mark lamai Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Former Thai PM Thaksin: "I'm Calling It Quits" is Thailand now called 'Quitsland" ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Thaksin hires high-profile Washington lobbyists Ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra has hired the Baker Botts law firm headed by former Secretary of State James Baker, according to a US lobbying registration form obtained on Wednesday by a senior Democrat Party executive. Korbsak Sabhavasu showed a registration form from America which indicated Mr Baker and his firm are to represent Mr Thaksin as the "freely elected Prime Minister of Thailand". This is proof Mr Thaksin has no intention of quitting politics, said Mr Korbsak. "I expose this story to tell the Thais that Mr Thaksin is not quitting politics," he said. "He said one thing while doing another thing." During his interviews with foreign media in the past month, Mr Thaksin has repeatedly vowed to quit politics. Many doubt his word. According to the form shown by Mr Korbsak to reporters on Wednesday, Mr Thaksin signed a contract with Baker Botts LLP last Dec 11, just short of three months after he was ousted. Continued here: http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/tops...s.php?id=116637 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 photoshop required ....................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Thaksin hires high-profile Washington lobbyists this ones a day or two old at least ............... news is that the Bkk P just picked it up .................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
younghusband Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 I think capital punishment is not an appropriate punishment for the junta leaders, even though they did illegally seize power from an elected government. Technically it was not an elected government, it was a care taker government, if the constitution wasn't scrapped, Surayud's would only be another caretaker government, and elections postponed by a year instead of by two months. Besides, what is illegal in Thailand? The victors write the laws here more than anywhere else. The coup has been declared legal. You can't punish generals by existing laws, you'd need to rewrite the laws again (after you win). If we judge them by some absolute notion of right and wrong, many people think that Thaksin's government has been illegal from the start and the coup corrected this injustice. Re. Thailand's future - any challenge to existing power structures is unthinkable. We all sort of agree that Thaksin, in fact challenged it, but please note that he never ever dared to declare so publicly, he'd have lost all support in a matter of seconds and probably lynched. <snip> I'm not sure about your last paragraph.That's why even from the perspective of the elite's interests, the coup was such a dreadful mistake.Insiders -and I would include most educated Thais - know exactly what the coup makers were trying to achieve, but it (which cannot be mentioned) and the reassertion of premocracy was almost certainly counter productive.Nothing will happen quickly barring an event representing very bad fortune for us all.Then things might change very quickly indeed. I can certainly agree any challenge to the existing repeat existing power structure is unthinkable.But history will judge. Nearly every educated Thai was, and is still, sick of Thaksin's greed, arrogance and boorishness. To keep referring to a certain other factor as the not so young husband does, is actually to miss the point. The educated and informed had sussed out his greed and destructiveness, all that mattered after that was who controlled the army. Thaksin knew that but he miscalculated when he went to New York. I don't disagree with your summary of Thaksin's character.The "other factor" is certainly part of the picture but the main issue is the false assumption, which you seem to share, that only the educated middle class can speak for the nation.The resources of the country are skewed in favour of this minority so no wonder it is generally attached to the status quo.The "middle class" rage with Thaksin is that he touched off the politics of the majority, not really his corruption alone.And talking of greed,arrogance and boorishness doesn't this rather well sum up the attitude of the Bangkok elite for the majority of Thais?I suppose one would have to add hypocrisy as well with the current enthusiasm for the nice but dim sufficiency economy. Interesting that you look for a laugh by calling me "not so young husband".I thought we were recently encouraged to value the opinions of the old and experienced. Finally you are profoundly mistaken if you believe Thaksin doesn't retain very significant support among middle class Thais. My educated guess would be split down the centre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Clifton Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 photoshop required ....................... A dead battery is disposable and can even be forever recharged. Ex-PM was deposable and thought he'd forever be in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John K Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Thaksin hires high-profile Washington lobbyistsOusted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra has hired the Baker Botts law firm headed by former Secretary of State James Baker, according to a US lobbying registration form obtained on Wednesday by a senior Democrat Party executive. Korbsak Sabhavasu showed a registration form from America which indicated Mr Baker and his firm are to represent Mr Thaksin as the "freely elected Prime Minister of Thailand". This is proof Mr Thaksin