Training Your Dog

[macb]

However he does show aggression towards strangers (very typical of breed), no one outside our family can get near him (apart from our staff and one of the guys that delivers our water), so with this in mind I do not allow anyone to enter our home/garden until he is secured by check chain (so I can control him), when ever we take him outside the house he is secure, and people are told not to approach him, also our vet will not allow any Bangkaew in his offices without a muzzle

.

Does he show aggression at the gate before you let them in:

Putting a dog on a chain can actually teach them to be more aggressive because they become frustrated, far better to have control off the Chain.

Thats why you see aggressive when chained all the time because it makes them more defensive and frustrated.

My GSD is formidable at the gate and around the property, he knows the locals that walk past but some he likes and some he dislikes, but if some one visits I point to the lawn and he goes and lays down.

[solent01]

macb, I hope to be in the position one day that I can do the same, but right now my boy is not to that standard of training, yes you are right, he is going mad at people on the lead, but I am very cautious of his behaviour, so I like him to be under control, if he bites anybody it will cost me. I know have a Farang contact in Chiang Mai who will help us with our training, I will keep you all posted, but from what I can see it looks good, I have already received good advice from this person, and this person has a professional setup. I will be there within the next two weeks, I am sure all will be well.

[bina]

it seems to me that u are reinforcing aggressive behavior by 'checking' him and not allowing people to approach him (dont have to pet him, but should be ablte to walk past him) so even 'hard' dogs should be taught to sit quietly or look ahead and ignore bypassers... using distraction like food or a toy anytime anyone goes past and 'getting attention' from your dog; also, keeping him on a good muzzle may let u relax and give him a better message then your tense 'oh no here comes someone lets grab the dog and pull him back' type thing...

if he is muzzled u can work on diversion behavior w/o worrying about him actually biting someone... muzzling should be ok for him as there are good muzzles that allow the dog to breathe and excercise and drink water but prevent bites on people. and use the muzzle all the time in the beginning so he doesnt associate it with unpleasant things like vets but also fun things like walks... i have friends in israel with a amstaff and this is the law here, she's a sweety and has learned to run, play whatever even on the beach with her muzzle... just keep watch that unleashed dogs dont get aggressive with yours...

the diversion part is what nienke and i always talk about: u have to catch the behavior before it happens (someone starts to approach u, u offer your dog: LOOK (or whatever word u want) and toy/hotdog whatever, give it, and keep going ignore the person ) ... u have to give confidence to your dog that u are both ok... if u get prepared for aggressive behavior before it starts, then u may be cueing him into getting aggressive as he reads your reactions (grabbing collar, tying up, pulling back on check chain)....

if u dont trust your dog (i know, he's young, but u should still trust him to follow your lead, or have confidence in u as the leader, but if u feel that he feels he is the leader then he will 'take over' than u really should think again about keeping him; it is kind of tiring to always be on the alert for potential problems...

not sure if this makes sense but tried to show someone this yesterday with a very good mare, who is taking advantage of her new and inexperienced owner by acting up, so he became nervous around her and so she became nervous and created sort of a cycle of unwanted behaviors. your slight lack of confidence makes your dog want to take the lead instead since u cant 'protect and defend and control' him (a strong leader makes strong and solid soldiers, in this case; a unconfident leader makes them nervous and aggressive)...and these dogs need a strong leader (alpha pack theory) since they are very strongly territorial to begin with...

be wary of using aggressive methods to stop aggressive behavior; u want a good protective family dog, not a garage guard dog

ps. forgot, if its nienke working with u then all the better......

[Nienke]

ps. forgot, if its nienke working with u then all the better......

Thank you, Bina, for this great compliment Now, I'd better do a great job, in stead of only talking (I'm very good in that).

Saw the dog yesterday, he's real handsome dog!!

Nienke

[solent01]

Thanks bina for your input, yes Nienke is working with us, and thanks Nienke, I will tell Chego that you think he is rôop lòr

We have had two sessions with Nienke now (2nd was this afternoon), and already we are seeing an improvement, but the basic problem is that my wife and I are molly coddling our dog, and not showing a strong lead (if at all) Of course once Nienke started to explain it seemed so obvious, but if you don't know you simply don't know.

