Trapped boys could be rescued THIS WEEK, says Chiang Rai governor

[pathologix]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I see that rather than contribute in a meaningful way to the conversation, you think it is relevant to make pointless and insulting personal attacks on me, which says much about you.

Perhaps you can inform us as to your expertise in survival that says I'm wrong, and a link to the ground temperature in the cave where they are would help your case.

There is a big difference between an 'insulting personal attack' and my repeated argument that the global team of survival experts who are actually 'on the ground' at the rescue site might know more about what items to prioritize than the armchair experts here.  

 

As I've said in each of my posts, I am not an expert; that's why I am giving the benefit of the doubt to the lauded experts who are there. It's all the people who arrogantly second guess the trained rescuers that should give us their qualifications, not me.

[connda]

20 hours ago, Mattd said:

Really, why not just take them directly to the hospital?

I can understand the need to check them all out thoroughly, but quarantine? 

This has to be made into a three-ring circus with all the appropriate officials, including the heads of medical departments, having a shot at their 15 minutes of fame and lime-light. 

[BEVUP]

41 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

It would seem a way of making sure the mouth piece is kept in place and teaching them to keep it clear of water if it seeps in is the only way at the moment.

No mouth piece, this is why they opted for full face, so they could just breath normally 

[Eric Loh]

CNN has a piece of news that the boys heard noises of kids playing and cock crowing. Rescuers are investigating this for possible alternative passageway. 

[joskeshake]

19 hours ago, pathologix said:

What makes you think the governor isn't letting the pros do their jobs? Proof? Ever consider the far-fetched idea that maybe he is relaying discussions being had by said experts?

 

How is the governor of the province acting as the operation's spokesman "stealing the show"? Maybe you should go home and let him do his job... Communicating with the public. 

 

So, we should trust the experts in one sentence... Then you criticise them for not bringing in matras [sic] in the next? Way to let them do their thing...

 

Have you considered, reading the hundreds of posts and news reports, that maybe it ain't that easy to get beds through a tunnel it took the world's best cave divers a week to conquer? Or that there might be a few priorities before creature comforts?

That's what the Thai people speaks around me, and I not write about beds, I ask only little bit comfort (smal matras 5cm tick is not have the size of oxygen bottle)  after al they been through

[Kwasaki]

15 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

No mouth piece, this is why they opted for full face, so they could just breath normally 

That would be great, have they found full face ones the report I read must be incorrect.

[Mattd]

2 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

That would be great, have they found full face ones the report I read must be incorrect.

It seems that my old company are assisting in this regard if this article is correct.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/04/plans-to-rescue-trapped-thai-boys-developing-rapidly

 

I saw a video on youtube this morning where one of the guys that works for them was interviewed, presumably on site, the company provides subsea diving services worldwide.

 

[whaleboneman]

18 hours ago, Media1 said:

I think you have no idea. I served in the army. Did you ? Do you know anything about mental preparation  for a evacuation with untrained victims ? 

Your insults mean nothing to me a TV comment all standard here.

Victims are normally untrained. The preparedness comes from the rescuers.

[Sheryl]

Translation from press conference just given, taken from twitter feed @Mim_mimm

 

• (governor speaking) We are trying to locate more possible holes on the mountain to get into the cave.

• It took navy divers and diver teams 6 hours to get to where the boys are located and 5 hours to dive back out.

• Pumping systems are connected to each other, therefore any team that come to the area need to be careful. As earlier unregistered volunteer digging water way causing more water flow in.

• We need to evaluate how long would it take for water to fill the area, if there more water flowing into the cave.

• We also evaluate if we really need to extract them out in case of emergency before they are 100% ready. We try to evaluate and discuss every scenarios.

 

[BEVUP]

4 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

As earlier unregistered volunteer digging water way causing more water flow in.

& how did they allow this to happen 

 

[whaleboneman]

15 hours ago, tifino said:

hmmm... now what could the Thai specialists have up their sleeve, to get it with over quickly?

 

 

 Well, they are well stocked with tanks down there, so maybe employ a Navy idea first:

     - blow all the tanks at once, and do what a submarine does best when it blows it's ballast

   and then hope that water all gets purged away,

all the while hoping there is no explosion, somewhat like an Apollo One 

 

 

Just hope now the expert international forces are still there,

with a voice capable of countering any rush-the-job  Governor scheme 

caves aren't airtight so that would truly be a waste of air

[Sheryl]

Press conference continued:

 

Q: Pumping rate ?