has no intention of quitting politics, said Mr Korbsak. "I expose this story to tell the Thais that Mr Thaksin is not quitting politics," he said. "He said one thing while doing another thing." During his interviews with foreign media in the past month, Mr Thaksin has repeatedly vowed to quit politics. Many doubt his word. According to the form shown by Mr Korbsak to reporters on Wednesday, Mr Thaksin signed a contract with Baker Botts LLP last Dec 11, just short of three months after he was ousted. Continued here: http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/tops...s.php?id=116637 Well I think that opens to door for the international media attack dogs to go after him, no more powder puff interviews. Add to that the comment from China that they will not let him launch attacks from China. The word attack is a bit of a giveaway. I wonder if the Thai government will go after his assets now for campaigning before the official start date. Why is it starting to feel like early September again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 (edited) Thaksin hires high-profile Washington lobbyists this ones a day or two old at least ............... news is that the Bkk P just picked it up .................... It's brand new as far as I know; are you sure you're not confusing this most recent hire with the OTHER American lobbying firm that he hired previously? 1. Barbour, Griffith, and Rogers 2. Baker Botts Edited February 7, 2007 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColPyat Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Interesting that you look for a laugh by calling me "not so young husband".I thought we were recently encouraged to value the opinions of the old and experienced. And interesting that while looking for another cheap laugh by some infantile word games with people's board handles our dear Siripon completely misses the point of the "Younghusband" handle. Maybe a lesson in Asian history would serve him/her well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Thaksin hires high-profile Washington lobbyists this ones a day or two old at least ............... news is that the Bkk P just picked it up .................... It's brand new as far as I know; are you sure you're not confusing this most recent hire with the OTHER American lobbying firm that he hired previously? 1. Barbour, Griffith, and Rogers 2. Baker Botts fair call ................ in that case , how many does he need ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John K Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Mid, Knowing Thaksin as many as possible. It lends to the bomb theory he is involved. It was a catalyst excuse to get in the news, just like the car bomb that was not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 (edited) He's not one to sit idly by, is he? Nor is he one to not send conflicting messages.... Former Thai premier Thaksin tees off in Bali JAKARTA - Former Thai prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra on Wednesday arrived in Bali for golf and shopping on his second visit to the Indonesian resort island since he was ousted in a coup last year, reports said. Thaksin landed in a private plane and later played a round of golf at the Tabanan course. "I enjoy golf. I like this place (Bali) and stay here to play golf," he told reporters, the Detikcom news portal said. Thaksin said he had no plans to catch up with his friend, Social Welfare Minister Aburizal Bakrie this time. Bakrie was reportedly occupied with the floods in Jakarta. "I will only play golf. I am enjoying my long vacation. After not being Thai PM, I have plenty of time to relax," he said, adding that he would also go shopping. Thaksin last visited Bali for a few days with his wife in November and stayed at a secluded residence attached to a luxury hotel in the Nusa Dua tourist area. He has lived in exile since the September coup, first in London and now hopping around Asia. - AFP ------------------------------------- Interesting how his most recent words conflict with the most recent lobbying firm registration form: "After not being Thai PM" versus "the freely elected Prime Minister of Thailand" :D Edited February 7, 2007 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 ahhh well... he's soon to become Australia's headache... Look out OZ! Thakky's on his way. Thaksin visits Bali again JAKARTA: Former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra arrived in Bali Wednesday morning, his second visit to the resort island after he was forced to leave their post. He said that his second visit was just for vacation and he would not meet anybody. "My visit to Bali is just for holiday. I do not plan to meet anybody," Thaksin was quoted by Antara news agency as saying Wednesday. He added that before leaving for Melbourne, Australia, Thursday, he would play golf on the main Indonesian resort. During his November visit to the island, Thaksin met several important figures, including Coordinating Minister for People's Welfare Abu Rizal Bakrie. - Jakarta Post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 A QUESTION FOR THAKSINWhat would you like to ask Thaksin? After giving interviews to the Western media, deposed prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra is now welcoming the Thai media to interview him. The Nation website would like to invite our online readers to pose one question you most want to ask Thaksin. Selected questions will be published but we maintain the right to delete questions deemed inappropriate. Send it now!!! http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/02/06...es_30026115.php =============================================== some entertaining ones have already been posted.... From