Thailand elite visa - Advice needed

[pontious]

Nobody wants to see a fellow expat banned but reading other posts regarding overstay there seems to be no leniency for people 'on normal visa /extensions. '

The fact you pay 500,000 Baht for a 'special visa ' should not be an excuse not to read, and comply with the rules.

[newatthis]

I have a PE visa. It was due for it's 1 year extension on 16  June. However I went  to Singapore and returned on 11 May so my new visa stamp is valid until 11 May 2019. If I do not leave Thailand before that date, I will to apply for another 1 year extension   on that date. This is the rule.

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

I hope the OP is able to clear his situation without a ban. 

 

Boggles the mind  being literate enough to post, literate enough to read the TE documents  to understand the necessity of completing 90 day reports, but still does not understand meaning of "admitted until".  I CAN see how a 90 day report could be mistakenly be processed on whilst on overstay. I bet there are huge stacks of passports at Chaeng Wattana. Imm makes mistakes. In fact the first time I flew an international flight to CNX with PE visa the IO screwed up his gaze and gave me 90 days entry only. I If I stayed 91 it would have been  OVERSTAY and my fault alone. 

 

(I could have returned to the counter and asked him to change it  I was only planning on being in Thailand for two weeks that time so I blew it off to ignorance, or avoiding loss of face by asking supervisor )

 

 

[mduras01]

I looked over my TE visa acceptance letter and it's the very first line...1 year entry, 5 year validity. Looked at my passport and Visa stamp is 1 year. In his case, as many have mentioned, I would definitely ask TE to help and be at a lawyer's office same afternoon I received the letter. 

[DeeMak9]

On 6/21/2018 at 10:57 AM, Horace said:

If you are paying this kind of money, 500,000 Baht, for an Elite Card, Thailand Elite should clearly explain these matters to you and assist if there is a snafu.   I read you copy and paste of the message from Thailand Elite Customer Contact Center, and it manages to both be alarming and virtually incomprehensible.  I don't see the value of the Elite Card if they can't communicate the requirements to their customers in clear and comprehensible English.  I have never understood what value Thailand Elite provides to foreigners.  It seems to simply confuse matters and cause unnecessary and often serious legal problems.  Why pay 500,000 Baht for that kind of grief?

They do communicate this very clearly. I speak from experience. You either get an extension at the Bangkok Immigration after one year or leave and return the country.

[vipsvvvv]

i just received the following email

 

Greetings from Thailand Elite Customer Contact Center.

 

We are regret to inform you that our Government Relation Department tried our best to negotiate with the Department Head of  Chaeng Wattana Immigration officer, we regret to inform you that the officer checked and found that your overstay has been recorded in the immigration system which is link to  Ministry of interior (MOI). 

 

Regarding the above reason, we terribly sorry that you will be banned by the immigration for one year from your departure date. We suggest you fly out at Suvarnabhumi Airport so our Elite Personal Assistant will assist you to pass the immigration and pay penalty fee 20,000 baht. 

 

Your kind understanding of the above matter would be highly appreciated. We are looking forward to hearing from you again soonest.

 

Any further inquiries you may have, please do not hesitate to contact us at your most convenience.

 

well thats it i guess i will leave tomorrow and i dont think im coming back here again ,  i can go to a different country that i will feel more welcome and spend my hard working money but never return in thailand again in this life

 

thanks everyone and good luck

[elviajero]

Probably too late if you’re leaving tomorrow, but you could try contacting a law firm specialising in visas/immigration. They would probably be more able to negotiate with immigration than Thai Elite.

[skatewash]

5 minutes ago, vipsvvvv said:

i just received the following email

 

Greetings from Thailand Elite Customer Contact Center.

 

We are regret to inform you that our Government Relation Department tried our best to negotiate with the Department Head of  Chaeng Wattana Immigration officer, we regret to inform you that the officer checked and found that your overstay has been recorded in the immigration system which is link to  Ministry of interior (MOI). 

 

Regarding the above reason, we terribly sorry that you will be banned by the immigration for one year from your departure date. We suggest you fly out at Suvarnabhumi Airport so our Elite Personal Assistant will assist you to pass the immigration and pay penalty fee 20,000 baht. 

