Jump to content

Denied at DMK because too many visas on arrival


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, cornishcarlos said:

 

So no answer ?? I don't need a visa to live in U.K, so irrelevant.

 

We are now on page 6 of the thread, original post is not being confused by my question about the same subject..

 

If you have an answer, rather than just a Prayut type reply/question, I would be interested to hear it.

Are visa exempts ok to use for 10 day stays, every 2 months ??

I ask a question, you don't answer that but come with a question to me, and now accuse me of not answering your question.

 

I'm out of this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, cornishcarlos said:

What about working out of the country for 6-8 weeks, then back in country for 7-10 days. Repeat on a continuous basis..

Am I living in Thailand ? Am I having several holidays each year in Thailand ?

I'm married to a Thai, who does live in Thailand...

 

In my mind, visa exempts are a viable option and also not "illegal" 

Often quoted is Thailand's definition of 'resident' if you spend more than 180 days in a year here. Resident for tax purposes, but one could use that metric to define 'living here'.  http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

 

So 6 visa exemptions a year, no problem. 180 days without a visa, isn't classed as living here in my mind, and isn't illegal / untoward at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Evilbaz said:

So if they want to write you up for "No money", when you have shown the cash - Why didn't you ask to see a supervisor or their boss?

When I was with IO they just told me:

1. You have too many VOA

2. You cannot work without visa

3. You should come back with minimum non immigrant B visa

 

This is only when we landed that Malaysian immigration told us we don't know the reason you have been denied since it's written in Thai, then they've called someone from airasia who told us they are both denied because "No money".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, jspill said:

Often quoted is Thailand's definition of 'resident' if you spend more than 180 days in a year here. Resident for tax purposes, but one could use that metric to define 'living here'.  http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

 

So 6 visa exemptions a year, no problem. 180 days without a visa, isn't classed as living here in my mind, and isn't illegal / untoward at all.

 

In my opinion, it is futile in the context of this topic to discuss the English word "living", because all applicable laws, regulations and other rules are in Thai language. At any rate, both unofficial English translations of the Immigration Act I have seen use the term "temporary permission to stay" for all foreigners in Thailand except immigrants, ie permanent residents, and therefore, if we wanted to pick nits, we could say "staying temporarily" instead of "living", but I don't see what difference it would make for practical purposes.

 

Aside from that, for the OP's visa-exempt arrival it was not a question of living or not living, of being alive or dead, of being or not being resident for tax purposes, etc. It was solely a question of whether or not the "competent immigration official" suspected that after receiving a new permission to stay for the purpose of tourism the OP would work illegally in Thailand.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Maestro said:

It was solely a question of whether or not the "competent immigration official" suspected that after receiving a new permission to stay for the purpose of tourism the OP would work illegally in Thailand.

Correct. Also I should disclose that I didn't have a return ticket; I've read on another topic that an OP was allowed to get in after he/she books a new flight but they didn't offer me that possibility.

 

I've tried to negotiate for one week or even 24 hours visa without success

 

 

 

Edited by freddel08
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No one is going to jail because they enter on many VE's or Tourist Visas- however, the reason IO's are scrutinizing people who come in constantly on VE's and Tourist Visas is simple- they don't want people living in Thailand using this type of entry. You have a choice- Marriage; Retirement or Elite Visa.  If you are under 50 and can live in Thailand the majority of the year- you can afford an Elite Visa- if you can't you need to start working in your home country.  It's just as simple as that and that is why the Thai IO's scrutinize people .

 

It's not rocket science- it's  the policy of almost every country in the World.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I traveled with VEs for four and a half years from my home country (in Europe) to Thailand, once, sometimes even twice a month, staying between 7 and 21 days approx. Only once did the IO tell me that I need a visa, I have stayed for too long in the country (over 180 days in a year I guess), so I got me a few tourist visas. Just last month I finally got myself the multiple entry marriage visa, so no more 'excitement' at the immigration. I think never using the land borders, not staying for 'too long' at a time and perhaps traveling mostly in business and using the Premium Lane immiration, made them wave me through. The embassy in my home country, after looking at my thoroughly stamped passport, said I would definitely not be let in with a VE anymore. Traveled a full year with VEs only after that comment ?

