Are Thais Xenophobic or insecure or both or neither.

[AdamTheFarang]

Hi,

 

Having travelled (traveled for our American readers) to many different countries both in the northern hemisphere and southern hemisphere Thailand greatly limits job categories to so few categories open to foreigners more than any other country I have visited but yet is very easy to get a tourist visa for even now after it become more difficult, let's face it before it was extremely easy. Is it good or bad in the development of the country? How many doctors, lawyers etc do you see that are not Thai. Companies need to be at least 51% owned by Thais. Are Thais Xenophobic, or insecure, or both, or neither. Do they just want tourist's money and then see them leave and people over 50 for a retirement visa that have to show they have money. Two easy categories of all take money and give little back. Am I being fair, or am I wrong?

[BritTim]

Thais are individuals, and all have different feelings about the various categories of foreigners that spend greater or lesser time here. I think pure xenophobia is rare. Racism is relatively common. Among most Thais, well dressed westerners tend to be seen positively, though sexpats deeply distress them. Upper class Thais who have spent time in the West and experienced racism against them (Taksin was a classic example) have reacted by being somewhat anti westerner. More broadly, there is racism against blacks and those from the Indian subcontinent. A select few Thais may feel animosity to Japan (over the Japanese occupation) or France (over their occupation of Eastern Thailand and Thai provinces of what is now Cambodia), but this is not common. Not to be forgotten is that Thais are very class conscious. As a general rule, those considered poor or low class are looked down on. Foreigners who look like hobos are going to suffer discrimination that has nothing to do with their nationality.

[Myran]

Neither, they want to take care of their own population first and foremost and only let outsiders stay here on their own terms. Something I applaud and wish my own country would take after.

[BritManToo]

Yes, they are.

[ravip]

Definitely, neither. Yes, they want to take care of their own population first and foremost, especially with the existing unemployment. Every day, you can see how the Thais tolerate the millions of foreigners all over their country. Well, for sure, no country would encourage any foreigner without money to come and burden their treasury - this is VERY TRUE to the US, UK, EU, AUS, NZ too - Not only bank account details, but they even ask for fixed asset (e.g. house deeds, business registrations, etc)  proof for a tourist visa!!! Anyone EVER heard of this?

 

In the US, UK, EU, AUS, NZ, although there maybe no 'restricted categories' per se, at a job interview the locals are given a 'preference' in the selection and the salary too.

 

Most often, the general local public, in the 'developed' world is unaware of it, I guess, reading by the bashes leveled here against the Thais.

 

Edit

Most times it is very obvious that the most xenophobic, racist or/and insecure  nationalities that relish on Thai bashing.

Edited July 17, 2018 by ravip

[Phuket Man]

Xenophobic. There is no doubt about that.

[darrendsd]

2 hours ago, AdamTheFarang said:

Do they just want tourist's money and then see them leave 

Yes of course they do, don't most country's expect the same? A Tourist to come on holiday spend some money then leave?

 

2 hours ago, AdamTheFarang said:

people over 50 for a retirement visa that have to show they have money. Two easy categories of all take money and give little back. Am I being fair, or am I wrong?

Give little back? Do you mean apart from letting you live here pretty much hassle free as long as you have the money to do so?

 

What is the actual point of your post? Are you complaining because you have to jump through a few small hoops to gain entry and stay in a country?

 

And you think that's  "Xenophobic, or insecure" ?

 

No, it's called common sense

[Just Weird]

4 hours ago, AdamTheFarang said:

How many doctors, lawyers etc do you see that are not Thai. Companies need to be at least 51% owned by Thais. Are Thais Xenophobic, or insecure, or both, or neither. Do they just want tourist's money and then see them leave and people over 50 for a retirement visa that have to show they have money. Two easy categories of all take money and give little back. Am I being fair, or am I wrong?

How many foreign doctors or lawyers want to work in Thailand and have the necessary fluent Thai language skills to do so that makes you pick on those two professions? 

 

"Two easy categories of all take money and give little back".

What money is it that you suggest the Thai government "takes"?  What money do you expect the Thai government to "give back" to tourists and retirees?

