Expat volunteers in Chiang Mai denied visas in work permit standoff

[stillhereandlovinit]

14 hours ago, Monkeyrobot said:

You cannot do volunteer work without a work permit. Unless you can cave drive .

Driving a cave, that's a new skill i've not seen before. Do you need a cave driving license?

[phuketrichard]

maybe its cause of sites like this
 

Quote

 

How to get a 1 year Non O Volunteer Visa/Work Permit.
Digital Nomads, Expats and Visitors that want to stay and live in Chiang Mai for 12 Months!
What if I was to tell you there is a way?

What if you could obtain (for around the same price as a 6 month education Visa), 1 year Non O Volunteer Visa and a Thai Work Permit?  You can get the one year visa and work permit for a year for a total cost of 35,000 baht.  No more hassle waiting 5 hours at immigration every 90 days for your Education Visa. No need to spend hours a week studying to ensure you pass the Immigration spot tests. And a whole year not just the new 6 months on the Ed Visa

 

https://chiangmaibuddy.com/1-year-non-o-volunteer-visa/

[Shiver]

19 hours ago, 0815 said:

Ouch !
I had an Akha girlfriend some years ago and remember the foul tricks of the western priests to give a "choice" very well...

Where there is power/influence, corruption never seems to be far behind.

 

I don't have a religion.  I have beliefs, but they change so fast I'd never be able to write a book about them before they were redundant, and even if I did people would abuse my 'good book' for their own purposes anyhow.  Better just to do your own homework and know your friends, and keep your enemies far from you to avoid conflict if it is not necessary.

[Happyman58]

23 hours ago, webcrawler00 said:

STOP VOLUNTEERING IN THAILAND. Go somewhere where your FREE help is appreciated!  So obvious to me! Wonder if the foreign cave rescuers also needed to stand in line to first secure a work permit. 

Missing the point here Nobody hates volunteers I use to be one in Australia" Meals on wheels". I think the problem is people are using the visa system to get a 1-year visa and really they have no intention of doing charity work for a year. If the system is a bit like Australia and it looks like it is  where u do volunteer work u must register with an organization  Like me eg meals on wheels and u get an id card So people will know you are genuine OK I am sure if you register  with a charity in Thailand you will have no problems because they will get the work permit for you. Ok, That way you will be obligated to do charity work like it says on your visa. The cave situation doesn't ever compare to that.  That is rubbish what you are suggesting. Completely different to what we are talking about. They were guys who were not chasing 1-year visa's to Thailand  They came to do a job Thailand who had no experience in that situation and I am damn sure work permits did not even enter their minds. So we all sit back and watch those boys die on what you are suggesting.  All of those volunteers never had any intention of staying in Thailand. They came to save the boys and did a fantastic job When the job was completed they went home and why because that's in their ethics to help people.  I think the moral to this story is going through the right channels and you will have no problem

[5633572526]

I am here on a retirement visa and before coming here I thought it would be great to do volunteer work but then encountered the near impossibility of doing this without a work permit and a company of some sort to sponsor/hire you.

plus side I spend more time traveling 

[Jasonron]

Hahaha thousands of white volunteers in Chiangmai... similar to the African football players in the UK ... very cunning but innocent... why couldn’t they do the service back home... similar to these are the ones who study Thai after they retire ... hahaha what a shame on these people using cheap tactics to stick around and earn a living.. I encountered a useless fellow nearing 60 from the UK.. he was jobless and desperate for a job. Attends to invited parties for food and drinks and boasts of wanting to return something back to the society.. no education and work.. there are at least a few thousands to several on selling these fake lies... 

[ukrules]

8 hours ago, 5633572526 said:

I am here on a retirement visa and before coming here I thought it would be great to do volunteer work but then encountered the near impossibility of doing this without a work permit and a company of some sort to sponsor/hire you.

plus side I spend more time traveling 

 

You're right, it's not worth bothering to lift a finger here. Just let them get on with it.

[fstarbkk]

On 8/2/2018 at 7:48 AM, davidkas said:

There is another type of person. 

After I have retired I would like to get a work permit to help as a non paid volunteer to benefit my local community. 

I don’t want anything just something to do that will give me a feeling of having given something. 

How would this affect me, I would already have a visa by marriage?

I have done what you are hoping to do --- After working legitimately in Thailand, running a company, I retired 2 years ago and started volunteering at a reputable international NGO. If you already have permission to stay based on marriage, you are eligible to apply for a volunteer work permit. You will need to have one to legally volunteer in any capacity. You also need an accredited organization to sponsor/ support your application.

 

Even before this situation in Chiangmai arose, there was a lot of scrutiny from both Immigration and the labor department, before I was granted a volunteer WP. The process involved several interviews (with immigration, labor department, and even the provincial development administration). In addition, I have to submit regular activity reports and immigration even does "spot checks" on site.

