British caver says he approached by U.S., British lawyers over Musk's comments

[dufusdonald]

21 minutes ago, harrry said:

It does not matter where he was, it matters where someone saw the tweet.  Personally I would sue in the UK, where he has to prove his claim that Unsworth is one  (and where Musk lost against TopGear allready) or/and in Thailand where it could be a criminal prosecution....either public or private and hence our friend Musk would be in very big trouble if he ever came here.

Wrong.  Musk isn't going to sue anyone. He doesn't have to prove a thing.  Unsworth has to do all the proving.  

[dufusdonald]

24 minutes ago, steve73 said:

One thing to remember in all this is that if Musk had managed to persuade the rescuers to actually use his contraption, (assuming of course that it would actually work, which I very much doubt for a number of reasons that I won't detail here), then it would only have been capable of rescuing one child at a time - or one per day, since the Thai SEALs would still have had to replace all the air tanks over night.

So even by now there would have still been a few kids to be got out.

 

I don't know how much rain there's been since the last person left the cave, but the additional time required would have put many more rescuers at significant risk.

 

It may be that a rescue "sub" could have possible uses in future cave (or other) incidents, although at just 15 " diameter, this one would be unsuitable for most people.

One at a time better than none at all.  You have to remember at the time no one had a plan of just how to get them out. They were gonna stay in the cave for months remember? 

[harrry]

32 minutes ago, OldSiamHand said:

He apparently has not refuted the remarks in public according to the article "Unsworth said he hadn't flatly denied Musk's accusation because he was waiting for legal advice."

 

You have the whole burden of proof idea backwards.  If he decides to bring a libel suit, the onus is on Mr. Unsworth to prove libel.  No "prosecutor" would be involved in a libel suit (unless he decides to bring a criminal libel suit).  It would be plaintiff's attorney vs. defendant's attorney.

Under Thai law a Criminal Libel suit may be launched without the prosecuter's involvement.

[sanemax]

14 minutes ago, dufusdonald said:

haha  Nice try. You like looking foolish? Want to take a poll to see where people think "stick it where it hurts"refers to? Want to put some money up? I doubt it.

I havent stated what I thought that he meant , I just stated that he didnt say "ass" and what he meant was open to interpretation or Vern needs to confirm what he meant  .

   IMO , it was purposely ambiguous 

[harrry]

4 minutes ago, dufusdonald said:

Wrong.  Musk isn't going to sue anyone. He doesn't have to prove a thing.  Unsworth has to do all the proving.  

No, in the UK Unsworth just has to show the item was published.  Musk has to prove it was true.

[Muzarella]

2 hours ago, DinoSabanovic said:

To me this stupid. How can someone say something negative about the company and workers that work there and get away with it? And when it is responded to that accusation, get all frustrated and threaten to take legal actions. Musk responded and that was normal human reaction. The thing "pedo" is a bit much but I do understand him. 

Pedo means Fart in Spanish.... Musk was texting in Spanish....

[bluesofa]

12 minutes ago, Muzarella said:

Pedo means Fart in Spanish.... Musk was texting in Spanish....

You mean it's blown off out of all proportion?

 

[dufusdonald]

31 minutes ago, harrry said:

No, in the UK Unsworth just has to show the item was published.  Musk has to prove it was true.

So then Unsworth if Musk sued him would have to prove the sub did not work or could not work?  Unsworth also said (reportedly) that Musk did it solely for publicity so you could make a case then that Musk knew the sub would not work and did it solely for publicity. wow talk about slandering a guy or ruining him financially. I would rather be Musk than this guy if Musk files a suit against him.  What does this guy have to lose financially because someone called him a Pedo? How many people know who this guy is anyway vs Musk?  

 

Musk made a statement he cannot prove. Unsworth made two statements he cannot prove. I'll take Musk in a lawsuit.

[jerry921]

I understand that  Dewey, Screwem & Howe come highly recommended.

[FitnessHealthTravel]

Peter Thiel will fund it.

[harrry]

13 minutes ago, dufusdonald said:

So then Unsworth if Musk sued him would have to prove the sub did not work or could not work?  Unsworth also said (reportedly) that Musk did it solely for publicity so you could make a case then that Musk knew the sub would not work and did it solely for publicity. wow talk about slandering a guy or ruining him financially. I would rather be Musk than this guy if Musk files a suit against him.  What does this guy have to lose financially because someone called him a Pedo? How many people know who this guy is anyway vs Musk?  

 

Musk made a statement he cannot prove. Unsworth made two statements he cannot prove. I'll take Musk in a lawsuit.

They would be two separate lawsuits....we are talking about Unsworth suing Musk and in the UK courts the matter of the submarine is not relevant in any way to the defamation.

[elgenon]

Can Musk sue him for saying it wouldn't work? Just curious. Musk's comments were bad.

