Denied entry at Don Meung even with a valid 60 day Tourist Visa

[elviajero]

6 hours ago, sanemax said:

The IO had no legal right to only allow me to stay for 15 days (when the usual rate is 30 days) , She had no right to act in the way that She did .

  She made up a rule , which had no legal basis and I didnt follow that no existent rule . 

 

5 hours ago, sanemax said:

Yes, she did have the right to deny me entry , I am not disputing that .

If She had the authority to only allow me entry for 15 days , which didnt She just give me 15 days instead of 30 ?

   My departure date stamp takes preference over any  agreement that She forced me into making

 

Your opinion is mostly wrong. You can be denied entry, OR the IO can legally give you any length of stay between 1 and 30 days. 30 days is the maximum they can give under the law, not the number of days they have to give.

 

Once they have decided to allow entry there is little point in giving less than 30 days.

[elviajero]

5 hours ago, BritTim said:

In fact, she had total discretion on whether to issue you with a visa exempt entry at all (with you having no right of appeal). This is pursuant to powers given to immigration officials around the middle of 2014. This power means that they can impose pretty much any prior conditions they wish, though, once they decide to grant a visa exempt entry, it is always for 30 days.

The powers have always existed. Guidelines were issued to IO’s in 2014 (no law or regulation change) when the authorities wanted greater enforcement of ‘visa runners’. 

[sanemax]

4 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Your opinion is mostly wrong. You can be denied entry, OR the IO can legally give you any length of stay between 1 and 30 days. 30 days is the maximum they can give under the law, not the number of days they have to give.

Once they have decided to allow entry there is little point in giving less than 30 days.

It isnt my opinion that I cannot be denied entry though .

If the IO could have given me 15 days , why didnt they ?

Why did they give me 30 days (stamp) and then tell me to leave after 15 ?

If they would have given me 15 days , that is when I would have had to leave , so, that would be the point

[vinegarbase]

17 hours ago, Chou Anou said:

Gotta love ThaiVisa. Everyone's bending over backwards to tell this guy how he can keep abusing the Thai immigration system, with nobody stopping to say: if you've continually been in Thailand since 2017, you are NOT a tourist, and you're abusing a system (visa-exempt stays and tourist visas) meant for tourists. I'd love to sit down with the OP over a beer and hear his opinion on immigrants to his country and their (real or imagined) abuse/skirting of his country's immigration laws.

Yes, let's all take note and immediately contact our home countries embassy to complain about all those Thai people that are allowed to get 10 year 6 month entry tourist visa's to our home countries because that is obviously much too long for tourism and abusing the immigration system of our home countries. Please let's contact all relevant government departments to immediately adopt a 2 month single entry tourist visa's for all Thai citizens and be sure that they are not allowed more than 2 a year. I would love to see some reciprocal visa policies placed on Thai's and especially the 90 day check in, it's a dream of mine. I will keep emailing every couple weeks until I get a response or some sort of diplomatic solution and understanding is reached between governments. 

[Maestro]

1 hour ago, ThaiWai said:

Which law? 2017 was 7 months ago. A single METV is valid longer than that...

 

The last time I checked it, the multiple-entry tourist visa (METV) was valid for six months:

 

http://www.consular.go.th/main/contents/filemanager/ThaiVisaInformation/3 Types of Visa Tourist Visa.pdf

[overherebc]

Pllying for and getting a visa issued is the the first part of a two stage requirement to enter any country.

The second part is satisfying the Immigration Officer at the port of entry to that country that you are entering in accordance with your reasons used to obtain that visa.

Unfortunately it's been common in the past for people to have been working in Thailand and having a couple of years worth of VE's.

The vast majority of tourists arriving at airports don't have a long list of in/outs on the computer but do have flight tickets, cash, a visa and bookings in their hands, maybe even an agent from the holiday company travelling with them.

Consulates/Embassies will issue a visa and don't care if you are allowed in or not.

With a record of VE's or SETV's at some point it's obvious some questions will be asked.

A big mistake many make is to show Thai issued ATM cards, Thai bank statements etc. Try thinking in the Thai way about holidays they may take to UK or USA, how many of them have ATM cards etc issued there.

