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British caver says he approached by U.S., British lawyers over Musk's comments


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55 minutes ago, dufusdonald said:

So now because his daughter saw the tweet she thinks her dad is a Pedo?  How flucking stupid are people on this site?  And how has he been damaged other than his feelings? Musk has a daughter. Maybe she is upset this guy basically called her dad a fraud.

The damage is to his reputation, pure and simple.

Musk made a written statement accusing Vern of being a peadophile and unless he has the foundation to back that statement up, then it is libelous.

Vern made a verbal statement regarding the mini-sub, that doesn't damage Musk's personal reputation or businesses, unless he is going to go in to production with the mini subs?

Vern made his comments about a machine and Musk turned this in to a personal tirade, by attempting to tarnish Vern's reputation, to me that shows what type a person he is.

Vern's daughter may not believe it, but she does have to walk around with the knowledge that some people may wrongly see her Father as some kind of pedo / pervert, which then has an effect on her life, all because of some egotistical t@at who couldn't stop himself posting on tw@tter.

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While the above suggestion in general may be a good idea, I think given Mr. Unsworth's comments to the media that this is not over' etc., an agreement not to initiate any legal action may require a more formal arrangement.

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6 hours ago, kannot said:

Its  pretty clear to any sane person he isnt a paedophile his life wont be ruined it will be even more respected and even more so if  he  just lets it go

Let it GO... Are you Musk's friend or something... If anyone ever called me a Pedo I would take their house and stick them on a soup kitchen to live

 

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1 hour ago, dufusdonald said:

So now because his daughter saw the tweet she thinks her dad is a Pedo?  How flucking stupid are people on this site?  And how has he been damaged other than his feelings? Musk has a daughter. Maybe she is upset this guy basically called her dad a fraud.

I won't call you names but instead of me being offensive, please stop and reflect what you wrote.  

You asked how stupid people could be on this site, I just wonder how high IQ you have, I don't mean that in a condescending way, so I will explain. 

Mr. Unsworth daughter (and the rest of the world most probably) read what that idiot Mr. Musk wrote, she's got friends, friends of friends, possible she's got enemies, as everyone else got them, sometimes without knowing they have them too, her employer might know her father, people in public service might recognise her name and make the connection etc. NOW do you see the possible consequences of shewting your yapper. The world is tough enough and unjust, every attempt to make it more harsh, I for one will try to crush. The word Mr.Musk used to derogate Mr. Unsworth is an extremely loaded word and it's used to destroy innocent people's lives because it CAN be done very easily using those loaded words. What you speculate around with his daughter isn't your business, mind yourself and your life and try not to open your (keyboard)yapper with the purpose of defaming someone you obviously don't know.

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11 minutes ago, Mattd said:

The damage is to his reputation, pure and simple.

Musk made a written statement accusing Vern of being a peadophile and unless he has the foundation to back that statement up, then it is libelous.

<snip>

 In which justification?

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1 hour ago, dufusdonald said:

 

How did  he place his life on the line?  He wasn't a diver. All credit to him for recommending his mates come to help and for his help but to say he placed his life on the line is not factual.  And not only that he absolutely posed for that photograph of his shoe with the tape.  Not looking for publicity?  C'mon, I'm a photog. Nothing wrong with it but kinda hypocritical of the guy to say Musk was only looking for publicity. Said it before. Musk didn't need to get involved. He doesn't need any more publicity. Stupid to suggest he did it for publicity.

 

In fact, in America you would have to have gotten a release from the guy to publish it since he knew he was being photographed.

Musk  got his first ''bums rush'' by the Thai Governor of the province (you know the bloke in charge of the whole operation) Musk then made a remark that the Governor did not know and implied he was wrong.

he then went looking for others to look at his submarine, he then commented that one English diver had encouraged

him? by saying it ''could work''...…

this is all the while when the water was rising in some parts, added to the fact that a lot of  the caves floor would have  to be  climbed/crawled/walked (they were struggling to replace the air tanks due to the terrain they encounterd )

and the rainy season had just begun....yeh just the scenario to use an un trialed sub that no one had ever used before

so why was he so pushy......have a guess...lol just as well all the real hero's got their way. 

