Denied at DMK because too many visas on arrival

[freddel08]

Hi there,

 

I'm staying in for 18 months with only visas on arrival+extensions doing visa run away every two months.

 

I'm financial analyst and manage for my own saving. Since I don't any commercial activities in Thailand and that I'm 40 years old the touristic visa fit my particular situation. I knew that I could apply for elite visa but I'm not sure that i will stay 5 years in this country.

 

Last week, I did a visa runaway to Penang in Malaysia and when I came back via DMK the immigration officer told me that "you have too many touristic visas you should come back with at least non immigrant B visa" . I've tried to explain that I didn't work in Thailand but it seems that they didn't understand or didn't want to understand that I was living on my saving.

 

They also asked me "show me pocket money": hopefully I had 600 euros and 4000THB cash on me and I also showed them my Thai bank card (by the way they have noted my bank account numbers.. ? On the paper titled "Notification to control Prohibited Person" they have written in Thai denied because "he doesn't have money" . Which is not true since I showed them that i had cash with me

 

Then I've spent 18 hours in deportation room with 20 gentlemen. The next day I was escorted by two agents to the back of the plane. When we landed in Penang the staff took me to the Malaysian border where they gave me back my passport. Surprisingly, the Malaysian immigration was quite friendship and they told me "we are sorry but it happens every days since a few months".

 

In Penang I've applied for tourist visa that I received the next with the mention written in red:

1. "EMPLOYMENT PROHIBITED"

2. "The holder of this passport travels to Thailand under a tourist visa several times which may result in refusal of visa in the future"

 

Now with those remarks I don't want to take the risk to be denied a second time... this experience was both annoying and humiliating. I understand that I've used too many visa on arrival but I think they could warn me before to arrive that point.

 

Now what would be the solution for me to recover safely all my belonging, my car and pay my bills in Bangkok?

 

1. Should I order a new passport? Would it show up in their system that I was denied?

 

2. Or should I try to use my current visa tourist going through a land border?

 

Thank you for your help

 

Cheers

Fred

[davehowden]

Fred, you go to ask yourself what is so magical about Thailand when there are many other Asian countries ?

[Briggsy]

Getting a new passport would definitely be helpful. Many on here say it won't help because the officers can see on the computer your history. But it will help in getting a tourist visa in the region and my experience is that officers flick through the passport to see your previous entries.

 

Get a tourist visa from Savannakhet or your home country (where is your home country?).

 

Consider flying into Malaysia or Laos from your home country and then using a land border to enter Thailand. Carry at least the cash equivalent of 20,000 Baht and a return ticket to your home country within 60 days.

 

It is interesting to note that the vast majority of these stories involve people flying in from nearby Asian countries. I don't recall somebody being sent back to a European destination but I am sure there have been.

[mekko]

18 hours is a long wait. Was there any choice in when/where you'd return to? Presuming it was AA, I'd sure as hell opt for one of the hourly KL flights than wait around for the AirAsia flight to Penang, as I think it's returned to same country not same destination? were you charged for the flight? did you have access to your phone to lookup flights? 

 

You could fly into Chiang Mai, Hat Yai or even Phuket next time, or use a land border. 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2018 by mekko

[buick]

i would use the current tourist visa to enter via a land border.  then get a new passport.  then use tourist visas on all future entries.  immigration flags people with too many visa exempt entries (6 is the 'too many' mark).  you should try to spend some time outside the country btwn entries so authorities are not suspicious of you working here.

 

i spent approx 8 months a year in thailand for 10 years, starting when i was 40.  i turned 50 last year and got the non imm O visa/retirement extension.  it is harder to do now.  if you really want to stay in thailand long term, the thai elite visa is the best method.

