UK to warn public every week over 'no-deal Brexit': The Times

[Chomper Higgot]

Brexiteers voted to leave the EU without any idea of how that would be acheived, no plan and fingers in their ears to warnings of the difficulties ahead.

 

Why would anyone expect them to understand the Government preparing the public for the hard Brexit so many Brexiters have Been baying at the moon for?

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, geriatrickid said:

It was always going to be a hard exit. It's just that no one on the pro brexit side wanted to discuss it. There will be benefits, but they will come later and after some  very hard times. Unfortunately, in today's world, people will not accept  hardship for a few years. On the other hand, the screwing over of the UK by the parasites of the EU like Belgium , Romania and Luxembourg could not continue.

What are those benefits?

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, geriatrickid said:

It was always going to be a hard exit. It's just that no one on the pro brexit side wanted to discuss it. There will be benefits, but they will come later and after some  very hard times. Unfortunately, in today's world, people will not accept  hardship for a few years. On the other hand, the screwing over of the UK by the parasites of the EU like Belgium , Romania and Luxembourg could not continue.

Where do you get this idea that ‘in today's world, people will not accept  hardship for a few years.’?

 

Sure they shouldn’t have to on the basis of the lies told by a bunch of old Etonians and hedge fund managers.

 

I wonder how much you personally will suffer as you advocate playing nationalist games with the jobs and prosperity of others?

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, zaphod reborn said:

In America, the courts have set up standards and requirements with respect to referendums and issues of succession.  The Brexit vote was inherently flawed because it provided no direction as to how the government was supposed to handle issues of trade and governance post-Brexit.  That's why Brexit will fail, because no one knows whether it was supposed to be a hard-Brexit or soft-Brexit.

The words hard and soft did not appear on the ballot paper and were only used by remainers once the shock of losing passed (slightly). The EU is not the US and the UK is not a state of the US. No comparison. 

[zaphod reborn]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

The words hard and soft did not appear on the ballot paper and were only used by remainers once the shock of losing passed (slightly). The EU is not the US and the UK is not a state of the US. No comparison. 

The countries share a reliance on common law, although there is more statutory law in the US.  The UK Parliament has almost no experience in drafting referendums and failed miserably in doing so.  Live with it.

[JackScarlett]

The difference of opinion on Brexit on TVF is very much a replica of the opinions of the electorate in UK  but I would suggest all hours spent on the keyboard by contributors here - apart from allowing freedom of speech which is a very much valued part of a truly democratic process  - is a wasted effort.

 

We are leaving the EU full stop.   How we do it is another matter and the EU has not made it easy and have been assisted by the UK dragging its feet and in doing so have succeeded in alienating the British Public.

 

The PMs plan which is a fudge but an honest one meant with the best of intentions to try to protect the jobs of the many.  However that plan has not been accepted by the British Public with a poll out today showing that 38%  would now support a right wing party who would get on with ensuring a clean break and 24% would be prepared to support an explicitly far right wing party that is anti immigrant and anti islamic with Labour remaining on around 40% and the Tories down to the 36% mark.   Coupled with this is the increase in UKIPs membership over the last two weeks.   This message will not be lost - hopefully - on Downing Street and as Mr Barnier has savaged her plan, it is as Boris said 'not to late to change direction'.    We were offered a Canada plus deal by the EU in the early part of the year and in an explosive article today by David Davis he has laid bare his thoughts and is calling for a Canada Plus Plus deal.    Dominic Robb - referred to by Davis as 'my boy' in his article - and who replaced him, has told the EU that they will not get the 40 billion plus they think they are going to get if there is no deal, and that will not go down well with the Eastern States EU members if they think they will be penalised by money not forthcoming as was planned for their many projects.

 

I still believe there will be a deal but not on the current plan proposed by the PM.    The lawmakers in Parliament who want a break from the EU will I believe, support a Canada style deal as will about seven Labour MPs and I think all the so-called 'rebels' i.e Ann a Soubray plus others would not vote against such a deal.

 

By the way a previous poster has quoted an inflated trade figure with the EU, whereas in actuality 

the figure was 44% of UK trade being with the EU - not 60% -  that was cited a lot during the EU Referendum and it's actually a 2015 figure just for exports of goods and services. The 2016 figure was 43%, worth about £241bn, and it has indeed fallen from about 54%in 2006.

 

Let's hope that on her walking holiday the PM has a change of heart after considering all the facts and can continue to lead the Party - a change of support by me because as angry as I was when I read the original plan, I have no wish to see Jeremy Corbyn in Downing Street - but if she is adamant that she is going to stick to her chequers 'fudge' then I believe come the Autumn, the UK will have a new PM, be he/she who will be either Conservative or Labour.

