Less Western Expats arriving than ever before and a significant fall in working Western expats now in Thailand

[Khun Loong]

2 more weeks to go then I leave for good after more than 12 years living here.

if I had to list the reasons that pushed me to decide it would be:

1. General increase in costs of living without increase in standard of living

2. Tired of the ugliness of Bangkok and garbage everywhere, throughout the country

3. Massive increase in Chinese tourism. 

4. Massive increase in phone zombies. Hassle just walking the streets with large percentage of people not looking where they are going.

[Development at Khaoyai]

Very little has been said about one of the other major factors, and that is exchange rates.

Just prior to the Brexit vote, it was possible to obtain 55 Baht to the £ at most exchange booths.  Now you are lucky to get 41, which is a tremendous fall in value of the £, and to some extent the $ and Euro as well.

[meechai]

11 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

There is nothing to stop you having a 100% foreign owned business in Thailand and operating normally. If you want to own land in Thailand, other than a couple of exceptions then you need to have more than 50% Thai owned.

 

Your post is just one example of someone with very limited knowledge on company ownership etc starts spreading misinformation to other uninformed persons.

 

I believe what you say about 100% foreign owned is for Americans due to a treaty yes?

(Treaty of Amity and Economic Relations between the Kingdom of Thailand and the United States of America )

 

Land your saying 50% Thai owned then I think your talking about a condo not a house right?

 

[overherebc]

11 hours ago, Fex Bluse said:

This is true. What is funny though is that those cheaper Indians and Filipinos and Thais are generally not equal to Westerners. I know it sounds arrogant but it's true in my view. 

 

But, what many expats never realized until late is that Thais don't care about quality or excellence. They are happy with "good enough", so there really is no motivation to pay for quality people. The entire country is built around incompetence and mediocrity. No place for talented people. 

One of the problems is the non-flexible mental attitude to the rules.

Very difficult to discuss a work around for problems that happen during construction fabrication and less of an ability to see a potential problem that can/could be avoided with a bit of thought.

Fit part A then fit part B. Don't have a look first to check if fitting A completely will cause some difficulty in one or two areas of part B. It always works according to the drawing, but.

If a problem does appear the first reaction is 'write an NCR'

( Non Conformance Report ) and then walk away from it, even if they can see the problem will appear they will say nothing, wait until it happens then issue an NCR.

Hand on heart, I worked on one project where they an office of at least 10 guys whose only job consisted of issuing NCR's and maintaining the NCR data base.

Never seen such a waste of time, money, manpower and material in all my life.

The sub-contractors had to employ people as NCR clearing teams. I kid you not.

[smutcakes]

Just now, meechai said:

 

I believe what you say about 100% foreign owned is for Americans due to a treaty yes?

 

Land your saying 50% Thai owned then I think your talking about a condo not a house right?

 

No, 100% Foreign owned companies can buy land in Industrial Estates, or if they receive BOI to acquire land, but this is not normally residential. And of course condos can be 100% foreign owned subject to the restrictions on 51%/49% on the whole condominium.

 

[makecoldplayhistory]

Fewer 

 

 

[baansgr]

Thailand still has a lot to offer, affordable living and reasonable transport links but for those that arrived 8 years plus ago.....would you really make this your home. It definately has changed in many ways and I for one certainly would not choose Thailand now. Im at the stage I do not want to interact with Thais in any way unless absolutely having too. 

[peperobi]

With all the difficulties that we do have for the visa, WP and and and is clear to me that many peoples prefer to bring their money to another country.

The government must really think about a big changing in the Employment and visa rules.

Many other countries on the planet give you the citizen status after 5-10 years with not many obstacles.

[overherebc]

10 minutes ago, makecoldplayhistory said:

Fewer 

 

 

??

Phew'r

Took a while. ??

[bkk6060]

39 minutes ago, Khun Loong said:

2 more weeks to go then I leave for good after more than 12 years living here.

if I had to list the reasons that pushed me to decide it would be:

1. General increase in costs of living without increase in standard of living

2. Tired of the ugliness of Bangkok and garbage everywhere, throughout the country

3. Massive increase in Chinese tourism. 

4. Massive increase in phone zombies. Hassle just walking the streets with large percentage of people not looking where they are going.

#1 and #4 will be your experience where ever you go now. Everyone is on their phones everywhere cannot escape it.

Chinese are just about at every popular tourist destination or any place that is good in the world.

Good luck where ever you go.

