Plant Based Nutrition and Fasting

[Kohsamida]

I wanted to start this thread because I have become passionate about these two aspects of health and want to share what I've learned as well as exchange ideas with other like-minded people on these subject.  Please understand that I want this to be about science-based information, not the usual scammy stuff that litters the internet written by self-proclaimed "gurus", who, more often than not, are simply trying to get your money by selling you diets, books, or supplements.  Of equal importance, I want it to be as genuinely science-based as possible rather than simply anecdotal or loose conjecture. 

 

To my way of thinking, many of today's major health problems can be attributed to poor nutrition.  The problem is that many modern-day physicians are poorly educated in nutrition, and even professional nutritionists are often not the best source of information.  It is therefore up to the individual to take responsibility for their OWN health.

 

Unfortunately, that's easier said than done.  The internet is littered with all sort of health gurus and self-proclaimed experts promising cures and solutions to almost every health problem and most of them are a waste of time and money.  What's worse is that these people literally overwhelm the internet with their nonsense claims, biased studies, or outright lies, making it almost impossible to search for valid, genuinely science-based information.  In starting this topic, I simply want a place that can be free of that, and aimed at the special needs of Farangs.  I mean, aside from the difficulties I described, there are additional challenges imposed by living here in Thailand, compared with western countries.

 

Hopefully this topic can remain focused on 1) Plant-based nutrition, and 2) Therapeutic fasting for health (i.e.: autophagy).

[Kohsamida]

Where I'm coming from:  I never paid much attention to nutrition in the past.  Like many from America, my diet was the Standard American Diet (SAD).  I ate pretty much what I wanted, much of it processed food.  Even though I was overweight, I've always been active in sports and outdoor pursuits like mountain biking, surfing, backpacking, etc. and considered myself to be in pretty good shape.

 

So, it was a real shock to go in for a checkup one day and find that my blood pressure was 180/130, and my fasting glucose was well over 100mg/dl, which meant I was pre-diabetic according to my doctor at the time!  He was very concerned and immediately put me on medications for both conditions and advised me to loose weight.

 

What he did not do was provide any advice or consul whatsoever on nutrition, or prescribe an actual diet!  As you might guess, even though I followed his advice, the conditions did not improve much. They stabilized, but they did not improve.  He told me that my condition could be kept under control through medications but that the meds would be required for life!

 

What was even more disturbing was what I learned by visiting the websites of the American Heart Association and the American Diabetes Association.  Both concurred with what he said.  As I began reading more about these conditions I found that most other people in this situation do not get better, and many get worse, much worse!

 

This was a pretty scary pill to swallow and I felt pretty depressed about it!  I began to do a lot of reading on the internet, and of course there was no lack of hope from those trying to make a buck, but gradually certain bits and pieces of information began to emerge that made a lot of sense, especially when I became more knowledgable about how the body really works, and how the type of food you eat effects it.

 

What I started to realize is that the TYPE of food you eat is the single most important key to your general health.  That's not to say that simply eating the right foods is going to cure or prevent these things, but eating the wrong foods is almost certainly guaranteed to create real problems in the long term.

 

To make a long (very long) story short, I changed my diet in some pretty simple ways.  I cut out as much processed sugar and salt from my diet as possible.  I cut down greatly on animal proteins, dairy products, and oils, and greatly increased my intake of  plant-based foods.

 

I'm not going to deny it was easy to do because it wasn't.  In fact, it was pretty horrible in the beginning, but gradually I acclimated, and after a while, I actually developed a distaste for the "bad stuff".  And, when I moved here to Chaing Mai, things got MUCH easier because of the number of restaurants (over 200 of them) that cater to just this type of diet!  Chiang Mai is simply a mecca for healthy eating if you embrace it.

 

For lack of a better term, eating a plant-based diet is also referred to as being a "Vegan".  While I'm not a Vegan in the strict sense of the word since I still eat some meat and dairy, I like to think of my self as a "Pagan"; partly Vegan and partly Paleo.  For those of you who live in Chiang Mai or near a good vegan restaurant, following a plant-based diet is easy and delicious!