A: Sai Thong Cave area 1.6 million liter/hr and 108,000 liter per hour at natural ground water point in front of the cave.

 

 

[billd766]

21 hours ago, Spock said:

None of them can swim?! They can play football, ride bike and go many kilometers deep into a cave, but none of them can swim. That's outrageous really. Swimming should be one of the first skills taught to kids, particularly if they are going to be led deep into caves during the rainy season by irresponsible adults.  Anyway, Australian press is reporting the rescue will probably take place tomorrow, which means they won't be swimming out. As for the psychologist saying the boys will feel guilt for the costly mistake they made, surely the only one who should be feeling guilt, and lots of it, is the adult who led them 5 kilometers into the cave.

 

Where would you teach swimming in Thailand? At the schools? Most schools don't have pools nor qualified experienced staff either. In a school with say 600 pupils how long would the lessons last and in a class of 30 pupils who many qualified instructor would be needed to control those 30 pupils? 5 perhaps. That would give each class perhaps 2 hours a week if they were lucky. How big a pool would you build, 5 x 10 x 2 metres or perhaps 20 x 10 x 2 metres? Who would be responsible for cleaning and maintaining it and what would the running costs be? Then multiply that by perhaps 1,000 schools.

 

I am not knocking your suggestions but trying to work our the initial costs, then perhaps add another 30 or 40% to allow for corruption. Add the cost of employing perhaps another 5,000 qualified teachers who are also lifeguard trained and equipped and you can be sure that it will not happen.

[billd766]

20 hours ago, Media1 said:

The governor should be held responsible for allowing public access to the caves

 

The balme game should be ignored until the boys are out of danger and in hospital.

 

No he shouldn't as it is Forestry Department land and their responsibility.

[billd766]

19 hours ago, Media1 said:

Water is water they will be in it. It will make no difference the rains will come soon..

They must begin immediate mind set on the boys. The water machines are not the crucial point. A small help to delay. There is no time for delays 

Of course the water pumping is important as it is lowering the current water levels and lessening the current, which in turn will make it easier for the resue team to get the boys out safely.

 

If they pull the boys out now with out any training and half of the boys die in the attemp are YOU willing to take that responsibility to face the parents and admit that you are responsible and admit your guilt.

 

Can you explain your vast experience in cave diving and cave resc so that we know the boys are in safe hands. With all this vast experience why were rescue taems from across the world call in plus the SEALs when you could have done it all on your own?

[billd766]

19 hours ago, Media1 said:

I think you have no idea. I served in the army. Did you ? Do you know anything about mental preparation  for a evacuation with untrained victims ? 

Your insults mean nothing to me a TV comment all standard here.

 

So what.

 

I served in the RAF for 25 years but was never trained for stuff like this. What were you? Cook, machine gunner, tank driver?

[Artisi]

22 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

The balme game should be ignored until the boys are out of danger and in hospital.

 

No he shouldn't as it is Forestry Department land and their responsibility.

The blame is, poor signage at the cave entrance, there shouldn't be any possibility of misinterpretation. The cave should be closed / off limits - day 1 of the wet session. 

[billd766]

5 hours ago, quadperfect said:

I see 2 weeks of solid rain every day. In the forecast. I guess thai people dont bother with these or they listen to thai met. Those pumps better be backed up with 3 on standbye

There bat shit crazy to say 4 months

Alprazolam.

 

 

 

From the Thai Met office at 13:00 today.

 

https://www.tmd.go.th/en/province.php?id=1

 

[BEVUP]

& looking at TV coverage I would say the blow hole is out of the question as they are coming across both rock & soft ground down there 

[jerry921]

17 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Of course the water pumping is important as it is lowering the current water levels and lessening the current, which in turn will make it easier for the resue team to get the boys out safely.

 

If they pull the boys out now with out any training and half of the boys die in the attemp are YOU willing to take that responsibility to face the parents and admit that you are responsible and admit your guilt.

 

Can you explain your vast experience in cave diving and cave resc so that we know the boys are in safe hands. With all this vast experience why were rescue taems from across the world call in plus the SEALs when you could have done it all on your own?

If they choose to try to dive them out, they'll begin by taking them out one at a time. If they have a serious problem, they'll stop trying to take them out that way and fall back to the other schemes. Sadly, there are still ways they could lose a large number of them: cave-ins, or completely flooding of their location. If the area starts to fill up with water, they're going to have to take them out by diving ready or not and could lose a lot of them.