[Kurtsie]

Consider us Expats that work regionally.  Companies stopped allowing  business class travel for flights under 6-7 hours years ago.  Now our wonderful airports have taken away the one item that we could use, buying fast track service to iuse with a full ecconomy ticket.  Only people with business or first class tickets may now use fast track.  With empty booths at immigration and drunk, rowdy first time tourists coming in, the lines for a business traveler can exceed 3 hours.  I'm considering moving out to Singapore or Malaysia for my remaining 3 years of contract before retiring.

[baansgr]

2 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

#1 and #4 will be your experience where ever you go now. Everyone is on their phones everywhere cannot escape it.

Chinese are just about at every popular tourist destination or any place that is good in the world.

Good luck where every you go.

Its not the same in most countries regarding phones. Most staff are not allowed phones whilst working with the public. Even yesterday at the food court....the girl was too busy on her phone to take my order, Khun Kap 3 times, still didnt respond, and this is common in almost all outlets

[Wallander4]

Been here 5 years - gonna leave for Europe with thai wife after new year. Life will be better, cheaper and less stressful than here ...

[My Thai Life]

This statistical analysis would fail an "O" level (c grade 10) assignment: its assumptions, methods and and conclusions are not valid.

 

When the 1st TV survey was done in 2014 I asked why educational attainment wasn't included in the questionnaire, as it's a standard socioeconomic indicator, and one that would have been useful for the TV marketing purposes which are the real driver behind the survey.

 

I guess it's still true that 40-50% of TV visits originate outside of Thailand.

[Muzarella]

This is a Reality check for the Thai Government, and will be good for many foreigners already retired or working here. Inmmigration rules are changing now, and it will change more to attract foreigners. Schools already have problems in getting native English teachers.

Now, it are hiring anybody who can speak some English. From Russia to Africa and India, and the Philipines, and paying a lot more than 10 years ago.

Even some Public shools are paying well over 30000 thb/month plus free housing., and with the new WP rules, foreigners may be permited to open its own business related with their former profession and qualifications.... even on the teaching and tourism sectors. The only "secret" in doing good business projects here is to become fluent in Thai, and to understand the businees culture.

Housing may be a problem on certain cities. Rental cost is going up already, and prices on some services and products, specially in tourist cities. But it is happening in every country in the worls, and it is related to the increase on tourists and investors from China, Russia, India and many other near countres. I believe strongly that Thailand it is a good country for real estate developers and investors. specialy now that the "new" USA is not so friendly to foreign investors and professionals from foreign countries, that now are looking for friendlier places to buy, sell, and invest....or just to move there.

Thailand may be one of those. Anyway... if not interested in making money, Thailand still the best country just to have a fun and cheap life ...and safe too. No doubts about.

[Easy Come Easy Go]

It's what I've been saying all year. Less Farang and more Chinese. The thing with the Chinese is, they all hop on their buses, see sights, and get the hell out. They don't stop off in restaurants or 'gogo' bars like many farang do, and this spend less money which doesn't feed into the economy. 

I think that things have become too expensive here for what it is. There are a myriad of countries that are equally as beautiful if not more so, at a fraction of the price. Also, Thailands rubbish problem is getting out of control. It is a beautiful country naturally speaking, but they are ruining it with their trash and plastics. It's a shame but it is what it is 

[SpeakeasyThai]

i am 54, on a retirement visa and have noticed in the last 18 months more girlies seem to want me-show interest than before. Must be the exodus mentioned in the article. Money must be short. 555

[smutcakes]

18 minutes ago, peperobi said:

With all the difficulties that we do have for the visa, WP and and and is clear to me that many peoples prefer to bring their money to another country.

The government must really think about a big changing in the Employment and visa rules.

Many other countries on the planet give you the citizen status after 5-10 years with not many obstacles.

Thailand also gives you citizenship after 5-10 years if you qualify. The problem for many is they ignore it for the 1st 5 years then start thinking about it. And then they realize that they should have thought about it 5 years ago and now its all a bit to much.

 

Its ironic that so many lament the Thais for the difficulties in obtaining visas, 90 day reporting (which is pretty much a nothing) etc they will be the first ones complaining about their home countries letting in immigrants or having to lax regulations. 

[BritManToo]

10 hours ago, Bangkok Ape said:

Anyone who's relocation choice is restricted to PI and Thailand is clearly a sex tourist.

You've never been to Cambodia or Vietnam then.