They just make the connection you are working here and it's on to to disprove it.

[HampiK]

32 minutes ago, vinegarbase said:

Yes, let's all take note and immediately contact our home countries embassy to complain about all those Thai people that are allowed to get 10 year 6 month entry tourist visa's to our home countries because that is obviously much too long for tourism and abusing the immigration system of our home countries. Please let's contact all relevant government departments to immediately adopt a 2 month single entry tourist visa's for all Thai citizens and be sure that they are not allowed more than 2 a year. I would love to see some reciprocal visa policies placed on Thai's and especially the 90 day check in, it's a dream of mine. I will keep emailing every couple weeks until I get a response or some sort of diplomatic solution and understanding is reached between governments. 

So you will make it easy for thai to make visas for our homecountry as it is for us?

Only go to the embassy in Thailand for the desired country apply and almost can be sure you will be granted?

And in which country you can become a 10 year visa? don't mess it up with the spouse visa or something which are indeed easier in most western countries than in Thailand, but almost all other visas it will be the opposite.

[BritTim]

7 hours ago, sanemax said:

Yes, she did have the right to deny me entry , I am not disputing that .

If She had the authority to only allow me entry for 15 days , which didnt She just give me 15 days instead of 30 ?

   My departure date stamp takes preference over any  agreement that She forced me into making

True up to a point. However, lying to immigration in order to enter a country tends of be frowned upon. If that immigration official ever sees you again, there is a good chance she will remember you, and notice that your claim that you were only planning to stay a couple of weeks was BS. If she can, she will deny you entry.

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, BritTim said:

True up to a point. However, lying to immigration in order to enter a country tends of be frowned upon. If that immigration official ever sees you again, there is a good chance she will remember you, and notice that your claim that you were only planning to stay a couple of weeks was BS. If she can, she will deny you entry.

I did initially state that I would like 30 days , and she stated that I couldnt stay for 30 days and she asked me again and I replied that I would stay for however long she gave me (10 , 20, 30 days?)

  She then told me to state a date BEFORE 30 days and I just said "OK 2 weeks" , fully expecting to get a 2 week visa and thats how long I would have stayed for .

   She then gave me 30 days and thats how long I stayed for .

I was playing it by ear and at the time, fully intended to leave after two weeks , but ended up staying for the full duration 

[overherebc]

27 minutes ago, HampiK said:

So you will make it easy for thai to make visas for our homecountry as it is for us?

Only go to the embassy in Thailand for the desired country apply and almost can be sure you will be granted?

And in which country you can become a 10 year visa? don't mess it up with the spouse visa or something which are indeed easier in most western countries than in Thailand, but almost all other visas it will be the opposite.

2 year 5 year and 10 year visas for other countries are not that difficult for Thai people to get.

 

[lkv]

54 minutes ago, overherebc said:

A big mistake many make is to show Thai issued ATM cards, Thai bank statements etc. Try thinking in the Thai way about holidays they may take to UK or USA, how many of them have ATM cards etc issued there.

They just make the connection you are working here and it's on to to disprove it.

Depends what the balance is (the more the better), and where it's coming from. Just because bank accounts for tourists are harder to get nowadays, many regular tourists have opened up accounts years ago when it was easy (me included), and we keep spending significant amounts in Thai standards of overseas income here.

 

Western logic is not always the same as Thai logic. Don't forget that Thai logic states that when you pay a million, you can be a tourist for 20 years. Obviously some of us cannot think that long in time and we stick with the simple tourist visas.

 

Also , a tourist visa holder does not necessarily visit temples non stop, there are a few business related activities that are also allowed on a tourist visa since 2015.

Edited July 6, 2018 by lkv

[overherebc]

52 minutes ago, lkv said:

Depends what the balance is (the more the better), and where it's coming from. Just because bank accounts for tourists are harder to get nowadays, many regular tourists have opened up accounts years ago when it was easy (me included), and we keep spending significant amounts in Thai standards of overseas income here.

 

Western logic is not always the same as Thai logic. Don't forget that Thai logic states that when you pay a million, you can be a tourist for 20 years. Obviously some of us cannot think that long in time and we stick with the simple tourist visas.