 

And how did all of this affect my medical conditions?  Well, my blood pressure dropped back into the normal range within weeks of "going cold turkey" and so did my blood sugar!  I am not exaggerating...weeks, not months. 

 

Even when I quit all my meds, everything stayed normal.  Now I'm NOT saying this would be true for everyone, especially those with non-nutritional causes, but for me, this is what happened, and it made a big impression on me in relation to how important how WHAT you eat affects your health.

 

I should also note that I found myself a good doctor; a VERY good one here in Chiang Mai!  She is a fully credentialed MD with an excellent background in science-based nutrition, and unlike my GP's of the past, I know I can rely on her advice.  Next to what you put into your body, having a good general physician / family doctor is equally important to good health.

 

One final thing I want to add; when I decided to make a change in my diet, it was not a gradual thing.  I did it "cold-turkey".  That's why, when I say I saw fast changes in my blood pressure and blood sugar, I mean it (and these changes were confirmed by blood tests taken just before, and then after the water fast that initiated this diet change, and is described below)

 

The way I did it is definitely not for everybody, and I would not advise it at all to anyone who doesn't have a good doctor who advises you beforehand.

 

When I decided to change my diet, I preceded it with a water fast; a seven day water fast!  I had my reason for doing this and it had nothing to do with loosing weight or "detoxing" in the conventional sense most are familiar with.  There were several reason I did this, and the most important reason (autophagy), I'm not going to go into here even though it is an astounding thing!  I would like to discuss it though in future threads. 

 

The reason I did the fast, in connection with my desire to go plant-based, was that it simply gave my body a period of time to wean off my SAD diet.  It was like "spring housekeeping" if you will.  I thought it would make it easier when I started to eat a plant-based diet.  Actually, it did not make it easier.  I had cravings for all the bad things as progressed through those seven days like you would not believe!    I managed to break the fast properly by introducing solid foods slowly over a 2 day period, but my third day was a "cheat day" like you would not believe!  I ate a bunch of bad stuff, and felt like hell for it!  Still though, after all I had gone through, I was determined enough that on the 4th day after the fast, I started sticking to a plant-based diet and have not looked back since.

 

Anyway, sorry for the long post.  Writing it all out in black and white was as much for myself as for anyone else who might gain from it.  I hope it might have motivated at least one person to consider what I've said.  Thanks.

 

 

[anon467367354]

this is pretty much all you need to know. What is it that the people that live the longest eat.

https://youtu.be/0CdwWliv7Hg

[Kohsamida]

35 minutes ago, gr8fldanielle said:

this is pretty much all you need to know. What is it that the people that live the longest eat.

https://youtu.be/0CdwWliv7Hg

I like what Jeff Novick has to say and what he adds to the plant-based world, but with all due respect, I would not consider his videos to be all you need to know about good health through nutrition. 

 

If you really want a good starting source to understand what I'm talking about I would suggest something like the books by Dr. Michael Greger.  His book, "How Not To Die" is a landmark book when it comes to gaining a healthy lifestyle through plant-based nutrition.  It is not a diet book or a rigid plan.  What makes it stand out from many other books is that it is more about creating a sustainable, healthy lifestyle, and it is strictly science-based but written in a way that the ideas can easily be embraced by everyone.

 

https://www.amazon.com/How-Not-Die-Discover-Scientifically/dp/1250066115

 

[Antonymous]

Very good post.

 

I follow the same diet principles. Came to this after reading just about every scientific study out there, plus subscribing to a long list of nutritional guru newsletters ... and then altering my diet this way and that until I reached what seems to be ideal for me. This is backed up by daily blood pressure monitoring and other home based tests plus blood tests every six months where I have been able to monitor my progress over many years.

 

I am fitter and healthier today than I was 10 or 20 years ago, both in terms of vital signs and appearance and feeling of well being.

 

The simplest rules apply for me: plant based diet (no meat, dairy), no processed food or white flour, no sugar (I use stevia), very little oil (olive oil only), snacking on nuts (almonds, brazil, walnuts) and fresh fruits. Most of my food is either steamed or lightly boiled. I drink organic green tea all through the day. My water is ozonated at home before drinking. All veggies, although mainly organic and home grown, are freshly ozonated before cooking/eating also.