our website: If you could ask Thaksin a question, what would it be? They came fast and furious Our invitation for visitors to nationmultimedia.com to post a question they wanted to ask Thaksin Shinawatra the most, has drawn an overwhelming response. Some were sarcastic, others sincere, and many had to be taken with a grain of salt. The following are some of the more interesting examples (edited, of course - if you think the language is aggressive and that this is a rather lopsided selection of quotes, you haven't been to our website yet): Overseas Thai Why do you feel that you need to hire a Publicist, if you do not plan to continue in politics? Thaksin Observer Why do you always say one thing, then do the opposite (mostly)? This is a matter of fact, while watching you for over four years. Chula student Did you really intend, Mr Thaksin, to be a role model for Thai youngsters as a successful tax cheat, a mega vote-buying democrat, an extra-judicial-killing policeman, insatiably greedy, conflict-of-interest PM of Thailand? World Citizen What do you want your supporters to do for you and your country? Just come back, Sonthi is nobody to stop you. Thailand does not belong to him. Bank Dear Thaksin ... tell us the truth … how much money do you really have? Stephff What sacrifice are you ready to make for the country as a private citizen? Are you ready to give away a part of your wealth to start some kind of foundation Bill Gates-style? Dutch politics student When it comes to 'welfare and stability' or 'democracy' (as the full package), which one has a higher value in Thai society according to you? And, why do you think that? Is there anything Thais would trade off for welfare or stability in the country? Ou Macca Mania How would you solve the problem of Suvarnabhumi Airport which you tried to open too fast? Will you take responsibility? A foreign politics student Mister Thaksin, what do you think of the negative tone that is set in the media around your ' pro-poor' policies? Aren't pro-poor policies (although perhaps more thoroughly thought through) what Thailand needs? A Citizen Mr Thaksin, you were very confident of NO corruption in building Suvarnabhumi Airport, but now that we see the proof of low quality construction with cracks in the runway, taxiway, cracks in boarding bridges and many, many more - barely four months after it was opened. What would your answer be? Farge Observing your politics, why the sudden outing now? Wasn't it actually more appropriate to do more public clarification and interviews on all the accused and mentioned allegations during your time as PM? Anti-thaksin Will you agree to have Khun Sonthi Limthongkul debate with you on TV to thrash out the bad deeds you have done to Thailand? Will you dare? B When do you think the Thai people will realise that a country run by an illegal military junta will never prosper? The Quiet American Did you write your own PhD thesis? Ah Seng Besides answering to Thais, how are you going to answer to Singapore for all the problems they got from you? A frog in the mist Why? You had it all ... why did you have to go into politics? Arjay Thaksin, if you had the chance to re-live the past, would you have paid the taxes from the sale of Shin Corp? Well-Wisher of Thailand Everything was going so well with your leadership. But, where did you go wrong? Oj Do you still think you were ousted from Thailand because of simple jealousy (of your wealth)? F-1 Mr Thaksin was that a Daimler or a Jaguar you gave to one general during the formation of your telecom Shinawatra enterprise? My friend said a Daimler but I thought it was a Jag. And was it a bribe or a gift? - The Nation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John K Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 I think he will wave his little x sign for each of the questions. However very good question, not one off base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Thailand's ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra talks to the media at a golf club in Tanah Lot, Bali, Indonesia, Wednesday, Feb. 7, 2006. Thaksin arrived at Indonesian island resort of Bali on Wednesday morning aboard his private airplane, Indonesia' Antara news agency said. AP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshiwara Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 don't believe it....he's a shrivelled version of the terminator: 'I'll be back' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Clifton Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 (edited) My question was: "Would you be willing to testify while taking a polygraph test? (lie detector)" And here's old predictable Thaksin saying something and then... So predictable. Thaksin earlier this week said he would give interviews to the Thai media but reversed his decision yesterday, his lawyer Noppodol said. http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/02/08...es_30026283.php Edited February 7, 2007 by Tony Clifton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maejo Man Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 ahhh well... he's soon to become Australia's headache... Look out OZ! Thakky's on his way. He added that before leaving for Melbourne, Australia, Thursday, he would play golf on the main Indonesian resort. - Jakarta Post It will be interesting to see where he stays in Melbourne. I would say he will opt to stay in one of the luxury hotels, rather than "slumming" it with some of his relatives that live there. Heaven forbid that he sould visit any of his real estate holdings there for fear of giving the media more ammunition. I'd be interested to know, now that he's a private citizen, where he actually applied for his Australian tourist