Jump to content
BANGKOK

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

joninisaan

Punishment for students

Recommended Posts

20 hours ago, stubuzz said:

If you haven't written your own classroom management plan-aka (discipline management plan) and discussed it with the students, ask the school for theirs. If they don't know what it is, or don't have one then you know things will never change.

I have a classroom management plan I drew up myself but was just looking at alternatives for when certain students break rules repeatedly and my punishments are of little concern to the student and don't want to use corporal punishment.

I know things will never change here in Thailand as to why I was looking for alternative punishments other foreign teachers use.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, scorecard said:

I do that at the start of every course and very quickly I get the looks on faces 'the monster has arrived'. I don't care I still state the rules.

 

A different slant. Over the years I'd had a few problem students eventually come to me and say, I used to get angry with you for telling me to be quiet and listen and (in some cases) make me sit away from my friends or sit at the front. Now I ned to thank you because after you really push I'm now getting better grades.

 

My Dad was a principal (director) at several schools in Hawaii about 60 years ago when they would use the big wooden paddle. After my Dad retired, there was an incident with a BIG Samoan guy who came up to my Dad and asked my Dad if he was a principal at ............. high school which my Dad said "yes" and asked who are you and braced himself as the BIG Samoan guy looked like he wanted to rip my dads head off. After a few seconds, a big smile grew on the Samoan guys face and he offered his hand to my Dad saying "I'd like to thank you for punishing me with the paddle back in ............high school as those punishments set me straight". I was about 7 years old at that time I can clearly remember every second of that incident and thinking to myself at first that my Dads going to get murdered right in front of me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, ozmeldo said:

Change schools - problem solved.

 

I will be moving to the city where my wife is a teacher at the end of this term but I have accepted the fact that the problem on how to punish students or how difficult all teachers have it disciplining students here in Thailand no matter what school I change to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, otherstuff1957 said:

When I first started teaching in Thailand, almost 15 years ago, corporal punishment was common and almost all of the Thai teachers carried a bamboo "pointer" to class.  Things have changed and I have not seen an example of corporal punishment in over 10 years.

 

IMHO using physical punishment is not effective.  It teaches the kids that they must obey when there is a stick pointed at them.  They, of course, immediately understand that the opposite is also true....  no stick means that they don't have to obey!  Hitting kids to make them behave is not only counter-productive, it also teaches them that good behavior is something that is imposed upon them from outside, rather than something that they do of their own accord.

 

Unfortunately, Thai teachers have, by and large, replaced corporal punishment to nothing at all!  Kids who misbehave usually get nothing more than a long lecture that they can just tune out until it is over.

 

Disciplining students, especially students who are old enough to realize that they live in "the land of no consequences" (as I sometimes consider Thailand to be) is a difficult and lengthy process.  Given large class sizes and the fact that many Thai teachers will unconsciously or purposely undermine your efforts, it is an almost impossible task.

 

I don't have any answers for those of you in the Government School trenches,  I gave up and moved to a private school where the students understand and speak English and the class sizes are usually less than 20 students.  Even there, discipline can be a challenge, but being consistent and firm and having a good relationship with the Thai teachers does help a lot.

The points you made are dead on correct! I didn't realized too that private schools are different in terms of classroom structure, etc. I think Ill be leaning towards changing to a private school if possible to my next school to teach at. Thanks for your response to my OP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, joninisaan said:

The points you made are dead on correct! I didn't realized too that private schools are different in terms of classroom structure, etc. I think Ill be leaning towards changing to a private school if possible to my next school to teach at. Thanks for your response to my OP.

 

Good points, another item to consider, there's a range of private schools, some are genuine and good quality, some are money machines etc.

 

There's also a few private schools which are set up to deliberately attract very rich hi-so families, beautiful buildings, class rooms , libraries, all sorts of high tech equipment etc. 

 

I have a Thai relative, moved home to Chiang Mai, fully qualified teacher in both Thailand and Singapore, and experienced in both countries. Her credentials quickly got her a job at a specific private school which deliberately caters for hi-so kids, the school insists that teachers only speak English to inspress the parents, class size policy max 15 kids at all levels, but in reality only 5 or 6 kids in each class.

 

She quickly discovered that the majority of the kids (age range 5 to 18 years old), very small classes, are uncontrollable, try to punish the, insist they stop talking etc., is totally ignored often with a mouth full of abuse from the kids.

 

Attempts at discussion with and asking for action by the parents is 'tread very carefully'. My relative encountered abrupt 'orders' from parents, also parents walking in and telling the teacher to change the subject. Asking for guidance and support from the school owner also 'tread carefully'. 

