You're havin' a laugh! Police won't be able to take your licence next year!

[webfact]

You're havin' a laugh! Police won't be able to take your licence next year!

 

Picture: Daily News

 

The RTP are proposing that traffic police will not be able to seize motorists' licenses for the majority of traffic offences from next year.

 

The move is designed to bring more convenience to the public as the authorities plan marked improvements to databases and prepare for the implementation of the much heralded points system for traffic offences.

 

Daily News said that the idea appeared to be a joke in their headline. This was not fully explained in their report but perhaps is a reaction that many Thai people will have to a long standing system that when traffic offences are committed it usually results in your license being taken away.

 

You only get it back when you go to the station to pay the fine. Thus, breaking the law and being allowed to keep your license will be something to get used to.

 

From 2019 traffic police will only be able to confiscate licences in serious cases involving loss of life or injury.

 

For the great majority of offences motorists will hang onto their license and then pay their fine and get their points.

 

Most of this will be handled electronically in the new proposed systems.

 

Pol Maj Gen Ekkarak Limsangkat who heads the committee proposing changes to the traffic laws said that matters relating to licenses are covered under Article 140.

 

The proposals have passed the first stage and will now be discussed further said the Maj Gen following a consultative meeting held with hundreds of members of the public last week.

 

Source: Daily News

 

-- © Copyright Thai Visa News 2018-06-13

[ezzra]

Big percentage of the fines are not being paid as it is now, with the new rule, i would say that most of the fines will no be paid, with no deterrent to compel one to pay their fines as in other countries where you get a letter from a lawyer and a debt collection agency accumulating penalties for late payments, Thai people just don't care...

[darksidedog]

Seriously? I can see Thais laughing all over their face saying "Yes Officer, Of course I will go to the police station and pay the fine."

They really need to sit down and try to think this through before it becomes even more laughable.

[smedly]

and for those that don't have a licence lol

[4MyEgo]

They should take from the New South Wales Australia system.

 

You pay the fine within 21 days or elect to go to court, no guarantee you will see the judge on the 1st day so a days wages or two are lost, so you weigh up the cost and the fine and usually pay it and move on.

 

If you don't do either, you won't be able to renew your license or register any vehicle in your name in the future until the fine and any outstanding costs are paid, simple and we know what happens in New South Wales if you drive without a license or drive an unregistered vehicle, as we have tough laws that are followed through, i.e. wanna enjoy some jail time, drive unlicensed or unregistered and see what happens, and I respect that system.

 

 

[peperobi]

No comment! You must improve and not go backward!

[glennb6]

4 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

They should take from the New South Wales Australia system.

 

You pay the fine within 21 days or elect to go to court, no guarantee you will see the judge on the 1st day so a days wages or two are lost, so you weigh up the cost and the fine and usually pay it and move on.

 

If you don't do either, you won't be able to renew your license or register any vehicle in your name in the future until the fine and any outstanding costs are paid, simple and we know what happens in New South Wales if you drive without a license or drive an unregistered vehicle, as we have tough laws that are followed through, i.e. wanna enjoy some jail time, drive unlicensed or unregistered and see what happens, and I respect that system.

 

 

guilty, convicted, and fined before proven guilty..... yup, great system y'all have there.

[Lupatria]

I assume I found a photo of the genius who announced this "idea"

 

 

[CGW]

Great! suits me just "fine" I never moved here because of Thailand's strict adherence to International laws & norms, or their abilities to uphold law and order, there not disappointing me! 

[PunkRockerGuy]

4 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

They should take from the New South Wales Australia system.

 

You pay the fine within 21 days or elect to go to court, no guarantee you will see the judge on the 1st day so a days wages or two are lost, so you weigh up the cost and the fine and usually pay it and move on.

