibitive to meet the remaining requirements. The results would mean stuffing 35M visitors into high priced rooms meant to house 3M. 

 

Reread the law and you tell me how the vast majority of existing hotels could ever comply without moving roads and magically creating space where non exists. Tell me where are you going to put 35M tourist with only 10% of the existing rooms. Two questions the government obviously failed to consider.

send them up to isaan !

there will never come a perfect opportunity to transition to modern standards,

but today with all the empty buildings and strong baht comes as close as it gets.

the word that there isnt any room available will get out in a heartbeat,

tourists can carry on to neighboring countries

[JAZZDOG]

7 minutes ago, poanoi said:

send them up to isaan !

there will never come a perfect opportunity to transition to modern standards,

but today with all the empty buildings and strong baht comes as close as it gets.

the word that there isnt any room available will get out in a heartbeat,

tourists can carry on to neighboring countries

By God I believe you may have a future working for the government.

[sam neuts]

I appreciate your concern samneuts but you are also trying to make some money out of the situation by setting up a booking site. I know there are examples of hotel raids on your facebook page but most of them are old and it just seems to be confusing the situation by you putting up out of date articles. The gentleman in the article has already featured on your page several times and been discussing the situation on Thai visa (not knocking him- he seems like a nice guy who was treated very badly by the authorities.) Are you trying to help the situation or gather contacts to advertise your booking agency to?

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I am trying to bring some attention to what i think is an important issue.

I provide lots of free info and i am not charging anyone to list on my new site.

The site is being established to enable the many affected businesses to try and remain operating, as other OTA's offer no help or advice, and if you change your availability to 30 days you dissapear in their search.

This was set up due to a number of people that i know very well who have now effectively lost their businesses, laid off staff and are now in a bad position. YES they did do everything else legally for many years. NO it is not possible for them to get a Hotel Licence. The requirements are crazy when you have District and City Hall inspections.

If i do eventually make money from my project it will be because people need a new way to rent their rooms online and the current OTA systems will not help them.

As far as old information being posted. I have been researching and posting to give people an understanding that this has been going on since the amendment and the raids are not stopping. As I only recently started researching this, it would not be very good if i didnt start at the Hotel Act amendment introduction, so i post articles as i find them from this period.

The website we have, has lots of information in there just to give people information. No charges. No fees.

And we always suggest people visit the District Office for advice.

The website for listing property is FREE for at least 6 months and we will then charge less than other OTA's in commission.

I am here to help bring awareness to a subject that even when operators get caught, many are too concerned to talk openly.

If you dont believe the inspectioms are going on that really is your choice.

But, there are a number of my personal friends and aquaintances that have been affected badly, and after living in Thailand previously for many years and having a Thai family, this subject did catch my interest.

I am not sure what you think is confusing about my posts as the information is still in the relevant time period.

It took years before people started to put on a motorcycle helmet to avoid fines. But, now most do.

I am not here to cause a problem, but this is a very important issue.

I have requested information from the Ministry of Interior, Thailand Hotel Association and Tourist Authority of Thailand.

I have even contacted a number of Private Investigators. Request to obtain the information was initially no problem. Within a couple of days the information was no longer available.

So if anyone from any of these departments would like to either reply to our requests, or let businesess know what the situation is. PLEASE FEEL FREE.

If you think it is ok to treat business owners the way they are being treated, i am surprised as this is just not right. And it's not only ONE.



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[sam neuts]

well, its time pattaya catches up with europe on safety regulations,
some hotel operators will be pushed out but at the same time
this is a good time to make use of all the new empty buildings.
with any luck, there will even be some holes where parking slots can be made

I agree fully that safety regulations, inspections, licences, tax payments, TM30 submissions etc...should be in place.

But, if 3 out of 4 residential vacation villa rentals are unable to get a licence, when previously 4 out of 4 could trade legally with a different licence. (example)

A boutique hotel could previously operate and now can NEVER get a licence.

The balance is wrong as the regulations are applied to big purpose built hotel, or a guesthouse with the same codes. Impossible to comply.



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[sam neuts]

Check out Agoda report on the number of listings trading illegally.
Check out the over 1,000 applications for a Hotel Licence in Phuket.
Check out the guesthouses in Chiang Mai.
Check out the number of inspections in Pattaya, Krabi, Phi Phi, Hua Hin.
There are so many examples of what is going on.