 

My relative lasted about 3 weeks and finally realized  'it's not going to change' and she resigned.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I taught for quite a few years and then had an administrative role for many more years, including dealing with unruly students.    We had some classes that were significantly worse than others and I usually got assigned them.    Here's how I used to handle discipline issues:

 

First try to make the punishment fit the crime, so to speak.   I was reasonably lenient on students who were not paying attention, doing their work etc, but who did not interfere with other students' learning.   You cannot make students learn, but you can provide an environment that is conducive to those that want to.

 

Second, for students who are mildly disruptive -- talking to the kid next to them etc., I would move them to the front or at least away from their partner in crime.   All they got to bring in the temporary move was their book, notebook -- nothing else to distract them.  

 

For those who were massively distracting to the other class the options I used was to have them stand at the back of the classroom with their book.   If they were too disruptive, then they stood in the doorway, where they could see the board and hear the lesson, but not interact with their peers.    When you have a group of boys who are acting up (and they do like to join in), don't put them all at the back together -- maybe one in each corner of the room.   Otherwise, it's like recess for them.

 

Once in a while there was a student who had to be completely removed -- usually there was an external source to their behavior, such as Attention Deficit Disorder or some other physical/psychological problem.   Sometimes, it's just teenage angst gone awry -- a failed relationship, an ongoing spat with another student, etc.. 

 

I also didn't approach it as discipline/punishment per se, but simply trying to structurally handle situations which were problematic.   In short, don't get angry, just let them know that they have to pay attention and this is how it will happen.  

 

Once it appears that they have settled down and focused, I have them sit down (if it is a group of misbehaving students, I do it one at a time).  

 

Generally, if there is a lot of misbehavior, then I take a closer look at what I AM DOING.  Sometimes, I am going way over their heads or way under.    Once in a while, it is something new, not particularly interesting and I let them know that I need them to pay close attention and bear with me on the subject.  

 

Keep your focus on the lesson and deal with disruptions as quickly and easily as possible.   With discipline, remember you may have to lose a few battles, but you want to win the war.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Scott said:

I taught for quite a few years and then had an administrative role for many more years, including dealing with unruly students.    We had some classes that were significantly worse than others and I usually got assigned them.    Here's how I used to handle discipline issues:

 

First try to make the punishment fit the crime, so to speak.   I was reasonably lenient on students who were not paying attention, doing their work etc, but who did not interfere with other students' learning.   You cannot make students learn, but you can provide an environment that is conducive to those that want to.

 

Second, for students who are mildly disruptive -- talking to the kid next to them etc., I would move them to the front or at least away from their partner in crime.   All they got to bring in the temporary move was their book, notebook -- nothing else to distract them.  

 

For those who were massively distracting to the other class the options I used was to have them stand at the back of the classroom with their book.   If they were too disruptive, then they stood in the doorway, where they could see the board and hear the lesson, but not interact with their peers.    When you have a group of boys who are acting up (and they do like to join in), don't put them all at the back together -- maybe one in each corner of the room.   Otherwise, it's like recess for them.

 

Once in a while there was a student who had to be completely removed -- usually there was an external source to their behavior, such as Attention Deficit Disorder or some other physical/psychological problem.   Sometimes, it's just teenage angst gone awry -- a failed relationship, an ongoing spat with another student, etc.. 

 

I also didn't approach it as discipline/punishment per se, but simply trying to structurally handle situations which were problematic.   In short, don't get angry, just let them know that they have to pay attention and this is how it will happen.  

 

Once it appears that they have settled down and focused, I have them sit down (if it is a group of misbehaving students, I do it one at a time).  

 

Generally, if there is a lot of misbehavior, then I take a closer look at what I AM DOING.  Sometimes, I am going way over their heads or way under.    Once in a while, it is something new, not particularly interesting and I let them know that I need them to pay close attention and bear with me on the subject.  

 

Keep your focus on the lesson and deal with disruptions as quickly and easily as possible.   With discipline, remember you may have to lose a few battles, but you want to win the war.  

..and when they are university students, generally the procedures are in place, only to be unenforced and forgotten.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/21/2018 at 1:08 PM, joninisaan said:

I will be moving to the city where my wife is a teacher at the end of this term but I have accepted the fact that the problem on how to punish students or how difficult all teachers have it disciplining students here in Thailand no matter what school I change to.

I have worked at four schools and have had approximately 1500 students. The only kids that were a serious issue we're the M2/11, M2/13 throwaway classes I was given despite coming in as an EP teacher in that school. If I did not have four books and five classes, I could have done something with them. The book sucked which there was no excuse for that school. I feel badly I did not have the time and energy to develop lessons for their level, I'd come in that year having taught only one term before. I accept some blame here, the Thai teachers thought little of them and they were an unruly lot no doubt on quota from the local area.

 

The other 1420 students with minor exception have been great - spectacular on balance.