 

I don't drink alcohol or smoke. I don't take any pharmaceutical or recreational drugs.

 

And because of all of the above I rarely eat out or get invited to dinner parties!

 

But hey, I'm happy and contented, feel great and plan on sticking around.

 

Good luck to you on your diet adventure.

 

[Antonymous]

Oh yes, I forgot. I do regular water fasting too. I have been a proponent of fasting (juice fasting too) for about 25 years. It can be a life saver when used appropriately.

[TravelerEastWest]

A great topic - thank you for starting it.

 

I have not found a single restaurant in Chiang Mai yet that is plant based with no oil, no salt and no sugar.

 

So I basically eat at home with organic fruits and vegetables from my garden.

 

 

[Chrisfromoz]

Wow. I do admire your determination but I do so much eating and drinking and talking shit around the floor covered in all sorts of delicious food. I just want to ask are you happy...if so good on you. For me I will problem go out a bit earlier but with a big smile on my face. Cheers good thread

[Kohsamida]

45 minutes ago, TravelerEastWest said:

A great topic - thank you for starting it.

 

I have not found a single restaurant in Chiang Mai yet that is plant based with no oil, no salt and no sugar.

 

So I basically eat at home with organic fruits and vegetables from my garden.

 

 

Personally, speaking at first I tried to be strictly plant-based with absolutely no animal proteins, dairy, oil, salt, sugar, etc,  but it became obvious pretty quickly to me that it was not going to work that way if I wanted to enjoy what I was eating or have any sort of social life.  Fact is, I love to eat and I enjoy the social aspects of it as well.

 

I'm comfortable with following basic principals of a plant-based lifestyle with a little flexibility thrown in to meet an occasion.  I don't think you need to be 100% plant-based for it to still give you a healthy lifestyle.  My mantra is simply to never take anything to extremes.

 

In that light, I think there are plenty of great places here in Chiang Mai to eat out, and many of them will alter a recipe for you if you ask.

[Kohsamida]

41 minutes ago, Chrisfromoz said:

Wow. I do admire your determination but I do so much eating and drinking and talking shit around the floor covered in all sorts of delicious food. I just want to ask are you happy...if so good on you. For me I will problem go out a bit earlier but with a big smile on my face. Cheers good thread

Thanks; but I happen to feel the same way about food as you.  I LOVE eating and I greatly enjoy the social aspects of eating.  I always have.  The only difference now is a fundamental change in what I eat. 

 

Most people are pleasantly surprised when they find out just how tasty plant-based dishes can be if done properly.  You'd be surprised how similar a veggie-burger can taste to a real beef burger if it's done the right way, for instance.

 

Of course, I am not a strict Vegan.  I don't believe in extremes, and I don't think you need to be 100 % Vegan to enjoy its' benefits.  For anything to be sustainable in the long run, there has to be some flexibility.

 

If there was ever a place to find other like-minded people to "talk shit around a table covered in all sorts of delicious food", Chiang Mai is the place, with all the Vegans living here and all of the fine Vegan restaurants.   

 

And even if you don't live in Chiang Mai, the plant-based lifestyle is growing all around the world exponentially because it's not just a fad diet that's here today and gone tomorrow; it's the real deal.

 

Living longer by eating this way is not my motive.  I eat this way so that I can feel good, stay active, and enjoy life to its' fullest before that last day comes for me, and I expect to have a smile on my face as well ?

 

BTW, I like your forum name.  Cheers to you too!

 

[HeavyHands]

Fasting is one of the most under appreciated and easiest diet/health protocols you can use. Short (16 hours) &  longer extended fasts have many health benefits, it works for me. 

That and reduce amount of things eaten from a packet! Simple 55

[The Deerhunter]

41 minutes ago, HeavyHands said:

Fasting is one of the most under appreciated and easiest diet/health protocols you can use. Short (16 hours) &  longer extended fasts have many health benefits, it works for me. 

That and reduce amount of things eaten from a packet! Simple 55

Yes I totally agree.   I was interested to read brief reports on the recent studies of daily 16 hr fasts. This closly parallels my lifestyle most days in Thailand. With the heat in Thailand I frequently do not feel like eating an evening meal and often, around 4 to 6 days out of 7, I just do not eat after lunch which may be  between 1pm & 3pm.  As my next proper meal is not til 8.30  to 10.00 am next day, I am well into the 16 hours fast.  