I am so glad that we found Nienke (or rather Nienke found us), thanks Nienke, and thanks Thaivisa, without this forum giving all us expats a place to hangout we may never had found our trainer

Nienke, it took us three and a half hours to get home this evening, we hit a storm at Mae Teang and stayed in it until ten km from home, not fun going through the twisties See you Friday

[Nienke]

Nienke, it took us three and a half hours to get home this evening, we hit a storm at Mae Teang and stayed in it until ten km from home, not fun going through the twisties See you Friday

Blimey, that's no fun, 3 1/2 hrs! It didn't rain at my place untill about 8 or 8.30 (dunno exactly as I left at 7.30) Hope Friday will be better. Now it's nice and cool

Thanks for the compliment

Nienke

[solent01]

Update.......

First and foremost I would like to say that I agree with Nienke's training technique, she is very professional, yet still human, and takes no shit (Non confrontational yet assertive) from the dog (or owners) and leads by good example.

Our dog is slowly coming around to the fact that he is not high up in the pecking order, although we have a long long way to go, some days are good, and others are bad, but ultimately all days are good because we are reinforcing our control over him.

After only two weeks we can see the difference in our dogs behaviour, he still try’s it on mind you, but Nienke has advised us that this may well be the case, until he settles into a lower roll, and when we are more consistent with our handling.

If anyone in or around Chiang Mai needs help with a dog, I would strongly recommend Nienke, she has a web site, but because of forum rules I can not link directly, her web link is available from her profile page.

[OneeyedJohn]

Can't find the "behaviour " thread so excuse me butting in with this question....

What is the reason for dogs to rub themselves in obnoxious smells ( usually from other dead rotten carcasses ) ?

[Nienke]

Can't find the "behaviour " thread so excuse me butting in with this question....

What is the reason for dogs to rub themselves in obnoxious smells ( usually from other dead rotten carcasses ) ?

There is no scientific explanation for this behavior, so nobody is really sure why dogs love to roll themselves in poop, rotten and rotting stinky smells.

The most common believes are that it's an ancient instinct:

* a way of diguising their own senct so that prey animals will not be able to sniff their presence, and/or

* a way to tell the other pack members that they've found something very interesting.

Many dogs also can't appreciate the parfume that goes with many shampoo's and will rub themselves immediately after the bath, in order to get that (for them) disgusting smell of them. Best way to do so, for them, is to roll in something that is like parfume in their minds, but not exactly in ours.

Hope this has answered your question,

Nienke

[OneeyedJohn]

Yes thank you Nienke,

Very interesting replies and I agree that after you bathe them etc, all they wanna do is go get dirty again.

My only thought was they perhaps do it for some kind of self protection.

I've probably met more instances of smelly farangs than smelly dogs anyway.

[sinom]

Hi

New Lang Ahn has moved in with us - see avatar. He's great.!

I've started training him the basics ..... sit .......down ......... walk to heel (using Let's Go). Pup is very responsive to the training (particularly the treats and praise for success).

He's only 2.5 months old at the moment, but intend to send him to proper obedience classes after 4-5 mths. Probably the K9 school Pattaya.

The only problem at the moment is that I also have to train my wife to give the dog proper training !! I'm at work all day so she "entertains" the dog for most of the day with games / toys etc. but no training structure, as she doesn't fully understand the concept.

Can anybody recommend any god Thai language dog training book's or websites that will give her a better idea ?

woof woof .................

[Nienke]

Hi

New Lang Ahn has moved in with us - see avatar. He's great.!

I've started training him the basics ..... sit .......down ......... walk to heel (using Let's Go). Pup is very responsive to the training (particularly the treats and praise for success).

He's only 2.5 months old at the moment, but intend to send him to proper obedience classes after 4-5 mths. Probably the K9 school Pattaya.

The only problem at the moment is that I also have to train my wife to give the dog proper training !! I'm at work all day so she "entertains" the dog for most of the day with games / toys etc. but no training structure, as she doesn't fully understand the concept.

Can anybody recommend any god Thai language dog training book's or websites that will give her a better idea ?

woof woof .................

What a very cute little puppy he is!

I've seen, but not really read, a Thai dog training manual written by a Thai female dog instructor who runs a dog training school in Bangkok. But I'm sorry I can't help you with name of the writer, title of the book or even the address and name of the dog training school as I didn't bought the book.

