Put your cards on the table, EU makes last Brexit call to Britain

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, blazes said:

 

You mean, just like in the America of not just Trump but all the presidents who came before him?  For example, the Great Crisis of 2008/9 brought misery to many, but untold wealth for most of Wall Street. The environmental degradation has been going on for decades and the "slavery" you refer to has crept up on all those drones now "working" for Amazon.

 

And all through these last five decades, the US has encouraged right-wing coups and fascist oppression in its own backyard...

 

In fact, Brexit has not (yet?) produced the oppression everywhere to be seen in America.

What???

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, The Renegade said:

Brilliant answer, for someone who cannot read or comprehend English. I asked you 5 questions

 

Still waiting ?

 

And if you cannot answer, do not attempt a strawman response.

No body has suggested that the referendum was right wing.

 

However the populists who voted for this moronic move have allowed themselves to be hijacked by the Tory right wing.

 

Got it?

 

The majority who voted Brexit will not like what they will be served by the Cons.

 

 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

12 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Read my post one more time. If you still don't understand what's happening I will explain it to you.

All you need to explain to me, is how a referendum, or the result of a referendum, can be in anyway construed as a coup. All else is crystal clear to me, and needs no further explanatory words from your good self.

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

No body has suggested that the referendum was right wing.

 

However the populists who voted for this moronic move have allowed themselves to be hijacked by the Tory right wing.

 

Got it?

 

The majority who voted Brexit will not like what they will be served by the Cons.

 

 

This is just another opportunistic, non factual, made up excuse for yet another roadblock.

 

You should start enjoying your holiday... obviously you can't be at the moment.

 

 

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

Wait a minute, did we have a referendum or a right wing coup as suggested by chompa, if I may quote him.

"I don’t regard rightwing coups a laughing matter."

Don't have too many brandys with your tapas, it is beginning to show.

May I suggest a bottle (or two) of Viña Tondonia Blanco Reserva, 2003.

[aright]

28 minutes ago, Grouse said:

The majority who voted Brexit will not like what they will be served by the Cons.

 

 

Deuce! Increasingly, it would appear the people in the EU believe they are ill served by the axis of the unwilling, as well. I would prefer to take my chances with the Cons. I can vote them out!

[nontabury]

11 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Of course it must be saved at all costs. It represent cohesion and stability. Without wishing to sound dismissive, it is clear that the majority of people in any democracy are not sufficiently politically engaged to be able to make a reasonable and informed decision about complex matters such as Brexit. That is why we have corrupt, shadowy organisations willing to pump masses of dirty money into the generation of fake news via fake organisations to sway the gullible public with populist sentiment. Which is why we have Trump in the White House and Brexit on our table - the public has been seduced into believing that such unthinkables might actually present the the answers to our problems.

 

Cannot agree with you more. “Yes” there has been shodowowy organizations and people trying to override the democratic decision of the British people.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

You said in response to a discussion about Brexit “I don’t regard rightwing coups a laughing matter”

 

You have been understandably backtracking since then; first you said “no, it has been turned into a rightwing coup”  ….. now you are saying “it has been used as the pretext of a coup” and without any sense of irony, you still seem to think you understand what “coup” means

My statement related specifically to the result of the referendum ‘the vote to leave the EU’.

The vote to leave the EU is a result, it happened it is passed tense.

 

My statement in response to Vogie’s question: 

So in your eyes a majority vote to leave the EU is a right wing coup. Am I hearing this correctly? 

Was

 

”No. 

 

It it has been turned into a rightwing coup.” ( my reasoning and example followed).

 

When you yourself struggled to understand what I had said I rephrased my answer for you.

 

“I have explained how I believe the referendum has been used as the pretext of a coup, a point others agree with but you seem unable to even grasp, despite it having been explained to you!”

 

I have not stated the vote to leave the EU was a coup, (I explicitly stated it was not).

 

I have stated it has been turned into a coup ( giving examples and my reasoning), I have stated it has been used as the pretext of a coup.

 

I have not at any point back tracked.

 

Rather than challenge the evidence that the government is in fact using the referendum result to embark on a a rightwing coup, you set about deconstructing my posts to try to prove your own unfounded opinions about what I said.

 

Worker’s rights, consumer’s rights, human rights, environmental protection laws. These are what the Tories are focussed on removing.