This happened to me because I came here 15-20 +?? kg over weight and found the daily heat made me generally less hungry and particularly less hungry for a big evening meal of any sort.  As I was sort-of trying to lose some weight, I just thought "if I am not hungry, why not miss that evening meal. I might lose a bit of my overweight."    I  lost 14 kg and apart from holidays back home to temperate climates I have kept it up (down???) as long as I stay in Thailand and live on the farm.  I am absolutely NOT a vegetarian and at 90kg +/- 1 to 2 kg, I currently hold to 13 -15 kg lower than the  figure that was my norm for close to 10 years before I moved here 4.5 years ago.

 

Note that Monks more or less do the same in not starting a meal after 12 noon.    But many of them load up with sugary drinks  at all hours of the day to compensate.  Also, they cannot  really control their diet easily as they have to eat what people donate, not what they would necessarily prefer to eat.   Some monks with Diabetes, stomach ulcers or other medical conditions suffer poor health as their metabolism cannot adjust to / tolerate this religious regime.

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, Kohsamida said:

 I don't think you need to be 100% plant-based for it to still give you a healthy lifestyle. 

Indeed you do not. The so-called "Mediterrean Diet" is very healthy, people on it on avaerge live healthier, longer lives, but it is not vegan. It includes dairy products, fish and meat but in small quantities, especially meat-wise. Ditto diets in Japan. where there is a lot of longevity.

 

I would take pretty much all diet books with a grain of salt. In order to gain sales they have to have a gimmick or two and make expansive (i.e, exaggerated) claims. ("How Not to Die" as a title, for example). Because a straight forward, scientifically supported book on health diets would bore people since it would be a rehash of what they hear pretty much all the time, nothing :"sexy" about it (and you will still die eventually ?).

 

One sure sign of nonsense is when a book or speaker comes up with recommendations that would require a huge amount of effort, seeking out hard to find foods, buying all sorts of exotic foods etc etc. Healthy eating is nothing highly complex, in fact it is quite simple (though summoning up the will power may be hard.) Acacia berries are healthy yes but so are raspberries, blueberries, blackberries, mulberries. They just aren't exotic.

 

Also to keep in mind is the importance of permanent change and aiming for something less ambitious but more achievable may be better for you - the best diet, like the best exercise regimen, being the one you can stick to long term.

 

 

[Kohsamida]

13 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Indeed you do not. The so-called "Mediterrean Diet" is very healthy, people on it on avaerge live healthier, longer lives, but it is not vegan. It includes dairy products, fish and meat but in small quantities, especially meat-wise. Ditto diets in Japan. where there is a lot of longevity.

 

I would take pretty much all diet books with a grain of salt. In order to gain sales they have to have a gimmick or two and make expansive (i.e, exaggerated) claims. ("How Not to Die" as a title, for example). Because a straight forward, scientifically supported book on health diets would bore people since it would be a rehash of what they hear pretty much all the time, nothing :"sexy" about it (and you will still die eventually ?).

 

One sure sign of nonsense is when a book or speaker comes up with recommendations that would require a huge amount of effort, seeking out hard to find foods, buying all sorts of exotic foods etc etc. Healthy eating is nothing highly complex, in fact it is quite simple (though summoning up the will power may be hard.) Acacia berries are healthy yes but so are raspberries, blueberries, blackberries, mulberries. They just aren't exotic.

 

Also to keep in mind is the importance of permanent change and aiming for something less ambitious but more achievable may be better for you - the best diet, like the best exercise regimen, being the one you can stick to long term.

 

 

Agree completely but I hope you're not putting the book "How Not To Die" in that category.  Granted the title is designed to attract attention but IMHO it one of the best books on health I have ever read and the author is one of the most honest and transparent people you could imagine with sound science to back up his words.

 

What I like best about the book is that he never seems to try and sway you to a particular point of view on what he is discussing.  He present the facts clearly and concisely.  If there are two opposing views on a topic, he presents them both, and without bias.  He then leaves it to the reader to draw their own conclusions.