 

Also , a tourist visa holder does not necessarily visit temples non stop, there are a few business related activities that are also allowed on a tourist visa since 2015.

True, but all the 'I spend loads of money here' arguements don't matter. Maybe showing  the 20,000 baht and copies of your UK/USA account with 'loads of cash' in might sway things, I don't know.

It's the time spent here against the time spent in your home country that's looked at and the types of visas used to spend the time here.

If my wife was getting 6 month multi entries back to back for the UK with only 2/3 weeks back in Thailand applying for each one I doubt very much if she would get past the second time in the airport without some questions being asked.

Thailand is no different.

The few business related situations are for sure not intended to be used for 8 hours a day 5 days a week for two or three months at a time.

Edited July 6, 2018 by overherebc

[lkv]

1 hour ago, overherebc said:

If my wife was getting 6 month multi entries back to back for the UK with only 2/3 weeks back in Thailand applying for each one I doubt very much if she would get past the second time in the airport without some questions being asked.

Thailand is no different.

Sorry but I totally disagree.

 

We cannot be comparing UK's Immigration system to Thailand's.

 

Thailand is actually very different.

 

Even though your wife would find it difficult re-entering UK for a second time, I did not find it difficult to enter Thailand for years now.

Edited July 6, 2018 by lkv

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, sanemax said:

It isnt my opinion that I cannot be denied entry though .

If the IO could have given me 15 days , why didnt they ?

Why did they give me 30 days (stamp) and then tell me to leave after 15 ?

If they would have given me 15 days , that is when I would have had to leave , so, that would be the point

You said, “The IO had no legal right to only allow me to stay for 15 days (when the usual rate is 30 days) , ... “.

 

My point was to point out that you’re opinion of her power is wrong. 

 

We can only speculate why she didn’t limit you to 15 days. All I know is that they rarely do apply a limit, even though they can, and will either deny entry or give the full 30 days. You should be thankful she did the latter..

 

Immigration, for a few years, have been rarely denying entry in favour of deterring people from continuing with their long term ‘tourism’ with warnings and threats.

[oldskoolbeatz]

You were unlucky. I have been doing back to back tourist visas and visa excempts for over 10 years. The last time i flew in to DMK was in April this year on visa exempt.  She was nice, no questions asked, stamped me and smiled. My passport is full of visa excempts and tourist visas. I might not be so lucky soon however,  getting paranoid from these reports,  so I will be going through land borders every time from now on just be safe. 

[overherebc]

3 hours ago, lkv said:

Sorry but I totally disagree.

 

We cannot be comparing UK's Immigration system to Thailand's.

 

Thailand is actually very different.

 

Even though your wife would find it difficult re-entering UK for a second time, I did not find it difficult to enter Thailand for years now.

You're looking at it not the way it was intended, my post that is.

Thai embassies/ consulates issue tourist visas in accordance with requirements.

Take the example of someone who has had 6 VE's or 6 SETV's in a row and gets a new passport. Of course they will issue a new SETV becacause it will probably be the first time the passport holder has applied there so why wouldn't they. They have no idea how many times the holder has been to Thailand, nor do they care. Visa fees pay for the embassy/ consulate, end of.

When the passport holder rocks up at Thai Imm' at port of entry the whole history pops up on the IO's screen and the holder has spent 20 months in Thailand and an accumulated time of 4 months out of Thailand.

IO has a look and says 'why do you come to Thailand so much?

For holiday.

Where do you stay?

My condo.

Do you work here?

No, I have my condo, my car and here is my Thai bank details.

For me that's the point where it goes wrong. 

In the Thai way of thinking only the ( don't like the expression ) Hi So's in Thailand don't work and don't fly cattle class and don't travel in jeans and T shirts.

How do you pay for your holidays?

I don't work because I don't need to. 99% of Thais don't understand or believe that.

By this time if you can't show 20,000 baht you're 90% on the way to be denied on suspicion of working in Thailand.

If you think UK doesn't look at it in the same way then you need to think again.

 

[overherebc]

5 hours ago, lkv said:

Sorry but I totally disagree.

 

We cannot be comparing UK's Immigration system to Thailand's.

 

Thailand is actually very different.

