Another change for U.S. Citizens.

[NancyL]

1 hour ago, moontang said:

Are the falsified affidavit s the core of the problem of just the tip of the iceberg?

Americans aren't the only ones falsifying affidavits.  People of other nationalities do it and those who have Embassies/Consulates with stronger rules play other games, like three people "sharing" one 800,000 baht bank account, and moving the funds around between them to meet the seasoning requirement.  

 

Also there are those who genuinely have savings but are "on the edge" maybe using the combo method of income and savings and one expensive hospital stay is going to wipe out their savings and put them below what is needed to meet Imm. requirements.

 

The "core of the problem" are people without adequate resources who think they can retire and live here on the cheap without thinking through what will happen when (not if) they become ill or have an accident, especially if they plan to live out their life here.

 

Dying quietly in your sleep or going suddenly with a heart attack, stroke or being hit by a truck isn't an end-of-life "plan".  Very few people go from being totally completely healthy and independent to dying suddenly, especially as they age.

[vinegarbase]

Farangs are slowly becoming like a woman beaten by her abusive husband. "I know he beats me but I still love him"

 

Farangs are not welcome here anymore, you are out and the golden boys from China are in. There are so many more better places to go retire. You can go to Panama right now and get a permanent residency for $8k-9k USD. https://www.joyful-feet.com I did it through them years ago myself and love it. Unfortunately I still have to travel to Thailand and China for business so I can never seem to get away from Thailand's visa nonsense. 

[scottiejohn]

15 hours ago, Fredh said:

If you have income of say 600,000 THB from a pension, does the 200K have to be in the bank for 60 days or 90 days?  Or can I just deposit it right before the application?  

 

 

The "instant access" bank deposit has to be seasoned for 60 days first extension or 90 days subsequent extensions.

[amexpat]

1 hour ago, NancyL said:

The "core of the problem" are people without adequate resources who think they can retire and live here on the cheap without thinking through what will happen when (not if) they become ill or have an accident, especially if they plan to live out their life here.

So what to do about this core problem?  If they can't afford to live here then where? 

 

I know you like to advocate insurance but for older expats it's nearly worthless even when it is available - unless you are so wealthy that you don't need it - then you might get the 20k / mo stuff. 

[luther]

Let's face it. Healthcare/insurance in the US often sucks even if you are over 65 and on “welfare.” Cancer, a mild stroke, a heart attack, a horrible fall...all of those can wipe you out completely.

 

But staying in Thailand with the plan of spending your last days here is a gamble, even if you have health insurance and some money. Most insurance companies increase premiums radically for expats after 65, most block coverage under “existing condition” clauses, and even companies that guarantee to keep you after you get sick reserve the right to kick you off at a certain age, usually 70.

 

It really depends on how much money you have saved and what your pension situation is. Thailand still seems relatively inexpensive in most regards, but if your finances are tight, there are plenty of cheaper countries, and you should move before you can't muster it.

[amexpat]

51 minutes ago, luther said:

there are plenty of cheaper countries, and you should move before you can't muster it.

Really?  And they have good healthcare, too?  

 

Actually, I personally am OK bodily and financially now, but I can imagine scenarios where that could change for anyone. So I hope we can do better than talk about what they should have done in the past. 

[NancyL]

2 hours ago, amexpat said:

So what to do about this core problem?  If they can't afford to live here then where? 

 

I know you like to advocate insurance but for older expats it's nearly worthless even when it is available - unless you are so wealthy that you don't need it - then you might get the 20k / mo stuff. 

You should be back in your home country where it is the responsibility of the people to take care of their own.  It's not the responsibility of the Thai people to take care of citizens of other countries to who try to live here on the cheap and get caught out when they have a medical problem.  

 

Elsewhere on ThaiVisa many members claim that they came here because of the Thai women, and easy lifestyle.  So, there is an element of choice.  I don't mean to sound brutal and I do more than my fair share of helping elderly expat men, but do you ever wonder why it is that the nursing homes and assisted living centers in our home countries are full of old women?  Where have all the old men gone?  To Thailand, it seems.  If the women can afford to remain in their home countries, why not the men?  For many, Thailand is a lifestyle choice.  

 

I know this post will probably get a ruckus started, but personally I applaud any action on the part of Thai Immigration to enforce the income/financial requirements of their current retirement visa regulations because I've seen first-hand many times the life-ending consequences of people (yes, men) trying to live here when they don't meet the requirements. 

