Which Air conditioner to buy?

[moontang]

As stated, swamp requires Windows to be open.. https://www.epmechtech.com/swamp-coolers-require-open-windows/

The opposite of air-conditioning... And his link was for portables. 

 

[Yellowtail]

18 hours ago, moontang said:

As stated, swamp requires Windows to be open.. https://www.epmechtech.com/swamp-coolers-require-open-windows/

The opposite of air-conditioning... And his link was for portables. 

 

1

Or you could google "pre-cooling make-up air with evaporative cooling" 

 

I thought I was clear that I was talking about commercial and industrial units, not portable units. 

 

Incidentally, for commercial and industrial applications a vent with a backdraft damper is generally more effective than an open window.

[bankruatsteve]

35 minutes ago, jdvis0909 said:

which air conditioner will be best for use?

LG or Daikin. 

[moontang]

you gotta have them cleaned..twice per year in bkk.  Even if you clean the filter monthly.  My feb bill dropped from 1970 in 2019 to 1270 in 2020 with the new carrier inverter.  Hated to part with the reliable fujitsu..but uses half the energy and does a better job.  I dont even turn it off when i leave for the day like i always did.

[Metropolitian]

Having Electrolux here in my workspace.

In 'cool/dry' mode it get reasonably cold (26-28 degrees) and uses only 2.4-3 amp. 13K btu, Inverter.

Was placed in the room where LG non-inverter was running fine until one day the outdoor unit went with a big bang spilling oil over the wall from the compressor.

 

Other aircon is SajoDenki, uses around 4 amp and is non inverter. Came with the house when we moved in and still going well.

Fixed the remote control which has had a big black spot from corroded LCD screen mirror, and now fine again.

[hackjam]

Is there a Daikin shop in Pattaya?

[hackjam]

Will be fitting a small A/C unit in small bedroom, would this cable be good enough?

[moontang]

_{yes, but why not run a 1x1.5,2x2.5 and ground the thing?}

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, hackjam said:

Will be fitting a small A/C unit in small bedroom, would this cable be good enough?

As was said yes but only if you have a separate earth rod for the shower or an earth cable back to your house earth (if you have one)

[lom]

On 3/18/2020 at 2:00 PM, moontang said:

yes, but why not run a 1x1.5,2x2.5 and ground the thing?

The ground wire should for obvious reason be of at least the same size as the live wire..

[sometimewoodworker]

36 minutes ago, lom said:

The ground wire should for obvious reason be of at least the same size as the live wire..

You are clearly not an electrician nor do you understand electrical wiring.

 

You are wrong about the sizing of earth wiring. 1mm Earth and 2.5mm line and neutral is standard. 

 

The protective conductor is almost always smaller than line an neutral, the only time I would use the same size is if I have the cable around.

Edited March 29, 2020 by sometimewoodworker

[lom]

4 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

You are clearly not an electrician nor do you understand electrical wiring.

 

You are wrong about the sizing of earth wiring. 1mm Earth and 2.5mm line and neutral is standard. 

Stick to woodworking.

Why would you want the protective wire to be able to carry less current than the live wire so in case of a short to the chassis of an appliance the protective wire risk burning off before the live wire?

Electrical safety standard regulations states that the safety ground wire should not be smaller than the live wire.

[sometimewoodworker]

47 minutes ago, lom said:

Stick to woodworking.

Why would you want the protective wire to be able to carry less current than the live wire so in case of a short to the chassis of an appliance the protective wire risk burning off before the live wire?

Electrical safety standard regulations states that the safety ground wire should not be smaller than the live wire.

Please quote the regulations, though of course you can’t because they say nothing of the kind for fixed wiring. Earth size for 1.5mm lightening circuits is 1mm and for 2.5mm power is 1.5mm
 

The protective wire is not designed to carry significant current for a protracted period, just long enough for the MCB / RCCB / Fuse to blow and do their job, so the permitted current ratings are significantly higher than for normal line and neutral conductors. FWIW if you ever actually Manage to melt a wire you have a seriously messed up and badly protected system.
 

This has nothing to do with cables connecting appliances to the fixed house wiring. It is all about a fixed supply.

 

As an electrician you might make a passable refuse collection operative.

Edited March 29, 2020 by sometimewoodworker

[lom]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Please quote the regulations, though of course you can’t because they say nothing of the kind for fixed wiring.

Of course I can,

IEC 60364-5-54 where fig. 59 shows required c.s.a (cross section area) of the PE wire. -for phase conductor c.s.a < 16mm² , PE conductor c.s.a = phase conductor c.s.a

-for phase conductor c.s.a between 16mm² - 35mm², PE conductor c.s.a = 16mm2

 

Furthermore, there does not to my knowledge exist a multi conductor cable where the green-yellow protective ground wire is smaller than the phase or neutral wires.

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The protective wire is not designed to carry significant current for a protracted period, just long enough for the MCB / RCCB / Fuse to blow and do their job, so the permitted current ratings are significantly higher than for normal line and neutral conductors.

For protection against electrical shock you are not allowed to assume that there is a MCB or a correctly sized fuse that will trip.

You must assume that the protective earth wire is the only protection against electrical shock hence can withstand the same current as the phase conductor.