Edited by somtumwrong
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Correct. Also I should disclose that I didn't have a return ticket; I've read on another topic that an OP was allowed to get in after he/she books a new flight but they didn't offer me that possibility.
 
I've tried to negotiate for one week or even 24 hours visa without success
 
 
 
How did you get managed to board the plane without showing a return ticket.
I did try (and luckily succeeded) a few years ago when I came here to study.
Airline denied my check in because I had no return ticket. Luckily I had a confirmation for my study and after talking to the shift supervisor they let me go.
I was told that people without visa in their passport can't go to Thailand without return ticket.
I used one airline of the middle east (forgot which one).
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/4/2018 at 8:17 PM, freddel08 said:

Correct I used only VOA for 18 months but I've spent at least two months abroad between each entry. 

 

As well the reason of being denied on my report was "he doesn't have money" which is not accurate too since I showed them 600 euros and 4000THB.

That explains why they did try the "working illegally" angle (as if lots of Europeans come here to work low-paying "under-the-table" Thai jobs) - your months out-of-country between entries made that physically impossible. 

 

Let us hope someday, someone higher up the chain finally puts an end to this economic-suicide and uncivilized behavior at Thailand's capital-city airports.  Until then, it is best to avoid the danger.  This is why I quit entering Thailand by air, since there is no legal-standard to rely upon at those checkpoints.

 

You made 2 "errors" of a sort - entering at that airport + many exempt-entries (different from VOA).  Your time "out of country" of 2 months between entries should have made your exempt-entry More Than Acceptable.  But at the scary checkpoints, IOs may say anything - for example, "he didn't have the money," when you actually did. 

 

Thank you for reporting your experience, so that more will become aware of the problems at that entry-point. 

 

On 7/4/2018 at 8:23 PM, freddel08 said:

Yes now I consider the option TE

In my view, paying their price makes more sad stories like this one more likely, and encourages them behave worse with all of us - trying to force us to 'brown envelope" agents for legit-extensions, etc. 

I tend to encourage people to work-around the bad checkpoints, because their staying here helps Thais; sunlight and not feeding money into the hole, is the only potential solution.

 

The Elite is far too much money for a visa, and anyone considering one could spend that money (or save it) by vacationing or early-retiring in one of the many nations which will welcome you and your money, and never do anything like this upon entry.  In the region, these include Vietnam, Cambodia, and The Philippines; elsewhere, many of Latin American countries and more in the Caribbean. 

 

There are other options for staying in Thailand:

  • If you enter at law-abiding entry points (not airports or Poipet/Aranyaprathet), with a tourist visa plus 20K Baht worth of cash, you will not have a problem, based on current reports. 
  • Visa Exempt by land, twice per year, is also not a problem (except at Poipet). 
  • Some have stayed on ED Visas for years, changing languages as required - and the number of required-hours has been lowered in some areas (varies by imm-office/area - still must avoid the dangerous checkpoints). 
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...

I have read it a couple of times in this thread that if you have a new passport all the entries of your previous passport will still be available to immigration. A new passport has a new passport number, so how shall they be able to connect the new passport to the old one? A friend of mine was blacklisted for illegally working in Thailand. He went back got a new passport and re-entered without problems. Might this be a country-specific issue? I know that in Germany new passports have totally new and different passport numbers than the previous one.

Edited by AusDieMaus
spelling
Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, AusDieMaus said:

I have read it a couple of times in this thread that if you have a new passport all the entries of your previous passport will still be available to immigration. A new passport has a new passport number, so how shall they be able to connect the new passport to the old one? A friend of mine was blacklisted for illegally working in Thailand. He went back got a new passport and re-entered without problems. Might this be a country-specific issue? I know that in Germany new passports have totally new and different passport numbers than the previous one.

