British caver says he approached by U.S., British lawyers over Musk's comments

[Jonmarleesco]

12 hours ago, webfact said:

Asked why he thought Musk would make such a comment about him, he said: "I don't know."

Probably because Musk was incensed that his 'expertise' should have been rejected. And because he isn't sufficiently mature to accept that and move on. 

[ttrd]

9 hours ago, DinoSabanovic said:

To me this stupid. How can someone say something negative about the company and workers that work there and get away with it? And when it is responded to that accusation, get all frustrated and threaten to take legal actions. Musk responded and that was normal human reaction. The thing "pedo" is a bit much but I do understand him. 

Yes, one thing took the other and was unfortunately blown up and out of proposition - my guess is that the balloon filled with emotional helium will soon run empty…..

[GroveHillWanderer]

1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

Yes -- that was a Spell check hiccup. Jurisdiction. All I meant to say was that in California, given Mr. Unwsorth's statements on worldwide media, libel might not apply unless Mr. Unsworth can establish 'malice' in the legal sense.

However, as a few people have said, if Unsworth were to choose to sue Musk in England, the law is quite different.

 

Under English defamation law, a person can sue for libel over any published statements which would cause a reasonable person to think worse of them. In England, a defamatory statement is presumed to be false, unless the defendant can prove its truth. A private individual (as distinct  from a public official or public figure) must only prove the defendant did not exercise due care, to collect compensatory damages. It is only in order to collect punitive damages, that private individuals must prove actual malice.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2013/26/contents/enacted

 

Also, a lot of people are making a false equivalence between Unsworth's and Musk's statements. Unsworth said something about the mini submarine which may or may not be true and is almost certainly allowable under the 'fair comment' section of English defamation law (i.e. the statement was a view that a reasonable person could have held). He also made another statement that while it was both rude and something quite a few people would consider offensive, would be unlikely to fall afoul of the defamation law in either the US or England, as far as I can tell. 

 

On the other hand, Musk's statements implying that Unsworth is a paedophile and that he would bet money on this being true are personally defamatory and I think could very easily be used as a basis for a libel lawsuit in England.

 

Edit: I am not suggesting that Unsworth should sue, just that he would be more easily able to do so under English Law which puts the burden of proof on the defendant.

 

[Commercial Diver]

Don’t do it .. 

[Commercial Diver]

Let it go 

[JLCrab]

31 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

<snip>

Edit: I am not suggesting that Unsworth should sue, just that he would be more easily able to do so under English Law which puts the burden of proof on the defendant.

 

Sure but collecting on a UK judgment might not be so easy.

[ttrd]

28 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Sure but collecting on a UK judgment might not be so easy.

Should be pretty easy as they sell both Tesla cars and Tesla parts in the UK - from a Muddy Cave in Thailand on a motorbike to a free Tesla Model S Ridiculous P100D and a trunk full of New spareparts could be something in exchange especially if we add a lifetime of free charging...

[JLCrab]

3 minutes ago, ttrd said:

Should be pretty easy as they sell both Tesla cars and Tesla parts in the UK - from a Muddy Cave in Thailand on a motorbike to a free Tesla Model S Ridiculous P100D and a trunk full of New spareparts could be something in exchange...

A  judgment -- if any -- would be against Mr. Musk personally and not against Tesla, or SpaceX or any other corporration controlled in part by Mr. Musk

[ttrd]

1 minute ago, JLCrab said:

A  judgment -- if any -- would be against Mr. Musk personally and not against Tesla, or SpaceX or any other corporration controlled in part by Mr. Musk

Clearly as the day - My input was meant as a fun break to an otherwise dark setting...

[Britannia]

I rarely comment on Thai visa, and I believe in compassion and forgiveness, But here I feel like: Take him to the cleaners, his Ego got well out of control. This Guy served with a good heart for others, that is worth more than all Musk's Billions

 

 

 

[ravip]

Elon Musk apologises for his Twitter comments on British caver

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/105589457/Elon-Musk-apologises-for-his-Twitter-comments-on-British-caver

 

[Chongalulu]

10 hours ago, kannot said:

Its  pretty clear to any sane person he isnt a paedophile his life wont be ruined it will be even more respected and even more so if  he  just lets it go

He will still be respected and certainly a lot richer too if he sues.

[Stuart21]

9 minutes ago, Britannia said:

This Guy served with a good heart for others

 

 

 

That was the motive on both sides. The fog of war resulted in gross miscommunication.

[JLCrab]

4 minutes ago, nchuckle said:

He will still be respected and certainly a lot richer too if he sues.

That is if he wins -- whether he sues or not, I would guess that the Musk legal team is in full gear preparing in case that he does.

[JLCrab]

24 minutes ago, ttrd said:

Clearly as the day - My input was meant as a fun break to an otherwise dark setting...