[dontoearth]

3 minutes ago, Kohsamida said:

Agree completely but I hope you're not putting the book "How Not To Die" in that category.  Granted the title is designed to attract attention but IMHO it one of the best books on health I have ever read and the author is one of the most honest and transparent people you could imagine with sound science to back up his words.

 

What I like best about the book is that he never seems to try and sway you to a particular point of view on what he is discussing.  He present the facts clearly and concisely.  If there are two opposing views on a topic, he presents them both, and without bias.  He then leaves it to the reader to draw their own conclusions.

     Dr. Greger runs a website with short informative videos based on science backed research evidence for eating, nutrition and health related information.  It is well worth a check in every week or two.

https://nutritionfacts.org/

[Lacessit]

I was quite surprised when my doctor in Australia informed me I was Vitamin B12 deficient. I don't eat much beef in Chiang Mai due to the poor quality. Pork, chicken and fish don't cut the mustard as far as B12 is concerned. We only get it from beef or B12 supplements, which I now take sporadically.

My son and daughter-in-law were vegans for quite some time. They now eat red meat, as they became anaemic after years of abstinence from meat.

IMHO the real diet villains are fat and sugar. There's a publication put out by the World Health Organisation called

" Food, Nutrition and Cancer". It's difficult to find any cancer which does not have fat listed as a contributing factor.

[Kohsamida]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

I was quite surprised when my doctor in Australia informed me I was Vitamin B12 deficient. I don't eat much beef in Chiang Mai due to the poor quality. Pork, chicken and fish don't cut the mustard as far as B12 is concerned. We only get it from beef or B12 supplements, which I now take sporadically.

My son and daughter-in-law were vegans for quite some time. They now eat red meat, as they became anaemic after years of abstinence from meat.

IMHO the real diet villains are fat and sugar. There's a publication put out by the World Health Organisation called

" Food, Nutrition and Cancer". It's difficult to find any cancer which does not have fat listed as a contributing factor.

B-12 is the only micro-nutrient lacking in a well-rounded plant-based diet.  Fortunately, a deficiency can easily be addressed with a good quality B-12 supplement (pill). 

 

While I agree with you that excessive fat and sugar seem to be linked with cancer, there is an increasing number of scientific studies that suggest a link between animal proteins and cancer, not to mention other diseases such as Alzheimer's disease and ALS (Lou Gehrig's disease) to name a couple.

 

Many people are concerned about getting adequate amounts of protein on a plant-based diet.  Fact is, the amount of protein needed for good nutrition has historically been grossly over-estimated.

 

A well-rounded plant based diet provides all the protein most people need, even vegan athletes such as cyclists and triathletes.  Any excess amount eaten will be stored as glucose and then ultimately fat since amino acids can not be stored by the body.  There are plenty of protein supplement makers that will argue this, but it's a scientific fact. So, simply put, excess protein will create the same degree of metabolic stress as excess fats and sugars.

[Destiny1990]

Thinking most of the guys here had beers for breakfast but seems they having a fasting instead..

[NancyL]

Many men as they age can become deficient in B vitamins.  And sadly, the symptoms can be mistaken for dementia.  It can be easily corrected with supplements.  If you look at the formulation of Centrum Silver for Men, you'll see that it's high in the B vitamins.  I give one to Hubby every morning.  Unfortunately, Centrum Silver for Men and the companion version for Women aren't available in Thailand, just regular Centrum Silver, so I have our his-and-hers vitamins shipped in from the U.S.

[Kohsamida]

1 hour ago, NancyL said:

...Unfortunately, Centrum Silver for Men and the companion version for Women aren't available in Thailand, just regular Centrum Silver, so I have our his-and-hers vitamins shipped in from the U.S....

Actually, Centrum Silver 50+ is available in Chiang Mai at Peera Pharmacy.  IMO, they are the best pharmacy in town for farangs since the owner stocks many American brands and is fluent in English, friendly, and quite knowledgeable, and her prices are reasonable.

 

She also stocks high-quality B-12 capsules (500 mcg), and injectable B-12 (methycobal).