 

This is why I think it's so important to get a 4" drill shaft down to their cave, even if it's not possible to follow that up with a 20" rescue shaft. Even if water absolutely pours into that area, with a pipe in from the surface they could force in air to counter the pressure and create a life-sustaining air pocket.

 

 

[BEVUP]

So all this talk about drilling

8/900 mtrs through loose rock & dirt 

I'm no expert on drilling but what would the equations be & the size of rig needed to drill a 20" hole

[DILLIGAD]

Irrespective of where they are from, they had the Top cave rescues guys flown in (thankfully) and what is their recommendation for the extraction of the inexperienced kids????


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[jerry921]

The Chilean mine rescue was 700m underground. counting from the date of the accident, it took them 17 days to get the drill rig in there and drill the hole that made contact. It took a total of 69 days before they were rescued, so the bigger hole certainly takes a lot longer to drill.

 

It's been repeated numerous times that in this case they have no maps, whereas the Chilean mine was mapped very well, so they don't know where to drill.

 

But in this case they have access to the trapped boys via diving, and so I can't understand why they can't bring in the same kind of equipment that they use to map mines to get a completely accurate location. I don't know how they map mines, but it can't be all surveying with lasers, they must have some kind of through-the-rock sonar stuff like is used on the drill bit of fracking drills.

[evilebxxx]

25 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

So all this talk about drilling

https://web.facebook.com/ChannelNewsAsia/videos/10155704894442934/

[BEVUP]

17 minutes ago, evilebxxx said:

https://web.facebook.com/ChannelNewsAsia/videos/10155704894442934/

Nothing new there

[Kwasaki]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

It took navy divers and diver teams 6 hours to get to where the boys are located and 5 hours to dive back out.

Hope not too much of a problem but that bothers me !! Do they not do what the initial rescuers did,  they said it took 3 hours for them to reach them. 

[Eaglekott]

On 7/4/2018 at 2:47 PM, Spock said:

particularly if they are going to be led deep into caves during the rainy season by irresponsible adults

Quote

How is it possible, that the writer of this paragraph forgets it was their coach who led them into this situation?

I might be wrong here because I only heard the information from a friend. But apparently the boys went into the cave by them self and the coach was some km away when a parent called him and asked if he knew where their son where. Then the coach went to look for them and found some bikes outside the cave and he went into the cave to find the boys.  Also I believe the sign outside the cave warned people for going into the cave July to October, and they went in late June. Im pretty sure we will get the full story after they all are back safe.

[pathologix]

1 hour ago, BEVUP said:

So all this talk about drilling

8/900 mtrs through loose rock & dirt 

I'm no expert on drilling but what would the equations be & the size of rig needed to drill a 20" hole

Apparently big enough that it would need roads and couldn't be airlifted in. Somebody in one of these threads also wrote about the complications of displacing all of that rock and dirt. To bring the hundreds of cubic meters of material up the hole requires some sort of water-based rock disposal system, which can apparently get clogged up and jam up the drilling? 

 

Given the time it took to rig up and drill the Chilean miners, and the added complications that exist here (complex terrain, no cave map, a small chamber, roof collapses, 'needle in haystack' problem, etc.), the poster seemed to think it might take longer to drill an accurate, safe 20-inch hole than wait for the dry season. 

[DILLIGAD]

I might be wrong here because I only heard the information from a friend. But apparently the boys went into the cave by them self and the coach was some km away when a parent called him and asked if he knew where their son where. Then the coach went to look for them and found some bikes outside the cave and he went into the cave to find the boys.  Also I believe the sign outside the cave warned people for going into the cave July to October, and they went in late June. Im pretty sure we will get the full story after they all are back safe.

I believe there was 2 coaches, one 25year old with the kids and the more senior one as you suggested.


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[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, jerry921 said:

But in this case they have access to the trapped boys via diving, and so I can't understand why they can't bring in the same kind of equipment that they use to map mines to get a completely accurate location. I don't know how they map mines, but it can't be all surveying with lasers, they must have some kind of through-the-rock sonar stuff like is used on the drill bit of fracking drills.

Forget drilling IMO,  instead of talking about the full head gear available for underwater diving, get the bloody things there right away and stick on the boys heads and get em out.