Biometrics?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, AusDieMaus said:

I have read it a couple of times in this thread that if you have a new passport all the entries of your previous passport will still be available to immigration. A new passport has a new passport number, so how shall they be able to connect the new passport to the old one? A friend of mine was blacklisted for illegally working in Thailand. He went back got a new passport and re-entered without problems. Might this be a country-specific issue? I know that in Germany new passports have totally new and different passport numbers than the previous one.

I got a new passport from my embassy in bkk in 2014 and in the first page they stanped the passport number of the old passport in the new one but even without that i think they would be connected in the computer and same name, date of birth and mugshot would be hard to fool anyone looking at the immigration computer ... ????

 

Touchwood i haven't had any grief compared to some people 

 

Also never bothered buying an ongoing ticket or carrying the 20,000 in cash and still haven't ever been asked and I've been on investment,biz, tourist, exempt on arrival, educational, marriage etc all several times over the years 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Ks45672 said:

I got a new passport from my embassy in bkk in 2014 and in the first page they stanped the passport number of the old passport in the new one but even without that i think they would be connected in the computer and same name, date of birth and mugshot would be hard to fool anyone looking at the immigration computer ...

I do not think that an IO would search for a connected passport. They put the passport into the reading machine and then something should pop up. If nothing pops up then there shouldn't be a reason to look something up. Not sure how many "John Smith"s are out there with the exact same birth date but there must be some, so the computer should not be able to make a definite match through just matching names and birth dates. Does anyone have some substantiated info on this?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, AusDieMaus said:

Biometrics refers to the physical appearance. A new passport has a new photo. No biometrics system in the world can identify the exact same person amongst 7 billion using 2 different photos.

You underestimate facial recognition technology and so did i but recently opening a new account  abroad changed my mind

 

After a Skype interview they made me do a  computer verification scan for aml/kyc to match my passport and my face... 

 

 

My passport picture was close to 14 year old because i used a 3-4yr  old pic i had lying around on the  passport application form instead of going to the hassle to get a new picture taken for it

 

The passport pic was young, clean shaven and skinny and in the scan i looked drastically different  so i assumed i wouldn't verify being ~14 yrs older, 20kg heavier, long beard,different hair etc and still their Computer knew i was that same skinny kid in the old pic .....???? 

 

I don't think you can fool facial recognition tech thesedays without plastic surgery or a Hollywood quality special effects team , Even Apple and other smartphone manufacturers are saying its more secure for payment verification than the fingerprint scanners and airports probably have much more expensive + advanced scanners than an iPhone uses

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Ks45672 said:

I don't think you can fool facial recognition tech thesedays without plastic surgery or a Hollywood quality special effects team

Yes I agree. But that was a scan made to verify a picture and match it with a person. I do not think that a passport photo will be scanned and compared to a database of hundrets of millions of passport pictures in the Immigration database. This would even nowadays take hours. I am sure that they compare the person standing in front of the desk to the passport photo in the passport. That should be straightforward. My question is rather how the new passport can be connected to the old one. The picture can not really be used for this, as the database to compare it to would be just too big imo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, AusDieMaus said:

Yes I agree. But that was a scan made to verify a picture and match it with a person. I do not think that a passport photo will be scanned and compared to a database of hundrets of millions of passport pictures in the Immigration database. This would even nowadays take hours. I am sure that they compare the person standing in front of the desk to the passport photo in the passport. That should be straightforward. My question is rather how the new passport can be connected to the old one. The picture can not really be used for this, as the database to compare it to would be just too big imo.

If you read down a bit it says F.R software was capable of scanning 25 million faces a second but the thread is a couple of years old so  today's computers can probably do it at least 4x faster 

 

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-best-face-recognition-software

 

If i had to guess, Thailand is unlikely to have spent enough to have the latest and greatest yet tho.... ???? 