Well OK but enough ridiculous stuff posted in here so I missed it. 

[Sheryl]

9 minutes ago, nchuckle said:

He will still be respected and certainly a lot richer too if he sues.

He will have to go through a LOT if hassle and unpleasantness, for months at least, before a suit gets resolved and I suspect he does not want that, I know I wouldn't.   I also doubt he wants to make money out of this, just wanted a retraction of the baseless and libelous accusation.

 

Unfortunately the apology issued by Musk falls short of a real retraction.  But perhaps it can suffice.

 

 

[JLCrab]

The apology issued by Mr. Musk was very carefully worded in the context of possible legal action by Mr. Unsworth.

[jgarbo]

15 hours ago, rwdrwdrwd said:

Go with the US ones, they will sting him a lot harder, half a million US is the going rate for libel, and that's without a gobby unlikeable billionaire being involved.

Musk is on record, undeniable libel. Demand USD 100,000 contribution to Muu Baa team facilities. Over.

[wvavin]

I thought I have commented that this caver continued talking and now he still talks but no action again!

[tingtongtourist]

1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

The apology issued by Mr. Musk was very carefully worded in the context of possible legal action by Mr. Unsworth.

yes said with the minimum it needs to be actually called an apology.

and that he did not mentioned any sorry for calling him a pedo, simply means it us worded so he is not admitting any guilt.

 

not good enough

 

So IMO- sue the สrse off him Vern

 

[thailand49]

12 hours ago, Mattd said:

No contradiction, the interviews were afterwards and not really publicity seeking.

Whereas Musk came in, Hey look at me and what I can do.

If he REALLY wanted to save the boys and nothing else, then he could have certainly done it with a lot less fanfare.

Whether the interview was before or after isn't the real point the point is he did them and fire the first shot when it was not even necessary. So what he was looking for PR, that is his business what does it have to do with him or maybe he was upset or even jealous it took the attention away from him?

Guys like Musk, think money only I have no idea whether he wanted to save the boys or not but for sure he got the attention he wanted plus more from the Brit.

Personally, the greatest pressure is going to come from the Tesla Board, as you know the stock has dropped like 2 billion in 48hours, as I noted it is all about money and now Musk is in the hot seat with the Board. If he is removed it will be a huge embarrassment for him but he will walk away still with millions and continue getting millions. A guy with this type of ego and stubborn, vindictive, will go after the Brit with all he's got and go through his life with a fine comb, his relative, his ex-wife, his kids, and all his friends he associated with at home and Thailand. Believe me, they will find something if not they will make it up because everyone on this earth has skeletons in their closets!  If he is a man of principal and has the fight in him I say good luck but he is going to get crushed and someone close to him will do more suffering than him.

The best for him is the Board of Tesla don't want him to step down but have him shut his mouth, let the lawyers do the work and quiet this down and slip the Brit 500 to 2 million and be happy he was called a Pedo! He can live it up after he converts to Baht.  For that type of money, Musk can call me <deleted> he wants because I know it isn't true it just words and then shows me the money$$$$

 

 

[sanemax]

4 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

Whether the interview was before or after isn't the real point the point is he did them and fire the first shot when it was not even necessary. So what he was looking for PR, that is his business what does it have to do with him or maybe he was upset or even jealous it took the attention away from him?

Got like Musk, think money only I have no idea whether he wanted to save the boys or not but for sure he got the attention he wanted plus more from the Brit.

Personally, the greatest pressure is going to come from the Tesla Board, as you know the stock has dropped like 2 billion in 48hours, as I noted it is all about money and now Musk is in the hot seat with the Board. If he is removed it will be a huge embarrassment for him but he will walk away still with millions and continue getting millions. A guy with this type of ego and stubborn, vindictive, will go after the Brit with all he's got and go through his life with a fine comb, his relative, his ex-wife, his kids, and all his friends he associated with at home and Thailand. Believe me, they will find something if not they will make it up because everyone on this earth has skeletons in their closets!  If he is a man of principal and has the fight in him I say good luck but he is going to get crushed and someone close to him will do more suffering than him.

The best for him is the Board of Tesla don't want him to step down but have him shut his mouth, let the lawyers do the work and quiet this down and slip the Brit 500 to 2 million and be happy he was called a Pedo! He can live it up after he converts to Baht.  For that type of money, Musk can call me what the <deleted>> he wants because I know it isn't true it just words and then shows me the money$$$$

 

 

Money money money$$$$$$.............money money money $$$$$$$$

 

[thailand49]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

Money money money$$$$$$.............money money money $$$$$$$$

 

You know what they say, no money no honey!

