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How many visa exempt entries (by air)?


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I have been reading throughout some of the posts in this forum and I have some doubts I want to ask you because I am in a mess.

The number of visa exempt entries by air is really unlimited? I have read that Immigration Officers receive a warning when you get six visa exempt entries? Do they receive this warning when you do six VEE during all your lifetime, during last years or only in the rolling year? I have read something related to 180 days in the country but I don't remember right now.

If you make quick visits of less than 30 days to Thailand under the VEE, are they below immigration radar?

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Currently, it is six visa exempt entries since some time in the middle of 2015. On your larger question of when visa exempt entry becomes a risk, there is no hard and fast rule. It may (not certain) depend on the airport you arrive at, and definitely depends on the immigration official, some of whom are stricter than others. The biggest factors, it is believed, are time spent in country over the last 12 months, whether you have had long periods in Thailand at any point in the last few years with minimal breaks in between, and whether you are trying to return visa exempt immediately after another tourist entry (especially when returning by air from a nearby country). My advice would be not to risk visa exempt entry by air if

  • you have spent longer than 90 days in the last 12 months in Thailand on tourist entries; or
  • you have had any period of six months almost continuous stay in Thailand at any stage over the last three years.

This is based on my gut feel, not any knowledge of the criteria used at any specific airport, or by any specific immigration official.

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8 hours ago, Gino122 said:

If you make quick visits of less than 30 days to Thailand under the VEE, are they below immigration radar?

No. Immigration are alerted by the system after 6 Visa exempt entries.

Whether you stay for 10 or 30 days is irrelevant.

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11 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

No. Immigration are alerted by the system after 6 Visa exempt entries.

Whether you stay for 10 or 30 days is irrelevant.

Ok, for this reason I asked if it should be six visa exempt entries during your lifetime or during some years. In the last entry, BritTim tells that it is six VEE from 2015

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5 hours ago, BritTim said:

Currently, it is six visa exempt entries since some time in the middle of 2015. On your larger question of when visa exempt entry becomes a risk, there is no hard and fast rule. It may (not certain) depend on the airport you arrive at, and definitely depends on the immigration official, some of whom are stricter than others. The biggest factors, it is believed, are time spent in country over the last 12 months, whether you have had long periods in Thailand at any point in the last few years with minimal breaks in between, and whether you are trying to return visa exempt immediately after another tourist entry (especially when returning by air from a nearby country). My advice would be not to risk visa exempt entry by air if

  • you have spent longer than 90 days in the last 12 months in Thailand on tourist entries; or
  • you have had any period of six months almost continuous stay in Thailand at any stage over the last three years.

This is based on my gut feel, not any knowledge of the criteria used at any specific airport, or by any specific immigration official.

Thank you for your answer. So, if I stay a gap year in my home country, this problem could be a bit better, I suppose

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15 minutes ago, Gino122 said:

Ok, for this reason I asked if it should be six visa exempt entries during your lifetime or during some years. In the last entry, BritTim tells that it is six VEE from 2015

Immigration officers have been advised to use their own discretion to determine whether you are a genuine Tourist, or possibly entering for other reasons. The alert is after 6 entries, but they will look at the frequency of entries as well.

 

You could have entered 8 times since 2015, but if the frequency is twice a year for 2/3 weeks at a time that would be expected for the genuine tourist. I know 'oil workers' who have Thai wives/family and genuinely enter 4 times a year to visit , but this year they have all been stopped for questioning and instructed to get the correct Visa for the purpose of their visits.

They were allowed in this time, but a note of warning has been registered on the system.

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I have a friend who lives in a neighbouring country which can be evidenced by visas in his passport. He has been coming and going every three months on visa exempt for the last 10 years but he only stays about 2 weeks. He has never had any problem. He says it's because:

1. He is outside the normal working age.

2. He has a history of only staying for a short time and never overstays.

3. He has a return ticket. 

4. He has only ever been asked once why he comes to Thailand and he told them he needed to see a     doctor which apparently was an acceptable reason. (remember TAT claiming that Thailand would become a HUB of medical tourism - good excuse, blame TAT).