[stud858]

3 hours ago, ravip said:

Definitely, neither. Yes, they want to take care of their own population first

If they wanted to take care of their own population wouldn't allowing more Western influence be better for improving things for Thai society. One example.  foreign teachers. They aren't very welcoming as compared to their Korean, Japanese, and Chinese counterparts.

[AlexRich]

They are all very proud to be Thai, and have been taught from an early age that Thai culture is superior. On a personal level I have always found them to be welcoming and friendly, they tolerate foreigners in their midst a lot better than many western countries. I don't know many European countries that would allow foreigners to retire, and really only do so if they have serious wealth. They protect jobs because they are still a developing nation, so I'll give them a pass on that one. 

 

If you go to live in Thailand you really just have to work the rules to your advantage, and avoid any of the pitfalls ... don't marry (gf only), don't buy property, don't bring assets into the country, keep your nose clean and have an exit plan if you get bored or the rules change to your disadvantage. A bit cynical, but will keep you safe.

 

 

[Chou Anou]

Everyone who is xenophobic is by definition insecure. Also, I believe that this thread is in the wrong forum. Moderators?

Edited July 17, 2018 by Chou Anou

[ravip]

6 hours ago, stud858 said:

If they wanted to take care of their own population wouldn't allowing more Western influence be better for improving things for Thai society. One example.  foreign teachers. They aren't very welcoming as compared to their Korean, Japanese, and Chinese counterparts.

No. It has been proven many a time that the West is detrimental to the developing countries. Example World Bank, IMF influence.

Edited July 17, 2018 by ravip

[FritsSikkink]

Are tourists racist, to much self esteem, both or neither? 

[Jai Dee]

I don't think that this topic belongs in the Visa Forum... moving it to General Topics.

 

And please do not let this subject degenerate into a Thai bashing thread or it will be closed.

 

/Moved.

[mngmn]

7 hours ago, AlexRich said:

They are all very proud to be Thai, and have been taught from an early age that Thai culture is superior. On a personal level I have always found them to be welcoming and friendly, they tolerate foreigners in their midst a lot better than many western countries. I don't know many European countries that would allow foreigners to retire, and really only do so if they have serious wealth. They protect jobs because they are still a developing nation, so I'll give them a pass on that one. 

 

If you go to live in Thailand you really just have to work the rules to your advantage, and avoid any of the pitfalls ... don't marry (gf only), don't buy property, don't bring assets into the country, keep your nose clean and have an exit plan if you get bored or the rules change to your disadvantage. A bit cynical, but will keep you safe.

 

 

Agree but why not marry? What do you see as the downside vs. visa benefits?

[overherebc]

The expats I have seen leaving Thailand and going 'home' are the ones who have the finances to do so. ( Some married and some single. ) By home I mean USA EU etc, even the retired ones who don't rely on a single gov' pension and haven't burned all the bridges.

In general the ones who are most vocal about the negatives in Thailand, real or perceived, are the ones who are 'stuck' here because it's all they can afford, most having to buy an extension every year for 20,000 baht or so. They tend to be the ones who say that Thais hate us all.

Arriving in Thailand at 6o+ with minimum income and marrying a bg who is not yet 30 for me is a self inflicted wound and would probably end up making anyone bitter and twisted against the world in general never mind just Thailand.

As for the visas situation that's just a learning curve that everyone has to go through.

Edit.

To the OP. 

Not a criticism just a question, having travelled a lot how many countries have you spent a long time living in, not just going to and working in with the safety net of the company under you?

Edited July 18, 2018 by overherebc

[The Renegade]

12 hours ago, Myran said:

Neither, they want to take care of their own population first and foremost and only let outsiders stay here on their own terms. Something I applaud and wish my own country would take after.

Exactly.

 

Well said.

[The Renegade]

5 hours ago, Chou Anou said:

Everyone who is xenophobic is by definition insecure.

You got that round the wrong way.

 

Everyone who keeps shouting '' Xenophobe '' is by definition insecure.

 

Ditto the idiots that constantly howl '' Racism '' and every other '' ism '' that you care to mention.