 

Even though your wife would find it difficult re-entering UK for a second time, I did not find it difficult to enter Thailand for years now.

To directly answer this post.

My wife has had no problems ever entering UK on the last 3 'holidays' we have had in UK.

That's simply because we have applied for and she has been issued the standard 6 months MO visa and we have spent 3 or 4 weeks in UK on holiday each time. We don't spend the whole 6 months each time as 'tourists' from UK do in Thailand so there has been no reason for her to be questioned.

'If' each time she had stayed for the full 6 months and we applied for and got her a new 6 months visa each time with only 3 or 4 weeks back in Thailand between visas for sure UK Imm' would be asking questions.

Edited July 6, 2018 by overherebc

[coulson]

19 hours ago, rwdrwdrwd said:

To pre-empt the questions, British, white, 20k THB in his pocket, mid 30s, always presentable and polite, no he isn't working

Sounds dodgy

[NanLaew]

On 7/5/2018 at 7:31 PM, Chou Anou said:

Gotta love ThaiVisa. Everyone's bending over backwards to tell this guy how he can keep abusing the Thai immigration system, with nobody stopping to say: if you've continually been in Thailand since 2017, you are NOT a tourist, and you're abusing a system (visa-exempt stays and tourist visas) meant for tourists. I'd love to sit down with the OP over a beer and hear his opinion on immigrants to his country and their (real or imagined) abuse/skirting of his country's immigration laws.

Based on the 'likes' awarded so far on that post, we have 21 law-abiding and tolerant members and either 3 or 7 digital pikeys.

[overherebc]

13 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Based on the 'likes' awarded so far on that post, we have 21 law-abiding and tolerant members and either 3 or 7 digital pikeys.

Pikeys never go on line, it leaves a record.

[coulson]

8 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Based on the 'likes' awarded so far on that post, we have 21 law-abiding and tolerant members and either 3 or 7 digital pikeys.

There is no correct visa for a large group of foreigners (I use that term loosely)

 

If you are not married or retired, you are expected to buy an elite visa if you want to hang around for a few months.

[sanemax]

On 7/5/2018 at 7:31 PM, Chou Anou said:

Gotta love ThaiVisa. Everyone's bending over backwards to tell this guy how he can keep abusing the Thai immigration system, with nobody stopping to say: if you've continually been in Thailand since 2017, you are NOT a tourist, and you're abusing a system (visa-exempt stays and tourist visas) meant for tourists. I'd love to sit down with the OP over a beer and hear his opinion on immigrants to his country and their (real or imagined) abuse/skirting of his country's immigration laws.

In other words , youve got a long term visa and you feel that others who cannot get a long term visa should not stay in Thailand .

   Happy to say that you dont make the rules .

Myself, just like you , can stay in Thailand until our "leave by date "

Your visa will also soon expire , I do hope that you wont "abuse the system" by applying for another one .

[MyFriend You]

On 7/5/2018 at 1:56 PM, lkv said:

I don't know what's going on here, but having landed at 18:05 today into DMK from Phnom Pehn with yet another SETV i would say that:

 

1. Female officers could not be avoided, all were female.

 

2. The one I went to smiled at me after she stamped the passport for another 60 days. The others seemed quite friendly also.

Its because you are hansom man.........me too, always get smiles everywhere I go.  Congrats on entering Thailand again without any hassle .

[HampiK]

What I am asking myself, everybody is denied told they are friendly and well dressed. But what is the meaning of friendly? Some not think that loud voices and tell the officer what she is doing wrong seems as unfriendly in Thailand.

 

It's always how you look at the case. I not saying the OP is unfriendly, but everyone who tell their story tell it from his opinion. I would like to see the video of the conversations or hear the other site of the story, which sometimes would show a different picture. I know myself, and when I tell the story It always sounds in my flavor, which I think is a normal human habit.

 

And yes of course Thai Immigration personal can deny entry on some strange reason. But I also guess sometimes it has to do with the behave of the persons as well. So I hope the best for most of the people who try to come to Thailand in future.