 

If you don't do either, you won't be able to renew your license or register any vehicle in your name in the future until the fine and any outstanding costs are paid, simple and we know what happens in New South Wales if you drive without a license or drive an unregistered vehicle, as we have tough laws that are followed through, i.e. wanna enjoy some jail time, drive unlicensed or unregistered and see what happens, and I respect that system.

 

 

That is quite a severe system.  In most US states, when we are given the ticket (especially true when done by State Police), the officer indicates the law broken/infraction, the penalty or fee is listed there, and there is already a court date assigned to the ticket.  In the US, if the police officer does not show up to court (you can hazard a guess as to on what police shift you received the ticket and usual court times are 9am-10am), the judge throws out the infraction and fine. You can also argue the accuracy of radar/laser guns, as they are known to have an inherent 10% error, therefore you can always safely go 5-9% over the speed limit without a problem, and you get especially lucky if the radar has not been calibrated within the recent 30-60 days.  I have found in Thailand, not only is their alcohol breathalyzers either inaccurate or corruptly calibrated from the start, but also their highway radar cameras.  I have checked with both 2 different GPS speed devices and speedometers on all 4 of our vehicles, and I am often reading 112-115 kph on my devices, but the indicator of Sri Rat Expressway shows me over 120 kph.  Pure nonsense.  I took the police to court over a 500 baht ticket we received last year and had our Thai lawyers make the police dig out their highway calibration records.  Over 1-year without checking its accuracy ... 

[jvs]

Isnt there a system in place for this already?You will not be able to

pay your tax sticker until your fine is payed.

Something better needs to be invented but so far this seems to work ok.

 

[HHTel]

This has been tried twice before and failed.  The first one was an accumulation of points to 100 and the second one loosely similar to this one with loss of points from 10.  Why will it work this time?

[4MyEgo]

39 minutes ago, glennb6 said:

guilty, convicted, and fined before proven guilty..... yup, great system y'all have there.

I'm glad you removed the last word in your sentence, no need to get person when someone expresses an opinion here on TVF.

 

If you actually thought about it and knew anything about Australia, which I doubt you do, the deaths per 100,000 are low, i.e. Australia in 2017 according to various sources was ranked number 18/27 outside of Africa, Asia and the middle east which all had bad rankings, naturally Thailand was at the top of the lists, and we wonder why, so I guess you support their system, if you can call it one.

 

Those that, as you say, are within the system I was referring too, that says your, "guilty, convicted and fined before proven guilty"  (your words), is actually not what your saying, like I said, you have no idea what your on about, you have 21 days to object in a court of law, which I stated, now where in English terms does that say your "guilty, convicted and fined before proven guilty", your words, those that are breaking the law, are the ones fined, the onus is on them to prove otherwise, really simple, i.e. guilty until proven innocent.

 

The system works and if you've got a fairer system that is not going to back up the courts and kill a hell of a lot of people, well we are all waiting here on TVF.

 

Too easy for armchair warriors to have a go, but with nothing to back up there point, if you can call it one.

 

Fair suk of the sav, oy !

[Oldgumshoe]

The whole road policing methods in Thailand are to say the least an abysmal failure, thus the staggering road fatality stats. It has been mentioned about the system in New South Wales in Aus. and should be noted that each state there has similar systems which are rigidly enforced by road policing officers. Sometimes mistakes are made but rarely. The end resul is a country of 25 million has less than 1500 road fataliies per year. Something must be working which shows it is possible if the desire of Government is there.

 

[4MyEgo]

33 minutes ago, PunkRockerGuy said:

That is quite a severe system.  In most US states, when we are given the ticket (especially true when done by State Police), the officer indicates the law broken/infraction, the penalty or fee is listed there, and there is already a court date assigned to the ticket.  In the US, if the police officer does not show up to court (you can hazard a guess as to on what police shift you received the ticket and usual court times are 9am-10am), the judge throws out the infraction and fine. You can also argue the accuracy of radar/laser guns, as they are known to have an inherent 10% error, therefore you can always safely go 5-9% over the speed limit without a problem, and you get especially lucky if the radar has not been calibrated within the recent 30-60 days.  I have found in Thailand, not only is their alcohol breathalyzers either inaccurate or corruptly calibrated from the start, but also their highway radar cameras.  I have checked with both 2 different GPS speed devices and speedometers on all 4 of our vehicles, and I am often reading 112-115 kph on my devices, but the indicator of Sri Rat Expressway shows me over 120 kph.  Pure nonsense.  I took the police to court over a 500 baht ticket we received last year and had our Thai lawyers make the police dig out their highway calibration records.  Over 1-year without checking its accuracy ... 

Same same, without the court date, you just have to notify them within 21 days you are going to challenge it, but as I mentioned the fines are so high, its worth taking the time off work, i.e. if the fine is $350 and your earning $1,000 a day, well the maths says work, doesn't it.

[PunkRockerGuy]

39 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Same same, without the court date, you just have to notify them within 21 days you are going to challenge it, but as I mentioned the fines are so high, its worth taking the time off work, i.e. if the fine is $350 and your earning $1,000 a day, well the maths says work, doesn't it.

Yes, that is the problem in Thailand.  Most of the people speeding have a massive income if you go by the imported cars they drive.  In the US, a typical ticket will run you $350-$1,000 and double your car insurance premium possibly for the next year.  Thus, since the majority of ticket-makers in the US are not earning that per day, the fine is fairly steep, for sure your case is over and done within the first 1-2 hours you are downtown court, it makes sense for most Americans to challenge an expensive ticket.

 

It's a joke to me when they fine me 100 baht, 500 baht, etc.  While I can easily look at that as throwaway money, I HATE Thai traffic police corruption, and I work for the Thai government, so I decided to challenge the last 2 tickets in court, even though it cost me perhaps 15,000 baht to appear in court that morning here.  

[Bangkok Barry]

7 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

They should take from the New South Wales Australia system.

 

You pay the fine within 21 days or elect to go to court, no guarantee you will see the judge on the 1st day so a days wages or two are lost, so you weigh up the cost and the fine and usually pay it and move on.

 

If you don't do either, you won't be able to renew your license or register any vehicle in your name in the future until the fine and any outstanding costs are paid, simple and we know what happens in New South Wales if you drive without a license or drive an unregistered vehicle, as we have tough laws that are followed through, i.e. wanna enjoy some jail time, drive unlicensed or unregistered and see what happens, and I respect that system.

 

 

 

In Thailand they would just feel sorry for you and let you drive because you need a car to get to the somtam shop/mia noi/buy whisky etc

[Ramdas]

If that would be the case, I’m not entirely sure it would apply on everyone, perhaps they may not take the driving license from you just the “ help me “ money as I’ve often been asked by the local traffic police when they’ve noticed that I wasn’t Thai ?

As far as I’m concerned, the police should/must start to stop Thais without an helmet but especially the ones carrying the entire family on board of a motorcycle  without looking where they’re going ! I reckon its

better to start small since the local population don’t respect/ adhere/ acknowledge any traffic laws for that matter  .. Oh what about the ones driving/riding the wrong way of the road coming at you ?! 

Nevertheless, the western countries roads and traffic regulations which have been mentioned above have the lowest speed limit.

While in your home country you’re constantly harassed by the hidden police cameras and the police themselves trying to rip you off in every possible way they can.

Hence what’s the point of having a fast car if you can’t even drive beyond 120kms or 55-60 miles an hour ?! Apart from showing off their wealth I really don’t see the point of having a car that goes beyond these limits. 

My point is.. Extremes are always harmful and detrimental..

Mind yourself while you’re in the land of the dazed and confused..

[Ramdas]

If that would be the case, I’m not entirely sure it would apply on everyone, perhaps they may not take the driving license from you just the “ help me “ money as I’ve often been asked by the local traffic police when they’ve noticed that I wasn’t Thai ?

