British caver says he approached by U.S., British lawyers over Musk's comments

[sanemax]

6 minutes ago, dufusdonald said:

Someone could call Trump an Orangutan and get away with it. In fact someone did just that more or less.  Plus the fact that unless someone states they have proof that he is a Pedo it would obviously just be an "opinion".  Now, if Britain doesn't have free speech laws things may be different.

It isnt a criminal offence to be an "Orangutan" though .

Freedom of speech doesnt give people the right to falsely accuse people , slander them and to make accusations that could put their life in danger or to suggest that they have committed criminal acts .

   Ask Tommy Robinson about UK's freedom of speech 

[BigA]

Unsworth is making himself look like a chump by flailing about and keeping this going.

[swanny321]

15 hours ago, kannot said:

Its  pretty clear to any sane person he isnt a paedophile his life wont be ruined it will be even more respected and even more so if  he  just lets it go

 

  I agree with the first part of your statement.However according to two cases settled in

the UK in the (not so) recent past, the damage to a mans reputation amounted to exactly

£600,000 I'd note these cases were tried around 2010 and the potential for harm in the

legal sense has surely increased with the onslaught of social media:

https://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2011/apr/21/joanna-yeates-national-newspapers

[jerry921]

2 hours ago, sanemax said:

It isnt a criminal offence to be an "Orangutan" though .

Freedom of speech doesnt give people the right to falsely accuse people , slander them and to make accusations that could put their life in danger or to suggest that they have committed criminal acts .

   Ask Tommy Robinson about UK's freedom of speech 

And it isn't possible, so no rational person could believe it. Some US states have an exclusion for parody that depends on the argument that the statement is impossible.

 

In the US, most states recognize that some categories of false statements are considered to be defamatory per se, such that people making a defamation claim for these statements do not need to prove that the statement was defamatory. Being called a pedo likely qualifies. Defamation per se also relieves the claimant from proving actual damages, as damage is assumed.

 

There is good reason for Vern to consult various lawyers and move carefully with this. If he wants to sue in the US, England and Thailand he needs to do it in the correct order, because the US will not allow another judgement in the US once a judgement has been levied in another country for the same statement. And it can make quite a bit of difference which US state he sues in, as well. Libel law in the US varies by state quite a bit.

 

 

[DavCurtis]

Billionaires!

[charmonman]

11 hours ago, DinoSabanovic said:

So it's perfectly fine to say to someone to jam things up the rear and calling this a PR stunt?

Yes. Certainly more fine than accusing someone, without any evidence at all, of being a pedophile.

[TumblinDice]

Well if it gets as far as into a courtroom Vern better have a squeaky clean slate because Ellon Musk can afford it & will dig deep into his past to find any incriminating evidence to back it up. I bet Vern drops it & accepts either an apology or out of court settlement.

Its now becoming his 60 minutes of fame.

[TumblinDice]

52 minutes ago, charmonman said:

Yes. Certainly more fine than accusing someone, without any evidence at all, of being a pedophile.

He didnt accuse him of anything. He merely said in a statement  "We will make one (video) of the mini-sub/pod going all the way to Cave 5 no problem. Sorry pedo guy, you really did ask for it."

 

It could refer to any of the following...

• 1Relating to children
• 2Relating to soil
• 3Relating to feet

 

Pedo- or Paedo-^[1] is a prefix with these meanings:

1. Primarily, "relating to children", from the Greek word pais (παῖς), meaning "child",^[2] which derived from the Proto-Indo European base word *peu-, meaning "small," "young" or "few".^[1] It is spelled "pedo-" in USA spelling and "paedo-" in British spelling.
2. "Relating to foot", in words (e.g. pedometer) derived from Latin pes (pedis) from Proto-Indo European word *ped-, meaning "foot."^[3][4]
3. "Relating to soil", from the Greek word for soil pedon (πέδον)^[5][6]
4. "Relating to flatulence", from Latin pēdō (infinitive pēdere) [Latin: to fart], the root word for flatulation in several Indo-European languages;^[7] see Fart

• In meanings #2, #3, and #4, the spelling remains "pedo-" in British spelling.