 

He has never been asked to show evidence of funds available.

I think immigration knows who is abusing the system and who is not. 

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'

I have read something related to 180 days in the country but I don't remember right now.

If you make quick visits of less than 30 days to Thailand under the VEE, are they below immigration radar?'

 

I traveled for 4.5 years mainly with VE, and hardly had any issues. Once the IO warned me about the 180d limit, but he still let me through. My visits were mostly 2 weeks in TH, 2 weeks abroad in Europe, so clearly not someone working illegally. Still I got myself approx 4 TV during the 4th year as I was getting cautious. I think one key issue that saved me from trouble was 1) I mostly used the priority lane immigration flying business and 2) I always dress up well and have no tattoos, flip flops, Singha T-shirts or other 'landmarks'.

 

I traveled on VE from 2014 to 2018; but now I have NON-O. My flight frequency was mostly about 1 in-out flight a month.

Edited by somtumwrong
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1 hour ago, Gino122 said:

Thank you for your answer. So, if I stay a gap year in my home country, this problem could be a bit better, I suppose

Definitely better. However, any really long period of continuous stay on tourist entries in the last two or three years could catch the official's eye. If in doubt, get a tourist visa. It is cheap, and easy in most home countries.

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10 minutes ago, somtumwrong said:

Once the IO warned me about the 180d limit,

There is no official limit or rule.

Some IO's have adopted this 180 day rule as guidance to use their discretion when making decisions.

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3 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

There is no official limit or rule.

Some IO's have adopted this 180 day rule as guidance to use their discretion when making decisions.

Actually after a search I'll recant and amend  that statement.

 

There does appear a to be a rule of 3 VEE entries by air within a 6 month period.

30-day Visa Exemption Scheme

 

Passport holders of the countries eligible for Tourist Visa Exemption Scheme are not required to obtain a visa when entering Thailand for tourism purposes and will be permitted to stay in Thailand for a period not exceeding 30 days on each visit (please click on the list for more details). 

 

Foreigners who enter Thailand under this Tourist Visa Exemption Scheme may only do so for 30 days at one time with a maximum of 3 times in a 6-month period by flight and 2 times a year for overland crossing.

http://www.thaiembassy.org/london/en/services/7742/84451-Tourist-Visa.html

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Actually after a search I'll recant and amend  that statement.

 

There does appear a to be a rule of 3 VEE entries by air within a 6 month period.

30-day Visa Exemption Scheme

 

Passport holders of the countries eligible for Tourist Visa Exemption Scheme are not required to obtain a visa when entering Thailand for tourism purposes and will be permitted to stay in Thailand for a period not exceeding 30 days on each visit (please click on the list for more details). 

 

Foreigners who enter Thailand under this Tourist Visa Exemption Scheme may only do so for 30 days at one time with a maximum of 3 times in a 6-month period by flight and 2 times a year for overland crossing.

http://www.thaiembassy.org/london/en/services/7742/84451-Tourist-Visa.html

 

 

But take into account that VEE can be extended at Immigration Offices for 30 days more. So, if you summarize 3 VEE and 3 extensions of stay, we have the 180 days (6 months) you were talking about.

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7 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Actually after a search I'll recant and amend  that statement.

 

There does appear a to be a rule of 3 VEE entries by air within a 6 month period.

30-day Visa Exemption Scheme

 

Passport holders of the countries eligible for Tourist Visa Exemption Scheme are not required to obtain a visa when entering Thailand for tourism purposes and will be permitted to stay in Thailand for a period not exceeding 30 days on each visit (please click on the list for more details). 

 

Foreigners who enter Thailand under this Tourist Visa Exemption Scheme may only do so for 30 days at one time with a maximum of 3 times in a 6-month period by flight and 2 times a year for overland crossing.

http://www.thaiembassy.org/london/en/services/7742/84451-Tourist-Visa.html

I would take any information about immigration matters on a Thai embassy website with a large grain of salt. Those websites are notoriously unreliable when it comes to the rules applied by the Immigration Bureau.