[Howard]

On 7/6/2018 at 4:35 AM, gk10002000 said:

Unfortunate but this reminds me of several episodes I have seen on the Australian TV show border security where people that had the approved online electronic visa in advance, but then, after spending money and vacation time and flying to Australia, they were denied entry at the border.  I understand some of the reasons, but that stuff really should have been properly sorted out in advance so the traveler didn't spend so much time and money

If you apply for an electronic visa online you are stating that you meet certain conditions regarding character, etc. If you do not meet those conditions or are not sure you need to apply via the appropriate office otherwise you will have wasted your money and be sent back when caught. You only have yourself to blame.

[JackThompson]

On 7/5/2018 at 8:58 PM, tumama said:

I dunno how it works in Vietnam, but in Cambodia you just drop your passport off to some agency and they bring it to the border and stamp it for you. 

For Cambodia, you don't have to bring it to the border if you entered with the correct type of VOA - you pay $35 instead of $30 for this at the entry-point.  After that, you can buy a year at a time, year on year, without going to the border at all. 

 

Vietnam has different schemes for different nationalities, but they don't mind if you leave and return with another Tourist-type entry repeatedly.  Reports indicate they are consistent at all entry-points.  Just follow the law, and no problems (like it is in Thailand, at most entry points).

 

 

[JackThompson]

On 7/5/2018 at 6:09 PM, ssizz said:

They took me to some side desk and told me I had to book a flight out of Thailand and they will give me a 30 day stamp. I booked a ticket to Laos at the desk and the lady said I will have to leave in 30 days. She gave me a stamp and I took a look and the stamp was a 60 day stamp and let me into the country.

If you enter at law-abiding checkpoints, they will not do this.  No where in the law does it require you to buy a ticket-out to enter with a Tourist Visa (though a consul may require one to issue it).

 

If you use land-border crossings other than Poipet, you will never have a problem entering with a Tourist Visa plus 20K Baht worth of cash to show (if asked).  Two visa-exempts per-calendar-year are also OK via these land-crossings.

 

A 30-day extension of a Tourist Visa is routine, and only reported as a problem at a few offices in some circumstances.

 

On 7/5/2018 at 7:16 PM, ssizz said:

I see, would you suggest flying in from Suvarnabhumi if arriving by Tourist Visa and Visa Exempts? I had thought a lot of people have encountered issues going through there with asking to show 20k THB which is why I chosed Don Meung ?

 

On 7/6/2018 at 10:59 AM, rrremo said:

Don Mueang issues.. please use suvwrnabhumi airport next time..

We have nightmare-reports from there as well.  Both capital-city airports have inconsistent and undefined policies.  There is no way to know limits regarding "how many entries" or "how long per term" or "how recently left", etc - because there are no restrictions of this sort written into the laws and regulations.

 

The only vague limit known has to do with visa-exempt entries, per a ministerial order, so it is wisest to always use a Tourist Visa and enter by land, unless one only makes one short-trip per-year.  Probably 2 or 3 trips is OK entering by air - some report more without issue - but who knows?  They seem to be able to say/do anything at those airports.

 

The important thing to remember, is that you are not subject to "made up" rules, except when in the zones of control of those who invent them.   Avoid those checkpoints, and you will have no problems, as the rest follow the written laws and regulations.

[AusDieMaus]

On 7/6/2018 at 8:56 PM, overherebc said:

Take the example of someone who has had 6 VE's or 6 SETV's in a row and gets a new passport. Of course they will issue a new SETV becacause it will probably be the first time the passport holder has applied there so why wouldn't they. They have no idea how many times the holder has been to Thailand, nor do they care. Visa fees pay for the embassy/ consulate, end of.

When the passport holder rocks up at Thai Imm' at port of entry the whole history pops up on the IO's screen and the holder has spent 20 months in Thailand and an accumulated time of 4 months out of Thailand.

How will the history of an old passport pop up when you use a new one? The new passport should have a different passport number and a clean history. 

[yuiop]

Maybe name, dob, nationality and photo?

[elviajero]

32 minutes ago, AusDieMaus said:

How will the history of an old passport pop up when you use a new one? The new passport should have a different passport number and a clean history. 

When a passport is scanned the system looks for any previous history using the name, date of birth and nationality. If it finds any matches the IO can link the passports and see the full history.