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11 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

 In which justification?

I assume you meant jurisdiction? 

That would be for the legal types to sort out, I am pretty sure that in years to come posting libelous statements on social media will become test cases for the courts and due to the autonomy of the location, then it won't matter as to the where it was physically posted.

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7 hours ago, charmonman said:

What are you talking about? He didn't say something negative about Musk's company or its workers other than that Musk's mini-submarine idea had no chance of working. For upsetting this <deleted>'s fragile ego he is accused of being a pedophile? You think that's a normal human reaction? No, it's not normal, it is called slander.

So it's perfectly fine to say to someone to jam things up the rear and calling this a PR stunt?

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9 minutes ago, Mattd said:

I assume you meant jurisdiction? 

That would be for the legal types to sort out, I am pretty sure that in years to come posting libelous statements on social media will become test cases for the courts and due to the autonomy of the location, then it won't matter as to the where it was physically posted.

Yes -- that was a Spell check hiccup. Jurisdiction. All I meant to say was that in California, given Mr. Unwsorth's statements on worldwide media, libel might not apply unless Mr. Unsworth can establish 'malice' in the legal sense.

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26 minutes ago, KamalaRider said:

I won't call you names but instead of me being offensive, please stop and reflect what you wrote.  

You asked how stupid people could be on this site, I just wonder how high IQ you have, I don't mean that in a condescending way, so I will explain. 

Mr. Unsworth daughter (and the rest of the world most probably) read what that idiot Mr. Musk wrote, she's got friends, friends of friends, possible she's got enemies, as everyone else got them, sometimes without knowing they have them too, her employer might know her father, people in public service might recognise her name and make the connection etc. NOW do you see the possible consequences of shewting your yapper. The world is tough enough and unjust, every attempt to make it more harsh, I for one will try to crush. The word Mr.Musk used to derogate Mr. Unsworth is an extremely loaded word and it's used to destroy innocent people's lives because it CAN be done very easily using those loaded words. What you speculate around with his daughter isn't your business, mind yourself and your life and try not to open your (keyboard)yapper with the purpose of defaming someone you obviously don't know.

No, I don't.  And it wasn't me who called the guy a Pedo.  I won't insult you because you can't read.  It was Musk.  Your definition of ïdiot" is what?  So now you call Musk an "idiot"?  Compared to who? You? Really? What have you accomplished in your life?  Musk may be many things but ïdiot"is not one of them. Foolish, arrogant, a pompus ass fine but idiot, no.  Shows you are biased.  My latest tested IQ was 125. Can't remember where that stacks up. My sister belongs to Mensa.  Or whatever it's called.  

 

But it's ok for you to libel Musk here on TV and you want me to take you seriously? haha .  Gee, maybe he has a daughter who will read you called him an idiot and she may need psychological help the rest of her life because of what you wrote. My God sir have some class. 

 

And just how did I defame Mr Unsworth my friend?  Do your best to point it out to me.  How many people even know this guy? Those who do know him always suspected he was a Pedo did they?  And now they know for sure cause Musk tweeted it out?  Again I have to ask how stupid are these folks who buy in to that then?  I would not give a rat's ass about them.  And for those who do not know him <deleted> does he care? 

 

For those here on TV who are too stupid to see it was simply a reaction to what Unsworth tweeted to Musk I can only say you need psychological help. You  have serious issues.  Mental issues at a minimum.  I await your response with facts.  Try using them instead of making stuff up.

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3 hours ago, steve73 said:

I was expecting this comment to come from either sanemax or oldlackey  to be closely followed by Musk's reply.  ? 

Totally left-field in response to 815's comment which I thought was spot on. 

