UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[webfact]

UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

 

Anti-Brexit demonstrators wave EU and Union flags opposite the Houses of Parliament, in London, Britain, June 19, 2018. REUTERS/Henry Nicholls

 

LONDON (Reuters) - If Brexit talks break down without a deal, half of Britons believe the final decision over whether to leave the European Union should be taken by the public in a referendum, according to a survey of more than 10,000 people published on Friday.

 

The YouGov poll, commissioned by the pro-referendum "People's Vote" campaign group, found twice as many respondents favoured the public rather than parliament taking a decision between remaining in the EU or leaving the bloc without a deal.

 

With less than eight months until Britain is due to leave the EU, Prime Minister Theresa May has yet to find a proposal to maintain economic ties with the bloc that pleases both sides of her divided party and is acceptable to negotiators in Brussels.

 

At the weekend, British trade minister Liam Fox warned he saw a 60 percent chance of a "no-deal" Brexit, which would see the world's fifth-largest economy quit the EU on March 29, 2019 without a trade agreement. Concerns over the prospect of that outcome have weighed on sterling.

 

The poll, conducted July 31-Aug. 7, found 45 percent of voters supported holding a referendum on completion of the negotiations whatever the outcome, while 34 percent opposed it.

 

Asked who should make the decision between staying or leaving if the talks broke down without a deal, 50 percent said it should be the public voting in a referendum while 25 percent said it should be lawmakers voting in parliament.

 

Faced with a three-way choice between remaining in the EU, leaving without a deal or accepting May's deal, 40 percent favoured remaining, 27 percent wanted to leave without a deal and 11 percent would vote to leave with the deal proposed.

 

May has repeatedly ruled out holding another public vote on Brexit, saying the public spoke at a June 23, 2016, referendum, in which 51.9 percent of the votes cast backed leaving the EU while 48.1 percent backed staying.

 

The poll also found 74 percent of those questioned believed the negotiations were going badly, and 68 percent thought that made it likely Britain would get a bad deal.

 

(Reporting by Kylie MacLellan; editing by Stephen Addison)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-08-10

[Rally123]

5 minutes ago, webfact said:

 

LONDON (Reuters) - If Brexit talks break down without a deal, half of Britons believe the final decision over whether to leave the European Union should be taken by the public in a referendum, according to a survey of more than 10,000 people published on Friday.

The people made their decision. Remoaner clutching at straws again? 

[vogie]

Remainers don't like Joe Public voting, best leave it as it is and just leave.

[z42]

Completely agree. Then and now I could see merits and arguments in both sides.

However, the UK government has simply not been firm enough in its attempts to get anything like a good deal for the UK. The EU heirachy haven't given an inch despite the UK population voting on leaving, they as a bloc seem hellbent on punishing the people for voting out 

 

I personally think it's no use either way. Genie is out of the bottle. Man up and get out and be done with it.

 

Of course it'll be turbulent for a while, but surely another vote or nothing really changes is simply a non-starter

[Bluespunk]

Ha ha ha, love the brexiteers claiming the result of a democratic vote, means you can never have another vote on the issue. 

 

Why would you deny the people a vote on what brexit ultimately looks like?

[smedly]

8 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Ha ha ha, love the brexiteers claiming the result of a democratic vote, means you can never have another vote on the issue. 

 

Hilarious. 

at least the UK people got a vote

 

Most of what goes in Brussels the people have no say in the matter and the unelected commission run everything without the possibility of removal - how hilarious is that

 

I have seen polls that say the complete opposite to the one quoted in the OP but the fact remains the people voted to leave 

[Bluespunk]

6 minutes ago, smedly said:

at least the UK people got a vote

 

Most of what goes in Brussels the people have no say in the matter and the unelected commission run everything without the possibility of removal - how hilarious is that

 

I have seen polls that say the complete opposite to the one quoted in the OP but the fact remains the people voted to leave 

Never said they didn’t. 

 

Just don't see why there cannot be a vote once there is a final brexit deal and all it’s consequences are clear. 

 

Brexit/no brexit, not my right to choose. I don’t live in the U.K. anymore.