[amexpat]

13 minutes ago, NancyL said:

but do you ever wonder why it is that the nursing homes and assisted living centers in our home countries are full of old women?  Where have all the old men gone? 

Cemeteries? 

 

14 minutes ago, NancyL said:

You should be back in your home country where it is the responsibility of the people to take care of their own. 

Like the USA takes care of its own?  I need a drink.

 

But do keep up the good work NancyL. 

[LomSak27]

19 hours ago, NancyL said:

The "core of the problem" are people without adequate resources who think they can retire and live here on the cheap without thinking through what will happen when (not if) they become ill or have an accident, especially if they plan to live out their life here.

 

Is that a problem with Americans in Chiang Mai? It would not surprise me if it was a problem with Expats in general but that is a much bigger demographic than just US citizens.

I ask because I just do not know. I lived here 03 - 08 but was never part of the "american expat scene" although I did make it to a 4th of July party in 03. A consulate worker, pushed me into that one. I only know one who ran through his money then went home. He was in good health and that is not what used up his cash. really this is the first I have heard of it.

 

Besides Brits bitching about the affidavit, and they bitch about everything, I haven't heard anything one way or another regarding it hiding non adequate resources. Is it so in your opinion?

 

Thanks just wanted to know as I am in process of moving back to CM for a year, maybe longer.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Can't speak for CM. But as for Bangkok Immigration headquarters, I was there today to apply for my latest annual retirement extension -- American long stayer with a consulate income affidavit.

 

Just the same as in past years, I was not asked to provide or show any kind of backup documentation for my income affidavit -- though I had an entire packet full of income statements ready if needed.

 

And I saw no indication that others around me were being asked for backup documentation either, as the whole non-O extensions area was quiet, peaceful, orderly, and moving relatively quickly today.

 

So I'd say anything that's been happening in CM lately is definitely a local thing, and not part of any broader or formal Immigration Bureau policy.

 

[moontang]

Johnson, did you have to get MFA stamp?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, moontang said:

Johnson, did you have to get MFA stamp?

 If you're asking me, re the consulate income affidavit, no, I've never heard of that kind of MFA endorsement request being made by Bangkok Immigration.  Can't speak for CM, however.

 

[moontang]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 If you're asking me, re the consulate income affidavit, no, I've never heard of that kind of MFA endorsement request being made by Bangkok Immigration.  Can't speak for CM, however.

 

Hear Nonthaburi and Jomtien require it,,,sorry "John".....

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 minutes ago, moontang said:

Hear Nonthaburi and Jomtien require it,,,sorry "John".....

 

I've seen sporadic reports in the past for some Immigration offices asking for MFA certification of Income affidavits. I know BKK does NOT. 

 

And as best as I can tell, there isn't a blanket policy for that at any other Immigration office. But people certainly have posted here about getting hit with that from time to time.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

16 minutes ago, DonDoRondo said:

Just got an email from Assist Thai Visa stating that USA citizens using the affidavit will need to provide proof of income. 

This is a requirement from Immigration and not the US Consulate.

 

There have been others going to CM Immigration lately who have posted here that they were NOT asked to provide any affidavit backup documents.  Some others have said they have been asked at CM lately.

 

Perhaps Assist Thai Visa is being asked to provide that by Immigration, or they've decided to ask for it themselves.  But there's no indication from the posts here lately that it's even any kind of blanket policy impacting all extension applicants at CM Immigration. At least, not thus far.

 

[moontang]

That is basically how TM30 started, too, and a few years later many barstoolers will say you don't need it.  Strange that the Thais are pitiful, when it comes to email, but managed to inform you of new immigration rules before they go into place....maybe even cheering them on?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, moontang said:

That is basically how TM30 started, too, and a few years later many barstoolers will say you don't need it.  Strange that the Thais are pitiful, when it comes to email, but managed to inform you of new immigration rules before they go into place....maybe even cheering them on?

 

I've never been asked to fill out a TM 30 form by Immigration after MANY years of living in BKK and reporting to BKK Immigration.  But I know it's different elsewhere.

 

[moontang]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I've never been asked to fill out a TM 30 form by Immigration after MANY years of living in BKK and reporting to BKK Immigration.  But I know it's different elsewhere.