 

Your kind understanding of the above matter would be highly appreciated. We are looking forward to hearing from you again soonest.

 

Any further inquiries you may have, please do not hesitate to contact us at your most convenience.

 

well thats it i guess i will leave tomorrow and i dont think im coming back here again ,  i can go to a different country that i will feel more welcome and spend my hard working money but never return in thailand again in this life

 

thanks everyone and good luck

So sorry this was the outcome.  You have done a very important thing by posting about this as you can see from the thread that there are still PE visa holders who don't understand how it works.  Thank you for doing that!  I wish you the best in the future. and again very sorry this was the outcome.

[Wake Up]

I am lost for words for you man. Justice and fairness does not exist in every matter and I wish the best for you.  Thank you for sharing your story.  I don’t have an elite visa but i have thought about buying a truck in Thailand and getting a permanent place in Thailand. I don’t hate Thailand or Thai people but your story motivates me to continue to rent and not invest a lot of permanent money here in any asset.  Your result could have occurred anywhere in the world but most countries would and should go out of their way to make guys like you who spend 500,000 baht for a visa feel welcome.  ?

[newatthis]

1 hour ago, vipsvvvv said:

i just received the following email

 

Greetings from Thailand Elite Customer Contact Center.

 

We are regret to inform you that our Government Relation Department tried our best to negotiate with the Department Head of  Chaeng Wattana Immigration officer, we regret to inform you that the officer checked and found that your overstay has been recorded in the immigration system which is link to  Ministry of interior (MOI). 

 

Regarding the above reason, we terribly sorry that you will be banned by the immigration for one year from your departure date. We suggest you fly out at Suvarnabhumi Airport so our Elite Personal Assistant will assist you to pass the immigration and pay penalty fee 20,000 baht. 

 

Your kind understanding of the above matter would be highly appreciated. We are looking forward to hearing from you again soonest.

 

Any further inquiries you may have, please do not hesitate to contact us at your most convenience.

 

well thats it i guess i will leave tomorrow and i dont think im coming back here again ,  i can go to a different country that i will feel more welcome and spend my hard working money but never return in thailand again in this life

 

thanks everyone and good luck

That is very sad news, cobber. One consolation is you didn't buy the 20year Visa.

Along those lines, you have been banned for 1 year. Your TE visa is tourist visa for a total of 5 years but renewable every year. If you go this year, do you still have 2 or 3 years left on that 5 year visa after the completion of the ban or is it automatically wiped totally.

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, newatthis said:

Along those lines, you have been banned for 1 year. Your TE visa is tourist visa for a total of 5 years but renewable every year. If you go this year, do you still have 2 or 3 years left on that 5 year visa after the completion of the ban or is it automatically wiped totally.

The 5 year PE visa would be valid to use for entry after the one year ban ends.

[newatthis]

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The 5 year PE visa would be valid to use for entry after the one year ban ends.

Thank you for that info, ubonjoe.

[Horace]

Two things really stands out when you read this thread.  First, many posts demonstrating that posters don't quite understand what the Thai Elite card provides and does not provide and what the Immigration Department requires .  In other words, total confusion.  Second, a few posters claiming its' not Thai Elite's "fault" and a rather defensive claim that Thailand Elite is crystal clear about the limits to its card.  But if this second statement is true, why is there so much confusion - as evidenced by the posts on this very thread - about the differing requirements of Thai Elite and the Immigration Department?

 

Incidentally, so my main point is not misconstrued, I am not blaming Thai Elite or anyone else for this mess the OP is having.  I am just asking: what value does the Thai Elite Card provide when it generates so much anxiety and confusion?  Why pay 500,00 Baht for this grief?

Edited June 25, 2018 by Horace

[Rastaputin]

I was considering going the Thai Elite path once I stop working and retire, in a few Years.

After this fiasco, I know for certain I won't.