[darrendsd]

33 minutes ago, freddel08 said:

1. "EMPLOYMENT PROHIBITED"

2. "The holder of this passport travels to Thailand under a tourist visa several times which may result in refusal of visa in the future"

1 is stamped on all Tourist Visas and nothing to worry about

 

2 means you will not get another TV from that Embassy and could struggle to get another from some other Embassy's in the region

 

 

33 minutes ago, freddel08 said:

1. Should I order a new passport? Would it show up in their system that I was denied?

It will help you in getting more TV's in the future but your denial will still show up on the Immigration system, records are not wiped just because you have a new PP

 

 

Edited July 3, 2018 by darrendsd

[freddel08]

6 minutes ago, mekko said:

18 hours is a long wait. Was there any choice in when/where you'd return to? Presuming it was AA, I'd sure as hell opt for one of the hourly KL flights than wait around for the AirAsia flight to Penang, as I think it's returned to same country not same destination? were you charged for the flight? did you have access to your phone to lookup flights? 

 

You could fly into Chiang Mai, Hat Yai or even Phuket next time, or use a land border. 

 

 

No apparently you have to fly back from where you came from, which was in my case Penang and the next fly was the next day. Also, I had a business man from Malaysia that was denied from the same flight (as well for too many tourist visas), he wasn't allowed to fly earlier via Kuala Lumpur.

 

And yes you have to book yourself for the flight.

 

 

[darrendsd]

2 minutes ago, buick said:

you should try to spend some time outside the country btwn entries so authorities are not suspicious of you working here.

This is not required as long as he gets all his TV's from Laos and uses a land border to cross back into Thailand, getting TV's from Vientiane and crossing through the Nong Khai border is the best option for this, 3-5 TV's can be obtained from Vientiane (usually 4) before he gets the "red stamp" after that it has been said that Savanakhet will still issue TV's

 

People are proving to Immigration at the Airport that they are not working here but are still being denied, it seems once their mind is made up that is it no matter what you show them

[poanoi]

what i did was to go live in cambodia until i finally turned 50,

but i dont recommend cambodia, tis a shithole with nuffin innit.

if you are somewhat fit, go live in caribbean,

many islands there belongs to holland/France and thus EU,

so theres zero visa hassle but still tropical beaches

[freddel08]

12 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

People are proving to Immigration at the Airport that they are not working here but are still being denied, it seems once their mind is made up that is it no matter what you show them

Yes they didn't want to listen to me but also I don't know if it relevant but I was dressed casual with sneakers, jeans and T-shirt. I guess that the clothes may do the man

Edited July 3, 2018 by freddel08

[freddel08]

39 minutes ago, buick said:

i would use the current tourist visa to enter via a land border.  then get a new passport.  then use tourist visas on all future entries.  immigration flags people with too many visa exempt entries (6 is the 'too many' mark).  you should try to spend some time outside the country btwn entries so authorities are not suspicious of you working here.

 

i spent approx 8 months a year in thailand for 10 years, starting when i was 40.  i turned 50 last year and got the non imm O visa/retirement extension.  it is harder to do now.  if you really want to stay in thailand long term, the thai elite visa is the best method.

I will do a new passport, apply for tourist visa again and entry by land border from Laos or Malaysia...

Edited July 3, 2018 by freddel08

[darrendsd]

41 minutes ago, freddel08 said:

Yes they didn't want to listen to me but also I don't know if it relevant but I was dressed casual with sneakers, jeans and T-shirt. I guess that the clothes may do the man

As you said there was also a businessman denied who I suspect was dressed reasonably ok?

 

If you were to turn up in rags yes this would probably be a issue however personally I don't think it matters how you dress as long as you look reasonably ok, as I said once they decide then that's pretty much it

 

 

 

 

[buick]

43 minutes ago, freddel08 said:

I will do a new passport, apply for tourist visa again and entry by land border from Laos or Malaysia...

are you saying you will not use the tourist visa you recvd (along with the 'red stamp') for an entry via land border ?

 

i never recvd the stamp but it is worth a try to enter via the land border with malaysia (i assume you are in malaysia now, maybe not).  then get a new passport while you are in thailand (i assume you can access your embassy here in thailand).  i think some embassies require a police report for a lost/stolen passport in order to get a new passport.  maybe others can assist with that if you go that route.

[berybert]

Living in the country on a tourist visa is illegal. It's amazing how many clever people are unable to work that out and are then surprised when it blows up in their faces. 

 

[moontang]

Ed visa...but you have way too long till you are 50.