As far as I’m concerned, the police should/must start to stop Thais without an helmet but especially the ones carrying the entire family on board of a motorcycle  without looking where they’re going ! I reckon its

better to start small since the local population don’t respect/ adhere/ acknowledge any traffic laws for that matter  .. Oh what about the ones driving/riding the wrong way of the road coming at you ?! 

Nevertheless, the western countries roads and traffic regulations which have been mentioned above have the lowest speed limit.

While in your home country you’re constantly harassed by the hidden police cameras and the police themselves trying to rip you off in every possible way they can.

Hence what’s the point of having a fast car if you can’t even drive beyond 120kms or 55-60 miles an hour ?! Apart from showing off their wealth I really don’t see the point of having a car that goes beyond these limits. 

My point is.. Extremes are always harmful and detrimental..

Mind yourself while you’re in the land of the dazed and confused..

[rosst]

4 hours ago, glennb6 said:

guilty, convicted, and fined before proven guilty..... yup, great system y'all have there.

I read what you say and the reason it works is because if you are not guilty then you take it to court, for the rest, we suck it up and save the expenses of the legal system, that way we can afford a universal health care system. 

Y'all 

[Russell17au]

Another part of the problem here is that people change addresses but do not notify the LTD and have it changed on their licenses and registrations.

Currently I am renting and I have lived here for the last 12 months and there is mail from the police for unpaid fines for the previous tenant

 

[PunkRockerGuy]

3 hours ago, jvs said:

Isnt there a system in place for this already?You will not be able to

pay your tax sticker until your fine is payed.

Something better needs to be invented but so far this seems to work ok.

 

They are supposed to deny your next year's registration, however, I have known Thai friends who got right around it without paying off their fines. 

[Shiver]

Although we don't know the details, from what the article told us there are some obvious exceptions that would be a point of failure.  Having seen 'ideas' semi-implemented here and then buried previously, I think it's highly likely that this will go the same way.  The current system isn't perfect either, but at least it's low tech enough.  To implement and track all offenders (including those with no licence, and registration plates of the vehicles involved - whoever the driver), it would have to take a technology leap two bounds forward.

 

I'll guess 20% chance of working better.

[impulse]

1 hour ago, rosst said:

I read what you say and the reason it works is because if you are not guilty then you take it to court, for the rest, we suck it up and save the expenses of the legal system, that way we can afford a universal health care system. 

Y'all 

 

Didn't you say that taking it to court cost at least a days' wages and probably several days?  That's a pretty significant penalty for someone found not guilty.

 

 

[SABloke]

9 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

They should take from the New South Wales Australia system.

 

You pay the fine within 21 days or elect to go to court, no guarantee you will see the judge on the 1st day so a days wages or two are lost, so you weigh up the cost and the fine and usually pay it and move on.

 

If you don't do either, you won't be able to renew your license or register any vehicle in your name in the future until the fine and any outstanding costs are paid, simple and we know what happens in New South Wales if you drive without a license or drive an unregistered vehicle, as we have tough laws that are followed through, i.e. wanna enjoy some jail time, drive unlicensed or unregistered and see what happens, and I respect that system.

 

 

Unless of course you don't make your living on "daily wages" then not much risk going to court.

[Russell17au]

15 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Didn't you say that taking it to court cost at least a days' wages and probably several days?  That's a pretty significant penalty for someone found not guilty.

 

 

There are not many that are not guilty these days because with the technology that is used and the regular calibrations of the camera and radar, if you get a ticket either on the spot from the police or you get one through the mail it is a pretty sure bet that you have committed the offense but you have 21 days to decide if you are going to accept the fine or take it to court. To take it to court is a big risk unless you have evidence that can prove you did not commit the offense then it is best to just pay the fine because if the offense is proven in the court then you face the risk of having the penalty increased plus you would have to pay the court costs. Many people long ago tried the court but they quickly found out that you need pretty good evidence to beat the penalty. Normally the police have the photos and the calibration certificates so it is pretty hard to beat them. If you win in the court then you can claim your costs.