[dufusdonald]

13 hours ago, pookiki said:

Clearly Musk's statement was unwarranted and ill conceived.  However, all this talk about running to lawyers and filing  charges for 'libel' only reinforce the already oppressive legal environment in most SE Asian countries over libel and slander.  The standards in the US for prevailing in such suits - even if there are such laws on the books are much different. Musk has already made an ass of himself, nothing else can really be accomplished.  Suck it up and get on with life.

Right, unlike Mr U who told Musk to stick his sub up his ass. A lot of British apologists and sages on this site.

[Hank Gunn]

11 hours ago, toofarnorth said:

I am having a similar thought to your last paragraph.

 

If Musk is publicly found guilty to his comment to Vern he has the power to send someone to C/Rai to see where Vern eats/drinks then give a local kid a 1000B to go up to Vern and plant a kiss on him ( just a horrid example ) while another kid takes a photo then it starts all over again.  Nasty thought but I would not put it past Musk to try and clear his name.

Your accusation there is far more libelous than Musk's, heat in the moment comment.

 

People here really need to read Dustdevil's posts on this thread (posts nos. 93 & 97 on p.7) to understand how difficult it would be to actually be successful in litigating this.

[dufusdonald]

4 minutes ago, Hank Gunn said:

Your accusation there is far more libelous than Musk's, heat in the moment comment.

 

People here really need to read Dustdevil's posts on this thread (posts nos. 93 & 97 on p.7) to understand how difficult it would be to actually be successful in litigating this.

If Unsworth files a lawsuit he is gonna get one in return. He slandered Musk with his comments in front of the whole world. Millions of people know Musk. Does anybody know Unsworth? Whose reputation is likely to suffer more financially?  Clearly Musk's.  

[FritsSikkink]

6 hours ago, dufusdonald said:

No, I don't.  And it wasn't me who called the guy a Pedo.  I won't insult you because you can't read.  It was Musk.  Your definition of ïdiot" is what?  So now you call Musk an "idiot"?  Compared to who? You? Really? What have you accomplished in your life?  Musk may be many things but ïdiot"is not one of them. Foolish, arrogant, a pompus ass fine but idiot, no.  Shows you are biased.  My latest tested IQ was 125. Can't remember where that stacks up. My sister belongs to Mensa.  Or whatever it's called.  

 

But it's ok for you to libel Musk here on TV and you want me to take you seriously? haha .  Gee, maybe he has a daughter who will read you called him an idiot and she may need psychological help the rest of her life because of what you wrote. My God sir have some class. 

 

And just how did I defame Mr Unsworth my friend?  Do your best to point it out to me.  How many people even know this guy? Those who do know him always suspected he was a Pedo did they?  And now they know for sure cause Musk tweeted it out?  Again I have to ask how stupid are these folks who buy in to that then?  I would not give a rat's ass about them.  And for those who do not know him <deleted> does he care? 

 

For those here on TV who are too stupid to see it was simply a reaction to what Unsworth tweeted to Musk I can only say you need psychological help. You  have serious issues.  Mental issues at a minimum.  I await your response with facts.  Try using them instead of making stuff up.

"My latest tested IQ was 125"

Probably on a FB test, if you don't know Mensa.

BTW mine is 136 on a proper test.

[jerry921]

How can anyone not see that calling someone a pedo harms that person's reputation, whether it is a credible accusation or not? That position is perhaps logical to pedos, but I believe most fair-minded individuals will suspect that position has been advanced for reasons other than serious belief.

[Chongalulu]

3 hours ago, JLCrab said:

That is if he wins -- whether he sues or not, I would guess that the Musk legal team is in full gear preparing in case that he does.

There are plenty of lawyers offering their services on a no win no fee such is the strength of his case (unsubstantiated allegation of being a paedophile) . Musk's lawyers would settle out of court.

[dufusdonald]

37 minutes ago, jerry921 said:

How can anyone not see that calling someone a pedo harms that person's reputation, whether it is a credible accusation or not? That position is perhaps logical to pedos, but I believe most fair-minded individuals will suspect that position has been advanced for reasons other than serious belief.

This is ridiculous. What is a "reputation"?  It's simply what someone else thinks about you. Soo, before Musk called him a Pedo his only reputation was with people who knew him. He had no reputation with anyone who did not know him.  And the people who know him I assume do not think he is a Pedo; therefore, he has not suffered any loss.  One could also make a case (in the US at least) that since he went on CNN he became a "pubic figure".  Very difficult to libel or slander a public figure. Free speech and all that.

 

Someone could call Trump an Orangutan and get away with it. In fact someone did just that more or less.  Plus the fact that unless someone states they have proof that he is a Pedo it would obviously just be an "opinion".  Now, if Britain doesn't have free speech laws things may be different. 

 

I hope he does sue Musk just to see if he has a case.  And then I hope Musk sues him to see if he has a case.