 

However the authoritarian, undemocractic, “no brexit votes ever again” attitude of some brexiteers does cause me concern

[My Thai Life]

10 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Just don't see why there cannot be a vote once there is a final brexit deal and all it’s consequences are clear. 

Its consequences will not be clear for years, particularly if there's a hard brexit, as it depends on the ongoing policies of our government and the EU, and not least of all on which UK political party is in power over the next few years, and who it is led by.

 

A major problem with remainers calling for another referendum is that it sets the precedent for exiters to call for a third referendum.

 

 

[Bluespunk]

6 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

Its consequences will not be clear for years, particularly if there's a hard brexit, as it depends on the ongoing policies of our government and the EU, and not least of all on which UK political party is in power over the next few years, and who it is led by.

 

A major problem with remainers calling for another referendum is that it sets the precedent for exiters to call for a third referendum.

 

 

So be it. 

 

Thats what democracy is. 

[My Thai Life]

Just now, Bluespunk said:

Thats what democracy is. 

100% wrong. Democracy and government by perpetual plebiscite are fundamentally different.

[bristolboy]

Just now, My Thai Life said:

100% wrong. Democracy and government by perpetual plebiscite are fundamentally different.

only if in fact there are perpetual plebescites. 2  hardly constitutes perpetuity.

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, My Thai Life said:

100% wrong. Democracy and government by perpetual plebiscite are fundamentally different.

100% wrong. 

 

Calling for a referendum is a democratic right. 

[Esso49]

2 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

So be it. 

 

Thats what democracy is. 

Unfortunately the Brexit commotion is now less about leaving the EU, and the farcical ongoing negotiations, but very much more about the future of the conservative party.   Basically,  due to their bungling and spineless negotiation most of the British public are sick to death with the Tory in-fighting.  Regardless of how arguably useless Jeremy Corbyn would be as a PM, the instinctive reaction to this shambles will be to vote in any other potential party.   The conservatives are running scared that a shift to the left will become a rout and hence their own very futures on the UK political gravy train will be endangered. Whether the next general election will become before or after the Brexit date is debatable but sure as hell the current government will not go its' full term. 

 

Remember David Cameroon the guy that got the UK divided ? Guess he is away with all his multi million pound book deals and directorships and just keeping his head down in some offshore Tory protected tax haven, metaphorically speaking.

[smedly]

51 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Never said they didn’t. 

 

Just don't see why there cannot be a vote once there is a final brexit deal and all it’s consequences are clear. 

 

Brexit/no brexit, not my right to choose. I don’t live in the U.K. anymore.

 

However the authoritarian, undemocractic, “no brexit votes ever again” attitude of some brexiteers does cause me concern

the people didn't vote for a deal they voted to leave and that is what should have happened, all this deal stuff is outside the scope of leaving - it confused the issue.

 

Talks on a trade deal should be no part of leaving the EU they are a separate issue, when ART 50 was triggered the UK should have been working on leaving under WTO - if the EU wanted to talk trade deal while that was going on then fine, it is all this deal stuff that has caused the confusion across the board.

 

The EU Commission does not want a powerhouse trader like the  UK with their own world trade freedom competing against them - they will stop at nothing to prevent that as has been shown so far

 

The people voted to leave the EU not soft not hard ……………………...Leave 100% Leave

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, smedly said:

the people didn't vote for a deal they voted to leave and that is what should have happened, all this deal stuff is outside the scope of leaving - it confused the issue.

 

Talks on a trade deal should be no part of leaving the EU they are a separate issue, when ART 50 was triggered the UK should have been working on leaving under WTO - if the EU wanted to talk trade deal while that was going on then fine, it is all this deal stuff that has caused the confusion across the board.

 

The EU Commission does not want a powerhouse trader like the  UK with their own world trade freedom competing against them - they will stop at nothing to prevent that as has been shown so far

 

The people voted to leave the EU not soft not hard ……………………...Leave 100% Leave

The people should have the right to vote on any final deal. 