 

Right wing coup!

[Chomper Higgot]

34 minutes ago, vogie said:

Wait a minute, did we have a referendum or a right wing coup as suggested by chompa, if I may quote him.

"I don’t regard rightwing coups a laughing matter."

Don't have too many brandys with your tapas, it is beginning to show.

You too.

 

You asked me if I considered the vote to leave the EU a right wing coup.

 

In my answer to your question I explicitly said ‘no’ ( refer post #109).

 

I’m quite sure you can discuss issues without deliberately misrepresenting the statements others have made.

 

 You should give it a try.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

My statement related specifically to the result of the referendum ‘the vote to leave the EU’.

The vote to leave the EU is a result, it happened it is passed tense.

 

My statement in response to Vogie’s question: 

So in your eyes a majority vote to leave the EU is a right wing coup. Am I hearing this correctly? 

Was

 

”No. 

 

It it has been turned into a rightwing coup.” ( my reasoning and example followed).

 

When you yourself struggled to understand what I had said I rephrased my answer for you.

 

“I have explained how I believe the referendum has been used as the pretext of a coup, a point others agree with but you seem unable to even grasp, despite it having been explained to you!”

 

I have not stated the vote to leave the EU was a coup, (I explicitly stated it was not).

 

I have stated it has been turned into a coup ( giving examples and my reasoning), I have stated it has been used as the pretext of a coup.

 

I have not at any point back tracked.

 

Rather than challenge the evidence that the government is in fact using the referendum result to embark on a a rightwing coup, you set about deconstructing my posts to try to prove your own unfounded opinions about what I said.

 

Worker’s rights, consumer’s rights, human rights, environmental protection laws. These are what the Tories are focussed on removing.

 

Right wing coup!

You said in a direct response to a discussion about Brexit “I don’t regard rightwing coups a laughing matter"

 

You have since then, steadfastly refused to tell us what rightwing coup you were referring to, if it was not Brexit. So please tell us.

 

You have, and you continue, to backtrack to the point where you are denying you actually said it.

 

Time to put the shovel down, the hole's big enough already

[Eloquent pilgrim]

9 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You too.

 

You asked me if I considered the vote to leave the EU a right wing coup.

 

In my answer to your question I explicitly said ‘no’ ( refer post #109).

 

I’m quite sure you can discuss issues without deliberately misrepresenting the statements others have made.

 

 You should give it a try.

 

You should try to back up what you have said, rather than accuse others of misrepresenting statements that you have made. Give it a try, rather than blaming others for what you have said, you might earn some respect

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, Eloquent pilgrim said:

You said in a direct response to a discussion about Brexit “I don’t regard rightwing coups a laughing matter"

 

You have since then, steadfastly refused to tell us what rightwing coup you were referring to, if it was not Brexit. So please tell us.

 

You have, and you continue, to backtrack to the point where you are denying you actually said it.

 

Time to put the shovel down, the hole's big enough already

Yep the whole Brexit process (that which occurs after the referendum) has been turned into a right wing coup.

 

Another example of which is the government’s repeated attempts to bypass parliament and establish rule by executive - defeated by the House of Lords and a court case brought by a group which in some sick irony are referred to as ‘enemies of the people.

 

Away with you and your accusations of  me backtracking.

 

I have done no such thing.

 

Spend less time making false accusations against me and go find out what the Tory Government are upto.

 

So late in the day and still no agreement between the PM and her cabinet on what the UK wants from the Brexit negotiations.

 

But a lot of agreement in removing people’s rights.

 

Rightwing coup!

[vogie]

10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You too.

 

You asked me if I considered the vote to leave the EU a right wing coup.

 

In my answer to your question I explicitly said ‘no’ ( refer post #109).

 

I’m quite sure you can discuss issues without deliberately misrepresenting the statements others have made.

 

 You should give it a try.

Oh dear, you have dug a hole so deep you can't get out.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

You should try to back up what you have said, rather than accuse others of misrepresenting statements that you have made. Give it a try, rather than blaming others for what you have said, you might earn some respect

I have backed it up.

 

There are clear references to my earlier posts, quotations included.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

Oh dear, you have dug a hole so deep you can't get out.

No, I stand by everything I have said.

 

And unlike yourself I have not chosen to misrepresent what others have said.