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[sam neuts]

Check out Agoda report on the number of listings trading illegally.
Check out the over 1,000 applications for a Hotel Licence in Phuket.
Check out the guesthouses in Chiang Mai.
Check out the number of inspections in Pattaya, Krabi, Phi Phi, Hua Hin.
There are so many examples of what is going on.

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And if you think it is OK to put these businessmen in chains then please let me know which other countries do that, for an offence that could easily be solved by issuing a summons. Remember these are juat Hotel Owners/Managers doing the same job with the same legally correct licences for many previous years.

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[Pattaya46]

22 hours ago, fforest1 said:

> And what are the requirements to obtain this unicon of a hotel licence?

 

You need a pool, an elevator, green space,

the sidewalks have to be so so wide, the hallways have to be so so wide, you need a fire escape, you need to pass a environmental review,  //

 

Where did you get that information from?

I have read many articles about the Hotel Act and its last Amendment and saw nowhere requirement for a pool or an elevator, and the part on the green space looks more like an option than a requirement.

 

Other requirements you list are about safety, and then I think it's a good thing to have them respected.

 

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, JAZZDOG said:

Reread the law and you tell me how the vast majority of existing hotels could ever comply without moving roads and magically creating space where non exists. Tell me where are you going to put 35M tourist with only 10% of the existing rooms. 

Where does this 10% come from?

There was an article - quoted somewhere in this thread - that gave a ridiculous number of licensed hotels in Pattaya: 7 ! Other articles latter said that in fact there are hundreds of correctly licensed hotels in Pattaya, and that includes nearly all the bigger ones. I think/imagine it must be similar in other touristic cities, and so that would give a far bigger number of still available hotel rooms.

[sam neuts]

Where does this 10% come from?
There was an article - quoted somewhere in this thread - that gave a ridiculous number of licensed hotels in Pattaya: 7 ! Other articles latter said that in fact there are hundreds of correctly licensed hotels in Pattaya, and that includes nearly all the bigger ones. I think/imagine it must be similar in other touristic cities, and so that would give a far bigger number of still available hotel rooms.

The Agoda report will give you a better insight as they show the number of licenced listings and rooms/hotels available.

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[JAZZDOG]

11 minutes ago, sam neuts said:

The Agoda report will give you a better insight as they show the number of licenced listings and rooms/hotels available.

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Please post this agoda report, I cant find it, thanks

[sam neuts]

Please post this agoda report, I cant find it, thanks

I dont think I am allowed to post links on Thai Visa.

I think you are allowed to message me directly and i can give you the website link.

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[sam neuts]

[Pattaya46]

17 minutes ago, sam neuts said:

No idea what their numbers are worth, but the interesting thing is that it shows that there is in Pattaya more rooms in Licensed Hotel than in Unlicensed hotels.

The fact that even so there are lot of more unlicensed hotels than licensed ones just confirms that the big ones usually are Licensed.

[JAZZDOG]

13 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

No idea what their numbers are worth, but the interesting thing is that it shows that there is in Pattaya more rooms in Licensed Hotel than in Unlicensed hotels.

The fact that even so there are lot of more unlicensed hotels than licensed ones just confirms that the big ones usually are Licensed.

To believe this one must assume 32% of all hotels were permitted and approved as hotels before they were issued building permits. More absurd is the notion there are only 7,175 hotels in the country. There are nearly 17,000 listed alone on booking.com. Add to these all the rooms for rent above bars, gogos, message and cafes that don't use OTAs and the number doubles. It states hotels REGISTERED, not legally licensed under HA 2008. Take those numbers and you come up with 95% unlicensed hotels. Agoda has no inclination to admit 95% of it's host are unlicensed but that is close to the truth for all OTAs

[sam neuts]

4 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

To believe this one must assume 32% of all hotels were permitted and approved as hotels before they were issued building permits. More absurd is the notion there are only 7,175 hotels in the country. There are nearly 17,000 listed alone on booking.com. Add to these all the rooms for rent above bars, gogos, message and cafes that don't use OTAs and the number doubles. It states hotels REGISTERED, not legally licensed under HA 2008. Take those numbers and you come up with 95% unlicensed hotels. Agoda has no inclination to admit 95% of it's host are unlicensed but that is close to the truth for all OTAs

Agreed. A Bangkok Post reporter did a story back in 2016 prior to the amendment and came up with a figure of well over 500.000 illegal rooms for daily rental. With the amendment I don' t think anyone has a clue how many businesses will be affected if they don' t start to make some changes. Over 61,000 listed on Airbnb.