 

So, in my experience, volunteering legally is not an easy "backdoor" or a good alternative to the phony education visa option. But I'm glad I did the whole thing and can now use my time and skills, doing something that has a real, sustainable impact in a place for which I have, despite its idiosyncrasies, a deep affection.

[Number 6]

Good. What fool can't see this dodge? My suspicion is that very few are actual volunteers, fewer still doing any good.

 

I'm certain this is a huge reason teachers wages in CM are so depressed. Agencies are using this route to fill schools.

 

Anyone that volunteers teaching English in a public school is an absolute rube.

 

[StayinThailand2much]

On 8/1/2018 at 5:40 PM, snoop1130 said:

He said this was causing serious problems for long term non-immigrant "O" volunteers and charitable foundations and that as many as 1000 foreigners are affected.

 

Thailand doesn't want charity. Time for charitable organisations to move on to places where they are needed and welcome, e.g. Myanmar, Laos, and Cambodia.

[Michael N]

By now, November 6, 2018, has this issue been finally resolved? I would appreciate a response very much because, last Friday, I have encountered the same problem in Bangkok, that is, the Labor Office rejected my application for a work permit since, as a volunteer, I had no income or other benefits. When time comes to extend my non-B visa, on which I had relied on previous such occasions (rather than non-O), I expect that Immigration at Chaeng Wattana will want to see my work permit. And since I would not be able to present it to them, they will reject the extension of my visa.

 

I would much appreciate if anybody involved with this issue, and reliable follow-up information to the article, could respond on my post.

[Michael N]

On 8/2/2018 at 2:26 PM, jgarbo said:

It's the law. "Using your knowledge, with or without compensation" is work, which needs a permit.

Volunteering is illegal in Thailand. You don't like it, go back to your own country and volunteer there. Simple.

Not any longer. Since the 2nd Amendment of the Royal Decree in March this year, working as a volunteer, ie. without compensation, is legal, and you will not get a work permit for it, even if you applied (as I did).

[freedomnow]

Yes, be interesing to see any update on this issue a few months back, if anyone got the volunteer visa as the work permit no longer seems to be needed and immi. is just not up-to-speed 'up country'.

[balo]

I guess that means trouble for all the "missionaries" up north , bless them...

[Cuba]

On 8/1/2018 at 7:03 PM, PJPom said:

Pay a lot of money and you too can become a volunteer, this has to be one of the biggest cons going. 

Unqualified and in some case totally untrustworthy people try to enter through the back door and in the process make some people very rich, about time it was clamped down on by Immigration.

How can you be an unqualified volunteer?

[moontang]

2 minutes ago, Cuba said:

How can you be an unqualified volunteer?

teachers with no experience or solid background come to mind.

[elektrified]

16 hours ago, balo said:

I guess that means trouble for all the "missionaries" up north , bless them...

I seriously doubt it. They have a huge network of people who handle their affairs; including immigration lawyers.

[Michael N]

Oh, man, the intellectual level here really is impressive (but neither constructive nor helpful).

[LomSak27]

For whatever reason expats here have this thing about Work Permits. It's like putting a stick a dynamite up the colon. They go crazy.

 

BTW, the only people I have known, (no not a friend), who fell afoul of the work permit problem, was reported to the Thai authorities by, yep you guessed it, a fellow expat. Not a Thai. Nope no one else cared but this mean spirited vindictive Expat.

 

You just can't make up Stupid like this. Go figure.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

THAILAND does not need volunteers and NGO's.

Most of those NGO's and "volunteers" 

are agents of the christian roman empire with all it's ugliness and hypocracy.

at best it's a way to arrange jobs and income for christian westerners, mostly whites.

and at worse it is a scam that allows criminals and pedophiles opportunites.

and in any case, it is humiliating and pathetic for any country to accept such volunteers

and NGO's.

for example, in cambodia , few years ago, they used to sell canabis in the fresh market. nobody

cares until some scumbag NGO's came and told the police - propably bribing them - to

shut it down cuase it is a crime bla bla bla. and look. canabis is legalised in canada

and parts of the USA.

another example are all those american "bargirl" savers , mostly north american woman, who

come to "supervise" the "sex industry", while in the same time USA is the biggest distributor

of horrific porn industry, that spreads all kinds of pervercies to all corners of the world.

 

no, thai authorities can see threw this bullwaste and hopefully they will kick out of the

country all those disgusting christian NGO's and "volunteers".

[simon43]

I wonder if there are any updates about the topic of this thread.

 

I concur with the experiences of a couple of posters.  I have been a volunteer in Thailand (and Myanmar) for more than 15 years, typically doing unpaid (non-religious) volunteer work alongside my paid employment.  Sometimes I was told that I don't need a work permit (Tourist police volunteer  => above the law LoL).