 

I gave you an explanation at #109, you can’t ‘disappear’ it.

 

So please don’t now continue to misrepresent my statements.

 

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

All you need to explain to me, is how a referendum, or the result of a referendum, can be in anyway construed as a coup. All else is crystal clear to me, and needs no further explanatory words from your good self.

It wasn't; the coup followed. The perfectly reasonable if unwise move by the "not doing really well" folk has been hijacked by Tory right wing bastards. 

[Chomper Higgot]

Getting back to topic:

 

How long is it since the referendum?

 

And yet PM Theresa May admits she’s got nothing to bring to the negotiating table - she hasn’t yet (at this late hour) got agreement between her own cabinet members.

 

What an utter shambles!

 

[edit] She says she might have something in a couple of weeks.

 

Is she going to let the British parliment scrutinize what ever she thinks she has or is this another example of ‘Government by executive order’?

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

No, I stand by everything I have said.

 

And unlike yourself I have not chosen to misrepresent what others have said.

 

I gave you an explanation at #109, you can’t ‘disappear’ it.

 

So please don’t now continue to misrepresent my statements.

 

Misrepresent your statements, we did not have a right wing coup, do you know how rediculous that sounds. Can I just repeat, we did not have a right wing coup. We had a democratic vote.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

This is just another opportunistic, non factual, made up excuse for yet another roadblock.

 

You should start enjoying your holiday... obviously you can't be at the moment.

 

 

Thank you! Spain is cooler than London!

[Chomper Higgot]

10 minutes ago, vogie said:

Misrepresent your statements, we did not have a right wing coup, do you know how rediculous that sounds. Can I just repeat, we did not have a right wing coup. We had a democratic vote.

Yes democratic vote, the result used as the pretext of a rightwing coup (which is now underway).

 

refer list of rights etc now under threat, and multiple attempts to establish Government by Executive order. (#109 might help).

 

 

[edit] I accept you and I will not agree on this, so have a go at #158 instead.

[bristolboy]

56 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You too.

 

You asked me if I considered the vote to leave the EU a right wing coup.

 

In my answer to your question I explicitly said ‘no’ ( refer post #109).

 

I’m quite sure you can discuss issues without deliberately misrepresenting the statements others have made.

 

 You should give it a try.

I cannot believe thatt Vogie would deliberately misrepresent what you wrote. And now that you have explained what you wrote so clearly  I am sure he will honorably acknowledge his error

 

34 minutes ago, vogie said:

Misrepresent your statements, we did not have a right wing coup, do you know how rediculous that sounds. Can I just repeat, we did not have a right wing coup. We had a democratic vote.

I guess not.

[dunroaming]

See the bickering party is in full flow as usual.

 

Has it occurred to any of you that all the talk of "we want this" and "we want that" is all terribly hollow given the position the UK is in?  Theresa May isn't actually delivering any sort of Brexit at all.  She has failed to move it forward in any meaningful  way and all she has agreed to so far are concessions.   Johnson doesn't want to step up and nor does the other whinger Rees Mogg.  So it has to be left to May to get whatever deal she can or no deal at all.

 

So by all means carry on saying what you all want from Brexit but don't expect to get it because it is highly unlikely that you will.

[aright]

38 minutes ago, Grouse said:

It wasn't; the coup followed. The perfectly reasonable if unwise move by the "not doing really well" folk has been hijacked by Tory right wing bastards. 

I disagree. There are only a few Tory rwb's

The chief vehicle of treason is the civil service especially the Cabinet Office, and virtually all of the Treasury including it's political head...…… a Mr Hammond.

 

 

[anon537687643]

Who chooses the threads on this site! What about a thread on how the EU is threatening Uk by not sharing security data! Get your EU propagandist Junk From The Nation and TV

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

[vogie]

47 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Yes democratic vote, the result used as the pretext of a rightwing coup (which is now underway).

 

refer list of rights etc now under threat, and multiple attempts to establish Government by Executive order. (#109 might help).

 

 

[edit] I accept you and I will not agree on this, so have a go at #158 instead.

The ring leader of the EU referendum coup is finally exposed. ???

 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, markaoffy said:

Who chooses the threads on this site! What about a thread on how the EU is threatening Uk by not sharing security data! Get your EU propagandist Junk From The Nation and TV

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

The EU is sharing security data.