I try not to talk like that anymore chap as I have come out second a time or two with several of our illustrious moderators

Deservedly  so though I might add

 

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3 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Yes -- that was a Spell check hiccup. Jurisdiction. All I meant to say was that in California, given Mr. Unwsorth's statements on worldwide media, libel might not apply unless Mr. Unsworth can establish 'malice' in the legal sense.

Personally I think that proving malice would be extremely easy if the statement was made without justification, what other possible reason would somebody call somebody else a peadophile, especially if they didn't personally know the other person, somebody who is supposedly as intelligent as Musk is would know the implications of what he posted.

As mentioned by another poster, calling somebody a peadophile is an extremely loaded accusation and if it is without foundation, then it about as malign as they come.

Basically Musk seems to think that any male that comes or lives in Thailand is only here because they are a peadophile, he even bets a signed dollar that it is true.................

If he really had to retaliate, then he could have used far less offensive ways.

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‘’I can’t let it go’’.

 

Mate, newsflash, you started the badmouthing by telling him to stick his sub where it hurts. You did that in front of the entire world, and now you are butt hurt because you got something in return?! Not cool, man!

 

And on top of that you now go gold digging?!

 

I expected more of you!

 

By the way, I’m not condoning Musk’s words in any way, but my philosophy in life is: if you think you have to dish out, you better be able to take some, otherwise you best better not be dishing out in the first place. This guy just smells the money!

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57 minutes ago, Mattd said:

The damage is to his reputation, pure and simple.

Musk made a written statement accusing Vern of being a peadophile and unless he has the foundation to back that statement up, then it is libelous.

Vern made a verbal statement regarding the mini-sub, that doesn't damage Musk's personal reputation or businesses, unless he is going to go in to production with the mini subs?

Vern made his comments about a machine and Musk turned this in to a personal tirade, by attempting to tarnish Vern's reputation, to me that shows what type a person he is.

Vern's daughter may not believe it, but she does have to walk around with the knowledge that some people may wrongly see her Father as some kind of pedo / pervert, which then has an effect on her life, all because of some egotistical t@at who couldn't stop himself posting on tw@tter.

How is his reputation damaged if no one believes it?  Even if someone does believe it where is the damage?  I didn't know the guy before Musk made the statement so now I think he is Pedo because Musk says so (stupid me) and so what?  How is he damaged? He lost his rep to a person who doesn't even know him?  C'mon.  You can't be serious.  How many times in our youth or later on even has someone called someone a mfer in an arguement?  That has to be just as bad.  Big deal. Sticks and stones ......

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I think this is getting ridiculous - the ambulance chasers coming out in droves - Musk has publicly apologized - and it was actually Mr. Unsworth who insulted Mr. Musk on TV first - there was no need for this - Ridiculous childish behavior by both men - who are obviously professional in their field - but not so much when it comes to ego! I think they should shake hands and get over it.
No need to overshadow this amazing rescue with this negative childish behavior.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

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4 minutes ago, Mattd said:

Personally I think that proving malice would be extremely easy ...

There is a definition of 'malice' in California law and at Federal appellate cases that determine what is malice. It isn't subjective.

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8 hours ago, DinoSabanovic said:

To me this stupid. How can someone say something negative about the company and workers that work there and get away with it? And when it is responded to that accusation, get all frustrated and threaten to take legal actions. Musk responded and that was normal human reaction. The thing "pedo" is a bit much but I do understand him. 

 

Because their is a difference between a recognized world experts opinions and calling someone a vile criminal sex offender because you don't like those expert opinions.

 

Musk is a egotistical bully and deserves all the law throws at him for his unacceptable slur and defamation based purely on his desire to lash out.

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3 minutes ago, DJ54 said:

Was the “pedo” remark before or after the “shove it up his ass” remark.

If it goes to court it be on News everywhere. 

He reportedly said it all the same interview:

 

1. It was a PR stunt

2. The sub could not work and Musk knew it

3. He can shove it up where it hurts.  

 

All in the same interview. Geez, why so hostile to the guy. Why Musk on the other hand clearly was pissed at all this and probably responded without thinking.  