 

 

[stevenl]

" How we do it is another matter and the EU has not made it easy and have been assisted by the UK dragging its feet and in doing so have succeeded in alienating the British Public. "

 

Disagree with this part. The EU has been very clear what is wants and how, it is the UK that is the primary culprit by not knowing how to proceed, until very recently. And even that is still not clear and attacked and changed continuously. Therefor it is not the EU that should be to blame for alienating the British public, but the UK, for a big part by trying to blame the EU for the UK problems.

[nauseus]

5 hours ago, zaphod reborn said:

The countries share a reliance on common law, although there is more statutory law in the US.  The UK Parliament has almost no experience in drafting referendums and failed miserably in doing so.  Live with it.

Still no comparison. Live with it. We will. 

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, JackScarlett said:

The difference of opinion on Brexit on TVF is very much a replica of the opinions of the electorate in UK  but I would suggest all hours spent on the keyboard by contributors here - apart from allowing freedom of speech which is a very much valued part of a truly democratic process  - is a wasted effort.

 

We are leaving the EU full stop.   How we do it is another matter and the EU has not made it easy and have been assisted by the UK dragging its feet and in doing so have succeeded in alienating the British Public.

 

The PMs plan which is a fudge but an honest one meant with the best of intentions to try to protect the jobs of the many.  However that plan has not been accepted by the British Public with a poll out today showing that 38%  would now support a right wing party who would get on with ensuring a clean break and 24% would be prepared to support an explicitly far right wing party that is anti immigrant and anti islamic with Labour remaining on around 40% and the Tories down to the 36% mark.   Coupled with this is the increase in UKIPs membership over the last two weeks.   This message will not be lost - hopefully - on Downing Street and as Mr Barnier has savaged her plan, it is as Boris said 'not to late to change direction'.    We were offered a Canada plus deal by the EU in the early part of the year and in an explosive article today by David Davis he has laid bare his thoughts and is calling for a Canada Plus Plus deal.    Dominic Robb - referred to by Davis as 'my boy' in his article - and who replaced him, has told the EU that they will not get the 40 billion plus they think they are going to get if there is no deal, and that will not go down well with the Eastern States EU members if they think they will be penalised by money not forthcoming as was planned for their many projects.

 

I still believe there will be a deal but not on the current plan proposed by the PM.    The lawmakers in Parliament who want a break from the EU will I believe, support a Canada style deal as will about seven Labour MPs and I think all the so-called 'rebels' i.e Ann a Soubray plus others would not vote against such a deal.

 

By the way a previous poster has quoted an inflated trade figure with the EU, whereas in actuality 

the figure was 44% of UK trade being with the EU - not 60% -  that was cited a lot during the EU Referendum and it's actually a 2015 figure just for exports of goods and services. The 2016 figure was 43%, worth about £241bn, and it has indeed fallen from about 54%in 2006.

 

Let's hope that on her walking holiday the PM has a change of heart after considering all the facts and can continue to lead the Party - a change of support by me because as angry as I was when I read the original plan, I have no wish to see Jeremy Corbyn in Downing Street - but if she is adamant that she is going to stick to her chequers 'fudge' then I believe come the Autumn, the UK will have a new PM, be he/she who will be either Conservative or Labour.

 

 

Fair post Jack - hope your effort was not wasted! ?

[nontabury]

10 hours ago, stevenl said:

With the referendum people didn't know what exactly they were voting for, and you now propose to keep them uninformed.

It is one of the government's jobs to make sure people know what is going to happen and give them a chance to prepare.

The government in 1973 and 1975,definitely did not inform the electorate, of the intentions of the Bureaucrats in Brussels. Come 2016 we had the benefits of mass communication, and were therefore far better informed.

And we decided we had had enough, this in spite of all the pro E.U propaganda that we were subjected to by the government of the day, plus that from the biased media.

[JackScarlett]

'How we do it is another matter and the EU has not made it easy and have been assisted by the UK dragging its feet and in doing so have succeeded in alienating the British Public'.

 

For the avoidance of any doubt let me try to clarify the above comment made by myself in an earlier post.

 

My intention was not to place the blame at the door of the EU although reading David Davies article today, it is hard not to see they have been somewhat intransigent, but that was their negotiating strategy.   However I do hold the UK government responsible for not having an agreed position before triggering  Article 50.     Article 50 should have waited until a later date.

Responsibility must ultimately rest with the PM, albeit I am sure the Senior Whitehall Mandarins played a large part in the decision making process.

 

[bristolboy]

3 hours ago, nauseus said:

Fair post Jack - hope your effort was not wasted! ?

Another 12% of the UK's exports are with nations that have free trade agreements with the EU.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

The government in 1973 and 1975,definitely did not inform the electorate, of the intentions of the Bureaucrats in Brussels. Come 2016 we had the benefits of mass communication, and were therefore far better informed.

