Thai Wife NON O Visa - Eligible to work?

[greenmonkey]

Okay, I am a British expat married to Thai wife and have NON O visa (and have had for 3 or 4 years now). Can anyone tell me - am I allowed to work in Thailand with this visa? And if so, in what capacity and what type of job? Am I legally allowed to work for myself (online for example)? Thanks in advance...

[ubonjoe]

You can get a work permit and work with a non-o visa or extension of stay based upon marriage to a Thai.

You can do any type of work as long as it is not on the restricted professions list.

It you and your wife set up a partnership or company you could get a work permit to work online legally. 

[Bredbury Blue]

If you and your wife went down the opening a thai company, then i understand that you only need to employ 2 thais to get your work permit (usually its minimum 4:1) so that could me your wife and one other, and you only need b1m paidup capital (usually  it's  b2m).

[anon4637435435]

if your planning on helping out your wife/family with her buis and dont technically get paid or any such thing your allowed to work in any profession she does. its like helping out. my wife runs a farm now as shes always wanted to to do for some strange reason.... Ive had immigration out to check thanks to xenophobic neighbours trying to cause trouble and they said im allowed to do whatever. i operate heavy machinery and do agriculture which are both not normally allowed. If your going out of the family unit to get a pay check youll need a permit.

my wife and i tried to set up a company years ago when living in phuket. the officials never processed a dam thing and sat around waiting for bribes obviously so we scraped the idea and told the thais we wont be employing them as a result. i would never bother again and we are basically retired now anyway.

youve got the non o visa so when doing your reporting or visa runs just talk to immigration. weve always done so because we are sort of paranoid that i will be set up and have been on a couple occasions but ive never done anything wrong.

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, Bredbury Blue said:

If you and your wife went down the opening a thai company, then i understand that you only need to employ 2 thais to get your work permit (usually its minimum 4:1) so that could me your wife and one other, and you only need b1m paidup capital (usually  it's  b2m).

If the company is in the name of the wife, which would be easiest, she can not be one of the employees.

[stevenl]

51 minutes ago, bsdthai said:

if your planning on helping out your wife/family with her buis and dont technically get paid or any such thing your allowed to work in any profession she does. its like helping out. my wife runs a farm now as shes always wanted to to do for some strange reason.... Ive had immigration out to check thanks to xenophobic neighbours trying to cause trouble and they said im allowed to do whatever. i operate heavy machinery and do agriculture which are both not normally allowed. If your going out of the family unit to get a pay check youll need a permit.

my wife and i tried to set up a company years ago when living in phuket. the officials never processed a dam thing and sat around waiting for bribes obviously so we scraped the idea and told the thais we wont be employing them as a result. i would never bother again and we are basically retired now anyway.

youve got the non o visa so when doing your reporting or visa runs just talk to immigration. weve always done so because we are sort of paranoid that i will be set up and have been on a couple occasions but ive never done anything wrong.

Glad it is working out for you, but your post is incorrect in many ways. Also, it is not up to immigration but to the labour office.

[elviajero]

15 hours ago, greenmonkey said:

Okay, I am a British expat married to Thai wife and have NON O visa (and have had for 3 or 4 years now). Can anyone tell me - am I allowed to work in Thailand with this visa? And if so, in what capacity and what type of job? Am I legally allowed to work for myself (online for example)? Thanks in advance...

Yes you can work with that “visa”,but not until you have a work permit.

 

To get a work permit you need to be formally employed by a company legally operating in Thailand. You and your wife could set up in business together, but the work you can do must be approved by labour office issuing the work permit.

 

You can’t legally work online without permission which you won’t get unless, again, you’re employed by a business operating in Thailand. Many foreigners work online at home and don’t disclose the fact to the authorities.

 

Being married doesn’t give you any right to work; it just means you don’t need a non ‘B’ category visa to apply for a work permit.

[elviajero]

10 hours ago, stevenl said:

If the company is in the name of the wife, which would be easiest, she can not be one of the employees.

There’s nothing stopping the wife being one of the employees.

[elviajero]

11 hours ago, bsdthai said:

if your planning on helping out your wife/family with her buis and dont technically get paid or any such thing your allowed to work in any profession she does. its like helping out. my wife runs a farm now as shes always wanted to to do for some strange reason.... Ive had immigration out to check thanks to xenophobic neighbours trying to cause trouble and they said im allowed to do whatever. i operate heavy machinery and do agriculture which are both not normally allowed.

Nothing you describe is allowed by law. The local authorities may turn a blind eye to a husband helping out his wife, but that is in no way guaranteed.

[anon4637435435]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

Nothing you describe is allowed by law. The local authorities may turn a blind eye to a husband helping out his wife, but that is in no way guaranteed.

Please quote the law here for all concerned.

There is no "specific" law regarding this as far as I'm aware therefore there cant be enforcement.