[sam neuts]

10 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

To believe this one must assume 32% of all hotels were permitted and approved as hotels before they were issued building permits. More absurd is the notion there are only 7,175 hotels in the country. There are nearly 17,000 listed alone on booking.com. Add to these all the rooms for rent above bars, gogos, message and cafes that don't use OTAs and the number doubles. It states hotels REGISTERED, not legally licensed under HA 2008. Take those numbers and you come up with 95% unlicensed hotels. Agoda has no inclination to admit 95% of it's host are unlicensed but that is close to the truth for all OTAs

I would assume they forgot to look at booking.com listings, even though they are very closely connected. It doesn't do their business much good, if current listings are changed to 30 days.

 

Thailand isn't particularly happy that companies like Airbnb don't pay tax either.

 

Big money involved, requires big action from all parties.

[sam neuts]

I don't know if I am allowed to post any links but here is one that may clear up the AirBnB part.

 

Please feel free to remove it if it is not allowed and readers will have to message me.

 

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/featured/2018/06/24/thai-law-case-closed-on-airbnb-heres-why-it-wont-matter/

[Chrisdoc]

I am trying to bring some attention to what i think is an important issue.

I provide lots of free info and i am not charging anyone to list on my new site.

The site is being established to enable the many affected businesses to try and remain operating, as other OTA's offer no help or advice, and if you change your availability to 30 days you dissapear in their search.

This was set up due to a number of people that i know very well who have now effectively lost their businesses, laid off staff and are now in a bad position. YES they did do everything else legally for many years. NO it is not possible for them to get a Hotel Licence. The requirements are crazy when you have District and City Hall inspections.

If i do eventually make money from my project it will be because people need a new way to rent their rooms online and the current OTA systems will not help them.

As far as old information being posted. I have been researching and posting to give people an understanding that this has been going on since the amendment and the raids are not stopping. As I only recently started researching this, it would not be very good if i didnt start at the Hotel Act amendment introduction, so i post articles as i find them from this period.

The website we have, has lots of information in there just to give people information. No charges. No fees.

And we always suggest people visit the District Office for advice.

The website for listing property is FREE for at least 6 months and we will then charge less than other OTA's in commission.

I am here to help bring awareness to a subject that even when operators get caught, many are too concerned to talk openly.

If you dont believe the inspectioms are going on that really is your choice.

But, there are a number of my personal friends and aquaintances that have been affected badly, and after living in Thailand previously for many years and having a Thai family, this subject did catch my interest.

I am not sure what you think is confusing about my posts as the information is still in the relevant time period.

It took years before people started to put on a motorcycle helmet to avoid fines. But, now most do.

I am not here to cause a problem, but this is a very important issue.

I have requested information from the Ministry of Interior, Thailand Hotel Association and Tourist Authority of Thailand.

I have even contacted a number of Private Investigators. Request to obtain the information was initially no problem. Within a couple of days the information was no longer available.

So if anyone from any of these departments would like to either reply to our requests, or let businesess know what the situation is. PLEASE FEEL FREE.

If you think it is ok to treat business owners the way they are being treated, i am surprised as this is just not right. And it's not only ONE.



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I just think that since you are putting yourself in the position of reporting the news, and at the same time having a potential financial interest, it seems to put you in a situation where, if the situation gets worse your booking website will become viable but if the situation gets better it will not be. As far as I can guess, most TV readers are expats and not short term tourists. We have seen a series of crackdowns by the army - bus stops in Pattaya, no riding in the back of pickups, registration and fingerprinting of migrant workers. Most are not thought out before and fall by the wayside Most people I think, hope this will quieten down likewise, especially considering the impact of closing so many places only months away from high season. Unfortunately for you, if that happens your website becomes obsolete which makes me question where you stand. As far as I can tell things have quietened down a bit. Your fbook page mentions a few weeks back raids now on Soi Bukhao, more news coming but no more news came from that. The gentleman you interviewed had already told his story on TV and as far as I can tell he was just sent home as the court didn't know what to do with him and no further has happened. You are posting on facebook but most of it is old articles that regular TV readers have seen before. You say it is to inform people but is it also to keep up with regular posts on the topic on your facebook page? You say your friends are getting raided but why wont they tell their story? They could do it anonymously like your other interviewee. People have lots of money tied up in their guesthouses and small hotels. Are they meant to make business decisions because you say your friends are being raided, even though there seems to be no other press coverage in the english language papers.