[skatewash]

4 minutes ago, Horace said:

Two things really stands out when you read this thread.  First, many posts demonstrating that posters don't quite understand what the Thai Elite card provides and does not provide and what the Immigration Department requires .  In other words, total confusion.  Second, a few posters claiming its' not Thai Elite's "fault" and a rather defensive claim that Thailand Elite is crystal clear about the limits to its card.  But if this second statement is true, why is there so much confusion - as evidenced by the posts on this very thread - about the differing requirements of Thai Elite and the Immigration Department?

 

Incidentally, so my main point is not misconstrued, I am not blaming Thai Elite or anyone else for this mess the OP is having.  I am just asking: what value does the Thai Elite Card provide when it generates so much anxiety and confusion?  Why pay 500,00 Baht for this grief?

I'm just guessing and I know this doesn't apply to all PE visa holders, but I think part of the problem may be that these people who end up with the PE are used to paying money to have someone else take care of things.  I don't really understand that attitude and thankfully I don't have enough money to indulge in that attitude myself anyway even if I wanted to ?.  I'm one of those people who does my own immigration work, does my own investing, does my own taxes, fix things around the house, all without paying someone else to take care of it for me.  In other words, I'm a Do-It-Yourselfer.  One of the benefits of that approach is that you become familiar with a lot of things (not an expert, by any means) but someone who takes an active interest in how to do things and how things work.  Not everyone is like that, of course.  I've learned over a lifetime that no one is going to have my best interests at heart more than I do ;-).

Hence I think there was a disconnect between the level of service they thought they were purchasing and the level of service they were actually purchasing.  They were still on the hook to leave the country every year or do an extension of stay and they were still on the hook to do the 90 Day Reports.  I'm not sure that got through and I tend to think it wasn't pounded home during the sales pitch because that's against the self-interest of the seller.  Was it included in the documentation?  Yes.  But these people who are willing to pay such a large fee for a service and convenience aren't exactly the same kind of people that would even bother reading that sort of thing.  They paid for convenience and don't feel it's necessary to waste any more of their time on this sort of thing.

So given that was a PE a good deal?  Well it wouldn't be for me because there's no comparison in the cost of the PE and my cost to do my annual retirement extensions (1,900 baht for an extension of stay, 3,800 baht for multiple re-entry permit, 200 baht to my bank for the bank letter and account statement).  Compare that to 100,000 baht, plus 1,900 for an extension of stay (if you don't leave the country at least once a year) and the choice for someone in my position is pretty clear.  5,900 baht or 101,900 baht?  I think I'll take the first one, please.  Now if I weren't 50 years old and didn't have 800,000 baht I can afford to leave in a Thai bank for 3 months every year, then maybe the PE would make sense.

In my opinion, the PE is kind of a kludge.  Instead of changing the applicable laws to allow a no-fuss, no-muss 5 year extension of stay (which appears to be what some PE customers thought they were getting) they got the actual PE which is tortuously constructed to fit into the existing immigration laws.  As a consequence the PE is not nearly as convenient as some may reasonably hope it would be.

[Horace]

4 minutes ago, skatewash said:

I'm just guessing and I know this doesn't apply to all PE visa holders, but I think part of the problem may be that these people who end up with the PE are used to paying money to have someone else take care of things.  I don't really understand that attitude and thankfully I don't have enough money to indulge in that attitude myself anyway even if I wanted to ?.  I'm one of those people who does my own immigration work, does my own investing, does my own taxes, fix things around the house, all without paying someone else to take care of it for me.  In other words, I'm a Do-It-Yourselfer.  One of the benefits of that approach is that you become familiar with a lot of things (not an expert, by any means) but someone who takes an active interest in how to do things and how things work.  Not everyone is like that, of course.  I've learned over a lifetime that no one is going to have my best interests at heart more than I do ;-).

Hence I think there was a disconnect between the level of service they thought they were purchasing and the level of service they were actually purchasing.  They were still on the hook to leave the country every year or do an extension of stay and they were still on the hook to do the 90 Day Reports.  I'm not sure that got through and I tend to think it wasn't pounded home during the sales pitch because that's against the self-interest of the seller.  Was it included in the documentation?  Yes.  But these people who are willing to pay such a large fee for a service and convenience aren't exactly the same kind of people that would even bother reading that sort of thing.  They paid for convenience and don't feel it's necessary to waste any more of their time on this sort of thing.