visa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John K Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 My question was:"Would you be willing to testify while taking a polygraph test? (lie detector)" And here's old predictable Thaksin saying something and then... So predictable. Thaksin earlier this week said he would give interviews to the Thai media but reversed his decision yesterday, his lawyer Noppodol said. http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/02/08...es_30026283.php I guess he suddenly realized that it was not going to be a powderpuff interview. I bet Thaksin really starting to dislike the “Freedom of information act” in the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 .....the main issue is the false assumption, which you seem to share, that only the educated middle class can speak for the nation.The resources of the country are skewed in favour of this minority so no wonder it is generally attached to the status quo.That middle classes form the foundation of democracy seems to be the general consensus. I just read that the other day in connection with Friedman's economic theories. I don't know what exactly you mean by skewed resources - 60% of farmers produce only 10% of GDP, isn't only natural that they don't get 60% of resources/benefits? The "middle class" rage with Thaksin is that he touched off the politics of the majority, not really his corruption alone. Hold on - no one believes that Thaksin represented the majority's interests, only his own. No one protested against farmers interests, only Thaksin's. Many hate him for that - for duping poor farmers into his own power game. He then called every attack on him an attack on all farmers. That is really disgusting. And talking of greed,arrogance and boorishness doesn't this rather well sum up the attitude of the Bangkok elite for the majority of Thais?I suppose one would have to add hypocrisy as well with the current enthusiasm for the nice but dim sufficiency economy. I haven't sensed any greed, arrogance, or boorishness towards farmers among Bangkokians. Where did you get that from? Who do you mean by "Bangkok elite"? Finally you are profoundly mistaken if you believe Thaksin doesn't retain very significant support among middle class Thais. My educated guess would be split down the centre. What is it based on? In the past elections Thaksin carried Bangkok on the strength of urban poor, especially in outlying districts. Whatever support he had among middle classes completely disappeared last year and April election results only confirm this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jai Dee Posted February 8, 2007 Author Share Posted February 8, 2007 'Traitor' used to describe Thaksin Saprang launches barrage of vitriol at former PM, says he has a cell for him A junta member yesterday made a veiled attack against ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra who criticised the royal thinking on the sufficiency economy theory, saying the true colours of a traitor would prove to be his own downfall. "The traitor is slated to be banished to live forever in the jungle because there is no place in society for a deceitful politician," Council for National Security (CNS) assistant secretary-general Saprang Kalayanamitra said, without mentioning any names. Saprang spoke to a group of 1,000 local politicians, government officials and community leaders, rallying them to assist in uprooting the legacy of the ousted government. He was on a tour of north-eastern provinces as part of a CNS campaign against the deposed regime. "Civil servants should know they are dispensing duties on His Majesty's behalf, so they are not supposed to allow themselves to become henchmen for rogue politicians," he said. "The CNS had to step in to usher in political reforms because of widespread power abuses." It was everyone's duty to prevent a repeat of the grand-scale manipulation of the political system to hold on to power, he said. "The irregularities plaguing the construction of Suvarnabhumi Airport show how corrupt politicians rigged the state coffers and spread the money around to boost their power," Saprang said. He said the CNS wanted to improve the political system so as to ensure that the rogue Thaksin regime could not regain power. "If rogue politicians return to power following the next general election, the three pillars of society - the nation, religion and the monarchy - might crumble due to more attacks," he said. After delivering his speech, he voiced optimism that politics would be back on track after members of the public realised what had gone wrong with the ousted government. "The political awareness of each individual is more important than any changes in mechanisms," he said. Saprang repeated his message in similar gatherings at Maha Sarakham and Udon Thani, where he talked to local government officials and residents. He urged public officials to be proud of their dignity. In Udon Thani, the general said "lackeys of some corrupt politicians" were campaigning against the CNS and the government. "We already know who is the mastermind. But now he's overseas. As soon as he returns, I will have jail ready for him." Source: The Nation - 8 February 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 "The traitor is slated to be banished to live forever in the jungle because there is no place in society for a deceitful politician," Council for National Security (CNS) assistant secretary-general Saprang Kalayanamitra said, without mentioning any names. wow , found them eh hope some more of your peers find theirs ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asd Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Thaksin hires high-profile Washington