Missouri duck boat captain told passengers not to don life jackets - survivor

[rooster59]

Missouri duck boat captain told passengers not to don life jackets - survivor

 

Rescue personnel work after an amphibious "duck boat" capsized and sank, at Table Rock Lake near Branson, Stone County, Missouri, U.S. July 19, 2018 in this still image obtained from a video on social media. SOUTHERN STONE COUNTY FIRE PROTECTION DISTRICT/Facebook/via REUTERS

 

(Reuters) - An Indiana woman who lost nine members of her family, including her children and husband, when a "duck boat" capsized and sank in Missoruri said on television that the captain of the vessel told passengers not to put on life jackets.

 

Tia Coleman told an Indianapolis television station that she and her nephew were the only survivors from 11 members of their family who were on the amphibious vehicle when it capsized and sank in a storm near Branson, Missouri on Thursday, killing 17 of its 31 passengers.

 

"I lost all my children, I lost my husband, I lost my mother in law, I lost my father in law, I lost my uncle, I lost my sister in law - she was my sister - and I lost my nephew, I'm ok, but this is really hard," Coleman told Fox 59 from her hospital bed in Branson.

 

Coleman said her husband would "want the world to know" that when they were in the water, the captain of the vehicle told them not to put their life jackets on, an action she believed had cost lives.

 

"The captain told us 'don't worry about grabbing the life jackets, you won't need them,' so nobody grabbed them because we listened to the captain and he told us to stay seated," Coleman said. "However in doing that, when it was time to grab them it was too late. I believe that a lot of people could have been spared."

 

The captain of the vehicle was among 14 survivors, seven of whom were injured, one of them severely.

 

Coleman said the boat crew were told to first do the water section of the 70-minute land/water tour, which involves going in Table Rock Lake near Branson, so as to avoid an expected storm while they were sailing.

 

"There was a warning, the warning people said 'take them out to the water first before the storm hits,'" Coleman said, adding that she did not know whether they went through the land or the water section of the tour first. "The water didn't look ominous at the very first, it looked like normal water, and then it started looking really choppy."

 

A bystander took a more than four minute video of the duck boat slowly being swamped by waves as it tried to make it to shore, before it finally capsized and sank.

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-07-21

[khwaibah]

he company that owned the duck boat aka DUKW is going to be burnt toast.  http://www.bransonducks.com and add the following.

 

The violent storm behind the duck boat tragedy was well-predicted, not ‘out of nowhere’

https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/the-violent-storm-behind-the-duck-boat-tragedy-was-well-predicted-not-‘out-of-nowhere’/ar-BBKS80O?li=BBnb7Kz

[phantomfiddler]

What a terrible loss for the unfortunate lady !

[metisdead]

A troll post has been removed. 

[overherebc]

Sad news.

Wonder how this will sit with the Thai bashers on boat accidents that happen all over the world.

[Jingthing]

Just now, overherebc said:

Sad news.

Wonder how this will sit with the Thai bashers on boat accidents that happen all over the world.

Indeed they do but this tragedy won't be blamed on a foreign country. So there's that. 

[BritManToo]

3 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Coleman said her husband would "want the world to know" that when they were in the water, the captain of the vehicle told them not to put their life jackets on, an action she believed had cost lives.

Is she a credible witness?

Does someone else tell the same tale?

 

It doesn't sound likely to me, if I were a captain I would want to cancel any legal liability, and tell everyone to put life jackets on, even if I didn't enforce that. Presumably, she gets a much better payout if she can blame the captain, and he isn't around to contradict her.

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Is she a credible witness?

Does someone else tell the same tale?

 

It doesn't sound likely to me, if I were a captain I would want to cancel any legal liability, and tell everyone to put life jackets on, even if I didn't enforce that. Presumably, she gets a much better payout if she can blame the captain, and he isn't around to contradict her.

Well apparently the Captain is a Bible Thumper type so of course he can be relied on to tell the truth and nothing but the truth.

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Well apparently the Captain is a Bible Thumper type so of course he can be relied on to tell the truth and nothing but the truth.

Put your trust in god.

No thanks, I'll wear the life jacket!

 

(I see the captain survived, misread the OP)

[overherebc]

18 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Indeed they do but this tragedy won't be blamed on a foreign country. So there's that. 

Not yet Gladiator, not yet.

 

From the movie.

[overherebc]

6 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Put your trust in god.

No thanks, I'll wear the life jacket!

 

(I see the captain survived, misread the OP)

Yep, must have been a sinner on board.  Shame another 16 had to die so god could rid the world of one sinner by sending the storm.

[Nemises]

If the passengers were INSIDE a cabin of the vessel, then the captain was correct... do not don your life jacket, wait until you’re OUTSIDE with no obstruction above you.