[freddel08]

7 minutes ago, buick said:

are you saying you will not use the tourist visa you recvd (along with the 'red stamp') for an entry via land border ?

 

i never recvd the stamp but it is worth a try to enter via the land border with malaysia (i assume you are in malaysia now, maybe not).  then get a new passport while you are in thailand (i assume you can access your embassy here in thailand).  i think some embassies require a police report for a lost/stolen passport in order to get a new passport.  maybe others can assist with that if you go that route.

Well, I'm back in Europe. As I said I didn't want to take the risk to be denied again and I didn't figured out until recently that at land border they cannot detain you. Now, I evaluate every solutions even to buy the Elite visa; for that I need three pages blank in my passport and I had only two left. If I get a new passport from abroad it will take a few weeks while in Europe I can get the next day.

 

For the old visa I don't know if it will be a smart move to transfer that visa with red stamp into my new passport.

 

[darrendsd]

30 minutes ago, berybert said:

Living in the country on a tourist visa is illegal. It's amazing how many clever people are unable to work that out and are then surprised when it blows up in their faces. 

 

Clever people can work out it's not illegal, 

 

Where is that law that says it is? Can you provide a link?

 

By the way clever people can also work out the difference between a Tourist Via and a Visa Exempt

Edited July 3, 2018 by darrendsd

[buick]

4 minutes ago, freddel08 said:

Well, I'm back in Europe.

okay.  that makes sense.  forget about the tourist visa in the soon to be old passport.

 

a few years ago, it started getting tougher to enter thailand using a combo of visa exempt/tourist visas (a few years prior to that i'd been stopped, but allowed entry, due to too many visa exempt entries).  when it got a bit tougher, i was 47 and figured i could make it until 50 (turned 50 last year).  if i had been 45, i would have bought the thai elite visa.  i never used land borders and it was a bit troubling every time i entered the airport those last couple years, wondering if i'd be turned away, etc...  if you really plan to stay long term, thai elite visa makes sense. 

[freddel08]

25 minutes ago, berybert said:

Living in the country on a tourist visa is illegal. It's amazing how many clever people are unable to work that out and are then surprised when it blows up in their faces. 

 

Well , I agree with you but I didn't plan to stay 18 months since the beginning. First, I just came for a two months holiday break.. then I meet a girlfriend, then some friends ... always postponing my final departure. 

 

[berybert]

23 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

Clever people can work out it's not illegal, 

 

Where is that law that says it is? Can you provide a link?

 

By the way clever people can also work out the difference between a Tourist Via and a Visa Exempt

I don't need to provide a link. I just read threads about people not being allowed entry into the country. And it's more than 1 or 2 people. Do you think the IO would be providing links if asked for them ?

[freddel08]

41 minutes ago, buick said:

okay.  that makes sense.  forget about the tourist visa in the soon to be old passport.

 

a few years ago, it started getting tougher to enter thailand using a combo of visa exempt/tourist visas (a few years prior to that i'd been stopped, but allowed entry, due to too many visa exempt entries).  when it got a bit tougher, i was 47 and figured i could make it until 50 (turned 50 last year).  if i had been 45, i would have bought the thai elite visa.  i never used land borders and it was a bit troubling every time i entered the airport those last couple years, wondering if i'd be turned away, etc...  if you really plan to stay long term, thai elite visa makes sense. 

 

 

The elite visa is slightly ambiguous

 

"Elite program was introduced in 2003 by then Thai government to improve the economy of Thailand hoping that member will not only spend money but 

to build business and create jobs for Thai. Hence member registering Thai company and conduct business is one of the purpose for our Elite program."

 

Obviously, I'm not in Thailand to stay idle and I may be interested to set a business but from my understanding elite visa doesn't help at all if you want to create a commercial activity since the new visa, such a non immigrant B, will freeze the elite visa.

 

 

Edited July 3, 2018 by freddel08

[moontang]

5 minutes ago, berybert said:

I don't need to provide a link. I just read threads about people not being allowed entry into the country. And it's more than 1 or 2 people. Do you think the IO would be providing links if asked for them ?

no, and apparently it gets more harsh, if you want to act like an attorney...more red ink.