So given that was a PE a good deal?  Well it wouldn't be for me because there's no comparison in the cost of the PE and my cost to do my annual retirement extensions (1,900 baht for an extension of stay, 3,800 baht for multiple re-entry permit, 200 baht to my bank for the bank letter and account statement).  Compare that to 100,000 baht, plus 1,900 for an extension of stay (if you don't leave the country at least once a year) and the choice for someone in my position is pretty clear.  5,900 baht or 101,900 baht?  I think I'll take the first one, please.  Now if I weren't 50 years old and didn't have 800,000 baht I can afford to leave in a Thai bank for 3 months every year, then maybe the PE would make sense.

In my opinion, the PE is kind of a kludge.  Instead of changing the applicable laws to allow a no-fuss, no-muss 5 year extension of stay (which appears to be what some PE customers thought they were getting) they got the actual PE which is tortuously constructed to fit into the existing immigration laws.  As a consequence the PE is not nearly as convenient as some may reasonably hope it would be.

Good and insightful post, particularly the part about the type of person who would be inclined to use the PE program.  That was in the back of my mind, but you spelled it out much better than I did.

[Mattd]

41 minutes ago, Horace said:

many posts demonstrating that posters don't quite understand what the Thai Elite card provides and does not provide and what the Immigration Department requires .  In other words, total confusion. 

I personally think it is partly the way the Thailand Elite promote the PE visa and also because some of the folks that have gone this route have simply not bothered to read the small print and believed that because they have spent this much on a 5 year visa, then that is what it is.

This was evidenced by a previous poster who absolutely insisted that he could stay for 5 years without going to immigration, whilst neglecting to say he was departing the country within the year.

 

[KhaoYai]

Well I'm totally confused after reading all this.  I remember looking at TE a while ago and thought "why would I want to pay that and still be required to report etc".

 

What I find really confusing is the guy who posted earlier that he had applied for a TE visa having stayed to that point on a retirement visa (he stated that his retirement visa was cancelled when he received the TE visa).  Maybe I'm missing something but a TE Visa costs 500,000 for 5 years right - that's the cost, once you've paid it, its gone right? For a retirement extension if you don't have foreign income of 65,000 per month you need to have 800,000 in the bank but that money remains yours. Provided you meet all the requirements there is no limit on retirement visa extensions right? So you can easily stay longer than the 5 year duration of the TE and the only cost is the yearly extension, correct?

 

The only difference that I can see is that you have to extend the retirement visa every year so why would anyone want to pay 500,000 for a TE?  Having to do the extension may be a bit of a pain but I'd be prepared to do a hell of a lot of extensions for 500,000.

 

Or am I missing something?

[Wake Up]

While I agree with a lot of posters discussing this issue ——my point is simple. When a foreigner is willing to pay 500,000 baht for a five year visa to live in a country where the average Thai worker makes 9,000 baht a month, the country should do all it can do to attract and keep the 500,000 baht Visa purchaser happy and in Thailand. Not ban him for a year or criticize him for failing to read every detail.  Peace and feel bad for the OP. 

[skatewash]

5 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Well I'm totally confused after reading all this.  I remember looking at TE a while ago and thought "why would I want to pay that and still be required to report etc".

 

What I find really confusing is the guy who posted earlier that he had applied for a TE visa having stayed to that point on a retirement visa (he stated that his retirement visa was cancelled when he received the TE visa).  Maybe I'm missing something but a TE Visa costs 500,000 for 5 years right - that's the cost, once you've paid it, its gone right? For a retirement extension if you don't have foreign income of 65,000 per month you need to have 800,000 in the bank but that money remains yours. Provided you meet all the requirements there is no limit on retirement visa extensions right? So you can easily stay longer than the 5 year duration of the TE and the only cost is the yearly extension, correct?

 

The only difference that I can see is that you have to extend the retirement visa every year so why would anyone want to pay 500,000 for a TE?  Having to do the extension may be a bit of a pain but I'd be prepared to do a hell of a lot of extensions for 500,000.