 

Peera Pharmacy
Si Phum, Mueang Chiang Mai District, Chiang Mai 50100
095 456 5365
https://goo.gl/maps/YcHuWhYZ98H2

[Bonobojt]

nice thread to see, I tried the vegan diet a couple of years ago after seeing a slaughterhouse video, it made me so angry how animals are abused, tortured and killed in those hell hole factory farms, it only lasted a year though as I was traveling a lot and its hard to be 100% vegan when your traveling. I learned a lot about nutrition while I was vegan, what's good and what's bad, now I eat mostly plant based, and will eat eggs and meat sometimes but its rare, very rarely eat dairy products.

 

there's a lot of interesting plant based doctor's that are educating people about how important nutrition is for preventing disease -  Dr Micheal Greger, Dr John Mcdougall, Dr Neal bernard, some names that come to mind.

 

if your interested in the ethical moral side of veganism then check out Gary Yourosky - http://adaptt.org

 

there is also a man called Dan Buettner, who is the guy who studied 'the blue zones',  places in the world where people live longer and healthier than anywhere else on earth, and their diets were mostly around 90 to 95% plant based.

 

 

 

  

[NancyL]

6 hours ago, Kohsamida said:

Actually, Centrum Silver 50+ is available in Chiang Mai at Peera Pharmacy.  IMO, they are the best pharmacy in town for farangs since the owner stocks many American brands and is fluent in English, friendly, and quite knowledgeable, and her prices are reasonable.

 

She also stocks high-quality B-12 capsules (500 mcg), and injectable B-12 (methycobal).

 

Peera Pharmacy
Si Phum, Mueang Chiang Mai District, Chiang Mai 50100
095 456 5365
https://goo.gl/maps/YcHuWhYZ98H2

Right, she has the gender-neutral Centrum Silver, but not the specific formula for men, which is the label I posted, or the one for women, which is high in calcium.  When I run out of the men's or women's formula that I have shipped from the U.S., I use the gender-neutral version from Peera with an extra B-12 capsule for Hubby and calcium tablet for me.

[Dionigi]

There is very little science based investigation into fasting and what there is has generally been carried out on animals. The results from these tests have been twisted and applied to humans when this does not always work the same. I have used fasting on a 24 hr on 24 hour off for three days fasting a week. I tried it for four weeks checking and graphing my weight each day. In the first week lost 1kg second week lost 1 kg. third week 1/2 kg and fourth week 1/2kg. I have stopped fasting for one week and am going to start again to see the weight loss . It appears that my body got used to the fasting so I am hoping that the one week layoff will start me at square one again. By the way my weight did not increase at all the week of eating normally. What I did find was that my blood pressure increased on fast days whether this was due to my medication working through my body faster or the fast I do not know. The 1:1 fasting does not seem to reduce my blood pressure.

 

A good source for info on medical testing of diets and fasting is pubmed who list the results of scientific testing although not all testing is double blinded and the results still have to be analysed.

[dontoearth]

1 hour ago, Dionigi said:

There is very little science based investigation into fasting and what there is has generally been carried out on animals. The results from these tests have been twisted and applied to humans when this does not always work the same. I have used fasting on a 24 hr on 24 hour off for three days fasting a week. I tried it for four weeks checking and graphing my weight each day. In the first week lost 1kg second week lost 1 kg. third week 1/2 kg and fourth week 1/2kg. I have stopped fasting for one week and am going to start again to see the weight loss . It appears that my body got used to the fasting so I am hoping that the one week layoff will start me at square one again. By the way my weight did not increase at all the week of eating normally. What I did find was that my blood pressure increased on fast days whether this was due to my medication working through my body faster or the fast I do not know. The 1:1 fasting does not seem to reduce my blood pressure.

 

A good source for info on medical testing of diets and fasting is pubmed who list the results of scientific testing although not all testing is double blinded and the results still have to be analysed.

      Jason Fong has a lot of data on fasting as he is a doctor at Toronto General Hospital.  When he proposed fasting to stop Type II diabetes in patients that were so ill they were having kidney failure the hospital demanded that he hospitalize the patients for safety reasons.  So he has blood panels urine samples daily chart visits.  It is in his book.