 

The limit of two visa exempt entries by land has been announced in an official order. The limit by air cited in the link seems highly dubious for a number of reasons. It has never been official announced. In theory, it would allow you to live full time on visa exempt entries. Three entries each extended for a further 30 days gives you 177 nights in Thailand meaning only six days outside in a typical six month period. Meanwhile, apparently, someone entering for four weekends (8 nights) over a six month period would supposedly not be able to enter visa exempt. I suspect the purported rule on the embassy website reflects a typical case of Chinese whispers. It feels like someone taking the rule in force for a short period a decade ago of 90 days in six months on visa exempt entries, and deciding (i) that it means three visa exempt entries; and (ii) that it is still in force.

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16 minutes ago, BritTim said:

I would take any information about immigration matters on a Thai embassy website with a large grain of salt. Those websites are notoriously unreliable when it comes to the rules applied by the Immigration Bureau.

I earlier had the same information from the MFA website, but buggered if I can find it again.

Knew I should have saved the page...…...damn!

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6 hours ago, Gino122 said:

Ok, for this reason I asked if it should be six visa exempt entries during your lifetime or during some years. In the last entry, BritTim tells that it is six VEE from 2015

I land at swampy every 3 to 4 weeks and stay 10to 16 days. Been doing this for three years. Never had a problem, but my pattern shows I am not trying to live in Thailand long term which is what immigration are concerned about in my opinion. 

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2 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Foreigners who enter Thailand under this Tourist Visa Exemption Scheme may only do so for 30 days at one time with a maximum of 3 times in a 6-month period by flight and 2 times a year for overland crossing.

http://www.thaiembassy.org/london/en/services/7742/84451-Tourist-Visa.html

That is incorrect info. The are referring to the 90 days in 6 month rule that was rescinded in 2008 when the 15 day entry rule at land border crossings (also rescinded now) went into effect. They have never gotten the message about that old rule being rescinded.

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I just counted all my vee stamps. Since 2012 I have exactly 50. Majority of my stays are not more than 10 days. I have never been stopped, or asked any questions. Once they referred to me as my professional title (under which I don’t receive any stamp in my passport on entry) which I found weird, but made me realize they are tracking me. 

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On 8/10/2018 at 4:04 PM, ubonjoe said:

That is incorrect info. The are referring to the 90 days in 6 month rule that was rescinded in 2008 when the 15 day entry rule at land border crossings (also rescinded now) went into effect. They have never gotten the message about that old rule being rescinded.

Trying to search some information about this topic, I have found that the Thai Embassy in Madrid (Spain) also says something related to the 90 days stuff. I quote to you the Spanish sentence and I translate it into English. What do you think about this?

 

Spanish version

"Los extranjeros que ingresen al Reino bajo la categoría de Exención de Visa de Turista pueden reingresar y permanecer en Tailandia

por un período acumulativo de hasta 90 días dentro de un período de 6 meses contados a partir de la fecha de la primera entrada."

English version

"Foreigners who enter the Kingdom under the Tourist Visa Exemption category can re-enter and stay in Thailand for a cumulative period of up to 90 days within a period of 6 months counted from the date of the first entry."

 

Official links

http://www.thaiembassy.org/madrid/contents/images/text_editor/files/Exencion Visa Turista.pdf

http://www.thaiembassy.org/madrid/en/services/19412-Visa.html

Edited by ganegon
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14 minutes ago, ganegon said:

English version

"Foreigners who enter the Kingdom under the Tourist Visa Waiver category can re-enter and stay in Thailand for a cumulative period of up to 90 days within a period of 6 months counted from the date of the first entry."

Screenshot of a comparison of the police order that created that and the one rescinding it in November of 2008.

 

image.png.e5420e1699b7a1d586aab1fafc784c83.png

Source: visa exemp tPO 778-2551_en.pdf

 

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45 minutes ago, ganegon said:

So, it seems something that some embassies have not corrected at all. Thank you so much for the help, Joe. Useful as usual! ?

Do not trust embassy websites (or officials) on immigration questions. They are notoriously unreliable. Only what they say about their own services can (mostly) be trusted.

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  • 2 weeks later...

May I ask,

 

Does the 6th exemption history include land border crossing?