Any half wit defense lawyer will spin this in Musks favor & it will be dismissed 

[jimmybkk]

Vern Unsworth is an idiot. Musk was in contact with Richard Stanton who was one of the 2 Brit cave divers who led the rescue mission and who found the boys. Unsworth never went scuba diving in the cave to look for the boys but Stanton did, and Stanton was asking Musk to keep working on the sub design because he was worried about getting the smallest lad out and thought that the sub may be required if the weather turned against them. Musk was the one saying to Stanton that if he (Stanton) didn't think it would work let him know and he wouldn't bother putting the sub on a plane to Thailand. Stanton told Musk to crack on, so he did... (see here)  https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1016684366083190785

 

So, on the one hand we've got Richard Stanton - a genuine hero who flew to Thailand from the UK, put his life in danger whilst co-leading the search and rescue dives telling Musk that his efforts are worthwhile and appreciated... and on the other we've got Vern Unsworth, who lives nearby, who has never been cave diving and whose life was never in danger during the whole rescue attempt deciding that Musk's efforts were nothing more than a PR stunt and telling him to stick his sub up his a*se... (Nice Vern - very nice indeed...!). Which one would you go with? I reckon I'd be going with Stanton on this one.

 

And the world seems horrified that Musk got a little upset by Vern's comments.

 

Having said that, Musk's decision to call Unsworth "pedo guy" was totally inappropriate, unless of course he knows something that we don't.

 

Regardless of what people think of Musk, it seems to me that he didn't just show up at the scene with his sub tucked under his arm and some crazy-ass idea about how he was going to rescue these kids, which is what the media and Vern Unsworth seems to want you to believe. On the contrary, he was in discussions with the co-leader of the rescue mission who was in full support of his efforts. So it was all a PR stunt Vern? Seriously?

 

IMO, I'd say that Vern got a wee bit carried away with his 15 minutes of fame. He lives locally and has knowledge of the cave - it wasn't heroic of him to offer to share his knowledge with the rescue team - it was his civic responsibility to do so, and no doubt he loved every minute of it. What bothers me most about his carrying on like this is that in the future, should a situation arise that requires some outside--the-box thinking and cutting edge technology in order to save some lives, who could blame Elon Musk if he decided not to spend his time and resources getting involved for fear of his efforts being publicly denounced as a PR stunt by some old fart like Vern Unsworth? And if my kid happened to be one of the ones whose life was in danger I would waste no time in seeking to make my feelings known to Vern face to face, and being called a pedo would be the least of his worries.

 

As an aside, apparently the kids were sedated for this rescue, with the suggestion being made on one Australian news channel that the sedative used was ketamine. Call me old fashioned, but sticking a bunch of malnourished, unconscious kids who can't swim into scuba gear and then dragging them out whilst they're lost down the k-hole doesn't sound like the best of idea in the world to me, but it worked, and the ends justify the means I guess. No doubt it wouldn't have even been an option in many western countries, but I'd be interested to hear Vern's views on this. Did he approve? Was it his idea even? If the ketamine was administered anally I'm guessing it may have been...

[Lancelot01]

20 hours ago, bluesofa said:

Apparently Vern Unsworth is taking advice from the British law firm Grabbit & Run, his contact there being Sue Ellen.

 

You read too much 'Private Eye'.

[JLCrab]

6 hours ago, nchuckle said:

There are plenty of lawyers offering their services on a no win no fee such is the strength of his case (unsubstantiated allegation of being a paedophile) . Musk's lawyers would settle out of court.

Maybe so -- but Musk's lawyers may also be gearing up in anticipation of this.

[Rhys]

...oh the smell of money is underfoot... 

[lamyai3]

3 hours ago, TumblinDice said:

It could refer to any of the following...

• 1Relating to children
• 2Relating to soil
• 3Relating to feet

You missed tor-pedo in your ridiculous list. I'm sorry, is this a serious argument? Pedo in short form is well established to have only one meaning (in spite of functioning as a prefix to several other words) it's as damning as the n word, perhaps much more so as it's personally defamatory rather than culturally. 

 

3 hours ago, TumblinDice said:

Any half wit defense lawyer will spin this in Musks favor & it will be dismissed 

Any defence lawyer who tried to argue along these lines would most definitely be a half wit. 

[JLCrab]

20 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

<snip>

Any defence lawyer who tried to argue along these lines would most definitely be a half wit. 

All Mr. Unsworth's prospective attorneys have is a bunch of Twitter tweets. 