I remember the book as it explains step by step how to train basic obedience in a dog friendly way. Not with the clicker as I do, but at least with lots of reward. Got the impression it was quite a nice training manual. Sorry, can't help you further.

If you plan to send your dog to a training school, I suggest to send him to a more dog friendly school. Maybe the school from lady who wrote that book.

Nienke

[sinom]

I wasn't familiar with clicker training - just googled it, sounds interesting.

Do you know if you can get the kits in Thailand - clicker plus VDO etc.

Do you solely use the clicker as a form of command or is it normal command plus clicker ?

advice welcomed

thanks

[Nienke]

I wasn't familiar with clicker training - just googled it, sounds interesting.

Do you know if you can get the kits in Thailand - clicker plus VDO etc.

Do you solely use the clicker as a form of command or is it normal command plus clicker ?

advice welcomed

thanks

Hi,

A clicker is a training device that one uses when teaching new behaviors together with the commands. The clicker is not used as an command but as a kind of communication device that tells the dog that what s/he's doing right at that moment (at the moment of the click) is the behavior you wanted to see. A click is ALWAYS followed by a reward for the dog that is experienced as such by the dog (and not by the owner who thinks it is a reward). A reward can be food, touch, soft word, play, depending on the dog's need and desire at that moment and under those circumstances. Food is the main reward that's used as most animals loves to work for a delicious treat. It is NOT that a dog or any other animal species is starved. (something that some traditional dog trainers still apply in there training in order to force it to work and obey due to hunger, unfortunately).

A clicker is initially a neutral sound to a dog, that needs to be introduced in order to give it a meaning. But it's mainly the owner who needs to learn how to use the clicker. Once the dog starts understanding what is required from him/her, the use of the clicker becomes less and less. And once a behavior has rooted in and a cue (command) has been attached to the particular behavior and understood by the dog, then the clicker is not needed anymore.

The nice thing with clicker training is that one focusses on the desired behavior instead on everything that is not desired. This is, of course, to the dog way much more clear (after all with the click you tell the dog that what he just did is what you wanted him to do ... come and get your reward) and way much more dog friendly, keeping the dog's trust and spirit in tact.

Clicker training or this kind of method is not only used in dog training. On the contrary, it comes from dolphin training.

Cats, parrots and other bird species, horses, even gold fish and wild life species have been trained by using this method.

It is used a lot in behavior problem modification in dogs with great results.

At my kennel/dog training school I work primarily with the clicker and I really love it.

At the moment I'm training a dog with the clicker who, without a thought, would bite whatever, people, other dogs, other animals. Now, he's slowly coming around. I already can walk past other dogs AND people without him luching at them and trying to full blown attack, in stead he pays full attention to me voluntarily .

It's so much fun to see him changing.

In Chiang Mai, where I live, I'm the only one who has clickers. I haven't heard if in Bangkok clickers are for sale, let alone books, DVD's etc. I also haven't heard of any other dog training school where they use the cliker as a training device, but that doesn't mean there isn't any in Thailand. However, if you may come across a dog training school where they use both methods, that is the clicker methods and the traditional punishment based methods, I wouldn't recommend them. Because, once one has seen and understood the benefits of the clicker method one doesn't want to go back nor use the traditional method anymore.

I hope I've been able to answer your questions. If you would like to know more on the clicker training, please, feel free to PM me.

Nienke

[bina]

nienke,

u dont need a clicker per se; u can use anything in place of it that is a specific sound or signal so no need to buy one. a bell or a particular whistle or a flashing light or whatever, since u are using it only as a marker ('good') ; even a pen click sound can be used (u know, the ball point pen click )... or the knocking sound of a collar clip (the bigger ones used for atttatching a lead to a collar)...

bina

[Nienke]

nienke,

u dont need a clicker per se; u can use anything in place of it that is a specific sound or signal so no need to buy one. a bell or a particular whistle or a flashing light or whatever, since u are using it only as a marker ('good') ; even a pen click sound can be used (u know, the ball point pen click )... or the knocking sound of a collar clip (the bigger ones used for atttatching a lead to a collar)...

bina

So, I'm gonna try to reply again. Lost my post 2 days ago and was sooooo pissed off

Anyway ... Of course, one don't need a clicker per se. Dolphins and other mammals are trained with a flute, so far I know. And I don't think that one would come far in training a goldfish with a clicker, they use some kind of flashing light.