[55Jay]

If you've spent any time in the middle east, you'll have seen the same kind of "locals first" labor strategies where companies have to maintain X number of local nationals to obtain visas/wp for X number of foreign workers. 

 

As far as tourism and Immigration enforcement, there may be some cynical xenophobia in there, but it's also fair to recognize they are reacting, sometimes it feels like overreacting, to chancers and douche nozzles who exploit policies made with good intentions.   Tourists who aren't really tourists, biker gangs and wanna-bes, criminals, fake marriages and fake teachers, dodgy agents, working without work permits, etc.

 

So overall, I don't fault Thai Immigration.  Bottom line is, if you act like a fiddle, people WILL play you like one.  Once you allow the Tail to Wag the Dog, reclaiming the initiative is a tough road, requiring big balls, thick skin and an iron clad resolve to see it through.

 

I still think of Australia's eventual, unyielding policy shift on the boats, as being what "reclaiming the initiative" looks like.

[BobbyL]

Xenophobia is very common here, mostly through jealously and envy. 

[ravip]

20 minutes ago, BobbyL said:

Xenophobia is very common here, mostly through jealously and envy. 

You mean at TVF?

 

[AlexRich]

5 hours ago, mngmn said:

Agree but why not marry? What do you see as the downside vs. visa benefits?

 

Divorce can be expensive, and in most countries your worldwide assets are at stake ... as many have found out to their cost. If you are 30 years old you can recover but most expats are in their late 50's and retired. So not as easy. Marrying into a different culture adds to the pressure, so it's not necessarily just a point about Thailand.

[mngmn]

Agree once again but have never heard of a Thai spouse going after offshore assets through Thai courts (although in most cases they have them all anyway by the time the divorce happens).

 

I guess the only way to force someone to pay up would be to confiscate their passport. Can that happen in a civil case?

 

Know of several cases where Thai spouse was cheated out of offshore inheritance by surviving family overseas.

Edited July 18, 2018 by mngmn

[JTXR]

Some Thai people are xenophobic, some are insecure, some are both, and some are neither.

 

Substitute pretty much any nationality you like for the word "Thai" in the sentence above, and it will also be true. 

 

 

[Poottrong]

On 7/18/2018 at 12:13 AM, stud858 said:

 If they wanted to take care of their own population wouldn't allowing more Western influence be better for improving things for Thai society. One example.  foreign teachers. They aren't very welcoming as compared to their Korean, Japanese, and Chinese counterparts.They aren't very welcoming as compared to their Korean, Japanese, and Chinese counterparts.

"wouldn't allowing more Western influence be better for improving things for Thai society"

 

Why would they feel that having more Western influence (apart from technology) will improve things?  I get the impression Thais like themselves as they are.

 

"One example.  foreign teachers"

 

What about them? The joint is full of them.

 

"They aren't very welcoming as compared to their Korean, Japanese, and Chinese counterparts."

 

Not true at all. Those countries are the same or possibly even worse on the xenophobia score card.

[rumak]

On 7/18/2018 at 12:37 AM, AlexRich said:

f you go to live in Thailand you really just have to work the rules to your advantage, and avoid any of the pitfalls ... don't marry (gf only), don't buy property, don't bring assets into the country, keep your nose clean and have an exit plan if you get bored or the rules change to your disadvantage. A bit cynical, but will keep you safe.

Follow this advice and no worries.   Many posts on the pitfalls....listen and learn and life can be pretty stress free here.   The "normal" thai, contrary what many say (who have obviously not avoided a pitfall)  has in my

many years of living here,  been quite accepting of me.  Live and let live seems to work better here than the western country I came from .

[stud858]

11 minutes ago, Poottrong said:

"wouldn't allowing more Western influence be better for improving things for Thai society"

 

Why would they feel that having more Western influence (apart from technology) will improve things?  I get the impression Thais like themselves as they are.

 

"One example.  foreign teachers"

 

What about them? The joint is full of them.

 

"They aren't very welcoming as compared to their Korean, Japanese, and Chinese counterparts."

 

Not true at all. Those countries are the same or possibly even worse on the xenophobia score card.