 

I should have clarified CM Barstoolers....I would choose my accommodation based on how TM30 was handled, if I had to live in that graveyard.

[rumak]

On 8/22/2018 at 12:46 PM, NancyL said:

The "core of the problem" are people without adequate resources who think they can retire and live here on the cheap without thinking through what will happen when (not if) they become ill or have an accident, especially if they plan to live out their life here.

How in the world did you manage to turn this into a crusade against people without "adequate resources"? Like other crusades we have heard this one before.  There are many reasons why some people do not have what you deem adequate resources, and like it or not they have just as much right to live here if they choose. If some have problems....well,  that's life.  Not your life.  Their life. 

  All this arrogant talk about people not planning for their retirement is just ......well, just arrogant.  Sure, i don't feel sorry for people that have squandered their money , but there are many other scenarios than those you see through your glasses.  Many, many farangs from wealthy countries inherit quite a bit of money when their parents pass away.  I guess i also should have planned for that...since I was not so fortunate.  And then maybe I should go up to every person who is overweight and eats an unhealthy diet and say " See !   you are the core of the problem.  You are why healthcare is so expensive"

 

Your rationale that people who lack "proper insurance" are what causes others to suffer higher costs is just one theory.  Your theory.  My PERSONAL opinion is that there is an extremely high percentage of people who  do not take responsibility for their own bodies , thus filling the doctors offices and hospitals and are really the "core of the problem".  Ours is a culture where popping pharmaceuticals at the first signs of discomfort is the norm.   You probably would counter by saying that many if not most of the diseases can be traced to hereditary factors, etc etc.  I would say that is the convenient reply that is fed to us.  If that is the case than  those that are without adequate resources can of course simply say,"  i know i should have, but the devil made me do it".   

 

Older guys with younger ladies.......people choosing to stand on line at immigration.....people choosing to use agents....... people without adequate funds.....   all bones of your contention.  and you sure don't let go of the bone.

My bone has now been chewed on,  so I'm just gonna pass it on.   Here's to another nice day , living it my way....in Thailand

 

 

 

[Dante99]

13 minutes ago, rumak said:

How in the world did you manage to turn this into a crusade against people without "adequate resources"? Like other crusades we have heard this one before.  There are many reasons why some people do not have what you deem adequate resources, and like it or not they have just as much right to live here if they choose. If some have problems....well,  that's life.  Not your life.  Their life. 

  All this arrogant talk about people not planning for their retirement is just ......well, just arrogant.  Sure, i don't feel sorry for people that have squandered their money , but there are many other scenarios than those you see through your glasses.  Many, many farangs from wealthy countries inherit quite a bit of money when their parents pass away.  I guess i also should have planned for that...since I was not so fortunate.  And then maybe I should go up to every person who is overweight and eats an unhealthy diet and say " See !   you are the core of the problem.  You are why healthcare is so expensive"

 

Your rationale that people who lack "proper insurance" are what causes others to suffer higher costs is just one theory.  Your theory.  My PERSONAL opinion is that there is an extremely high percentage of people who  do not take responsibility for their own bodies , thus filling the doctors offices and hospitals and are really the "core of the problem".  Ours is a culture where popping pharmaceuticals at the first signs of discomfort is the norm.   You probably would counter by saying that many if not most of the diseases can be traced to hereditary factors, etc etc.  I would say that is the convenient reply that is fed to us.  If that is the case than  those that are without adequate resources can of course simply say,"  i know i should have, but the devil made me do it".   

 

Older guys with younger ladies.......people choosing to stand on line at immigration.....people choosing to use agents....... people without adequate funds.....   all bones of your contention.  and you sure don't let go of the bone.

My bone has now been chewed on,  so I'm just gonna pass it on.   Here's to another nice day , living it my way....in Thailand

 

 

 

Right on Runoi.   It is not failure to plan for retirement it is fat people.  So so true, overweight people are causing the problems.  Oh no, Nancy would not be a pound or too heavy would she?

[scottiejohn]

15 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

Oh no, Nancy would not be a pound or too heavy would she?

This may shock some but "our Nancy" is NOT a pound or two on the heavy side!  

Not unless the many trips to DUKES at PROM have made her so since the last time we met!

?

[rumak]

neither is "our rumak" .    how about you and danted ?

photos please 

[amexpat]

Some expats derive their income from rentals, equity in a small business, etc. For them as well as the under-funded it could be very difficult to provide acceptable proof. 