Some people prefer to use a tongue click, as your tongue is always close by (at least I hope so ) I've noticed by myself that I'm better in timing with a clicker than with a tongue click. A pen click should be ok, but again for some reason I'm more comfortable with a clicker than with a pen.

If I think of a bell, I think of such a clock thing with a clapper. That gives too much and too long a sound. Therefore, it's not too clear to the dog. Plus it sometimes doesn't work if the bell is not moved properly (if you understand what I mean).

With the knocking sound of a collar clip, it's difficult to time the 'click' as there is always a long piece of lead in between, and it doesn't work if your dog isn't on the lead. Or you mean you have that clip as a device in your hand, that could be possible.

A flute could be used as well, so far I know they use that in training hunting dogs. But then again, it seems to me not pratical as it's all about the timing. If you have a flute around your neck and then at the right moment need to put the flute in the mouth before you can wistle, you're too late with giving the signal. Or you need to have the flute in your mouth all the time, and then talking becomes difficult, IMO.

It's just that from my experience and the many discussions that I've followed through the years on the use of a clicker vs other devices, I really prefer to work with the clicker. It's because it's fairly easy to use, it has a very neutral, clear and specific sound, and you can time very well with the clicker, and thus easy to understand for the dog.

So, in other words, I prefer to work with the clicker .

Nienke

[bina]

right, the thing u use to attach a collar to a lead but held in your hand as a clicker; bell - well, we use a small tingling bell like an old fashioned dinner bell that goes in a pocket (it works for goats since they think of bottles of milk or food pellets or ice cream when they here the bell)... and i always felt stupid buying something that 1. gets lost constantly or misplacedc in ithe wrong pocket; b. difficult to replace where i live so actually expensive ...

tongue is good since most people do have them, they dont get lost (the same arguement against using pacifiers and using a thumb instead) break, or have to be preplaced... :))

speaking of which, my lhasa likes to use a pacifier!!!

[Nienke]

right, the thing u use to attach a collar to a lead but held in your hand as a clicker; bell - well, we use a small tingling bell like an old fashioned dinner bell that goes in a pocket (it works for goats since they think of bottles of milk or food pellets or ice cream when they here the bell)... and i always felt stupid buying something that 1. gets lost constantly or misplacedc in ithe wrong pocket; b. difficult to replace where i live so actually expensive ...

That's classical or 'Pavlovian 'conditioning allright, but IMO it is not handy when training for certain behaviors and you need to catch a moment within 1/3 of a second that the desired behavior is shown. And that's why I prefer the clicker which has the same problems though with getting lost, wrong pocket and for those who don't have a box full of clickers at home, yep, it is also not that easy to replace here in Thailand

But again this is MY preference and from those who are way much better than I am.

Nienke

[Nickkbh]

I have a few questions.

I am having my first (own) dog soon.Had plenty whe i was a kid....

And i want her to be well behaved.

But how old should a dog be before you can start training it.

And is there something you can do already as a small pup.

She will be 2 months when i get her.

Thanks

Nicolai

[Nienke]

I have a few questions.

I am having my first (own) dog soon.Had plenty whe i was a kid....

And i want her to be well behaved.

But how old should a dog be before you can start training it.

And is there something you can do already as a small pup.

She will be 2 months when i get her.

Thanks

Nicolai

Hi Nicolai,

Education of a dog starts as soon as it enters its new house, whether that's a young puppy or an older dog. And there is an awfull lot you can do and have to do with such a young puppy.

Actually you start already BEFORE the puppy arrives:

* make your house and garden puppy proof. A puppy only knows what's safe and dangerous through learning experience. Think similar as if it's a toddler ... swimming pool/fishpond, poisonous liquids, electrical wiring. But also, puppies chew, play and explore. Think of the laundry, shoes, paws of chairs and tables. Forget about a beautifull garden for the first year of puppies life, or fence parts of.

* set rules on what the dog is allowed to do and what not. For example, jumping up is often learned by the puppy and unconciously taught by the owner during puppyhood. If you don't mind a 40 pound dog jump up at you after having danced through the mud, then there's is no problem. But if you don't be aware that you avoid this problem from developing from the moment the pup arrives. Plus, that everybody in your household has to follow the same rules.

* and that brings me to the following point, train yourself and your family member in being consistent, as consistency is a keypoint in a dog's (and human's) education.