All the authorities in the area are aware of us even building our own house with our bare hands because we wanted to. Its an interest of ours to do so and theres no laws saying farang cant do what they want.

The scenario is its like painting your fence of your families property. Ive been paranoid for decades to even cut grass.

""Im not saying to anyone to go work for their spouse without a permit because that is illegal"" but just giving an example of some peoples circumstances which fall in to a category thats not really work in the traditional sense. In fact its more a personal interest/hobby for the wife

We certainly dont need the money, i have my own income. What im doing is assisiting to get things done with no pay. Its family chores....

What kind of xenophobic mental case would tear a family apart for being a family and helping each other out which is really what its all about.

Ive asked if i need a permit and been told i couldnt even apply as theres no permit for it therefore cant be in trouble for not having it. makes sense...

Im assuming this guy doesnt need to work so im sharing a personal situation.

My wifes been through this countless times with immigration while theyve been out to check on us. Surely someone would say "well, you know your not allowed". Its actually the opposite and we are encouraged to do what we want.

Its just not a business in the traditional sense nor do i wish to work in thailand at all nor can i understand why anyone would want to. Just giving this example.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[exemplary21]

4 hours ago, elviajero said:

 

To get a work permit you need to be formally employed by a company legally operating in Thailand. You and your wife could set up in business together, but the work you can do must be approved by labour office issuing the work permit.

 

 

Doesn't have to be a company, just a business registered with the Or Bor Tor under local partner's name.

[jackdd]

1 hour ago, bsdthai said:

Ive asked if i need a permit and been told i couldnt even apply as theres no permit for it therefore cant be in trouble for not having it. makes sense...

I could not get a work permit for being a taxi driver, so following your logic i can just be a taxi driver because i can't be in trouble for not having it. Does this make sense in your opinion?

 

1 hour ago, bsdthai said:

My wifes been through this countless times with immigration while theyve been out to check on us. Surely someone would say "well, you know your not allowed". Its actually the opposite and we are encouraged to do what we want. 

Somebody wrote it before, but it seems you didn't read it: Immigration police are not responsible for this, but the department of labour or department of employment. So it doesn't matter what the Immigration police guy said.

 

In general the Thai law is quite clear regarding this matter: If a foreigner works in Thailand he needs a work permit. It doesn't matter if he gets paid for his work or not.

[Tanoshi]

9 minutes ago, jackdd said:

In general the Thai law is quite clear regarding this matter: If a foreigner works in Thailand he needs a work permit. It doesn't matter if he gets paid for his work or not.

So would you regard giving advice on this forum as unpaid 'Consultancy' work and therefore you should have a work permit.

 

[baansgr]

18 hours ago, Bredbury Blue said:

If you and your wife went down the opening a thai company, then i understand that you only need to employ 2 thais to get your work permit (usually its minimum 4:1) so that could me your wife and one other, and you only need b1m paidup capital (usually  it's  b2m).

Chonburi labour office still require 4 Thai employees whether married or not.

[stevenl]

6 hours ago, elviajero said:

There’s nothing stopping the wife being one of the employees.

Yes there is, if the business is in the name of the wife.

[stevenl]

3 hours ago, bsdthai said:

Please quote the law here for all concerned.

There is no "specific" law regarding this as far as I'm aware therefore there cant be enforcement.

All the authorities in the area are aware of us even building our own house with our bare hands because we wanted to. Its an interest of ours to do so and theres no laws saying farang cant do what they want.

The scenario is its like painting your fence of your families property. Ive been paranoid for decades to even cut grass.

""Im not saying to anyone to go work for their spouse without a permit because that is illegal"" but just giving an example of some peoples circumstances which fall in to a category thats not really work in the traditional sense. In fact its more a personal interest/hobby for the wife

We certainly dont need the money, i have my own income. What im doing is assisiting to get things done with no pay. Its family chores....

What kind of xenophobic mental case would tear a family apart for being a family and helping each other out which is really what its all about.

Ive asked if i need a permit and been told i couldnt even apply as theres no permit for it therefore cant be in trouble for not having it. makes sense...

Im assuming this guy doesnt need to work so im sharing a personal situation.

My wifes been through this countless times with immigration while theyve been out to check on us. Surely someone would say "well, you know your not allowed". Its actually the opposite and we are encouraged to do what we want.

Its just not a business in the traditional sense nor do i wish to work in thailand at all nor can i understand why anyone would want to. Just giving this example.

Again, you're giving out totally wrong information here.

[ubonjoe]

54 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Yes there is, if the business is in the name of the wife.

Perhaps a mix up between a registered sole proprietor business and a partnership or company. The requirements are not the same.

[kurtmartens]

10 hours ago, elviajero said:

There’s nothing stopping the wife being one of the employees.

Correct.  My wife was one of the Thai employees we needed to get my WP.  

[elviajero]

8 hours ago, bsdthai said:

11 hours ago, elviajero said:

Nothing you describe is allowed by law. The local authorities may turn a blind eye to a husband helping out his wife, but that is in no way guaranteed.