[overherebc]

18 minutes ago, Gregster said:

If the passengers were INSIDE a cabin of the vessel, then the captain was correct... do not don your life jacket, wait until you’re OUTSIDE with no obstruction above you.

Well yes depending on the type.

If the inflatable type you can wear it until you enter the water then pull the tab.

The usual type are more likely to drown you rather than save you, too much flotation aid on the back compared to the front so tend to turn you face down and that's not really a good idea.

If you've ever gone through helicopter ditching exercises you'll understand what can save you and what can kill you.

Even jumping from more than about 30 feet with an inflated device or a full jacket type can break your neck if your not holding down tight on the front of it.

When you hit the water the jacket stops and you keep going at the same speed so it hits you under the chin and snaps your head back.

[Nemises]

Well yes depending on the type.

If the inflatable type you can wear it until you enter the water then pull the tab.

 

 

Agree totally. I’m tipping this particular vessel never had the inflatable type, hence why the captain advised not to don them.

I understand many of the victims of the recent Phuket boat sinking disaster were found inside cabins wearing inflated life jackets.

[scottiejohn]

All emergency life jackets should be stowed on the upper deck in free-floating or hydrostatically released containers along with baskets of easy to grab floatation devices and lifebelts arranged around the vessel.  
Wearing any fixed/auto inflation floatation device (ie not human controlled inflating) inside a vessel is a recipe for disaster.

[overherebc]

13 minutes ago, Gregster said:

 

Agree totally. I’m tipping this particular vessel never had the inflatable type, hence why the captain advised not to don them.

 

Yes. The usual type just pin you to the roof when the water comes in. Instant panic and death.

[scottiejohn]

26 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Even jumping from more than about 30 feet with an inflated device

In the RN you were always trained to jump in pairs (buddy system) with only a semi inflated (<50%) jacket and as you said hold it tightly to the chest then top up after entry.  

[scottiejohn]

25 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Yes. The usual type just pin you to the roof when the water comes in. Instant panic and death.

That is why ALL the airline safety(sic) briefs tell you to get to the cabin door before pulling the toggle!

 

PS;  How safe was that thing since it must have been built in the early 1940's for a quick dash from the LST to the beach.  Some were converted for cargo carrying but only in enclosed harbours?

[connda]

5 hours ago, rooster59 said:

An Indiana woman who lost nine members of her family, including her children and husband, when a "duck boat" capsized and sank in Missoruri said on television that the captain of the vessel told passengers not to put on life jackets.

As my mom would have said, "If someone tells you to jump off a cliff, do you do it?"   For those who don't get it, that was a lesson in self-responsibility.

Mothers nowadays must tell their kids, "Do what others tell you so you don't offend them, and if there is a problem, mommy will sue them in court later."  

[overherebc]

1 hour ago, scottiejohn said:

That is why ALL the airline safety(sic) briefs tell you to get to the cabin door before pulling the toggle!

 

PS;  How safe was that thing since it must have been built in the early 1940's for a quick dash from the LST to the beach.  Some were converted for cargo carrying but only in enclosed harbours?

Basically designed for flat or almost flat calm seas.

There is a difference between landing craft and DUKW's as well. 

One was 6 wheeled that could travel on the beach or land as well as water, 2 props at the back.

The landing craft were water only, no wheels obviously, with a ramp at the front.

That was later changed to man ramp at the back because as soon as the ramp dropped one machine gun could wipe out 90% of the guys because it was an easy target and rounds just bounced around inside.

DUKW

 

D  1942

U  Utility

K  6 wheel

W Two powered rear axles

or something like that.

Course at Bovington was a long time ago. ?

[scottiejohn]

12 hours ago, overherebc said:

That was later changed to man ramp at the back

On a LCU/LCM! No way they beached and the men run like <deleted> up the beach.  Stern ramps are only for RO/RO.

Or do you mean the DUKWs (Duck) which ran up the beach and then disgorged from wherever.  

 

Jumping off the back of a LCU/LCM into deeper water than the front is at is stupid!

[overherebc]

11 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

On a LCU/LCM! No way they beached and the men run like <deleted> up the beach.  Stern ramps are only for RO/RO.

Or do you mean the DUKWs (Duck) which ran up the beach and then disgorged from wherever.  

WW2 landing craft were front ramp.

They weren't DUKW's or Ducks as they were called.

[scottiejohn]

17 minutes ago, overherebc said:

WW2 landing craft were front ramp.

They weren't DUKW's

Exactly!

Where does this stern ramp concept of yours come into this that you quoted in Post 20?