 

Enter the agents, like one advertising on this forum, that can provide a speedy visa renewal and take care of those troublesome financial requirements - for 20K +.  

 

Now, is imm really concerned about the falangs' ability to cover expenses or could it be that they would like to nudge people toward using the 20K agent rather than the 3-6K or, Buddha forbid, doing it on their own.

 

But I can't imagine why imm would do that, can you? 

[jmd8800]

This topic seems to be alive lately. 3 or more threads in the last few weeks. The people reporting that proof of income is required are either quoting Assist Thai Visa. Others who report proof of income is required are saying this without being specific as to who is requiring the proof. It could be that Assist Thai Visa and the others are requiring proof and not Immigration.

 

It is entirely possible that visa agencies see their business might drop when the new immigration building opens. If they are thinking this, they might be putting feelers out there to weed out the expat that needs a 'little extra help' in case they do not have proof of income. 

 

I might be mistaken but I have not heard of any US person being asked to show proof of income to back up the income affidavit when filing for an extension of stay based on retirement by Immigration. Nor has anyone said they were required to show proof of income at the Consulate. There has been a post or two saying they have not been asked by Immigration or the Consulate.

 

When we start seeing posts that Thai Immigration is asking for proof of income I'll maintain this is the doings of the visa agencies. 

[Bill97]

This may shock some but "our Nancy" is NOT a pound or two on the heavy side!  

[emoji7]

Correct, it is closer to 15.


Sent from my iPod touch using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[rumak]

1 hour ago, Dante99 said:

Right on Runoi.   It is not failure to plan for retirement it is fat people.  So so true, overweight people are causing the problems.  Oh no, Nancy would not be a pound or too heavy would she?

I think you need a course in reading comprehension.    Nowhere in my post did i make either of those assertions.   Before any more white knights come out of the forest please try to take the time to read and understand.   I also made no personal attack on Nancy , and never do to any poster. 

She voiced her opinion on something.....and i voiced mine.  Whether or not being overweight is a major factor in vastly increasing health problems is an issue that is widely covered . Unlike many assertions made by some on TV,   i do challenge Daunted to run to his friend google and try to find an article espousing the benefits of being fat.  

I don't really care what others who are not part of my life choose to do.  I do not preach,  just share my

opinions.  That , my gallant warriors, was the gist of my post.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, jmd8800 said:

I might be mistaken but I have not heard of any US person being asked to show proof of income to back up the income affidavit when filing for an extension of stay based on retirement by Immigration. Nor has anyone said they were required to show proof of income at the Consulate. There has been a post or two saying they have not been asked by Immigration or the Consulate.

 

Neither the U.S. Embassy in BKK nor the consulate in CM have made any changes to their application process for Immigration income affidavits. And I'd say it's very unlikely there will be any changes to that process.

 

Beyond that, at Immigration in BKK, there absolutely is no policy to ask all retirement extension applicants for backup income documentation. AFAICT, if they do do that at all at BKK for retirement or marriage extensions, it's pretty rare, even for Americans.

 

At Chiang Mai Immigration, there have been mixed reports posted here lately, with different posters saying they were or were not asked by Immigration for backup income affidavit documentation. Certainly no blanket policy there at present to ask for documentation. But there may be more sporadic individual requests for that.

 

[moontang]

seeing the actual monthly transfers would be the big deal breaker.  Easy enough to show 65000 per month into a US account...but who really wants or needs to transfer that much money over every month.  I know people that can show it in rental income, but they seem to leave out that mortgages and taxes take back 80% of it.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

24 minutes ago, moontang said:

seeing the actual monthly transfers would be the big deal breaker.  Easy enough to show 65000 per month into a US account...but who really wants or needs to transfer that much money over every month.  I know people that can show it in rental income, but they seem to leave out that mortgages and taxes take back 80% of it.

 

In terms of reportable/countable income for Immigration purposes, it's perfectly fine to report and use gross income figures. For example, I use and report my full monthly pension amount each month, not the amount that I receive after taxes are deducted. That's always been the guidance of how to report income here for Immigration purposes.

 

[moontang]

And likely why Immigration wants more.  How much more TBD, because a letter from the  Consulate is merely a formality..and no proof.  The day I worry about 800K in a Thai Bank is the day before I return to the US.