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[sam neuts]

To be honest i dont care if my website makes money or not. I am quite happy to invest a bit of time and money into something that i think is a big deal.

The situation is real and i think it will continue.

It is very easy for readers to find the names of many places inspected and email them directly.

My main suggestion is to check your situation with your local District Office, not City Hall.

If as you say many readees have their own guesthouses, surely it is worth checking.

For the villa owners i know. They are unable to get a licence, and a Hotel Licence is required for them to offer daily rentals. Direct from the authorities after requesting an inspection because they did not want to operate illegally.

I cant see the problem with showing lots of reports spread out over the last couple of years which may well affect lots of businesses in Thailand.

I also think it is a big deal to have to spend the night in a Thai jail and get cuffed and shackled for transport. This is a licence infringement we are talking about.

And a business successfully running for 8 years basically ruined as he is unable to offer daily rentals. Legally.

To me this is a big deal and that is why i have spent time researching not only the crazy situation. I also looked at the OTA's and realised they are not able to cater to individual countries requirements and that there maybe an opportunity to not only provide a better service but a cheaper and more useful to Thailand hosts.

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[BestB]

30 minutes ago, Chrisdoc said:

I just think that since you are putting yourself in the position of reporting the news, and at the same time having a potential financial interest, it seems to put you in a situation where, if the situation gets worse your booking website will become viable but if the situation gets better it will not be. As far as I can guess, most TV readers are expats and not short term tourists. We have seen a series of crackdowns by the army - bus stops in Pattaya, no riding in the back of pickups, registration and fingerprinting of migrant workers. Most are not thought out before and fall by the wayside Most people I think, hope this will quieten down likewise, especially considering the impact of closing so many places only months away from high season. Unfortunately for you, if that happens your website becomes obsolete which makes me question where you stand. As far as I can tell things have quietened down a bit. Your fbook page mentions a few weeks back raids now on Soi Bukhao, more news coming but no more news came from that. The gentleman you interviewed had already told his story on TV and as far as I can tell he was just sent home as the court didn't know what to do with him and no further has happened. You are posting on facebook but most of it is old articles that regular TV readers have seen before. You say it is to inform people but is it also to keep up with regular posts on the topic on your facebook page? You say your friends are getting raided but why wont they tell their story? They could do it anonymously like your other interviewee. People have lots of money tied up in their guesthouses and small hotels. Are they meant to make business decisions because you say your friends are being raided, even though there seems to be no other press coverage in the english language papers.

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You will find a lot of places are getting raided that do not make the news.

 

this is because tourist police does not inform news crew where and when so people are not expecting and caught red handed.

 

i can name at least fe dozen places and as latest as 3 days ago?

[sam neuts]

You will find a lot of places are getting raided that do not make the news.
 
this is because tourist police does not inform news crew where and when so people are not expecting and caught red handed.
 
i can name at least fe dozen places and as latest as 3 days ago[emoji6]

Unfortunately many of us, can name many places.

I just dont want to be the one doing the naming, and I have never stated that i was going to be a full time reporter bringing you the latest news. Just a discussion about what IS going on.

Everyone is welcome to contribute but if you had/have a business in Thailand i fully understand you not wanting to raise your head.

Not surprised the UK news hasnt reported it yet. I guess when enough places are gone people will take an interest.


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[sam neuts]

I do have an offer for all you non-believers though.

I know a villa owner who will quite happily give you a year lease, cheap.

You can easily have a revenue income of just under 1.8 million which will exempt you from having to go vat registered.

You can then operate YOUR daily rental from there, and see how you do.

All the marketing and advertising is there and i will even guarantee you a high occupancy for as long as you last.

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[BestB]

8 minutes ago, sam neuts said:

Unfortunately many of us, can name many places.