* gather information, books, DVD's and info from the net on how to take care and educate a pup.

Puppy arrived:

* toilet training

* socialization with all sorts of people and children, other dogs and animals, traffic, and all the different environments and circumstances the dog can possibly encounter in its life. All experience should be positive ones in the mind of the puppy.

* puppy basic obedience course in a playful but clear and consistent way and in a dog friendly manner.

Contrary to a general believe, very young puppies do learn and they learn very fast. Many of the undesired behavior has their roots in early puppyhood, where it easily could ahve been avoided or guided in desired behavior.

I'll hope this gets you started

Nienke

[Nickkbh]

I have a few questions.

I am having my first (own) dog soon.Had plenty whe i was a kid....

And i want her to be well behaved.

But how old should a dog be before you can start training it.

And is there something you can do already as a small pup.

She will be 2 months when i get her.

Thanks

Nicolai

Hi Nicolai,

Education of a dog starts as soon as it enters its new house, whether that's a young puppy or an older dog. And there is an awfull lot you can do and have to do with such a young puppy.

Actually you start already BEFORE the puppy arrives:

* make your house and garden puppy proof. A puppy only knows what's safe and dangerous through learning experience. Think similar as if it's a toddler ... swimming pool/fishpond, poisonous liquids, electrical wiring. But also, puppies chew, play and explore. Think of the laundry, shoes, paws of chairs and tables. Forget about a beautifull garden for the first year of puppies life, or fence parts of.

* set rules on what the dog is allowed to do and what not. For example, jumping up is often learned by the puppy and unconciously taught by the owner during puppyhood. If you don't mind a 40 pound dog jump up at you after having danced through the mud, then there's is no problem. But if you don't be aware that you avoid this problem from developing from the moment the pup arrives. Plus, that everybody in your household has to follow the same rules.

* and that brings me to the following point, train yourself and your family member in being consistent, as consistency is a keypoint in a dog's (and human's) education.

* gather information, books, DVD's and info from the net on how to take care and educate a pup.

Puppy arrived:

* toilet training

* socialization with all sorts of people and children, other dogs and animals, traffic, and all the different environments and circumstances the dog can possibly encounter in its life. All experience should be positive ones in the mind of the puppy.

* puppy basic obedience course in a playful but clear and consistent way and in a dog friendly manner.

Contrary to a general believe, very young puppies do learn and they learn very fast. Many of the undesired behavior has their roots in early puppyhood, where it easily could ahve been avoided or guided in desired behavior.

I'll hope this gets you started

Nienke

It certainly will.

Thanks.

I will post more when i most propably need more help:-)

Cheers

Nicolai(soon with thailands first bichon havanese)

[triffid]

I have a puppy about 5 months old. It needs training. It has attached itself to my girlfriend. It has very clearly understood and exploits the fact that she never insists on obedience. She simply coddles and indulges it.

I want to train the pup; beginning with basic obedience. By that I mean simply to come when called. At present he won't unless he feels like it, or if he finds he can't run to my girlfriend instead. If he senses any insistence/frustration in my voice he simply looks to run away or to seek refuge with my girlfriend.

For the most part I can get my girlfriend to cooperate in at least not interfering with my training.

The pup is a miniature pinscher and very intelligent. Maybe this breed isn't a trainable one.

I'd really appreciate advice on the random thoughts below - or otherwize.

Should I refrain from training for now, spend a month or so spoiling it so it becomes as much at ease and secure with me as with my girlfriend - and then start the training?

Should I do bouts of obedience training where 1) the pup has nowhere to run away to, and 2) my girlfriend is not in sight?

Should I simply use friendly repetition and reward the response? Or should there be a degree of authority/insistence in my voice?

Should I insist that my girlfriend change her ways with the pup, or is it possible for the pup to adopt a dominat role with her but accept an obedient role with me?

Sometimes I'm tempted to give up, get another pup which I keep the gf away from, and which I can train from the outset. (This one spent its early monthsw with her.) But is it possible for an obedient, trained pup to live happily in the same house with a spoilt disobedient one?

[macb]

I have a puppy about 5 months old. It needs training. It has attached itself to my girlfriend. It has very clearly understood and exploits the fact that she never insists on obedience. She simply coddles and indulges it.