 

But for the most part, my volunteer work has been 'illegal' because, to put it simply, there has been no registered Thai Foundation for me to work for - I have been working alone or with local Thais.  So there has been no possible route for me to even apply for a volunteer work permit...

 

Now I live in Thailand with a Thai Elite visa.  That's a long-term tourist visa and paid/unpaid work is not permitted.

 

I still do my volunteer work regardless ????  In 15 years, I have never had any problems because the bottom line seems to be that the local authorities know that I'm doing genuine work.

 

I would love to register my own charitable foundation in Thailand, and use that as a means to sponsor my volunteer work permit.  Alas, the lawyer costs and paperwork is beyond me, especially since I have never found anyone willing to help me ???? ("Simon, you're doing great work!  Can I spare a few hours to help you? Er... bit busy right now...")

 

If the sh*t hits the fan, I would go back to Myanmar and continue my volunteer efforts from there, (where my unpaid work and skills/experience was previously met with open arms).

 

Ah well, got to keep a low profile in case any anti-volunteer spies are lurking.

[Shiver]

"Unpaid work" is a term that has all kinds of holes in it, which I'm too lazy to write about since I don't see it making a drop of difference, but....

Whatever the letter of the law, I think the gist of it is "don't take Thai jobs" and "don't mess with our capital controls".  If you're working online then technically I believe that would be outside the law, but probably ignored as it's only going to be beneficial for the country with cash inflow from outside the kingdom and spent here.  Still, I wouldn't shout about it if I were doing that (which I'm not btw... I hung up my job boots years ago).

If you want to teach a sport or something where the reward is pleasure and not money, they really ought to consider having a exception clause for that.

[vinegarbase]

On 12/1/2018 at 11:41 PM, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

they will kick out of the

country all those disgusting christian NGO's

I know a guy up North that has a Christian NGO that is an orphanage. He houses and schools Thai orphans and teaches them real skills that they can run a business or make money with. They also have the option to go to college if they want that he helps pay for. How is this disgusting? Did a bible beat you up and bully you as a kid, geez.

[observer90210]

What to say ?..... Obviously many have abused of the volunteer schemes, to just get a long stay visa or endulge in doubtful activity....

 

[overherebc]

51 minutes ago, vinegarbase said:

I know a guy up North that has a Christian NGO that is an orphanage. He houses and schools Thai orphans and teaches them real skills that they can run a business or make money with. They also have the option to go to college if they want that he helps pay for. How is this disgusting? Did a bible beat you up and bully you as a kid, geez.

Because anything based on religion should be kept inside your front door and not allowed out in public.

[moontang]

Just now, overherebc said:

Because anything based on religion should be kept inside your front door and not allowed out in public.

Kind of the opposite way it is done, where you chose to live.

[StevieAus]

On 8/2/2018 at 7:14 AM, Kerryd said:

I suspect that at least one person (or maybe both of them) have clued in that the majority of the "volunteers" are in fact just scammers. Just like how so many so called "charities" are nothing but a rip-off where people play on other people's sympathies to generate donations that they then use to pay themselves very nice salaries and claim all their expenses against the charity.

Kind of like how most religions have operated for centuries.

 

Could be that "someone" has read some forum(s) somewhere where "volunteers" like to talk about how easy it is to scam a visa by pretending to be volunteering for (whatever) charity. 

Kind of like how "someone" reads the Visa forums on here and the next thing you know they put a kibosh on 30 Day border runners and start cracking down on "Ed" Visa scammers and so on.

A lot of people have this idiot idea that they have some (self granted) "right" to do whatever they want, wherever they want and when someone tells them otherwise they get all huffy because they think their (self granted) rights overrule everyone else's.

Maybe a few of them are finding out that some people really don't give a **** what they think.

Or it could just be that the bosses of those 2 departments really don't like each other for some reason and are simply playing politics.

I think your post sums it up brilliantly and probably covers many of the issues that appear on this site.

Merry Christmas.

[kannot]

On 8/2/2018 at 1:32 PM, marqus12 said:

There is nothing wrong to have a choice and for sure it is not worse

than pushing the child from the age of 2.5 in school to the "state" religion

Better  still no religion the  only sensible choice, anything else is pure fantasy, all religion especially at an early  age is  CHILD  ABUSE but the world  has yet to see this.

[lordblackader]

On 12/20/2018 at 9:21 PM, overherebc said:

Because anything based on religion should be kept inside your front door and not allowed out in public.

As long as they're not heavily pushing it, good for them. You also forget that most of the hill tribes are nominally Christian to begin with.

[metempsychotic]

On 8/1/2018 at 6:52 PM, Briggsy said:

How many of these volunteers are evangelists?

Exactly this, chiang Mai is lousy with God botherers masquerading as volunteers of altruistic intent