 

Assuming you have classroom management skills and the respect of your students, you need to find the better schools and programs and accept nothing less.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not about public vs private schools. The best schools, the most in demand outside IB, International (real ones) are 2-3 bilinguals ate PUBLIC schools + then a tiny few Christian, a few more Catholic schools then there are public's or what we might term public/private's eg Pathumwan Demonstration. These are the elite secondary schools. 

 

Who wants to go to a private university in Thailand? No decent student.

 

The top ten secondary schools are essentially all or nearly all public.

 

When kids take a call in class, I point them outside. Video games, one warning, I'll take their phone for 24 hours. Loud talking, I try to mitigate. Sleeping, sometimes I take them, sometimes not. Depends, I know many are up late studying and up early to get to school.

 

Ill pull them into the activity and disallow other work to be done in class.

 

Connecting personally with students goes a long way. If they respect you, that might not get you to the goal line, but it will take you far.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/21/2018 at 1:08 PM, joninisaan said:

I will be moving to the city

If the city means Bangkok,  you're on track. If you are just going to a larger provincial city or even capital, it will be much the same. Good schools attract good Thai teachers as well.

 

The cream of the kids are sent to Bangkok to live with relatives and attend schools there.

 

The only people that actually want to be in the provs are the farang. Nothing good happens there, it produces nothing aside from agriculture.

 

Outside Khon Kaen and Chaing Mai Universities and perhaps half dozen at the most secondaries, there's no learning going on upcountry. None of those kids are entering top 5 universities in masse and mostly on quota.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/20/2018 at 8:10 AM, scorecard said:

It is specifically illegal in Thailand for teachers, any teachers to hit children with a hand , a stick, a cane, or whatever.

 

But do Thai teachers still use sticks etc., to hit kids? Yes.

I've seen Thai teachers doing worse things. OP, so more upset you'll get, so more troubles you'll have.

 

  Show them that you're the boss in the classroom and keep your lessons interesting. If they talk/listen to music, etc.. while you are in class, just stop and look at them. There's always a sort of a "leading student" in each class who'll help you to calm them down.

 

  A good trick is to tell them that you'll take them to the principles office if they continue to behave badly. I never did it, but it helped many times. At least for some minutes...

 

   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

If the city means Bangkok,  you're on track. If you are just going to a larger provincial city or even capital, it will be much the same. Good schools attract good Thai teachers as well.

 

The cream of the kids are sent to Bangkok to live with relatives and attend schools there.

 

The only people that actually want to be in the provs are the farang. Nothing good happens there, it produces nothing aside from agriculture.

 

Outside Khon Kaen and Chaing Mai Universities and perhaps half dozen at the most secondaries, there's no learning going on upcountry. None of those kids are entering top 5 universities in masse and mostly on quota.

 

Not really true. Many students who study in our IEP programme will study at Chula and other great universities. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, jenny2017 said:

Not really true. Many students who study in our IEP programme will study at Chula and other great universities. 

Perhaps you're teaching at one if the better schools? First, I'd love to know the school. Second I'd be interested if they were on provincial quota. Finally, I would love to know the number of 'many' in the graduating class that end up in top faculties at Chulalongkorn.

 

How many are in first round or second round? Not on provincial quota but from a special skill or ability. G12 onet 90%+ consistent over the entire grade? Intl programs and study abroad SATs 1400+? Medicine, Engineering, etc.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

Perhaps you're teaching at one if the better schools? First, I'd love to know the school. Second I'd be interested if they were on provincial quota. Finally, I would love to know the number of 'many' in the graduating class that end up in top faculties at Chulalongkorn.

 

How many are in first round or second round? Not on provincial quota but from a special skill or ability. G12 onet 90%+ consistent over the entire grade? Intl programs and study abroad SATs 1400+? Medicine, Engineering, etc.

 

The school is the biggest high school in a city of the lower northeast with more than 4,000 students. I can't give you exact numbers on how many finally make it to Chula and other good universities.

The school has a science section and produces quite a lot of good students compared to other high schools upcountry. 

 Not only Bangkok has good universities, I believe that Khon Kaen's Faculty of Medicine is a good and affordable university for those who'd like to work in the medical sector. 

  Not all top-tier universities in Bangkok are as good as their brochure's telling people. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/24/2018 at 4:06 AM, jenny2017 said:

I've seen Thai teachers doing worse things. OP, so more upset you'll get, so more troubles you'll have.

 

  Show them that you're the boss in the classroom and keep your lessons interesting. If they talk/listen to music, etc.. while you are in class, just stop and look at them. There's always a sort of a "leading student" in each class who'll help you to calm them down.

 

  A good trick is to tell them that you'll take them to the principles office if they continue to behave badly. I never did it, but it helped many times. At least for some minutes...

 

   

Thanks for the advice. Ill use especially the "stop and look at them" one. I like that one because the misbehaving student will probably not sure what you're really thinking or going to do which makes it work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...