And we decided we had had enough, this in spite of all the pro E.U propaganda that we were subjected to by the government of the day, plus that from the biased media.

The point of my post was: government has the duty to inform people of things that are happening. 

Your post is about the past, so much so it is not worth it correcting the contents.

[Chomper Higgot]

Brexiteers rant against U.K. Government giving the public warnings of hard Brexit while in the meantime Brexiteer’s darling Rees-Mogg places his bets against the U.K.:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/22/jacob-rees-mogg-second-irish-fund-scm

[3NUMBAS]

it was always going to be WTO rules as EU wont allow anything contrary to their rules

[Chomper Higgot]

8 hours ago, 3NUMBAS said:

it was always going to be WTO rules as EU wont allow anything contrary to their rules

Or it will be EU rules. (that the UK played such an active role in establishing).

[bristolboy]

Brexit: Dominic Raab under fire over claim that Bank study shows no deal outcome 'worse for EU'

 

The Brexit department admitted to The Independent that the Bank’s analysis referred only to one aspect of financial services – not to each side’s overall economic performance.

The embarrassing concession sparked accusations that Mr Raab was trying to keep voters in the dark about the impact of crashing out of the EU without a deal.

The row blew up after he refused to explain the no-deal planning the government is making – despite insisting the UK would “thrive” in those circumstances.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dominic-raab-no-deal-brexit-bank-of-england-claims-mark-carney-international-monetary-fund-a8459021.html

 

[The Renegade]

On 7/20/2018 at 2:08 PM, webfact said:

UK to warn public every week over 'no-deal Brexit': The Times

It does not seem to be working ??

 

If polls are to be believed

 

Quote

Prime Minister Theresa May’s plans to leave the European Union are overwhelmingly opposed by the British public and more than a third of voters would support a new right-wing political party committed to quitting the bloc, according to a new poll.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-poll/british-reject-mays-brexit-plan-some-turn-to-boris-and-far-right-poll-idUSKBN1KC0EU

 

Will PM May take the hint or will the knives be out between now and the Tory Party conference ?

 

Taxi for May

[bristolboy]

5 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

It does not seem to be working ??

 

If polls are to be believed

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-poll/british-reject-mays-brexit-plan-some-turn-to-boris-and-far-right-poll-idUSKBN1KC0EU

 

Will PM May take the hint or will the knives be out between now and the Tory Party conference ?

 

Taxi for May

Nice misleading piece of cherry picking. I notice you didn't cite this little nugget from the article:

"Half of voters would support remaining in the EU if there were a second referendum, the poll found, a level of support found in other surveys this year."

[The Renegade]

On 7/20/2018 at 2:08 PM, webfact said:

UK to warn public every week over 'no-deal Brexit': The Times

The MSM are clearly trying their best to assist ??

 

Quote

Women in the UK risk losing hard-won equality and human rights protections, including employment rights and funding for women’s services, when the UK leaves the EU, according to the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHCR).

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2018/jul/23/womens-rights-under-threat-after-brexit-warns-ehcr-report

 

And here was me thinking that Human Rights were International standards, not EU Standards.

 

Quote

The head of Amazon in the UK has said that there could be “civil unrest” within two weeks if Britain leaves the European Union with no deal.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/no-deal-on-brexit-risks-civil-unrest-says-amazon-s-uk-chief-doug-gurr-9czth6d7w

 

I hope that Mr Gurr is going to be interviewed under caution today, for using language that is likely to promote civil unrest.

[stevenl]

27 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

It does not seem to be working ??

 

If polls are to be believed

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-poll/british-reject-mays-brexit-plan-some-turn-to-boris-and-far-right-poll-idUSKBN1KC0EU

 

Will PM May take the hint or will the knives be out between now and the Tory Party conference ?

 

Taxi for May

1. Cherry picking.

2. The news paper articles are about the consequences of Brexit, nothing to do with yes or no Brexit.

[bristolboy]

12 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

The MSM are clearly trying their best to assist ??

 

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2018/jul/23/womens-rights-under-threat-after-brexit-warns-ehcr-report

 

And here was me thinking that Human Rights were International standards, not EU Standards.

 

 

You really have to get out more.

Or are you saying that the UK subscribes to International Standards which are lower than EU standards? And that's okay?

[whatsupdoc]

Does the UK really think they are equals to the EU or even have more power?

Mrs. May keeps pushing her Chequers plan even though it must be obvious to everybody that is not in the interest of the EU and thus unacceptable.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/23/theresa-may-takes-chequers-brexit-roadshow-north-east

 

Furthermore, the EU has indicated they are not going to extend the article 50 deadline unless there is a major change in circumstances (new election or new referendum).

