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British caver says he approached by U.S., British lawyers over Musk's comments

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3 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Yes -- that was a Spell check hiccup. Jurisdiction. All I meant to say was that in California, given Mr. Unwsorth's statements on worldwide media, libel might not apply unless Mr. Unsworth can establish 'malice' in the legal sense.

Personally I think that proving malice would be extremely easy if the statement was made without justification, what other possible reason would somebody call somebody else a peadophile, especially if they didn't personally know the other person, somebody who is supposedly as intelligent as Musk is would know the implications of what he posted.

As mentioned by another poster, calling somebody a peadophile is an extremely loaded accusation and if it is without foundation, then it about as malign as they come.

Basically Musk seems to think that any male that comes or lives in Thailand is only here because they are a peadophile, he even bets a signed dollar that it is true.................

If he really had to retaliate, then he could have used far less offensive ways.

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‘’I can’t let it go’’.

 

Mate, newsflash, you started the badmouthing by telling him to stick his sub where it hurts. You did that in front of the entire world, and now you are butt hurt because you got something in return?! Not cool, man!

 

And on top of that you now go gold digging?!

 

I expected more of you!

 

By the way, I’m not condoning Musk’s words in any way, but my philosophy in life is: if you think you have to dish out, you better be able to take some, otherwise you best better not be dishing out in the first place. This guy just smells the money!

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57 minutes ago, Mattd said:

The damage is to his reputation, pure and simple.

Musk made a written statement accusing Vern of being a peadophile and unless he has the foundation to back that statement up, then it is libelous.

Vern made a verbal statement regarding the mini-sub, that doesn't damage Musk's personal reputation or businesses, unless he is going to go in to production with the mini subs?

Vern made his comments about a machine and Musk turned this in to a personal tirade, by attempting to tarnish Vern's reputation, to me that shows what type a person he is.

Vern's daughter may not believe it, but she does have to walk around with the knowledge that some people may wrongly see her Father as some kind of pedo / pervert, which then has an effect on her life, all because of some egotistical t@at who couldn't stop himself posting on tw@tter.

How is his reputation damaged if no one believes it?  Even if someone does believe it where is the damage?  I didn't know the guy before Musk made the statement so now I think he is Pedo because Musk says so (stupid me) and so what?  How is he damaged? He lost his rep to a person who doesn't even know him?  C'mon.  You can't be serious.  How many times in our youth or later on even has someone called someone a mfer in an arguement?  That has to be just as bad.  Big deal. Sticks and stones ......

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Was the “pedo” remark before or after the “shove it up his ass” remark.

If it goes to court it be on News everywhere. 

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I think this is getting ridiculous - the ambulance chasers coming out in droves - Musk has publicly apologized - and it was actually Mr. Unsworth who insulted Mr. Musk on TV first - there was no need for this - Ridiculous childish behavior by both men - who are obviously professional in their field - but not so much when it comes to ego! I think they should shake hands and get over it.
No need to overshadow this amazing rescue with this negative childish behavior.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

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4 minutes ago, Mattd said:

Personally I think that proving malice would be extremely easy ...

There is a definition of 'malice' in California law and at Federal appellate cases that determine what is malice. It isn't subjective.

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8 hours ago, DinoSabanovic said:

To me this stupid. How can someone say something negative about the company and workers that work there and get away with it? And when it is responded to that accusation, get all frustrated and threaten to take legal actions. Musk responded and that was normal human reaction. The thing "pedo" is a bit much but I do understand him. 

 

Because their is a difference between a recognized world experts opinions and calling someone a vile criminal sex offender because you don't like those expert opinions.

 

Musk is a egotistical bully and deserves all the law throws at him for his unacceptable slur and defamation based purely on his desire to lash out.

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3 minutes ago, DJ54 said:

Was the “pedo” remark before or after the “shove it up his ass” remark.

If it goes to court it be on News everywhere. 

He reportedly said it all the same interview:

 

1. It was a PR stunt

2. The sub could not work and Musk knew it

3. He can shove it up where it hurts.  

 

All in the same interview. Geez, why so hostile to the guy. Why Musk on the other hand clearly was pissed at all this and probably responded without thinking.  