 

Does airport immigration care only about the entry with exemption by air?

 

If you reach that bar (enter by air with 6 times exemptions by air) and in case you want to just get new fresh 30-60 days of staying, do you still can do land border crossing?
 

Thank you.

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19 minutes ago, Paduppa said:

Does the 6th exemption history include land border crossing?

Yes if does.

20 minutes ago, Paduppa said:

Does airport immigration care only about the entry with exemption by air?

No

20 minutes ago, Paduppa said:

If you reach that bar (enter by air with 6 times exemptions by air) and in case you want to just get new fresh 30-60 days of staying, do you still can do land border crossing?

The 6 visa exempt entry alert does not mean you cannot enter by air or land anymore. It is only to inform the officer to check if you attempting to live here on them by doing them back to back.

At land border crossings there is a limit of 2 visa exempt entries per calendar year.

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35 minutes ago, Paduppa said:

If you reach that bar (enter by air with 6 times exemptions by air) and in case you want to just get new fresh 30-60 days of staying, do you still can do land border crossing?

The only checkpoints that will cause you a problem are Poipet/Aranya and some airports (both in Bangkok, plus some others).  All other land-border crossings are reported "friendly."

 

Per recent reports, you can get 2x Visa-Exempt entries by land per calendar-year at friendly land border-crossings without problems - regardless of how many you have total (since 2015, when they started counting).   You can also enter with a valid Tourist Visa at these entry-points without a problem.

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9 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The only checkpoints that will cause you a problem are Poipet/Aranya and some airports (both in Bangkok, plus some others).  All other land-border crossings are reported "friendly."

 

Per recent reports, you can get 2x Visa-Exempt entries by land per calendar-year at friendly land border-crossings without problems - regardless of how many you have total (since 2015, when they started counting).   You can also enter with a valid Tourist Visa at these entry-points without a problem.

What if you reached the bar, althought you get a Tourist Visa and enter at airport, let's say DMK?

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28 minutes ago, Paduppa said:

What if you reached the bar, althought you get a Tourist Visa and enter at airport, let's say DMK?

Entering with a Tourist Visa by air is much safer than trying to enter visa-exempt.  But, there are several reports of people being interrogated and/or denied entry if they have a history of longer-stay in Thailand - even if that longer-stay was in past years, and they have been gone for months, since (so clearly not working illegally). 

 

The latest rejection-stamp being used at airports states that the person cannot afford their stay in Thailand - even if they have the 20K Baht "pocket money" to show.  There is no known way to counter this reason for denial-of-entry.  The interrogations reported do not involve requests for evidence of financial-solvency, so it is clear this is not the "real why" of the denial of entry.

 

I quit entering the country by air years ago, due to the reported problems and dishonesty at airport-checkpoints.  My logic: Why suffer oneself to that stress/worry, when there is a sure way to avoid it?  Others report entering with Tourist Visas by-air for years without issue.  As they say here, "Up to You."

 

If I had to fly in, for some reason, I would use Chang Mai.  There are no reports at that location, of which I am aware, of denial-of-entry with a Tourist Visa + 20K Baht cash.  But, the lack of horror-stories reported could be due to fewer people using that entry-point.

Edited by JackThompson
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1 hour ago, Paduppa said:

What if you reached the bar, althought you get a Tourist Visa and enter at airport, let's say DMK?

You are very unlikely to be denied entry if you have a visa, unless there are significant red flags over and above your extended periods in Thailand. However, you may be the subject of "increased scrutiny" to see if the officials can find evidence of illegal working. There have been a handful of reports of denied entry for those with visas. Actually, my impression is that Non Ed visas are more risky than tourist visas, with officials assessing your Thai skills to see if you are really a student. There are suggestions that your skin color and country of origin may occasionally be a factor in immigration decisions.

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Have said the same previously but arrive at immigration properly dressed with a big smile and it can make a mockery of any supposed rules.

Stand there looking like a tramp with tattoos on your hands and neck in t shirt and flip flops and expect to face the rules at their harshest level and rightly so.

I have only had one immigration officer ask a few more questions than normal in 170 odd arrivals

 

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