[smedly]

25 minutes ago, Esso49 said:

Unfortunately the Brexit commotion is now less about leaving the EU, and the farcical ongoing negotiations, but very much more about the future of the conservative party.   Basically,  due to their bungling and spineless negotiation most of the British public are sick to death with the Tory in-fighting.  Regardless of how arguably useless Jeremy Corbyn would be as a PM, the instinctive reaction to this shambles will be to vote in any other potential party.   The conservatives are running scared that a shift to the left will become a rout and hence their own very futures on the UK political gravy train will be endangered. Whether the next general election will become before or after the Brexit date is debatable but sure as hell the current government will not go its' full term. 

 

Remember David Cameroon the guy that got the UK divided ? Guess he is away with all his multi million pound book deals and directorships and just keeping his head down in some offshore Tory protected tax haven, metaphorically speaking.

The house of commons is confused about all this deal talk - it should never have been part of the leaving process - if they want to debate about a trade deal then that should have been after we had fully left, the UK will be striking up trade deals all over the world - the EU should have been no different 

[animalmagic]

I'll give the guy holding the Union Jack upside down the benefit of the doubt, perhaps he is intentionally trying to signal distress!

[mfd101]

1 hour ago, z42 said:

he UK government has simply not been firm enough in its attempts to get anything like a good deal for the UK. The EU heirachy haven't given an inch despite the UK population voting on leaving,

There IS no good deal to be had on leaving the EU and there cannot be. That's the whole point of the EU's approach to the negotiations. Expecting anything else is naive. And stamping your little foot won't change anything.

 

All there is for Britain - at least for the next 10 years - is a few minor variations on the theme Disaster.

[KiChakayan]

TIUK

[sammieuk1]

A revote with the facts should be the natural way forward the aspirations of Boris Gove and Faranatang have now been proved useless in a global economy. The EU will at some stage fall apart from its own miss management .After more than two years of constant bickering resignations the DUP propping up a weak inept government all we have to show for it  is fast rising prices and a destroyed pound and a massive bill?

[tomacht8]

12 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

There IS no good deal to be had on leaving the EU and there cannot be. That's the whole point of the EU's approach to the negotiations. Expecting anything else is naive. And stamping your little foot won't change anything.

 

All there is for Britain - at least for the next 10 years - is a few minor variations on the theme Disaster.

It is like it is.
If you no longer want to be a member of a club and do not like the club rules anymore, you step out.
Finished.

[smedly]

5 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

The people should have the right to vote on any final deal. 

what deal ? - they didn't vote for a deal they voted to leave period, that was what the referendum was for - leave the EU or stay in, nothing about a deal, nothing about soft/hard they voted to leave the EU period

 

If a trade deal can be sorted out with the EU after we leave then fine - do they get a vote on that ? do they get a vote on trade deals with China - USA - Australia - India - Japan ?????? are you proposing there is a referendum every time the UK negotiates a trade deal with another country ?

 

A trade deal with the EU is not and never should have been part of the leaving process - it is exactly what has confused the issue, there is nothing in ART 50 that requires any sort of trade deal, the referendum did not say "leaving the EU with a trade deal" or staying in, of course certain divisive people continue to say the people didn't know what they voted for - that is a fundamental lie, everyone knew exactly what leaving meant, we have people like Anna Soubry constantly trying to justify themselves by making this claim - it is absolute nonsense - she was elected by her constituents on the CON manifesto that clearly stated leaving the EU - she was elected and now stands in the house doing the exact opposite and her constituents that voted her in to that seat cannot remove her until another General Election - politically she is finished along with her band of supporters in the house

 

Those MP's across the house that refuse to accept the will of the people and the clear result of the referendum should have joined the Libdems 

 

People keep referring to Mogg and the other leave supporters in the house as rebels when in fact all they are doing is supporting the result of the referendum - they are hardly rebels, it is the other crew that are ignoring the result are the ones causing all the problems in the house. and there is equal confusion in the LAB party it just doesn't get exposed so much because they are not in government.  

[Rally123]

1 hour ago, Bluespunk said:

Calling for a referendum is a democratic right. 

Errr we had it. We voted to leave. So really we cant have another referendum on it until we've left. Good look with that Remoaners. 

Since the start of this charade it's clear that a hard Brexit would be the final result. 
So carry on Remoaners. Waaaa waaaa waaaa.