 

Identical Name and dob combined with similar picture might be enough if you have been refused entry or deported 

 

A guy recently got busted  after coming back in with a slightly changed name and new passport but he still got past the facial recognition  if they have it at krabi.... ???? Unless it was broken they day 

 

https://thethaiger.com/news/krabi/blacklisted-egyptian-arrested-in-krabi-changed-one-letter-in-his-passport-name

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, AusDieMaus said:

I have read it a couple of times in this thread that if you have a new passport all the entries of your previous passport will still be available to immigration. A new passport has a new passport number, so how shall they be able to connect the new passport to the old one? A friend of mine was blacklisted for illegally working in Thailand. He went back got a new passport and re-entered without problems. Might this be a country-specific issue? I know that in Germany new passports have totally new and different passport numbers than the previous one. 

The full name and date of birth will be indexed together, think of it as '1970 12 01 LASTNAME FIRSTNAME MIDDLENAME' for someone born on Dec 1, 1970. That's pretty unique, especially when you add the country to it.

 

There might be a few matches of people born on the exact same day as you, especially in countries where everybody has first, middle and last names which are all variations of 'Muhammad' but for most of the world this will work pretty well. They also record the place of birth (city / town) on the passport which further increases the uniqueness, whether the Thais use this or not is anyones guess.

 

That's just information which doesn't change between passports without the need for any biometrics.

 

In the past people have changed their name then got a new passport, this changes everything when it comes to indexing the information on a computer system and makes things much harder. That is the point where biometrics of previous visotors might be useful - to check against people with the same day of birth.

 

That's how I would do it if I was to think about it for just 5 or 10 minutes. There's probably a better way if you were to actually put some effort into it but TIT.

Edited by ukrules
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/4/2018 at 1:49 PM, darrendsd said:

There are a few people on this forum who don't understand what the word illegal actually means

I wouldn't describe staying in Thailand long term on tourist visas illegal - no charges are ever brought for doing it.

 

All it seems to do is present a risk of being judged as a non-tourist by the IO, and being told to go away until you get a different visa that permits your long term stay.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, dbrenn said:

I wouldn't describe staying in Thailand long term on tourist visas illegal - no charges are ever brought for doing it.

 

All it seems to do is present a risk of being judged as a non-tourist by the IO, and being told to go away until you get a different visa that permits your long term stay.

Yes, and under the current climate, I'd avoid to have a condo, full of my belongings, waiting for me while an IO works out that I stayed in LOS, on tourist visas, 10 months a year, for the past 5.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, dbrenn said:

I wouldn't describe staying in Thailand long term on tourist visas illegal - no charges are ever brought for doing it.

 

All it seems to do is present a risk of being judged as a non-tourist by the IO, and being told to go away until you get a different visa that permits your long term stay.

Yes - at certain entry-points only - and to spite no law in existence concerning how "time spent before" relates to whether one is a "tourist" or not. 

The legal reasons - reported stamped on rejected-entries where "too much time" is stated by the IO as the "real reason" - relate to having money and not-working a Thai job.  Unless those are evident, the rejection is illegal.  The only workaround is to use checkpoints where the actual law is en-force - vs some illegal-agenda. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

I was stopped today. First time .. so many stamps all under 30 days and no overstays . I explained politely that I come and go up to 5 trips s year under 30 days. Showed them an email from the Thai consulate in Ireland saying that is ok. ..the only question they asked after that was have I got a Thai wife. Oh I told them I always have money and told them I had 2500 € .. they did not ask to see it. When they said it was all ok.. I said but what about next time ? Am I doing something wrong I'd be happy for you to tell me.. no nothing is wrong and I went on my merry way . Hope that helps .

Edited by terryofcrete
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/3/2018 at 7:35 PM, davehowden said:

Fred, you go to ask yourself what is so magical about Thailand when there are many other Asian countries ?

Exactly. Head to Vietnam. MUCH easier and they have everything Thailand has.

  • Like 1
  • Confused 1
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.





×
×
  • Create New...