 

On the other hand Mr. Musk's lawyers have a video seen 'round the world of Mr. Unsworth's negative comments about Mr. Musk's efforts in Thailand and his suggestion as to what Mr. Musk could do with his mini-sub to play in court before a jury.

 

[metisdead]

An off topic nonsensical post has been removed. 

[lamyai3]

15 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

All Mr. Unsworth's prospective attorneys have is a bunch of Twitter tweets. 

 

On the other hand Mr. Musk's lawyers have a  2 minute (?) video seen 'round the world of Mr. Unsworth's negative comments about Mr. Musk's efforts in Thailand and his suggestion as to what Mr. Musk could do with his mini-sub to play in court before a jury.

 

My response was to the absurd suggestion that pedo-guy might be legally argued to have a different meaning, in 2018. Musk doubled down on it and didn't even try to suggest he meant anything else by it in his retraction.

 

What would be more useful here would be some informed knowledge of how a legal case might pan out based on defamation via social media. Are you suggesting deleted tweets can't be traced back to the sender, even in light of the fact that Musk subsequently acknowledged sending them by apologising? 

[ttrd]

12 hours ago, ravip said:

Elon Musk apologises for his Twitter comments on British caver

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/105589457/Elon-Musk-apologises-for-his-Twitter-comments-on-British-caver

 

Finally the arrival of the expected apology and hopefully this now can be burried and forgotten….

 

BTW, in the headline Mr Unsworth is a "caver" (which is correct) - Read: Elon Musk apalogises for his twitter coments on British caver.

 

Further down he suddenly became a "diver" (which is false) -  Read: Unsworth, a diver who played a leading role in the rescue...

 

Quality Insurance - whats that...

 

 

 

 

[JLCrab]

11 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

My response was to the absurd suggestion that pedo-guy might be legally argued to have a different meaning, in 2018. Musk doubled down on it and didn't even try to suggest he meant anything else by it in his retraction.

 

What would be more useful here would be some informed knowledge of how a legal case might pan out based on defamation via social media. Are you suggesting deleted tweets can't be traced back to the sender, even in light of the fact that Musk subsequently acknowledged sending them by apologising? 

I was not responding to the use of the term which I agree is pretty plain.

 

I was referring the impact in court of Twitter tweets  on a diagram board vs. video played in a courtroom of a smirking plaintiff having a good time on video at Mr. Musk's expense and why Musk maybe reacted as he did.

 

All now is kinda moot until Mr. Unsworth makes clear his intentions.

[ttrd]

22 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

I was not responding to the use of the term which I agree is pretty plain.

 

I was referring the impact in court of Twitter tweets  on a diagram board vs. video played in a courtroom of a smirking plaintiff having a good time on video at Mr. Musk's expense and why Musk maybe reacted as he did.

 

All now is kinda moot until Mr. Unsworth makes clear his intentions. 

The general impression of Mr Unsworth is that he is a Nice guy (looking beyound his childish statement), but it remains to see if he as well is a Wise guy by ending it through an apology in return based on the fact that he was the one who throw the first punch...

[JLCrab]

If this video were ever played in a US esp. California courtroom before a jury, regardless of Mr. Musk's following Twitter tweets, team Unsworth might be laughed right out of the courtroom.

 

[dufusdonald]

4 hours ago, jimmybkk said:

Vern Unsworth is an idiot. Musk was in contact with Richard Stanton who was one of the 2 Brit cave divers who led the rescue mission and who found the boys. Unsworth never went scuba diving in the cave to look for the boys but Stanton did, and Stanton was asking Musk to keep working on the sub design because he was worried about getting the smallest lad out and thought that the sub may be required if the weather turned against them. Musk was the one saying to Stanton that if he (Stanton) didn't think it would work let him know and he wouldn't bother putting the sub on a plane to Thailand. Stanton told Musk to crack on, so he did... (see here)  https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1016684366083190785

 

So, on the one hand we've got Richard Stanton - a genuine hero who flew to Thailand from the UK, put his life in danger whilst co-leading the search and rescue dives telling Musk that his efforts are worthwhile and appreciated... and on the other we've got Vern Unsworth, who lives nearby, who has never been cave diving and whose life was never in danger during the whole rescue attempt deciding that Musk's efforts were nothing more than a PR stunt and telling him to stick his sub up his a*se... (Nice Vern - very nice indeed...!). Which one would you go with? I reckon I'd be going with Stanton on this one.