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13 minutes ago, DJ54 said:

Was the “pedo” remark before or after the “shove it up his ass” remark.

If it goes to court it be on News everywhere. 

After.

It is on the news everywhere even now, bear in mind though that Musk has now issued a formal apology. 

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1 minute ago, dufusdonald said:

How is his reputation damaged if no one believes it?  Even if someone does believe it where is the damage?  I didn't know the guy before Musk made the statement so now I think he is Pedo because Musk says so (stupid me) and so what?  How is he damaged? He lost his rep to a person who doesn't even know him?  C'mon.  You can't be serious.  How many times in our youth or later on even has someone called someone a mfer in an arguement?  That has to be just as bad.  Big deal. Sticks and stones ......

Oh dear, you really need to take a step back and take a look.

If you think that Musk can go on to Tw@tter, post whatever he likes about Vern, which is then freely available to all of his 22 million subscribers, this then gets reported in the worldwide press (who BTW are not exactly complimentary of Musk) and this all would have no damage to Vern's reputation, then you should think again.

The only thing I'd agree on is that the damage is retrospective to his fame, however, he does deserve some retribution.

3 minutes ago, dufusdonald said:

1. It was a PR stunt

2. The sub could not work and Musk knew it

3. He can shove it up where it hurts.  

 

All in the same interview. Geez, why so hostile to the guy.

1. The whole thing by Musk was in part a PR stunt, of this there is no doubt, Musk seized upon an opportunity, he may well have had some good intentions, but nobody can deny he milked it as best he could, meanwhile the real rescuers were getting on with the job in hand and were shunning publicity like the plague.

2. Given the circumstances at the time this statement is probably correct, impossible to say either way now, as those circumstances can never be replicated.

3. Look at this in another way, Vern and thousands of others were doing their absolute best to save lives and distractions were not needed, along comes Musk telling the whole world that he is going to save the kids, even gets a guided tour of the caves, likely getting in the way of the real rescue attempt, which was by this time under serious time constraints, wouldn't you be annoyed?

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2 hours ago, dufusdonald said:

So now because his daughter saw the tweet she thinks her dad is a Pedo?  How flucking stupid are people on this site?  And how has he been damaged other than his feelings? Musk has a daughter. Maybe she is upset this guy basically called her dad a fraud.

Here you go:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/teslas-musk-apologizes-for-his-comments-on-british-caver/ar-AAAeKfM?ocid=spartandhp

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6 hours ago, JLCrab said:

And none of that makes any difference unless it came to picking a jury.

When Musk's lawyers are assessing the value of the claim, they will, of course, look at how a jury would react. 

 

Calling someone a "pedo", without any proof, is going to be damn hard to justify anywhere, notwithstanding the impediments to bringing a defamation claim in the US.  This shouldn't surprise anyone, but if you falsely tweet to 20,000+ followers that someone is a sexual criminal, a pedo, without any proof, you have tremendous exposure even in California. 

 

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53 minutes ago, Mattd said:

Personally I think that proving malice would be extremely easy if the statement was made without justification, what other possible reason would somebody call somebody else a peadophile, especially if they didn't personally know the other person, somebody who is supposedly as intelligent as Musk is would know the implications of what he posted.

As mentioned by another poster, calling somebody a peadophile is an extremely loaded accusation and if it is without foundation, then it about as malign as they come.

You are absolutely right.  I will see if I can somehow post the video clip, but in LA that asked a panel of prominent lawyers and a retired judge if Musk would win or lose a defamation case, and they all agreed he would likely lose, but disagreed about the amount of damages.

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This article says pretty much the same thing:

 

http://rightcoast.typepad.com/rightcoast/2018/07/cave-rescue-hero-yes-ill-probably-sue-musk-for-calling-me-a-pedo.html

 

He makes statements as to 'public person' and malice -- I don't know that Musk's lawyers, if it comes to that, would necessarily agree.

 

... and maybe the issued public apology was constructed with that in mind.

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