 

They have said they will not continue to do so if the UK removes itself from European Human Rights Conventions.

 

1. The European Human Rights Conversation is nothing to do with the EU (so why is the UK proposing leaving the convention?).

 

2. The European nations bound by the convention cannot, under the convention, participate or condone the UK’s behaviour with respect to kidnap, torture and ‘secret rendition’ of terrorist suspects (refer my earlier post at #3).

 

The Brexit referendum gave no mandate to leave the European Human Rights Convention, it should never have been raised by Thersa May in the context of Brexit.

 

This is is absolutely not a matter of the EU threatening the UK, it is purely a matter of Theresa May making very unwise statements without thinking them through.

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, vogie said:

The ring leader of the EU referendum coup is finally exposed. ???

 

Oh that’s where he is.

 

He’s been AWOL since just before the Heathrow runway 3 vote. 

 

Apparently he has an appointment with the tracks of a large bulldozer.

[Retiredandhappyhere]

16 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

She intends to issue a 'white paper' now? Years after the vote? Are you kidding me?

 

Respectfully, a 'white paper' is a valuable document at the beginning of a process; issuing a 'white paper' at this juncture is simply a method of saying that "we do not have a clue what we are doing, and we are flailing around without purpose".

 

I am sure that many will object forcefully, but I would return to a recommendation I made many months ago; Britain, swallow your pride and put off "Brexit" for a generation. As an outsider looking on, it is crystal clear that the UK does not know what it is doing or have a viable plan, that the UK has no internal consensus on the future whatsoever, and that to make a deal on the most significant policy shift in several generations under these conditions is madness.

 

Stop this nonsense before you do further self-harm.

 

If the desire to leave the EU is still prevalent in 15-20 years, by all means choose 'Brexit". To do so now, under these circumstances, is not a wise policy.

 

The desire to leave the Eu has been prevalent for the past 15-20 years but the British people were never given the opportunity to choose until the Brexit vote.  We originally were happy to be part of the "common market" but never wanted to be part of an eventual "United States of Europe", which is the stated dream of certain EU leaders.

[aright]

17 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The EU is sharing security data.

 

They have said they will not continue to do so if the UK removes itself from European Human Rights Conventions.

 

1. The European Human Rights Conversation is nothing to do with the EU (so why is the UK proposing leaving the convention?).

 

2. The European nations bound by the convention cannot, under the convention, participate or condone the UK’s behaviour with respect to kidnap, torture and ‘secret rendition’ of terrorist suspects (refer my earlier post at #3).

 

The Brexit referendum gave no mandate to leave the European Human Rights Convention, it should never have been raised by Thersa May in the context of Brexit.

 

This is is absolutely not a matter of the EU threatening the UK, it is purely a matter of Theresa May making very unwise statements without thinking them through.

She has no plans to ignore human rights. It's simple she wants, the European Human rights Convention with a few modifications to be written into UK law. She said she was going to do this in 2016, after departure from the EU. I agree with her ….I would prefer to have this as a Convention designed specifically for the UK not the current all encompassing, one size fits all, document.

[Retiredandhappyhere]

48 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

See the bickering party is in full flow as usual.

 

Has it occurred to any of you that all the talk of "we want this" and "we want that" is all terribly hollow given the position the UK is in?  Theresa May isn't actually delivering any sort of Brexit at all.  She has failed to move it forward in any meaningful  way and all she has agreed to so far are concessions.   Johnson doesn't want to step up and nor does the other whinger Rees Mogg.  So it has to be left to May to get whatever deal she can or no deal at all.

 

So by all means carry on saying what you all want from Brexit but don't expect to get it because it is highly unlikely that you will.

What we will end up with is a compromise deal in which neither party gets exactly what it wants but nevertheless one which does the least harm to all parties, simply because that is in the best interests of all 28 countries. 

 

The advantage to Britain will ultimately be freedom from Brussels, which is what the Brexit supporters wanted,  and the opportunity to do trade deals on its own with other countries outside the EU..  No-one is suggesting that there will be immediate  financial benefits, but many  posters on here fail to understand that not everything is about money.  It may surprise those posters to learn that many people voted for Brexit, including some ex-pats, even though realising that there could be some initial disadvantages and financial costs to them personally.