I want to train the pup; beginning with basic obedience. By that I mean simply to come when called. At present he won't unless he feels like it, or if he finds he can't run to my girlfriend instead. If he senses any insistence/frustration in my voice he simply looks to run away or to seek refuge with my girlfriend.

For the most part I can get my girlfriend to cooperate in at least not interfering with my training.

The pup is a miniature pinscher and very intelligent. Maybe this breed isn't a trainable one.

I'd really appreciate advice on the random thoughts below - or otherwize.

Should I refrain from training for now, spend a month or so spoiling it so it becomes as much at ease and secure with me as with my girlfriend - and then start the training?

Should I do bouts of obedience training where 1) the pup has nowhere to run away to, and 2) my girlfriend is not in sight?

Should I simply use friendly repetition and reward the response? Or should there be a degree of authority/insistence in my voice?

Should I insist that my girlfriend change her ways with the pup, or is it possible for the pup to adopt a dominat role with her but accept an obedient role with me?

Sometimes I'm tempted to give up, get another pup which I keep the gf away from, and which I can train from the outset. (This one spent its early monthsw with her.) But is it possible for an obedient, trained pup to live happily in the same house with a spoilt disobedient one?

All dogs are trainable : reading your post I get the impression that you have not read my training guide which start at the Top :

Read this first it covers all aspects of training :

If you have read my apologies, then it means you have not understood : Let me know then we will take it from there

Cheers

[lazeeboy]

i have found it a lot easier to train bitches than dogs ,anyone else found this

[triffid]

All dogs are trainable : reading your post I get the impression that you have not read my training guide which start at the Top :

Read this first it covers all aspects of training :

If you have read my apologies, then it means you have not understood : Let me know then we will take it from there

Cheers

I did read your initial training posts. But I thought that before getting even to the first lesson on walking the dog on a leash I needed to teach him to come when he is called. But thinking about it now I think you will say the basic obedience comes as part and parcel of the specific lessons - walking, sitting, etc.

Ok. So I'll do that.

The dog is tiny, just 5 months old and of a nervous disposition (miniature pischer breed characteristic perhaps).

Shall I wait till he's older or start the training now?

Can I buy the appropriate chain easily at a thai shop?

Given that he's a nervous and completely unaccustomed to training and a leash how short/long should the sessions be?

I appreciate your interest. But I will go through your posts again carefully and try to apply them to the pup.

[Nienke]

Hi,

I would certainly start training, or better, educating him straight away. Do not wait. Because if you wait, chances are that undesired behavior develops more and roots in, making it more difficult to change it into desired behavior. What behavior is desired and undesired depends fully on the owner.

I definitely do not suggest to use a (choke) chain, but to use a good fitting leather or nylon collar and a 1.5 to 2 meter lead. Sometimes, I even start with a 5 meter lead, depending on the dog.

The most important part of training/education is having the attention of your dog. The way a dog pays attention can differ: in general, a) a dog keeps a close eye on the handler afraid for the next correction, jerk on the lead, or punishment, a dog keeps a close eye on the handler for the next exciting and enjoyable move.

Under A, the dog will show avoidence behavior. He keeps a good eye on the handler in order to avoid an unpleasant feeling, which is the correction. All to often a dog learns that off lead it can avoid this unpleasant behavior by keeping safe distance as soon as the handler signals irritation or worse.

At my kennel, I work according option B. I focus on desired behavior. For example, when my dogs come when I call them I ALWAYS reinforce this behavior by giving them a pet and or praise them. When I started the recall training I would give them a delicious treat as reward. Now, once their behavior has become reliable I mainly praise and/or pet, but on occasion they still get a treat, just to remind them that they better can come quickly when I call, as they never never know if something nice is awaiting them.

The treat needs to be delicious in the dog's mind which can differ under the circumstances, such as in the house he may find a piece of cheap hotdog something he really likes to come for but outside with loads of distraction it may be he won't come for that, but he may come for cheese, boiled chicken or salami. It is important, though, not to use the treat as a lure, meaning don't to show it to the dog. You give it only once he has come close enough to hand it over to him.

In the beginning you ALWAYS need to reward his coming with a delicious treat, making yourself reliable in the mind of the dog. Over time, and keep in mind that this is a step-by-step process, once the dog starts coming immediately on the recall you can start with only praising and petting, with sometimes the treat.