I just dont want to be the one doing the naming, and I have never stated that i was going to be a full time reporter bringing you the latest news. Just a discussion about what IS going on.

Everyone is welcome to contribute but if you had/have a business in Thailand i fully understand you not wanting to raise your head.

Not surprised the UK news hasnt reported it yet. I guess when enough places are gone people will take an interest.


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I thinks it’s starting to make rounds on internatinal sites, only the matter of time before it makes big news and if it does , then Thailand can kiss goodbye this year highseason as people will be to scared to book and loose money.

 

Difference is , all the news headlines read illegal hotels, to many it sounds as if unsafe or poorly built .

 

what people do not realize the only thing that makes it illegal is a lack of paper, a specific paper 

 

Those booking into 700 baht rooms do not expect to have parking and green zones and those booking into rooms above bar are well aware of what to expect.

 

i think the response and reaction from people would be different if term “ illegal” was either not used or properly explained as to how and why “illegal”

[sam neuts]

I thinks it’s starting to make rounds on internatinal sites, only the matter of time before it makes big news and if it does , then Thailand can kiss goodbye this year highseason as people will be to scared to book and loose money.
 
Difference is , all the news headlines read illegal hotels, to many it sounds as if unsafe or poorly built .
 
what people do not realize the only thing that makes it illegal is a lack of paper, a specific paper 
 
Those booking into 700 baht rooms do not expect to have parking and green zones and those booking into rooms above bar are well aware of what to expect.
 
i think the response and reaction from people would be different if term “ illegal” was either not used or properly explained as to how and why “illegal”

I agree. Which is why i try to make clear that the same licences everyone had before, is not the same as the one that is now required.

For the authority to be so strict in the enforcement is one thing. (a summons would be enough in most countries) but the treatment of those arrested for having the wrong peice of paper is a bit heavy handed.

These are just hotel owners/managers.

Not criminals.

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[BestB]

36 minutes ago, sam neuts said:

I agree. Which is why i try to make clear that the same licences everyone had before, is not the same as the one that is now required.

For the authority to be so strict in the enforcement is one thing. (a summons would be enough in most countries) but the treatment of those arrested for having the wrong peice of paper is a bit heavy handed.

These are just hotel owners/managers.

Not criminals.

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Keeping in mind , ones that were before are still valid and acceptable but for monthly rentals not daily.

 

meaning hotel is legal and safe for 30 days stay but unsafe and illegal for 1 night stay.

 

[Chrisdoc]

To be honest i dont care if my website makes money or not. I am quite happy to invest a bit of time and money into something that i think is a big deal.

The situation is real and i think it will continue.

It is very easy for readers to find the names of many places inspected and email them directly.

My main suggestion is to check your situation with your local District Office, not City Hall.

If as you say many readees have their own guesthouses, surely it is worth checking.

For the villa owners i know. They are unable to get a licence, and a Hotel Licence is required for them to offer daily rentals. Direct from the authorities after requesting an inspection because they did not want to operate illegally.

I cant see the problem with showing lots of reports spread out over the last couple of years which may well affect lots of businesses in Thailand.

I also think it is a big deal to have to spend the night in a Thai jail and get cuffed and shackled for transport. This is a licence infringement we are talking about.

And a business successfully running for 8 years basically ruined as he is unable to offer daily rentals. Legally.

To me this is a big deal and that is why i have spent time researching not only the crazy situation. I also looked at the OTA's and realised they are not able to cater to individual countries requirements and that there maybe an opportunity to not only provide a better service but a cheaper and more useful to Thailand hosts.

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My friend does have an interest in a guesthouse though in a far out of the way place but it does directly affect her. I really felt for what BestB went through and it was a terrible thing to happen and feel really sorry that he was just working away and then all happened. I am just trying to gauge the situation and was following Sam's fbook etc but I look at a post and say "That is bad news" then I see the article is from February". As mentioned, do hope will all just blow over like other measures.

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[sam neuts]

I do keep apologising for some old posts but they are needed to establish a pattern of change. The inspections are continuing and i thought it better to show what i find. I am a researcher not a reporter. First thing to do is to establish the number of inspections and closures since the amendment and show the reports. This is just the start of my FB etc and old reports from the begining of the amendment being passed are an important part.

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