 

And the world seems horrified that Musk got a little upset by Vern's comments.

 

Having said that, Musk's decision to call Unsworth "pedo guy" was totally inappropriate, unless of course he knows something that we don't.

 

Regardless of what people think of Musk, it seems to me that he didn't just show up at the scene with his sub tucked under his arm and some crazy-ass idea about how he was going to rescue these kids, which is what the media and Vern Unsworth seems to want you to believe. On the contrary, he was in discussions with the co-leader of the rescue mission who was in full support of his efforts. So it was all a PR stunt Vern? Seriously?

 

IMO, I'd say that Vern got a wee bit carried away with his 15 minutes of fame. He lives locally and has knowledge of the cave - it wasn't heroic of him to offer to share his knowledge with the rescue team - it was his civic responsibility to do so, and no doubt he loved every minute of it. What bothers me most about his carrying on like this is that in the future, should a situation arise that requires some outside--the-box thinking and cutting edge technology in order to save some lives, who could blame Elon Musk if he decided not to spend his time and resources getting involved for fear of his efforts being publicly denounced as a PR stunt by some old fart like Vern Unsworth? And if my kid happened to be one of the ones whose life was in danger I would waste no time in seeking to make my feelings known to Vern face to face, and being called a pedo would be the least of his worries.

 

As an aside, apparently the kids were sedated for this rescue, with the suggestion being made on one Australian news channel that the sedative used was ketamine. Call me old fashioned, but sticking a bunch of malnourished, unconscious kids who can't swim into scuba gear and then dragging them out whilst they're lost down the k-hole doesn't sound like the best of idea in the world to me, but it worked, and the ends justify the means I guess. No doubt it wouldn't have even been an option in many western countries, but I'd be interested to hear Vern's views on this. Did he approve? Was it his idea even? If the ketamine was administered anally I'm guessing it may have been...

You have reiterated my diatribe very succinctly sir thanks.  Lots of folks here think this guy was a hero. He wasn't.  Problem on this site seems to be facts don't matter here.  Unsworth brought all this on himself and then Musk went over the top with his stupid remark.  Yet 80% of the posters here (must be misinformed Brits) seem to think this guy was one of the divers who went in the cave.  He's a hero for doing what any person would do and make a phone call? wow Doesn't take much to be a hero.

 

And the request from the main British diver to keep working on it completely exonerates Musk.  PR stunt? BS.  I think he kept it in the news to simply give people hope someone else was on it.  Keep the faith. I'm coming. Something like that.  The losers here think it was for PR without giving a second thought what was in Musk's mind.  Pathetic.

[TumblinDice]

4 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

You missed tor-pedo in your ridiculous list. I'm sorry, is this a serious argument? Pedo in short form is well established to have only one meaning (in spite of functioning as a prefix to several other words) it's as damning as the n word, perhaps much more so as it's personally defamatory rather than culturally. 

 

Any defence lawyer who tried to argue along these lines would most definitely be a half wit. 

Oh really? Then obviously you don't know how competent lawyers can argue cases. Prove that Musk meant a "pedophile" (he never used the complete word or description now did he?) & not a pedologist, pedodontist, pedobaptist or a pedorthist. It would seem Vern has a guilty conscience & possibly skeletons in his closet. Lets hope Vern does take him to court. His past will be thoroughly examined, scrutinized & dragged through the international media while Musk sits back & is entertained.  

I'd rather go with a half wit, creative and competent lawyer who can argue a case rather than take your course of action which seems to have no defense & can't think outside of the box.Obviously Musk will have a very expensive team of corporate lawyers that can drag this on & dig deep into Verns past. 

BTW, pedo is the prefix not the suffix of the apparent implication, so torpedo has no merit in your ridiculous retort.

[Mattd]

19 minutes ago, TumblinDice said:

Prove that Musk meant a "pedophile" (he never used the complete word or description now did he?) & not a pedologist, pedodontist, pedobaptist or a pedorthist.

As Musk has reluctantly apologised of sorts, then the apology itself would suffice as proof, also, don't forget the rest of Musk's comments, put together then it would not be difficult to prove the meaning.

[rott]

To "jimmybkk" lets get it right Musk did not get "a little upset", he called the man a pedo.