[darrendsd]

32 minutes ago, berybert said:

I don't need to provide a link. I just read threads about people not being allowed entry into the country. And it's more than 1 or 2 people. Do you think the IO would be providing links if asked for them ?

No they won't provide a link because living in the Country on TOURIST VISAS in NOT illegal

 

I suggest you look up the meaning of the word illegal

 

There was a ministerial order issued in 2014 that gave  power to I/OS to scrutinize and reject entry to anybody who they thought may be abusing  VISA EXEMPT entries but this is down to the discretion of the I/Os

 

You can't provide a link because no such law exists and no matter what you say that is a fact

 

 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2018 by darrendsd

[seajae]

if you have been here for 18 months on tourist visas/boarder runs then you should have been aware that the govt stopped that from happening and started kicking those that did it regularly out of the country so its your fault you did not keep up with the regulations/news regarding it. If you are renting a place in Thailand plus own a car I hope you have organized with the owner to continue paying rent or all your stuff will be long gone, car included, if you havent been covering owed money for everything then the owner will simply take all your stuff as payment. A new passport will not help as they will see you have been flagged when they check the computer, as mentioned you may have better luck at a border crossing, otherwise you could try contacting immigration and explaining that all your belongings are still in Thailand so you need to be able to get them, they may allow you a short stay to do so but all your visa exempt entries will go against you for some time I would imagine, doesnt pay to do it through the back door, you want to blame someone for all this and the embarrassment look no further than yourself

Edited July 3, 2018 by seajae

[Maestro]

Removed an off-topic post.

[BritTim]

5 hours ago, freddel08 said:

I will do a new passport, apply for tourist visa again and entry by land border from Laos or Malaysia...

Do not even think of entering visa exempt again in the future, except at Nong Khai.

 

I suggest you get tourist visas in Laos. Avoid Malaysia, as you are liable to end up with that red stamp again.

 

You can (currently) get unlimited tourist visas in Savannakhet Laos if you meet their conditions (many threads on this board). It is not the most convenient place to travel to. You will be able to get at least three tourist visas in Vientiane (with a new passport without the red stamp). You may get more, but I suggest not pushing it.

 

If you get so fed up with Laos that you feel you must find an alternative, Ho Chi Minh City, Hanoi, Hong Kong and Yangon are good options (for getting the visa) but will mean you enter by air. With a visa, that will usually be OK, but your prior experience may, justifiably, make you nervous.

[BritTim]

4 hours ago, freddel08 said:

For the old visa I don't know if it will be a smart move to transfer that visa with red stamp into my new passport.

You cannot transfer the visa from your old passport to the new one. You can choose to use the, still valid, visa in the old passport by showing it when entering Thailand, but it might be prudent to just write it off.

[catman20]

11 hours ago, davehowden said:

Fred, you go to ask yourself what is so magical about Thailand when there are many other Asian countries ?

the temples and Thai culture ?

[cornishcarlos]

My last Non O expired last year. I didn't bother to renew it, as my current contract has me out the country, more than in.

For the last 4 entries I have used visa exempt, remaining in Thailand for no more than 3 weeks at a time and then back to work for 6-8 weeks.

My last entry at Krabi, I was pulled aside and questioned but fortunately was only coming in for 2 days and then flying onward to U.K. I think that if I'd been planning a longer sty, I might have had issues too !!! Now back at work but a bit worried about my next visit to Thailand in August, I will only be back for about 10 days again and will carry cash but expect to be hassled...

[Crash999]

12 hours ago, buick said:

i would use the current tourist visa to enter via a land border.  then get a new passport.  then use tourist visas on all future entries.  immigration flags people with too many visa exempt entries (6 is the 'too many' mark).  you should try to spend some time outside the country btwn entries so authorities are not suspicious of you working here.

 

i spent approx 8 months a year in thailand for 10 years, starting when i was 40.  i turned 50 last year and got the non imm O visa/retirement extension.  it is harder to do now.  if you really want to stay in thailand long term, the thai elite visa is the best method.

Last year I flew in almost weekly. Around 30 visa exemptions total and never any issues. Was flying in to Suvarnabhumi and each time only staying 2-3 days. So I think time spent in country is a factor too.