 

Or am I missing something?

Yes, you missed that the PE investment ties your boat to Thailand for a period of 5 years, whereas other alternatives like the annual retirement extension only does so for one year.  The annual extension is much more flexible than a 5 year commitment.  For example, what happens to you if you have to return to your home country for long-term medical care in year two of the PE?  There's the risk that things can change in time.  This is true of both the PE and annual retirement extension, but you are exposed to that risk for a period five times longer with a PE rather than an annual retirement extension.

[darrendsd]

5 minutes ago, Wake Up said:

While I agree with a lot of posters discussing this issue ——my point is simple. When a foreigner is willing to pay 500,000 baht for a five year visa to live in a country where the average Thai worker makes 9,000 baht a month, the country should do all it can do to attract and keep the 500,000 baht Visa purchaser happy and in Thailand. Not ban him for a year or criticize him for failing to read every detail.  Peace and feel bad for the OP. 

It's not actually every detail, it's a very important detail that is outlined on both the website and the welcome pack received

 

I feel sympathy for the OP but like all of us he has to abide by the Immigration rules here

[overherebc]

10 minutes ago, Wake Up said:

While I agree with a lot of posters discussing this issue ——my point is simple. When a foreigner is willing to pay 500,000 baht for a five year visa to live in a country where the average Thai worker makes 9,000 baht a month, the country should do all it can do to attract and keep the 500,000 baht Visa purchaser happy and in Thailand. Not ban him for a year or criticize him for failing to read every detail.  Peace and feel bad for the OP. 

It is still the only long term way for someone under 50 and single of course to get away from the continual renewing of tourist visas, single or multi entry.

I don't think it was meant for long term living in Thailand, it was meant to attract people with plenty of cash and single or people in the business world who would be in and out of Thailand for business purposes a few weeks at a time because of business requirements.

Edited June 25, 2018 by overherebc

[jackdd]

32 minutes ago, overherebc said:

I don't think it was meant for long term living in Thailand, it was meant to attract people with plenty of cash and single or people in the business world who would be in and out of Thailand for business purposes a few weeks at a time because of business requirements.

There is a section in the Immigration Act which limits the max. temporary stay for most purposes to 1 year, so they give the maximum time possible.

Probably there is also a law somewhere which says a visa can only be valid for maximum 5 years, so when you buy 20 years you get 4 times 5 years.

Of course it would have been more convenient if you would simply get an "admitted until" stamp with the end date of the TEV (and a TEV visa with 20 years), but that seems to be not possible with the current laws, so they took what they could get.

 

 

2 hours ago, newatthis said:

Along those lines, you have been banned for 1 year. Your TE visa is tourist visa for a total of 5 years but renewable every year. If you go this year, do you still have 2 or 3 years left on that 5 year visa after the completion of the ban or is it automatically wiped totally.

His visa would still be valid, but there is another problem. If you spend many years in a country, and are willing to spend this money on a 5 year visa it might be because you consider staying there forever. But the ban will stay in the Immigration System for the rest of your life, and if you ever got banned from Thailand you can be refused entry just for that. So this might give you some extra troubles in the future, and you might think about staying somewhere else where you don't have to worry about being refused entry every time you arrive even with a visa.

Edited June 25, 2018 by jackdd

[Caldera]

I think it's very telling that neither Thailand Elite nor Immigration spotted the overstay when the previous 90-day report was processed. Back then, it could still have been fixed without too much grief.

 

So, while I do agree that it's the OP's responsibility to get acquainted with the rules and conditions, it's also very obvious that neither Thailand Elite (surprisingly) nor Immigration (less surprisingly) provide the level of service and professionalism one would expect when paying such a tidy amount for what's essentially a very simple product. Shame on them.

[digbeth]

They seem to be selling the 'eilte' experience as a concierge service, they already do the 90 day report for you and book all sort of place at a discount, maybe if there's a reason they can't legally do the yearly extension, maybe most of the jetsetters don't need to... at least they could have a data on every of their client, when they entered and how long their stamps last until and at least made an effort to reach out and contact the customer.