[Crossy]

11 hours ago, lom said:

The ground wire should for obvious reason be of at least the same size as the live wire..

 

You may wish to brush up a little on your theory https://mycableengineering.com/knowledge-base/the-adiabatic-equation

 

[lom]

The adiabatic equation you linked to is the same for a phase wire as for a protected earth wire so I don't know what you are trying to say.

Where in electrical standard safety regulations does it state that you are allowed to use a smaller protected earth wire than the phase wire (if wire size is below 16mm²)?

 

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

9 hours ago, lom said:

Furthermore, there does not to my knowledge exist a multi conductor cable where the green-yellow protective ground wire is smaller than the phase or neutral wires.

You are digging your hole deeper (not a wise move unless it is for your alternative suggested profession)

 

10 hours ago, lom said:

. 

Your knowledge of cable availability  is a limited as you knowledge of acceptable (as in within regulations) wiring practice seems to be. 

Here is a cable example to widen you knowledge line and neutral are 2.5mm

 

the U.K. standard is that the Earth should be at least 50% of the line and neutral (please note you do not add line to neutral and divide by two) so that requires 1.25mm minimum.

 

10 hours ago, lom said:

For protection against electrical shock you are not allowed to assume that there is a MCB or a correctly sized fuse that will trip.

You must assume that the protective earth wire is the only protection against electrical shock hence can withstand the same current as the phase conductor.

Please post a copy of, or link to, that information.

 

it is of course obvious (or it should be) that a conductor is perfectly capable of carrying a much higher current for a short period than the normal continuous rating.

 

Do please stop giving wrong information.

[Crossy]

5 hours ago, lom said:

The adiabatic equation you linked to is the same for a phase wire as for a protected earth wire so I don't know what you are trying to say.

Where in electrical standard safety regulations does it state that you are allowed to use a smaller protected earth wire than the phase wire (if wire size is below 16mm²)?

 

Before we go on, which country's regulations are we going to use?

 

BS7671, AS/NZ3000, NEC something else?

 

EDIT An whilst we are at it which grounding/earthing scheme TT, TNS, TNC (very rare), TNC-S.

[Crossy]

As a talking point here we have detail from Aus.

 

 

I note that the ground size for 2.5 is actually more stringent than the UK.

 

[ben2talk]

I have a Daikin downstairs, 18k BTU inverter model, works well... but the Mitsu in the bedroom is the best design - extremely simple to clean.

 

However, you get to pay extra for the Mitsu - I got mine when the refrigerant was being phased out, so I paid about 66% of the ticket price of a new model. Otherwise I'd go with Daikin.

 

I'm sure that Hitachi and Panasonic are great too, but not sure about maintenance/cleaning.

 

Something else to note about inverters - they usually have some kind of 'saver' mode which adds 2 celcius to the setting when you're not around (Daikin has a magic eye function), the Mitus has a 'saver' and also a 'memory' setting, so I set it at 29 when I go out - it keeps the room from cooking too much and makes it easier to cool when you get home.

 

The total consumption from running the bedroom air 24 hours now is cheaper than I used to pay when I turned off my 'simple' a/c unit in a condo in the past every time I went out. The other benefit is that the living room downstairs rarely goes up past 29 as the heat doesn't come down through the house as much.

Edited March 30, 2020 by ben2talk

[ben2talk]

On 6/6/2018 at 8:04 PM, Orton Rd said:

we have Mitsubishi heavy duty in the bedroom, I always have found it VERY noisy even though we have it service by mitsu guys. I'd go for Daikin

Mitsubishi Heavy Duty is rubbish - we're talking about a different company right? Mitsubishi Mr Slim inverter is a totally different animal

 

[Metropolitian]

11 hours ago, Crossy said:

As a talking point

(Netherland)

As I have learned is that with earthing you has to look on two points with the wire diameters.

1. The wire diameter from the live/neutral.

2. Resistance.

 

Diameters:

In nominal installations from the customer unit to the outlet the earth wire is mostly the same diameter as the outlet.

In this case all the wires are 2.5mm

 

Lightning and switches are mostly 1.5mm, and earth is the same.

 

With bigger current (which are mostly not used with consumer outlets but direct connection or Cee form plugs) the size of the neutral and live is bigger, but the earth wire not.

In this case Live and neutral can be 4mm2 and earth 2.5mm

The earth wire diameter will be bigger when we are talking about 10mm2 and up live/neutral.

 

 

The resistance: If the link from the unit to another unit (can be a secondairy CU or the earth pen or bonding to gas/water (revisited, now plastic pipes) the wire diameter should be big enough that the resistance is not higher than 25 Ohm. (30max)

 

 

For me, here in Thailand I keep the same 'standard' and not trusting the nail in the wall method

 

[Seeall]

On 6/6/2018 at 4:37 PM, Lacessit said:

Personally, I recommend Mitsubishi. In my experience a very reliable brand. Had one in a house that was still going strong after 20 years.

I had longer, however, they dont make em lasting these days, more tech and cheap as possible....

[Seeall]

On 6/6/2018 at 5:28 PM, KittenKong said:

Whichever brand you buy, get an inverter model.

Headlines say that, but the older installers and two of my guys say the non inverter better : less parts, easy maintain, les wires for rats to chew.. and not 30% savings as the glossy mags say....