[whatsupdoc]

20 minutes ago, smedly said:

The house of commons is confused about all this deal talk - it should never have been part of the leaving process - if they want to debate about a trade deal then that should have been after we had fully left, the UK will be striking up trade deals all over the world - the EU should have been no different 

I won't argue with you but I'd love to see how the UK will be striking up all those trade deals. After a no deal Brexit they will have to start from scratch so a lot to catch up with.

How long do you think it will take for just one deal (with whatever country/trade bloc you like)? And how will the UK manage to do a lot of trade negotiations simultaneously?

So far, the UK doesn't seem that good in negotiating....

[smedly]

7 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

It is like it is.
If you no longer want to be a member of a club and do not like the club rules anymore, you step out.
Finished.

Exactly

[smedly]

3 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

I won't argue with you but I'd love to see how the UK will be striking up all those trade deals. After a no deal Brexit they will have to start from scratch so a lot to catch up with.

How long do you think it will take for just one deal (with whatever country/trade bloc you like)? And how will the UK manage to do a lot of trade negotiations simultaneously?

So far, the UK doesn't seem that good in negotiating....

Let me remind you of something - 80% of UK trade is outside of the EU and is growing fast - get with the program, the EU is important but not critical, we will always have trade with the EU no matter what happens - even under WTO rules we will still be trading with the EU

 

Some people really need to waken up and stop being led by the press nose ring

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, Rally123 said:

The people made their decision. Remoaner clutching at straws again? 

 

Where does it say that the decision was final and can never be voted on again?

 

Brexiters trying to deny democracy again.

[tomacht8]

1 minute ago, smedly said:

Let me remind you of something - 80% of UK trade is outside of the EU and is growing fast - get with the program, the EU is important but not critical, we will always have trade with the EU no matter what happens - even under WTO rules we will still be trading with the EU

 

Some people really need to waken up and stop being led by the press nose ring

Why then this whole panic?
How the uK deals with its minorities (48% for remain) in its democracy is their business. The split in the country will continue for many years.

If then the economic success fails (until now the uk has not yet a single signature ready trade deal in the pipline), then have fun.

[BwindiBoy]

15 minutes ago, smedly said:

what deal ? - they didn't vote for a deal they voted to leave period, that was what the referendum was for - leave the EU or stay in, nothing about a deal, nothing about soft/hard they voted to leave the EU period

 

If a trade deal can be sorted out with the EU after we leave then fine - do they get a vote on that ? do they get a vote on trade deals with China - USA - Australia - India - Japan ?????? are you proposing there is a referendum every time the UK negotiates a trade deal with another country ?

 

A trade deal with the EU is not and never should have been part of the leaving process - it is exactly what has confused the issue, there is nothing in ART 50 that requires any sort of trade deal, the referendum did not say "leaving the EU with a trade deal" or staying in, of course certain divisive people continue to say the people didn't know what they voted for - that is a fundamental lie, everyone knew exactly what leaving meant, we have people like Anna Soubry constantly trying to justify themselves by making this claim - it is absolute nonsense - she was elected by her constituents on the CON manifesto that clearly stated leaving the EU - she was elected and now stands in the house doing the exact opposite and her constituents that voted her in to that seat cannot remove her until another General Election - politically she is finished along with her band of supporters in the house

 

Those MP's across the house that refuse to accept the will of the people and the clear result of the referendum should have joined the Libdems 

 

People keep referring to Mogg and the other leave supporters in the house as rebels when in fact all they are doing is supporting the result of the referendum - they are hardly rebels, it is the other crew that are ignoring the result are the ones causing all the problems in the house. and there is equal confusion in the LAB party it just doesn't get exposed so much because they are not in government.  

 

I hope you don't mind, but I've just copied and pasted your comment into an email and sent it to myself - I'm not on my own laptop - and titled the email "The best response to a Brexit question ever".  Thank you.

[whatsupdoc]

7 minutes ago, smedly said:

Let me remind you of something - 80% of UK trade is outside of the EU and is growing fast - get with the program, the EU is important but not critical, we will always have trade with the EU no matter what happens - even under WTO rules we will still be trading with the EU

 

Some people really need to waken up and stop being led by the press nose ring

It would be an interesting economic experiment.

Looking forward to the UK applying for rejoining the EU after a couple of years.