In initial beach infantry landings (not airborne)

You either;

1. Wade ashore (from the front ramp) where the Landing craft (LCU/LCVP/LCM et al) cannot reach the beach - sandbar/obstacle (Atlantic Wall)

2. The  Landing craft (LCU/LCVP/LCM et al) run aground (hit the beach) drop the ramp and become cannon fodder.

3.  Use a waterborne craft (DOKW/floating tank (WW11) or ACV/hovercraft etc.

 

If you wish to continue this side topic I suggest you start a new topic and allow the safety aspects originally being discussed here to continue unabated.

 

PS you seem to be editing post after I have responded!!!

[overherebc]

My take on is the so called Duck boat is probably a converted DUKW ( without ramp ) having all the wheels etc removed and flat bottomed with one or two props at the back.

Suitable for river or calm water only.

For sure not suitable for rough weather.

[Nyezhov]

I thought stuff like this only happened on Thailand....

[overherebc]

12 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Exactly!

Where does this stern ramp concept of yours come into this that you quoted in Post 20?

In initial beach infantry landings (not airborne)

You either;

1. Wade ashore (from the front ramp) where the Landing craft (LCU/LCVP/LCM et al) cannot reach the beach - sandbar/obstacle (Atlantic Wall)

2. The  Landing craft (LCU/LCVP/LCM et al) run aground (hit the beach) drop the ramp and become cannon fodder.

3.  Use a waterborne craft (DOKW/floating tank (WW11) or ACV/hovercraft etc.

 

If you wish to continue this side topic I suggest you start a new topic and allow the safety aspects originally being discussed here to continue unabated.

 

PS you seem to be editing post after I have responded!!!

Latest ideas are like a combination of DUKW and landing craft that get on the beach/landing allow use of a rear ramp and still get back into the water for a further load of men.

Front ramp is a very fast way to get a lot of guys on the beach but still makes an easy target.

[scottiejohn]

5 minutes ago, overherebc said:

My take on is the so called Duck boat is probably a converted DUKW ( without ramp ) having all the wheels etc removed and flat bottomed with one or two props at the back.

Suitable for river or calm water only.

For sure not suitable for rough weather.

Do you know what you are talking about?

"DUCK" is the WW11 nickname for the DUKW.  It has never had a ramp.

• D, Designed in 1942
• U, Utility
• K, All-wheel drive
• W, Dual-Tandem rear axles

 

A five-speed overdrive transmission drove a transfer case for the propeller, then a two-speed transfer case to drive the axles. The propeller and front axle were selectable from their transfer case.

As I said above I suggest you discuss this in a new forum and allow the original discussion to continue.

 

PS; I have commanded Amphibious Warfare Troops and think I know my subject. 

[overherebc]

14 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Do you know what you are talking about?

"DUCK" is the WW11 nickname for the DUKW.  It has never had a ramp.

• D, Designed in 1942
• U, Utility
• K, All-wheel drive
• W, Dual-Tandem rear axles

 

A five-speed overdrive transmission drove a transfer case for the propeller, then a two-speed transfer case to drive the axles. The propeller and front axle were selectable from their transfer case.

As I said above I suggest you discuss this in a new forum and allow the original discussion to continue.

 

PS; I have commanded Amphibious Warfare Troops and think I know my subject. 

That's why previously I did point out that a duck is not a landing craft.

I've also been in a 'duck'.

The duck boat in the sinking may have been an old converted DUKW or maybe just a big metal flatbottom construction that resembled an old DUKW.

The main point being it shouldn't have been in open water considering the weather conditions.

Reason for mentioning landing craft is that some people don't know the difference and call them all 'Ducks.'

[geriatrickid]

4 hours ago, overherebc said:

Sad news.

Wonder how this will sit with the Thai bashers on boat accidents that happen all over the world.

No relevance at this time because no facts have been established yet. There is a claim by a distraught woman that is uncorroborated. She doesn't even know if the water or land tour was first. Really? Yes there was a storm warning, but if the time  buffer was respected than the link isn't there. Wait for the facts to be established. Companies like this have histories. If there is one of cutting corners and a failure to  supervise etc., it will quickly be identified.  

Woman like this are usually unreliable witnesses because they see and hear what they think they saw and heard, not necessarily what occurred. The truth will come out, because there will be a transparent investigation, unlike in Thailand. if someone is responsible, that person or persons will be held accountable, again unlike in Thailand.

[geriatrickid]

1 hour ago, overherebc said:

My take on is the so called Duck boat is probably a converted DUKW ( without ramp ) having all the wheels etc removed and flat bottomed with one or two props at the back.

Suitable for river or calm water only.

For sure not suitable for rough weather.

Why make comments until you actually have reliable facts?

It was just purchased by Ripley Entertainment, so there will have been a safety audit at some point.

 

Ride The Ducks Branson