        It sounds like you are doing something close to the Every other day diet plan.  The inventor of the every other day diet plan is in the middle of a 3 year National Science Foundation Study on the technique so lots of good science coming.   Krista Varady, Ph.D. and Bill Gottlieb, CHC  detail in their book that this is a revolutionary, science-proven, easy-to-follow diet.

        All of this research is very recent and the investigators have done presentations lots of good youtube presentations presented before professional societies and books but not much in the big science journals.  There is quite a controversy now that the big medical journals and health journals are really schills for big pharma and don't want lifestyle publications unless the results are very poor.  Many refuse vitamins and diet research entirely.

         I did read Fong's book.  I didn't read Varady's book.  And of course there is Michael Mosley of the 5-2 with books and presentations who is a doctor and medical researcher for the BBC.

[Tongjaw]

Thank you for starting this excellent thread, so many informative comments too. I did try the vegan diet but found it too difficult to stick to as I travel overseas a lot for work. We do however have more of a vegetarian style diet but do have the odd fish, pork and eggs at times. We live around the Udon Thani and Khon Kaen area. I found one vegetarian restaurant in Khon Kaen which we enjoy when in the city. My wife prefers to cook at home as we grow most of our veggies there. We have our own chickens so we know our eggs are fresh. We excerise 5 times a week, jogging, walking and gym which helps us lead a healthy lifestyle too. 

If anyone knows of any vegetarian, vegan restaurants in Udon Thani or Khon Kaen I would appreciate if they could share the locations. 

[Addonvalue]

Great thread! Yes, I have been doing intermittent fasting -- with last meal at 7pm and nothing but a 'rainbow' smoothie at around 11am -- full of fruits/vege/butterflypea flowers and hibiscus from garden included plus homemade yogurt plus some nootropic powders mixed in and coconut oil . So that's a hefty and pretty substantial brunch. Nothing else but water kefirs and teas (moringa, nootropic/brainfood teas), nuts, fruits. Then a meal with the family -- not vegan.   Important point too for me in talking about diets is conscience -- have a clear conscience about what you do. Condemnation or a seared conscience, feeling guilty or bad about eating something can pretty much make your food toxic as the neurotransmitters send out negative vibes instead of the dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin - good vibes to enrich your food experience. Like if you think eating non-organic or meats or anything, and have a bad conscience about it, then don't eat it -- I can't explain it all here but there is a connection between the heart/mind and the food we eat - which can truly enrich us or be toxic.  Anyway -- there's scientific stuff out there that connects the heart-brain-gutbrain-head brain..etc.  As for autophagy -- it's great -- WORKing out during part of the intermittent fasting or any fasting is really a powerboost cos since the body is not receiving any input and nothing new to burn as fuel, it is forced to go into the deeper recesses of the body -- to the stored fuel or excess/waste -- to burn as the fuel you need as you work out..  One of the best ways to really get a CLEAN,Lean, efficiently functioning body!    Here's to an Optimized Life!  Thanks for all the input here, ppl! 

 

[Addonvalue]

Just a question about Ozonated water -- can't find the post now -- but can someone fill me in on this -- how do you ozonate your water? Special equipment? 

 

[Dionigi]

26 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

      Jason Fong has a lot of data on fasting as he is a doctor at Toronto General Hospital.  When he proposed fasting to stop Type II diabetes in patients that were so ill they were having kidney failure the hospital demanded that he hospitalize the patients for safety reasons.  So he has blood panels urine samples daily chart visits.  It is in his book.

        It sounds like you are doing something close to the Every other day diet plan.  The inventor of the every other day diet plan is in the middle of a 3 year National Science Foundation Study on the technique so lots of good science coming.   Krista Varady, Ph.D. and Bill Gottlieb, CHC  detail in their book that this is a revolutionary, science-proven, easy-to-follow diet.

        All of this research is very recent and the investigators have done presentations lots of good youtube presentations presented before professional societies and books but not much in the big science journals.  There is quite a controversy now that the big medical journals and health journals are really schills for big pharma and don't want lifestyle publications unless the results are very poor.  Many refuse vitamins and diet research entirely.

         I did read Fong's book.  I didn't read Varady's book.  And of course there is Michael Mosley of the 5-2 with books and presentations who is a doctor and medical researcher for the BBC.