[PunkRockerGuy]

2 hours ago, Ramdas said:

If that would be the case, I’m not entirely sure it would apply on everyone, perhaps they may not take the driving license from you just the “ help me “ money as I’ve often been asked by the local traffic police when they’ve noticed that I wasn’t Thai ?

As far as I’m concerned, the police should/must start to stop Thais without an helmet but especially the ones carrying the entire family on board of a motorcycle  without looking where they’re going ! I reckon its

better to start small since the local population don’t respect/ adhere/ acknowledge any traffic laws for that matter  .. Oh what about the ones driving/riding the wrong way of the road coming at you ?! 

Nevertheless, the western countries roads and traffic regulations which have been mentioned above have the lowest speed limit.

While in your home country you’re constantly harassed by the hidden police cameras and the police themselves trying to rip you off in every possible way they can.

Hence what’s the point of having a fast car if you can’t even drive beyond 120kms or 55-60 miles an hour ?! Apart from showing off their wealth I really don’t see the point of having a car that goes beyond these limits. 

My point is.. Extremes are always harmful and detrimental..

Mind yourself while you’re in the land of the dazed and confused..

I use a radar/laser detector I brought with me in luggage a couple of years ago to Thailand.  If I had been caught, they would have confiscated it, as they are illegal in Thailand.  I know 1 km ahead on most highways here where the speed cameras are ... I have never got a ticket since bringing that back a few years ago.  

 

In the US, my cars will run up to 300+ kph and I have done over 300 kph on the track, but no need to exceed 220+ kph on any US highway except way out in the countryish States, where we have NO SPEED limits, so the moots your point.  Besides, for me, the point to a fast car is NOT the top end, but the time to go 0-60 mph (0-120 kph).  

[Artisi]

10 hours ago, smedly said:

and for those that don't have a licence lol

Nothing changes, pay at the point of the problem and the problem vanishes.... 

 

[Artisi]

1 minute ago, PunkRockerGuy said:

I use a radar/laser detector I brought with me in luggage a couple of years ago to Thailand.  If I had been caught, they would have confiscated it, as they are illegal in Thailand.  I know 1 km ahead on most highways here where the speed cameras are ... I have never got a ticket since bringing that back a few years ago.  

 

In the US, my cars will run up to 300+ kph and I have done over 300 kph on the track, but no need to exceed 220+ kph on any US highway except way out in the countryish States, where we have NO SPEED limits, so the moots your point.  Besides, for me, the point to a fast car is NOT the top end, but the time to go 0-60 mph (0-120 kph).  

Wow  - just a fantastic wow. 

[PunkRockerGuy]

2 hours ago, Ramdas said:

If that would be the case, I’m not entirely sure it would apply on everyone, perhaps they may not take the driving license from you just the “ help me “ money as I’ve often been asked by the local traffic police when they’ve noticed that I wasn’t Thai ?

As far as I’m concerned, the police should/must start to stop Thais without an helmet but especially the ones carrying the entire family on board of a motorcycle  without looking where they’re going ! I reckon its

better to start small since the local population don’t respect/ adhere/ acknowledge any traffic laws for that matter  .. Oh what about the ones driving/riding the wrong way of the road coming at you ?! 

Nevertheless, the western countries roads and traffic regulations which have been mentioned above have the lowest speed limit.

While in your home country you’re constantly harassed by the hidden police cameras and the police themselves trying to rip you off in every possible way they can.

Hence what’s the point of having a fast car if you can’t even drive beyond 120kms or 55-60 miles an hour ?! Apart from showing off their wealth I really don’t see the point of having a car that goes beyond these limits. 

My point is.. Extremes are always harmful and detrimental..

Mind yourself while you’re in the land of the dazed and confused..

And, of course, I use radar/laser detectors in any car I drive while back in the US.