 

Even if for legal reason you have to be at immigration in person to make the extension, they could at least make an appointment for you to skip the queue or check your documents that everything in order and escort you through the process.

 

The only recourse now is maybe try to sue them for the overstay fine, but I'm pretty sure when you signed up they had tried to explain and had you sign things that cover their asses already.

[ukrules]

On 6/23/2018 at 3:08 PM, BEVUP said:

Here's another one, if you google my previous quote just tap into the first couple on the first page (didn't need to go any further )

 

How does the five (5) year visa work?
The Member is granted a special five (5)-year multiple entry VISA with automatic approval of one 1 year stay. The Member is also exempt from the requirement to leave Thailand extend length of stay but is subject to stay extension fee (1900 THB) as stated in the Thai Immigration service duty charges. Member only require to visit Immigration office once every 12 months, if member never leave Thailand for one year.

That's exactly how it works.

 

One year entry each time you arrive, you do the 90 day reports and an extension of stay at the end of every year if you don't leave the country for the entire year.

 

I haven't left Thailand since I got my 5 year visa back in 2014 so I'm on the last year now, one year extensions for 900 Baht every year. It works perfectly and never fails.

 

For someone to not know that you have to do a yearly extension on this visa is kind of surprising to me.

 

I do partially blame immigration for this situation progressing to the point of getting blacklisted because to be 150 days into an overstay assuming all 90 day reports were done suggests that at least one 90 day report was issued when it shouldn't have been. They should have caught this way before this time, rejected the 90 day report and sent a letter or some kind of notification letting him know. I guess someone somewhere didn't bother to do their job properly.

 

 

[darrendsd]

3 hours ago, digbeth said:

The only recourse now is maybe try to sue them for the overstay fine, but I'm pretty sure when you signed up they had tried to explain and had you sign things that cover their asses already.

What "covers their asses" is something they have clearly explained on both the website and the welcome pack

 

The Overstay fine is 20k, how much do you think it will cost to "sue them" not as though he would have a hope in hell of actually winning anyway

[chickenslegs]

So, the 500,000 THB fee includes reminders to do your 90-day reports but doesn't include reminders to apply for your (automatic, no quibble) 1 year extension.

 

But that's OK ...

Quote

  ... members are greeted by charming Thailand Elites staff each time they enter the country.

They better be really charming at that price.

[KhaoYai]

Jeez,

 

All these foreigners coming over here, spending shedloads of money, starting businesses and employing at least 4 Thai's, making no demands on the non-existent health service, renting otherwise worthless property................and they want long stay visas without having to report their whereabouts on 1 day out of 90.  God, what will they want next?

[Mattd]

14 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Well I'm totally confused after reading all this.  I remember looking at TE a while ago and thought "why would I want to pay that and still be required to report etc".

 

What I find really confusing is the guy who posted earlier that he had applied for a TE visa having stayed to that point on a retirement visa (he stated that his retirement visa was cancelled when he received the TE visa).  Maybe I'm missing something but a TE Visa costs 500,000 for 5 years right - that's the cost, once you've paid it, its gone right? For a retirement extension if you don't have foreign income of 65,000 per month you need to have 800,000 in the bank but that money remains yours. Provided you meet all the requirements there is no limit on retirement visa extensions right? So you can easily stay longer than the 5 year duration of the TE and the only cost is the yearly extension, correct?

 

The only difference that I can see is that you have to extend the retirement visa every year so why would anyone want to pay 500,000 for a TE?  Having to do the extension may be a bit of a pain but I'd be prepared to do a hell of a lot of extensions for 500,000.

 

Or am I missing something?

The only thing that you are missing is the fact the ones that have paid 500,000 THB for their PE visa still have to carry out the yearly extension if they don't leave the country, so no advantage at all to change from a retirement extension to a PE visa.

 

14 hours ago, jackdd said:

There is a section in the Immigration Act which limits the max. temporary stay for most purposes to 1 year, so they give the maximum time possible.

They could negotiate with the powers that be and have this extended to 2 years at a time, as per the BOI / IEAT rules on extensions.