[KamalaRider]

5 hours ago, kannot said:

Its  pretty clear to any sane person he isnt a paedophile his life wont be ruined it will be even more respected and even more so if  he  just lets it go

What about the insane ones? Is he in the clear from them?

Would you like to be called the one word that triggers hate and possible persecution from people who believes that if it's written on internet, it's true.

People don't understand the ramification of what they say or write as everyone in this world aren't sane.

Mr. Unsworth has my full respect and regardless of his motives, I for one salute him and his actions. 

[cyberfarang]

Vern Unsworth, was a major part of the rescue team, placing his life on the line, expecting nothing in return, and now he has to deal with this shit. Absolutely disgusting.

 

The Elon Musk comment reflects what a large minority of westerners that have never visited Thailand views about white, male, middle aged, Thailand expats, that we`re either weird, sexual perverts, dodgy or losers that have run away from our own countries for whatever reasons.

 

Although I`m sorry this has occurred, I hope this matter does go to court, because these type of allegations reflects on the reputations of all Thailand expats.

[dufusdonald]

8 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

Vern Unsworth, was a major part of the rescue team, placing his life on the line, expecting nothing in return, and now he has to deal with this shit. Absolutely disgusting.

 

The Elon Musk comment reflects what a large minority of westerners that have never visited Thailand views about white, male, middle aged, Thailand expats, that we`re either weird, sexual perverts, dodgy or losers that have run away from our own countries for whatever reasons.

 

Although I`m sorry this has occurred, I hope this matter does go to court, because these type of allegations reflects on the reputations of all Thailand expats.

 

8 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

Vern Unsworth, was a major part of the rescue team, placing his life on the line, expecting nothing in return, and now he has to deal with this shit. Absolutely disgusting.

 

The Elon Musk comment reflects what a large minority of westerners that have never visited Thailand views about white, male, middle aged, Thailand expats, that we`re either weird, sexual perverts, dodgy or losers that have run away from our own countries for whatever reasons.

 

Although I`m sorry this has occurred, I hope this matter does go to court, because these type of allegations reflects on the reputations of all Thailand expats.

How did  he place his life on the line?  He wasn't a diver. All credit to him for recommending his mates come to help and for his help but to say he placed his life on the line is not factual.  And not only that he absolutely posed for that photograph of his shoe with the tape.  Not looking for publicity?  C'mon, I'm a photog. Nothing wrong with it but kinda hypocritical of the guy to say Musk was only looking for publicity. Said it before. Musk didn't need to get involved. He doesn't need any more publicity. Stupid to suggest he did it for publicity.

 

In fact, in America you would have to have gotten a release from the guy to publish it since he knew he was being photographed.

[FritsSikkink]

5 hours ago, kannot said:

fer  ferks  sake why dont you and  him just apologise to each other, turning something good  now into a  stupid  squabble and in PRIVATE

Maybe because 22 million followers of Musk seen the false claim and all newspapers dived into it, which his daughter seen too?

[dufusdonald]

2 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Maybe because 22 million followers of Musk seen the false claim and all newspapers dived into it, which his daughter seen too?

So now because his daughter saw the tweet she thinks her dad is a Pedo?  How flucking stupid are people on this site?  And how has he been damaged other than his feelings? Musk has a daughter. Maybe she is upset this guy basically called her dad a fraud.

[sqwakvfr]

Was Elon Musk in Thailand when he sent this tweet?  It so then could Mr. Unsworth pursue a criminal defamation case in the Thai Justice system because Defamation in Thailand is a crime.  

 

At least Musk has not pulled the "Russians hacked my twitter account" defense/excuse.  

[saminoz]

5 hours ago, JLCrab said:

Agreed.

To the long post on the prior page, if Mr. Unsworth had made his statements about Mr. Musk privately in a restaurant and someone overhead and reported it back to Musk, and then Musk went on Twitter and made comments about Mr. Unsworth that would be one thing.

 

But as Mr. Unsworth made his comments publicly on CNN which were heard by millions of persons worldwide before it came to Mr. Musk's attention, at least under California libel law, that is something else.

"But as Mr. Unsworth made his comments publicly on CNN which were heard by millions of persons worldwide before it came to Mr. Musk's attention, at least under California libel law, that is something else."

Therein lies the difference.  Mr. Unsworth has, to the best of my knowledge, little or no experience in front of TV news cameras.  Musk, on the other hand, has alays been the subject of a news storyand should be very well aware that whatever he says or Tweets will reach an enromous audience.

Unsworth's remarks, whilst obviosy not well thought out, are understandable.

Musk's response was malicious, personal and intended to damage.

He deserves all he gets in my book.