When I teach basic obedience at the kenel or as a dog-with-owner lesson program I always start with attention training. Without the attention of your dog, it is very difficult to get him/her to obey. Once I've taught the dog to pay full attention and to follow me where ever I go, it is actually a piece of cake to teach the dog to follow on the lead, as it is just a change of positioning yourself, not the dog. With punishment based training it is often the dog who is put/dragged into position, which is quite unpleasant to the dog.

With positive reinforcement training the dog will follow because it WANTS to follow, not because it has to follow.

Teaching a dog to obey does not occur only during training sessions on the training field. The most important part occurs during daily life and through a proper interaction with the owner, that is build on mutual respect and trust. For a proper interaction the owner needs to learn the basics about dog behavior (development), -language, hierarchy (in the dog's mind), etc.

Over the years I've trained several Min Pin's and they certainly are trainable. However, the younger you start the better.

Oh, and in answer to part of your question "if it is possible for the pup to adopt a dominant role with your gf": yes, that's certainly possible but not advisable, because if the dog gets a dominant role over your gf he can show this one day by aggression. After all, it is the right of a dominant one to protect that what he thinks is his, to protect his privileges, to ignore commands and tell the lower rank to back off when challenged.

And to the whole question "if it is possible for the pup to adopt a dominant role with your gf but accept an obedient role with me'': yes, that's also very possible. But as you can read the reason above, it is much better when the dog learns to accept the lowest rank in your household.

Nienke

Certified dog trainer

LuckyDogs

[triffid]

Thanks Nienke for your full and very helpful reply.

I would appreciate your time in clarifying some general preliminary queries that come to mind as I read your post:

1) How do I teach the all-important 'paying attention'? Is this done on the leash, so that pretty much ensures I have his attention? How long should this go on at a time? Should I aim to succeed in this first step before attempting anything else? Or can this be done as part of the walking training (as per McB's first lesson)?

2) Is it helpful to the training (or likely to be traumatic) to keep the dog on a leash and under training for as long as possible during the day?

3) How can my girlfriend be most helpful to me? For example shall I tell her to ignore the dog if it runs to her for refuge? Or even to ignore him all the time until he is trained? (The latter will be hard to implement). And when I'm away, what then?

4) If the pup doesn't come when called - eg when he is outside - how do I respond? Ditto if he doesn't respond when he is indoors - ie when I could simply go across and get him?

5) Should one choose a purely reward based method? Is there any harm in mixing in the very occasional admonition with it? Only carrot, never stick?

6) How long should the training - at least the 100% coming when called - take? For a MinPin - such a nervous dog!! Not really my choice - she got it in my absence!! But I need to now train it to make it a normal household member.

[macb]

Thanks Nienke for your full and very helpful reply.

I would appreciate your time in clarifying some general preliminary queries that come to mind as I read your post:

1) How do I teach the all-important 'paying attention'? Is this done on the leash, so that pretty much ensures I have his attention? How long should this go on at a time? Should I aim to succeed in this first step before attempting anything else? Or can this be done as part of the walking training (as per McB's first lesson)?

2) Is it helpful to the training (or likely to be traumatic) to keep the dog on a leash and under training for as long as possible during the day?

3) How can my girlfriend be most helpful to me? For example shall I tell her to ignore the dog if it runs to her for refuge? Or even to ignore him all the time until he is trained? (The latter will be hard to implement). And when I'm away, what then?

4) If the pup doesn't come when called - eg when he is outside - how do I respond? Ditto if he doesn't respond when he is indoors - ie when I could simply go across and get him?

5) Should one choose a purely reward based method? Is there any harm in mixing in the very occasional admonition with it? Only carrot, never stick?

6) How long should the training - at least the 100% coming when called - take? For a MinPin - such a nervous dog!! Not really my choice - she got it in my absence!! But I need to now train it to make it a normal household member.

1. Rewarding with treats is part of what is called shutzun training, it never used to be acceptable in training Police dogs but now it is, I would find a play thing that the dog likes and would become possessive over ie for tug of war etc, once the little fella enjoys playing when you have the play article maybe an old rag your dog will come to you for play or toget his property.

2 You need to get the dog used to being on a lead, but not all the time used the lead in training sessions and for friendly fun walks, not leave on all the time ,you might want to leave a collar on for a while if the dog is not used to this.