Please quote the law here for all concerned.

There is no "specific" law regarding this as far as I'm aware therefore there cant be enforcement.

You said; "if your planning on helping out your wife/family with her buis and dont technically get paid or any such thing your allowed to work in any profession she does. its like helping out."

 

You cannot help out your wife with her business whether you get paid or not without permission. Here is the law concerned:-

Immigration Act.

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom must comply with the following :

1. Shall not engage in the occupation or temporary or employment unless authorized by the Director General. or competent official deputized by the Director General . If , in any case , there is a law concerning alien employment provided hereafter , the granting of work privileges must comply with the law concerned.

 

8 hours ago, bsdthai said:

The scenario is its like painting your fence of your families property. Ive been paranoid for decades to even cut grass.

Helping out your wife around the house you live in is no problem and a completely different situation. It could not be prosecuted because it's neither your occupation or employment.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, kurtmartens said:

Correct.  My wife was one of the Thai employees we needed to get my WP.  

Depends on the business. If it is a business in her name she can not be an employee. You're probably talking about a company limited with her being the majority shareholder?

[elviajero]

7 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

7 hours ago, jackdd said:

In general the Thai law is quite clear regarding this matter: If a foreigner works in Thailand he needs a work permit. It doesn't matter if he gets paid for his work or not.

So would you regard giving advice on this forum as unpaid 'Consultancy' work and therefore you should have a work permit.

Members of a forum giving each other advice couldn't be considered work as in work that would require permission or a work permit.

 

If there were someone working 9-5 for TVF I would say they are on dodgy ground. If they are being remunerated they would be bang to rights. 

[elviajero]

7 hours ago, jackdd said:

Somebody wrote it before, but it seems you didn't read it: Immigration police are not responsible for this, but the department of labour or department of employment. So it doesn't matter what the Immigration police guy said.

And both they and you are wrong.

 

The immigration police enforce immigration law, and immigration law (section 37.1) prohibits work. So if you are caught working without permission it's down to immigration to prosecute. Prosecution could be under Immigration Law or Alien Employment Law depending on the nature of the work and may/may not involve the Department of Labour. If you are caught by immigration running a market stall they could arrest, detain and prosecute you through the court, without DoL involvement, for breaking immigration law (section 37.1).

[Bredbury Blue]

New Amendments to the Work Permit Law and New Notification Requirements for Employers and Employees

 

https://www.bakermckenzie.com/en/insight/publications/2018/04/new-amendments-to-the-work-permit-law

 

"...on 27 March 2018, a new amendment to the Emergency Decree on Managing the Work of Aliens B.E. 2560 (2017) (the Amended Decree) was enacted and took effect on 28 March 2018.

 

The definition of “work” has been revised to "performing any profession, whether or not there is an employer, excluding business operations of a foreign business license's holder under the Foreign Business Act" - comparing with the previous definition of "exerting one's physical energy or employing one's knowledge to perform a profession or perform work, whether or not for wages or other benefits".

 

Might be of interest.

 

Edited July 22, 2018 by Bredbury Blue

[jackdd]

2 hours ago, elviajero said:

And both they and you are wrong.

 

The immigration police enforce immigration law, and immigration law (section 37.1) prohibits work. So if you are caught working without permission it's down to immigration to prosecute. Prosecution could be under Immigration Law or Alien Employment Law depending on the nature of the work and may/may not involve the Department of Labour. If you are caught by immigration running a market stall they could arrest, detain and prosecute you through the court, without DoL involvement, for breaking immigration law (section 37.1).

Actually what i said was right, because he wanted to know if the activity he is doing is considered work according to the law and asked the immigration police about it. But Immigration police does not decide if an activity is considered work according to the law, but this decision is made by DoL or DoE or maybe a judge. If these authorities classify what he is doing as work (selling stuff at a market is obviously work, so they don't have to be involved) then of course he could be arrested by immigration police for working illegaly. So if somebody is doing something and wants to know if this is considered work or not he has to ask the DoL or DoE about it, not the immigration police.

[ubonjoe]

Some baiting and bickering posts have been removed. Time to end it.

[rickudon]

This is Thailand. What the law says, and how it is applied here, can be very different ......  It is best to be cautious, but try and talk to other farang in your area to see if any of them work 'sort of'. In my area generally pretty relaxed if they know you are working with wife/girl friend, BUT a lot depends on if you are competing directly with a Thai person - if they complain, authorities may act.

 

We have actually had some of then selling stuff off of motorbike sidecar stools or in the market, and not been immediately stopped - but usually do not last long (probably for other reasons). Also farming your wife's land seems to be 'allowed' - at least do not know of any stopped from doing so. To some degree depends on if what you do is seen as full time or more of a hobby - i.e. when does growing vegetables on family land become a business ......

 

Local knowledge very important.