[SpeakeasyThai]

9 minutes ago, Muzarella said:

This is a Reality check for the Thai Government, and will be good for many foreigners already retired or working here. Inmmigration rules are changing now, and it will change more to attract foreigners. Schools already have problems in getting native English teachers.

Now, it are hiring anybody who can speak some English. From Russia to Africa and India, and the Philipines, and paying a lot more than 10 years ago.

Even some Public shools are paying well over 30000 thb/month plus free housing., and with the new WP rules, foreigners may be permited to open its own business related with their former profession and qualifications.... even on the teaching and tourism sectors. The only "secret" in doing good business projects here is to become fluent in Thai, and to understand the businees culture.

Housing may be a problem on certain cities. Rental cost is going up already, and prices on some services and products, specially in tourist cities. But it is happening in every country in the worls, and it is related to the increase on tourists and investors from China, Russia, India and many other near countres. I believe strongly that Thailand it is a good country for real estate developers and investors. specialy now that the "new" USA is not so friendly to foreign investors and professionals from foreign countries, that now are looking for friendlier places to buy, sell, and invest....or just to move there.

Thailand may be one of those. Anyway... if not interested in making money, Thailand still the best country just to have a fun and cheap life ...and safe too. No doubts about.

'Cheap life'.... sadly so true in LOS.

[anon4637435435]

i have thought of leaving for many years but the financial burden of being here and having had so many what it boils down to racial issues forcing us to move and so on doesnt allow us the financial freedom to pack up and leave anymore. Worst case scenario we would leave anyway and work it out but plan to leave within the next 5-10yrs all going well.

[tideout]

14 hours ago, BritManToo said:

You've never been to Cambodia or Vietnam then.

Agreed. It's always made me laugh when I speak to a conservative guy or gal here in Ho Chi Minh about going to Thailand and they snicker about it being nothing more than a sex tourist destination. Meanwhile they're having a coffee in between 2 girlie bars or massage joints.

[rodney earl]

I was in Vietnam in 69 and have been back there twice and both times had the house I was renting broken into and a friends house had been broken into three times. Guess what. I wont be going back there again, as much as I would like to sometimes.

[utalkin2me]

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

Those are mostly people who can no longer afford the rents in lower Sukhumvit. Not newbies.

Yes, that is definitely true. Maybe my original comment was off base this topic being about travelers. 

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Does anyone remember  the military leader stating "We don't want foreigners here" the day after the coup on Thaksin? Seems this military government is making good on those words by just making it so difficult for farangs to live here that eventually they win the waiting game. 

[Wallander4]

11 hours ago, rumak said:

well,  my cost of living is still  about 70% less than my daughter who lives (modestly) in North America.

 

eat simple ,  live simple,   live healthy          that is my retirement plan

can't think of another country that can compare  ( for me, that is)

many threads on leaving and going to laos or cambodia or phil,  or vietnam .

if YOUNG maybe worth a shot.   but for retirees seeking a modest but comfortable lifestyle

i think thailand still wins.   

Have you tried looking at Bulgaria ... If you are EU citizen then you get 5 years residence permit after your 3 months. Daily living is cheaper and they have a great climate - try google Varna at Black Sea ...

[Easy Come Easy Go]

Out of curiosity, where are the other locations that you might consider moving to (apart from back home) 

I have always liked Laos, however the medical infrastructure is bad, and many other aspects of the country are very 3rd world indeed. 

[rumak]

4 minutes ago, Wallander4 said:

Have you tried looking at Bulgaria ... If you are EU citizen then you get 5 years residence permit after your 3 months. Daily living is cheaper and they have a great climate - try google Varna at Black Sea ...

haha   i think you should address this to other folks looking for a place to retire.   I have found mine,

but thanks anyway

[tideout]

14 hours ago, rodney earl said:

I was in Vietnam in 69 and have been back there twice and both times had the house I was renting broken into and a friends house had been broken into three times. Guess what. I wont be going back there again, as much as I would like to sometimes.

There are problems here that's for sure. Robbery in all its forms is an ongoing thing. Sometimes it's the failing structure of the house, sometimes it's the stuff being carried out of your house. It takes some time to see the wrinkles in things here but they are pretty deep sometimes. It's developing but that is not always a good thing and it's certainly not organized well here. The "Chinese" issue may soon be a turning point - several long term leases to the Chinese on Vietnamese land (99 years!) and recent agreements between Ho Chi Minh city and Beijing to triple the number of Chinese tourists in a city that is already plagued by infrastructure problems.....we'll see.

[Henryford]

No farang "owns" a house in Thailand ha ha