[Fabrizio Cremonini]

5 hours ago, charmonman said:

What are you talking about? He didn't say something negative about Musk's company or its workers other than that Musk's mini-submarine idea had no chance of working. For upsetting this <deleted>'s fragile ego he is accused of being a pedophile? You think that's a normal human reaction? No, it's not normal, it is called slander.

it is true that Mr. Vern  he said about Musk  : the minisub he can stick it to where it hurt .....? this is what he said to the CNN , so if it is true ....why have to say something like that ?

[JLCrab]

2 minutes ago, saminoz said:

<snip>

He deserves all he gets in my book.

What book?

[cyberfarang]

3 minutes ago, dufusdonald said:

So now because his daughter saw the tweet she thinks her dad is a Pedo?  How flucking stupid are people on this site?  And how has he been damaged other than his feelings? Musk has a daughter. Maybe she is upset this guy basically called her dad a fraud.

You are full of it.

 

The media is a powerful medium, idiots believe anything they see and read on the media and published in the public domain. Even those that don`t take it literally, this still places, could be, maybe not, in peoples minds.

 

This has been a deliberate ploy to place the diver on the defence. Not only that, this is psychologically not good for the rescued boys who believe those who rescued them are heroes, and suddenly find themselves being used as pawns in a game of bickering and media sensationalised crap.

 

Who gives a rat`s turd that elephant Musk`s feelings are hurt, and he can shove his submarine where the sun don`t shine. 

 

All that matters is the welfare of the boys and their future well being.

 

 

[namatjira]

Does not really matter does it ... even if he wins and buys a big house with the money everyone will know it’s the pedos house, that’s what it will be called....he has this for the rest of his days......musk has smeared him forever....nobody going to forget, he is now the pedo man.

serious defamation has gone down that will require some serious compensation......

[FritsSikkink]

27 minutes ago, dufusdonald said:

So now because his daughter saw the tweet she thinks her dad is a Pedo?  How flucking stupid are people on this site?  And how has he been damaged other than his feelings? Musk has a daughter. Maybe she is upset this guy basically called her dad a fraud.

Musk has a long history of bullying people, he even got a warning letter from his investors. You jump to conclusions and call other people stupid? Have a look in the mirror

[sanemax]

15 minutes ago, Fabrizio Cremonini said:

it is true that Mr. Vern  he said about Musk  : the minisub he can stick it to where it hurt .....? this is what he said to the CNN , so if it is true ....why have to say something like that ?

Could have been viewed as just banter .

Musk could have replied with *If I'm ever behind you in a cave with my submarine , I know exactly where it will be going*

[Jackin1960]

This story has many more miles to go and it could yet have a suprising twist at  the end, who knows? The film makers might be left with somthing worthy of an Oscar. 

[TKDfella]

I am not going to say who is wrong in this case...for a start I have no idea...but, Great Caesars Ghost this really has gotten 'out of hand' as they say. I do think that E. Musk should not have offered the submarine in the first simply because I think the divers had enough problems with the air tanks. E. Musk should have kept quite and kept the idea under his hat. If the divers hadn't been successful...could go on all day eh? It's all been made worse because the rescue operation had become highly publicized and the whole news worldwide.

There is one thing that bothers me though. E. Musk wants to put people on the Moon, Mars etc. and with attitudes as they are present there's likely to be some 'humdingers up there too'.

[NomadRip]

4 hours ago, dufusdonald said:

If this guy sues Musk he has to:

 

1. Prove Musk said it with malice.  Since his tweet was a reaction to Unsworth's tweet that Musk could stick the sub up his ass good luck with that

2. Prove he is not a Pedo (how do you do that?)

3. Prove Musk's tweet has caused him financial loss (does this guy even work anymore?)

 

Good luck with all that

It wasn't a tweet by Unsworth, it was his video interview with international reporters.

 

He insulted Musk, Musk insulted him back. What is there to sue about? People call each other names all the time.

[lamyai3]

2 hours ago, Dustdevil said:

It could be interesting. Did Musk tweet the comment while physically present in Thailand? From a Thai server or US server? Does that matter? I don't know; I only know about US defamation law, which is civil, of course, not criminal.

I don't know if it matters either from a legal perspective. But yes he'd left Thailand, I assume it was back in California. 

[AndyFarang]

Vernon - how about taking a different route. Issue a statement to the press and public, saying in effect that you will not be pursuing any defamation or other case, and that this was a silly spat. But ask that Musk gives money to set up a trust fund for the boys' education (or whatever else, and managed by an appointee to include admin costs to run it) + build a school in this area - perhaps you list down the total cost for this, and then might also be a good idea to show what % of his wealth this would cost him for a small gesture, ie 0.00000000....1 %. I doubt Vern needs any large compensation, he is already retired and doesnt seem the sort of guy that needs a jetset lifestyle. This would also win him high praise among Thai people, and stick it to Musk at the same time.