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/22/article-50-extension-unlikely-without-shift-in-uk-politics-say-eu-officials

 

If the UK want to avoid a no-deal they should concentrate on the Withdrawal Agreement and a solution for the Irish border. To keep pushing the Chequers plan only makes a chaotic no-deal scenario more likely.

[JackScarlett]

58 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Nice misleading piece of cherry picking. I notice you didn't cite this little nugget from the article:

"Half of voters would support remaining in the EU if there were a second referendum, the poll found, a level of support found in other surveys this year."

Perhaps you would like the best of three referendums.    It ain't going to happen anytime soon.   Get over it, we are leaving.

 

I have never been a fan of the PM - as Ken Clarke once said 'a bloody difficult woman' - but because I don't want Jeremy Corbyn and his cronies in Downing Street, I believe support by the Conservative Party should be given to her, but there has to be a condition, and that is given the general consensus is that the Chequers 'fudge' is dead in the water both from the electorate and the EU, she has to realise she is heading down a 'cul-de-sac' which I am sure she does but will not admit to it and change direction.   A failure to do this will ensure that anything she presents to Parliament in October based on the Chequers plan will be voted down by a combination of the ERG members, Labour Front Bench and a few Labour members.

 

If she continues to insist on her plan, the Tories will be wiped out at the next General Election,

[sandyf]

14 hours ago, JackScarlett said:

My intention was not to place the blame at the door of the EU although reading David Davies article today, it is hard not to see they have been somewhat intransigent, but that was their negotiating strategy. 

 

How can the EU be described as intransigent when their response is generally dictated by an EU treaty.

Article 50 allows for a negotiated arrangement on the administrative issues of leaving the EU, never intended to amend the workings of the EU.

TM continues to try and circumvent the requirements of these treaties and then blames the EU when she hits the brick wall.

A classic example is goods and services, as far as the EU is concerned they are bound together under the Single Market Act, and for what they consider to be a very good reason. Why on earth should they go against the agreed policy of EU member states to provide greater benefit to a state that wants to leave.

Obviously there are those that think they should, those that want to take "ambitious" to a whole new level.

[The Renegade]

Quote

Nice misleading piece of cherry picking. I notice you didn't cite this little nugget from the article:

"Half of voters would support remaining in the EU if there were a second referendum, the poll found, a level of support found in other surveys this year."

Isn't it interesting the amount of moot and invalid points some people go to great lengths to try and promote.

 

A 2nd Referendum has been ruled out, so until / unless that changes, any polls, opinions and howling at the moon about a 2nd Referendum are wasted.

[bristolboy]

Just now, The Renegade said:

Isn't interesting the amount of moot and invalid points some people go to great lengths to try and promote.

 

A 2nd Referendum has been ruled out, so until / unless that changes, any polls, opinions and howling at the moon about a 2nd Referendum are wasted.

Who is in a position to definitively rule it out? And you don't seem bothered that the question you cited as some kind of evidence was an entirely hypothetical one. 

It's even more interesting that "more than a third" seems significant to you but 1/2 does not.

[sandyf]

TM is at it again, the urge to bypass the system must be in her DNA.

 

Cabinet ministers will be sent across Europe to try to rescue Theresa May’s Chequers plan for Brexit after its savaging by the EU’s negotiator.

Direct talks will be held with key politicians of EU countries, as the prime minister steps up attempts to bypass opposition to her proposals in the European Commission.

The move comes after the negotiations hit a fresh wall when Michel Barnier, the EU’s Brexit coordinator, warned aspects of the UK’s plan were impractical or even illegal.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-chequers-plan-theresa-may-michel-barnier-eu-uk-commission-ministers-a8458126.html

[sandyf]

Looks like a large number of global businesses did not need any warning.

 

Brexit threatens the UK’s position as a world leading centre for companies to resolve legal disputes, with 35 per cent of businesses saying they have changed their contracts so that issues are heard in courts elsewhere, according to new research.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-companies-move-contracts-english-courts-jurisdiction-eu-referendum-thomson-reuters-a8458436.html

[The Renegade]

23 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Cabinet ministers will be sent across Europe to try to rescue Theresa May’s Chequers plan for Brexit after its savaging by the EU’s negotiator.

She would be better off sending a team of dead ducks.

 

Her Chequers White Bog Roll is not wanted in the UK or by the EU.

 

Quote

Prime Minister Theresa May’s plans to leave the European Union are overwhelmingly opposed by the British public 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-poll/british-reject-mays-brexit-plan-some-turn-to-boris-and-far-right-poll-idUSKBN1KC0EU

 

The only plan that will be acceptable to the EU is the plan that keeps the UK under the thumb of Brussels, under the control of the ECJ and for £Billions to keep flowing into the EU from the UK.

 

As this in no way constitutes leaving the EU. it is time to cut the waffle, drop all pretend negotiations and tell the EU WTO rules start on 29 March 2019.