Thailand is full of unqualified teachers. I've seen all sorts of issues.  There are the odd few of dedicated ones.  I know one that is doing a brilliant job. He feels like there's room for improvement.  

 

I must admit it's been years since I was in South Korea, and Taiwan teaching.  There I got all the perks, Thailand offers zero. Wether the locals wanted to kill me,  I don't know what they really thought,  but business was very easy in Korea.

 

The acceptance of people and personal relations is a seperate argument. People will generally treat aliens not as their own no matter which countries are involved .  Fact of life. 

 

Yes Technology and basic processes also like rubbish collection.  Don't need high tech for that.  Just due disciplined process and enforcement that western countries use. 

 

 

 

[Poottrong]

27 minutes ago, stud858 said:

Thailand is full of unqualified teachers. I've seen all sorts of issues.  There are the odd few of dedicated ones.  I know one that is doing a brilliant job. He feels like there's room for improvement.  

 

I must admit it's been years since I was in South Korea, and Taiwan teaching.  There I got all the perks, Thailand offers zero. Wether the locals wanted to kill me,  I don't know what they really thought,  but business was very easy in Korea.

 

The acceptance of people and personal relations is a seperate argument. People will generally treat aliens not as their own no matter which countries are involved .  Fact of life. 

 

Yes Technology and basic processes also like rubbish collection.  Don't need high tech for that.  Just due disciplined process and enforcement that western countries use. 

 

 

 

Thailand is still a developing country so it can't afford to have highly qualified English teachers throughout the entire education system. Korea and Taiwan are wealthier and so they can pay more and attract higher quality.

 

"I don't know what they really thought,  but business was very easy in Korea."

 

If you turn up to your Korean girlfriends place and tell the old man you would like to marry his daughter you will get an idea. Or try walking down the street with your arm around a Korean girl. God forbid if you happen to be black too. That said I find Koreans very nice people just...xenophobic and a bit racist. as is par for the course in Asia.

 

"The acceptance of people and personal relations is a separate argument. People will generally treat aliens not as their own no matter which countries are involved .  Fact of life. "

 

Yes but some countries more so than others. Asia and the Indian subcontinent are definitely way more xenophobic/racist than the West. In fact I'd say we currently have the opposite problem in the West.

 

"Yes Technology and basic processes also like rubbish collection.  Don't need high tech for that.  Just due disciplined process and enforcement that western countries use. "

 

Correct they don't need any  Western influence for that.

[stud858]

41 minutes ago, Poottrong said:

Thailand is still a developing country so it can't afford to have highly qualified English teachers throughout the entire education system. Korea and Taiwan are wealthier and so they can pay more and attract higher quality.

 

"I don't know what they really thought,  but business was very easy in Korea."

 

If you turn up to your Korean girlfriends place and tell the old man you would like to marry his daughter you will get an idea. Or try walking down the street with your arm around a Korean girl. God forbid if you happen to be black too. That said I find Koreans very nice people just...xenophobic and a bit racist. as is par for the course in Asia.

 

"The acceptance of people and personal relations is a separate argument. People will generally treat aliens not as their own no matter which countries are involved .  Fact of life. "

 

Yes but some countries more so than others. Asia and the Indian subcontinent are definitely way more xenophobic/racist than the West. In fact I'd say we currently have the opposite problem in the West.

 

"Yes Technology and basic processes also like rubbish collection.  Don't need high tech for that.  Just due disciplined process and enforcement that western countries use. "

 

Correct they don't need any  Western influence for that.

agreed, except for one thing. 

Thailand has truck loads of wealth. They are not a developing country. 

They will stay the way they are not because of no money, but because of mindset. The amount of high rised buildings in Bangkok surely shows it has already gone through its development stage. 

As a comparison,  Cambodia is still a developing country,  but it's really in the eye of the beholder so hey let's just agree your right and I'm a little bit right too.

Have a rip snorter day everyone.

[rumak]

19 hours ago, JTXR said:

Some Thai people are xenophobic, some are insecure, some are both, and some are neither.

 

Substitute pretty much any nationality you like for the word "Thai" in the sentence above, and it will also be true. 

 

 

your post makes way too much sense.