Most doctors are not scientists and do not stick to double blind testing or reading scientific reports correctly and as they say anecdotes are not evidence. Take doctor Oz as a good example or doctor Atkins.

The diet plan I used suited my life style as I go out three days a week drinking and did not want to fast on those days and I decided two days together, at weekends, would be too much to handle straight away.

I am a lifelong vegetarian and have never eaten meat but eat eggs milk and cheese. Due to this I have never been in the habit of eating out as vegetarian food was nonexistent for many years and you get sick of "we can do you a salad deary". most of my food is home cooked with fresh ingredients, very little processed foods but you still have to fight heredity. By the way Thailand is generally not vegetarian friendly and I cannot stand food made to look like, or taste like meat as I do not want meat. I can understand someone who gives up meat eating such things as they may crave the taste and texture

[dontoearth]

2 minutes ago, Dionigi said:

Most doctors are not scientists and do not stick to double blind testing or reading scientific reports correctly and as they say anecdotes are not evidence. Take doctor Oz as a good example or doctor Atkins.

The diet plan I used suited my life style as I go out three days a week drinking and did not want to fast on those days and I decided two days together, at weekends, would be too much to handle straight away.

I am a lifelong vegetarian and have never eaten meat but eat eggs milk and cheese. Due to this I have never been in the habit of eating out as vegetarian food was nonexistent for many years and you get sick of "we can do you a salad deary". most of my food is home cooked with fresh ingredients, very little processed foods but you still have to fight heredity. By the way Thailand is generally not vegetarian friendly and I cannot stand food made to look like, or taste like meat as I do not want meat. I can understand someone who gives up meat eating such things as they may crave the taste and texture

     You don't always need double blind testing.   The cigarette companies claim it is necessary as they find no evidence convincing that cigarette smoking causes lung cancer.  There is just no way to double blind testing on fasting what do you give the other group invisible food?  

       I agree most doctors are not up on current research and have little desire to read it understand it or interrupt it.  Oz was forced to tell a govt. panel his show is nothing but entertainment and it is not a medical show.  Atkins did most of his work before computers allowed such a good way to organize and collect data on which you can conduct research.  There is plenty today on Atkins that would qualify as research.  

       I like the vegetarian life style more than vegan.  There is plenty of research on it from the Seventh Adventist medical records which are now being turned into studies. I did see a stat expert on youtube might have been a tedx talk explain that heredity causes less than 2% of disease.  He felt doctors used it to get more business up with testing and prescription writing.  

        I see more options every year I am visiting Thailand for vegan and vegetarian food.  I like the meat substitutes as I was brought on a farm country diet of meat at every meal.  I know now how that contributes to the high cancer rate in my family.  Especially as meat has been totally poisoned by factory farming methods.

[Antonymous]

1 hour ago, Addonvalue said:

Just a question about Ozonated water -- can't find the post now -- but can someone fill me in on this -- how do you ozonate your water? Special equipment? 

 

You have to distinguish between three types of ozone generator:

 

1. For medical use. This is calibrated so that you can release the required amount of ozone concentration and flow. Have to buy an oxygen tank separately. They are expensive. Sales banned in the USA, but can still buy them in Canada, where I bought mine from. Used extensively in German hospitals. Long story behind ozone therapy, which you can google. Extremely efficacious.

 

2. For water sterilization. This type is inexpensive, does not require an oxygen tank and is not suitable for medical use because you cannot regulate the flow. I use this one, available on Lazada at under 3,000 baht:

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/n1668-i3809299-s4680831.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.1.17d7fb56pccUnv&search=1

 

About this machine....Used in water:

Kills 99.99% of all surface bacteria, virus, fungi/mold and parasites on vegetables, fruit and other foods.

Sterilize tap water to be used for drinking water

Disinfect baby bottles, toys etc.

Agriculture chemical detoxification by reducing pesticide/fungicide residue on fruit and vegetables by oxidizing those chemicals into harmless new compounds.

Laboratory test shows up to 96% of harmful chemicals on surface of fruits and vegetables removed within 15-20 minutes.

Fruit and vegetables stays fresh longer in the refrigerator after treatment with ozone.

 

3. Air purifiers. Useless for water sterilisation.