 

Unsworth was over the top but apparently not a paedo (or even a pedo).

[grollies]

On 7/18/2018 at 9:43 AM, dufusdonald said:

"pretty emphatically dick oriented" (PEDO)

Come on, you just made that up, now didn't you.

[wabothai]

The vultures are circling.

[OldSiamHand]

On 7/18/2018 at 11:43 AM, Blackheart1916 said:

OSH, I was talking the claim of peadophilia, not any libel suit.

in that case, you'd be right.  

 

on your other point, unless the article is wrong (entirely possible), he never refuted Musk's assertion of being a "pedo".

[dufusdonald]

7 hours ago, ttrd said:

Finally the arrival of the expected apology and hopefully this now can be burried and forgotten….

 

BTW, in the headline Mr Unsworth is a "caver" (which is correct) - Read: Elon Musk apalogises for his twitter coments on British caver.

 

Further down he suddenly became a "diver" (which is false) -  Read: Unsworth, a diver who played a leading role in the rescue...

 

Quality Insurance - whats that...

 

 

 

 

Right, been saying it for days now. Unsworth aside from his call to his mates or to have someone call them was not a hero any more than the Thais making food for the divers. He in fact is not a diver and he didn't go in to the cave to bring the kids out contrary to a whole shipload of fools here who said he did.

[KamalaRider]

23 hours ago, dufusdonald said:

No, I don't.  And it wasn't me who called the guy a Pedo.  I won't insult you because you can't read.  It was Musk.  Your definition of ïdiot" is what?  So now you call Musk an "idiot"?  Compared to who? You? Really? What have you accomplished in your life?  Musk may be many things but ïdiot"is not one of them. Foolish, arrogant, a pompus ass fine but idiot, no.  Shows you are biased.  My latest tested IQ was 125. Can't remember where that stacks up. My sister belongs to Mensa.  Or whatever it's called.  

 

But it's ok for you to libel Musk here on TV and you want me to take you seriously? haha .  Gee, maybe he has a daughter who will read you called him an idiot and she may need psychological help the rest of her life because of what you wrote. My God sir have some class. 

 

And just how did I defame Mr Unsworth my friend?  Do your best to point it out to me.  How many people even know this guy? Those who do know him always suspected he was a Pedo did they?  And now they know for sure cause Musk tweeted it out?  Again I have to ask how stupid are these folks who buy in to that then?  I would not give a rat's ass about them.  And for those who do not know him <deleted> does he care? 

 

For those here on TV who are too stupid to see it was simply a reaction to what Unsworth tweeted to Musk I can only say you need psychological help. You  have serious issues.  Mental issues at a minimum.  I await your response with facts.  Try using them instead of making stuff up.

Yeez, I guess your first language isn't English and so it be, it's not mine either but I really thought I was quite clear what I wrote. 

First of all, Elon Musk is an idiot, albeit a social one, but don't confuse being an idiot from being a successful businessman. Your definition of an idiot told me you lied about your IQ. It would be nice to know what you about me and my IQ, as I haven't disclosed anything about myself to you.  Attack is the best defense, where intelligence stops, muscles takes it further, or in your case, your anonymous typed words. 

Your unintelligent "deductions (read assumptions)" are defamations, I quote you <"Maybe she is upset this guy basically called her dad a fraud."> Please read the articles again and you will know what I mean, but I doubt you will recant. Passing on lies and disinformation is equally serious in defamation cases.

One thing I read was that he has spent almost 6 months exploring the cave and with that experience, helping the divers to find their way in the cave. 

Mr. Musk didn't all of a sudden become an idiot, he established that epitet a long time ago so it's not a surprise for his daughter, if he had one and to my knowledge he's the father of 6 boys(men), one who tragically died as an infant, but he's got no daughter(s). 

I can feel you are hurt by my repost I did earlier as you start to comment my mental state, but I am not angry or upset, I do pity you though. That was another proof of your mental capacity, launching an attack without you knowing either me or my achievements in life. Do yourself a favour, take a knee (moment) to reflect on your own reaction and capacity towards someone who sincerely and honestly don't look down on people with less or diminished intelligence. 

 

[BRADS]

No one deserves to be called what Musk said .             Musk shut up and Pay up and act like a man . People should shut there mouth and be thought a FOOL ,  Than open there mouth and remove all doubt