lobbyistsOusted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra has hired the Baker Botts law firm headed by former Secretary of State James Baker, according to a US lobbying registration form obtained on Wednesday by a senior Democrat Party executive. Korbsak Sabhavasu showed a registration form from America which indicated Mr Baker and his firm are to represent Mr Thaksin as the "freely elected Prime Minister of Thailand". This is proof Mr Thaksin has no intention of quitting politics, said Mr Korbsak. "I expose this story to tell the Thais that Mr Thaksin is not quitting politics," he said. "He said one thing while doing another thing." During his interviews with foreign media in the past month, Mr Thaksin has repeatedly vowed to quit politics. Many doubt his word. According to the form shown by Mr Korbsak to reporters on Wednesday, Mr Thaksin signed a contract with Baker Botts LLP last Dec 11, just short of three months after he was ousted. Continued here: http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/tops...s.php?id=116637 Baker, James Addison III (1930- ) American lawyer, campaign manager and diplomat, chief of staff under Ronald Reagan (1981-1985), Secretary of the Treasury (1985-1988), Secretary of State (1989-1992) Author: Tim Wheeler People's Weekly World Newspaper, 01/19/02 00:00 Enron also pumped an estimated $2 million into the Bush-Cheney campaign. Bush regularly flew from one campaign stop to another aboard Enron jets. Enron was so determined to put Bush in the White House that they sent their top lawyer, former Secretary of State James A. Baker III, to Florida to orchestrate the stealing of the 2000 presidential election. Source : http://sopr.senate.gov/cgi-win/m_opr_viewe...&sequence=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 (edited) For Google Earth users, the address on his registration form looks rather posh: thaksin_london.kmz Thaksin, 55 Park Lane, London Can any Londoners out there confirm? Edited February 8, 2007 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jai Dee Posted February 8, 2007 Author Share Posted February 8, 2007 Democrat leader wants Thai govt to ask for US reaction on lobbyist case Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva suggested the Thai government to see the reaction of the United States government on the case where former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra hired a major lobbyist company from the US to release the news relating to him. Previously, the US Ambassador to Thailand commented on this issue, saying Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin has the right to hire a lobbyist company and it is unrelated to the US policy towards Thailand. However, Mr. Abhisit considered that the case is unusual and the Thai government should inquire for the US government’s clear response. Mr. Abhisit said this case is related to Thai politics and it could affect Thailand’s foreign relations. Meanwhile, First Lieutenant Kuthep Saikrajang, the Thai Rak Thai Party legal advisor, criticized the Democrat Party for trying to create a commotion. He said Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin has announced his political retirement and he does not want to be a Prime Minister again. First Lieutenant Kuthep said the reason Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin has hired a lobbyist agency is because he wants to protect his rights and rectify other’s accusations. Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 08 Febuary 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Meanwhile, First Lieutenant Kuthep Saikrajang, the Thai Rak Thai Party legal advisor, criticized the Democrat Party for trying to create a commotion. He said Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin has announced his political retirement and he does not want to be a Prime Minister again. First Lieutenant Kuthep said the reason Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin has hired a lobbyist agency is because he wants to protect his rights and rectify other’s accusations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
younghusband Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 .....the main issue is the false assumption, which you seem to share, that only the educated middle class can speak for the nation.The resources of the country are skewed in favour of this minority so no wonder it is generally attached to the status quo.That middle classes form the foundation of democracy seems to be the general consensus. I just read that the other day in connection with Friedman's economic theories. I don't know what exactly you mean by skewed resources - 60% of farmers produce only 10% of GDP, isn't only natural that they don't get 60% of resources/benefits? The "middle class" rage with Thaksin is that he touched off the politics of the majority, not really his corruption alone. Hold on - no one believes that Thaksin represented the majority's interests, only his own. No one protested against farmers interests, only Thaksin's. Many hate him for that - for duping poor farmers into his own power game. He then called every attack on him an attack on all farmers. That is really disgusting. And talking of greed,arrogance and boorishness doesn't this rather well sum up the attitude of the Bangkok elite for the majority of Thais?I suppose one would have to add hypocrisy as well with the current enthusiasm for the nice but dim sufficiency economy. I haven't sensed any greed, arrogance, or boorishness towards farmers among Bangkokians. Where did you get that from? Who do you mean by "Bangkok elite"? Finally you are profoundly mistaken if you believe Thaksin doesn't retain very significant support among middle class Thais. My educated