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13 minutes ago, DJ54 said:

Was the “pedo” remark before or after the “shove it up his ass” remark.

If it goes to court it be on News everywhere. 

After.

It is on the news everywhere even now, bear in mind though that Musk has now issued a formal apology. 

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1 minute ago, dufusdonald said:

How is his reputation damaged if no one believes it?  Even if someone does believe it where is the damage?  I didn't know the guy before Musk made the statement so now I think he is Pedo because Musk says so (stupid me) and so what?  How is he damaged? He lost his rep to a person who doesn't even know him?  C'mon.  You can't be serious.  How many times in our youth or later on even has someone called someone a mfer in an arguement?  That has to be just as bad.  Big deal. Sticks and stones ......

Oh dear, you really need to take a step back and take a look.

If you think that Musk can go on to Tw@tter, post whatever he likes about Vern, which is then freely available to all of his 22 million subscribers, this then gets reported in the worldwide press (who BTW are not exactly complimentary of Musk) and this all would have no damage to Vern's reputation, then you should think again.

The only thing I'd agree on is that the damage is retrospective to his fame, however, he does deserve some retribution.

3 minutes ago, dufusdonald said:

1. It was a PR stunt

2. The sub could not work and Musk knew it

3. He can shove it up where it hurts.  

 

All in the same interview. Geez, why so hostile to the guy.

1. The whole thing by Musk was in part a PR stunt, of this there is no doubt, Musk seized upon an opportunity, he may well have had some good intentions, but nobody can deny he milked it as best he could, meanwhile the real rescuers were getting on with the job in hand and were shunning publicity like the plague.

2. Given the circumstances at the time this statement is probably correct, impossible to say either way now, as those circumstances can never be replicated.

3. Look at this in another way, Vern and thousands of others were doing their absolute best to save lives and distractions were not needed, along comes Musk telling the whole world that he is going to save the kids, even gets a guided tour of the caves, likely getting in the way of the real rescue attempt, which was by this time under serious time constraints, wouldn't you be annoyed?

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2 hours ago, dufusdonald said:

So now because his daughter saw the tweet she thinks her dad is a Pedo?  How flucking stupid are people on this site?  And how has he been damaged other than his feelings? Musk has a daughter. Maybe she is upset this guy basically called her dad a fraud.

Here you go:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/teslas-musk-apologizes-for-his-comments-on-british-caver/ar-AAAeKfM?ocid=spartandhp

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6 hours ago, JLCrab said:

And none of that makes any difference unless it came to picking a jury.

When Musk's lawyers are assessing the value of the claim, they will, of course, look at how a jury would react. 

 

Calling someone a "pedo", without any proof, is going to be damn hard to justify anywhere, notwithstanding the impediments to bringing a defamation claim in the US.  This shouldn't surprise anyone, but if you falsely tweet to 20,000+ followers that someone is a sexual criminal, a pedo, without any proof, you have tremendous exposure even in California. 

 

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53 minutes ago, Mattd said:

Personally I think that proving malice would be extremely easy if the statement was made without justification, what other possible reason would somebody call somebody else a peadophile, especially if they didn't personally know the other person, somebody who is supposedly as intelligent as Musk is would know the implications of what he posted.

As mentioned by another poster, calling somebody a peadophile is an extremely loaded accusation and if it is without foundation, then it about as malign as they come.

You are absolutely right.  I will see if I can somehow post the video clip, but in LA that asked a panel of prominent lawyers and a retired judge if Musk would win or lose a defamation case, and they all agreed he would likely lose, but disagreed about the amount of damages.

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This article says pretty much the same thing:

 

http://rightcoast.typepad.com/rightcoast/2018/07/cave-rescue-hero-yes-ill-probably-sue-musk-for-calling-me-a-pedo.html

 

He makes statements as to 'public person' and malice -- I don't know that Musk's lawyers, if it comes to that, would necessarily agree.

 

... and maybe the issued public apology was constructed with that in mind.

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