guess would be split down the centre. What is it based on? In the past elections Thaksin carried Bangkok on the strength of urban poor, especially in outlying districts. Whatever support he had among middle classes completely disappeared last year and April election results only confirm this I am not sure why you think the consensus is that the middle class is the foundation of democracy.That might apply in developed countries where the middle class represents the majority.If you are saying that the middle class tends to be in the vanguard of political movements, I would agree with you. Thaksin is a politician, and not a very savoury one, but not that different fom other politicians in his motivation.Politicians everywhere want to get elected and consolidate the maximum level of support. He certainly enlisted the rural majority, albeit for his political agenda, but again that's what politicians do everywhere.I'm not sure he realised he understood that by becoming the peoples' champion, he would enrage the power elite who regarded popular adulation as belonging elsewhere....well you get the drift. The attitude of most middle class Thais to the great unwashed majority is more or less as I describe it....though there are many individual kind and sincere people who buck the trend.Generally it's not cruelty but a patronising disdain, comical really because very few Thais are more than three generations from the paddy fields .Answering your final point I'm not certain of the extent of middle class support for Thaksin.You may be right it is smaller than I suggested, though who knows this may be changing with the incompetence of the junta and the increasingly hysterical North Korean type propaganda on various fronts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 I am not sure why you think the consensus is that the middle class is the foundation of democracy.That might apply in developed countries where the middle class represents the majority.If you are saying that the middle class tends to be in the vanguard of political movements, I would agree with you. Because I heard it numerous times. Basically I think it's because middle classes are not interested in either acquiring or preserving power like upper or lower classes, because they are self-reliant and thus more objective than lower classes, because they are better educatied and thus less succeptible to political manipulation. The best quick quote from Wikipedia: "Although they are not part of the system of government as such, the presence of a middle class, and a broad and flourishing civil society are often seen as pre-conditions for liberal democracy. For countries without a strong tradition of democratic majority rule, the introduction of free elections alone has rarely been sufficient to achieve a transition from dictatorship to democracy; a wider shift in the political culture and gradual formation of the institutions of democratic government are needed. There are various examples, like in Latin America, of countries that were able to sustain democracy only temporarily or in limited form until wider cultural changes occurred to allow true majority rule." Thaksin is a politician, and not a very savoury one, but not that different fom other politicians in his motivation.Politicians everywhere want to get elected and consolidate the maximum level of support. He certainly enlisted the rural majority, albeit for his political agenda, but again that's what politicians do everywhere.I'm not sure he realised he understood that by becoming the peoples' champion, he would enrage the power elite who regarded popular adulation as belonging elsewhere....well you get the drift.That politicians are the same everywhere is not an excuse. By the same logic politicians regularly get ousted by coups in thrid world countries, too. And I still object to calling Thaksin "champion of the poor". He treated them as his customers, he did a lot business with them, but he is not their champion. Businesses are not champions of consumers by definition.The attitude of most middle class Thais to the great unwashed majority is more or less as I describe it....though there are many individual kind and sincere people who buck the trend.Generally it's not cruelty but a patronising disdain, comical really because very few Thais are more than three generations from the paddy fields . And that is precisely why I find it hard to believe you. Considering how fast Bangkok grew in the past two decades about half of Bangkokians have their parents and extended families still living upcountry. Do they display arrogance towards them? I haven't noticed it. Surely there are some snobs here, just like everywhere else, but I don't see them very often. Where do you find these people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColPyat Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 And that is precisely why I find it hard to believe you. Considering how fast Bangkok grew in the past two decades about half of Bangkokians have their parents and extended families still living upcountry. Do they display arrogance towards them? I haven't noticed it. Surely there are some snobs here, just like everywhere else, but I don't see them very often. Where do you find these people? Upcountry does not equate 'poor', or 'low class'. Provincial and rural Thailand has exactly the same class system. You will find though very few urban middle class that come from poor upcountry families, who are depending on land less than ten Rai, or have no land and depend on seasonal labour. Most urban middle class do come from well to do rural or provincial families. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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