3. You and your girlfriend need to bond with the dog together, if your away it is understandable that the dog will be closer to your girlfriend, really if your away for long periods then the main handler should be your g/f, sit together and play with the dog

4 It all takes time dont try to run before you can walk. the recall comes with the heel work, with you little dog you have got to scale down my training guide to suit him be gentle as he is nervous, you need to bond with him first.

5 command a praise verbally and with petting for reassurance with the hand, any light correction is done with the lead remeber your dog is nervous any over correction could make your dog worse and a step backwards command praise command praise with gentle voice and gentle petting

6 How long is a piece of string my friend, training should be little and often, but I think you got to Bond first because you have a nervous little dog, bitches I have found are not more difficult to train no more difficult than males but then I have never found over the years that training a dog was difficult anyway because of the reward and enjoyment I get from it

Hope this helps pal

[triffid]

1. Rewarding with treats is part of what is called shutzun training, it never used to be acceptable in training Police dogs but now it is, I would find a play thing that the dog likes and would become possessive over ie for tug of war etc, once the little fella enjoys playing when you have the play article maybe an old rag your dog will come to you for play or toget his property.

2 You need to get the dog used to being on a lead, but not all the time used the lead in training sessions and for friendly fun walks, not leave on all the time ,you might want to leave a collar on for a while if the dog is not used to this.

3. You and your girlfriend need to bond with the dog together, if your away it is understandable that the dog will be closer to your girlfriend, really if your away for long periods then the main handler should be your g/f, sit together and play with the dog

4 It all takes time dont try to run before you can walk. the recall comes with the heel work, with you little dog you have got to scale down my training guide to suit him be gentle as he is nervous, you need to bond with him first.

5 command a praise verbally and with petting for reassurance with the hand, any light correction is done with the lead remeber your dog is nervous any over correction could make your dog worse and a step backwards command praise command praise with gentle voice and gentle petting

6 How long is a piece of string my friend, training should be little and often, but I think you got to Bond first because you have a nervous little dog, bitches I have found are not more difficult to train no more difficult than males but then I have never found over the years that training a dog was difficult anyway because of the reward and enjoyment I get from it

Hope this helps pal

Thanks Macb

I'll keep all that in mind too. Will try to get my gf on board too - as much as possible. But at present the dog is very attached to her and rather wary of me. So I don't want her there too much or the dog will not bother bonding with me at all.

le

[bina]

first:

having mostly worked with large animals and large dogs, i have been 'reprogrammed' in training ideas with our newest and most spoiled addition: foofoo the lhasa apso....

i am petite but am very dominant (size is all in the mind): so i learned to 'tone down' my voice, actions, etc: i got down to foofoo's eye level and spent time (15 minutes is a long time for a young dog) playing and gently handling him every day; i used nienke's treats method (i always keep something small and tasty in the pocket) and would call out: foofoo and when he would look at me, he got the snack (remember: dinky small pieces... the dog never notices if its a lot or a little, as long as he got the tasty tidbit, i mean fingernail size pieces) -- thats the start of attention training. to get him to notice u.

training is a daily minute by minute thing. it is not like u program the dog, and then it works. it is an ongoing forever process like raising a child. even a well behaved dog needs to have reinforcements for good behaviors and all dogs learn (from us usually) bad habits that have to be reshaped.

if u are calm, then the dog will calm down...

as for u and your girlfriend: agree ahead of time on some rules: is the dog allowed on the sofa? is he allowed outside offlead? can he sit at the dinner table or should he wait in his bed until u finish eating? once u decide on a few rules, u should both stick to them, although dogs very early learn who has which rules.

example: my husband refuses to have foofoo in the bed. foofoo has learned that when anon is in the shower, foofoo can come in to the bedroom, sit on the bed (bed is on the floor) and say hi to me. when he hears the shower turned off, he runs off and waits outside the bedroom.

speak with your dog, in a calm low voice using his name: foofoo wants to go for a walk? where's foofoo's leash? foofoo, lets walk.

u may sound like a baby talker, but it helps the dog and u bond. this baby talk babble is not for use when giving instructions... in which case u will use a firm, calm tone: foofoo, lets go (for when going on the leash). remember that both u and your girlfriend must use the same words/cues when giving instructions, although most dogs learn quickly, several words in whatever languages are spoken at home for most things. foofoo speaks thai and hebrew. nala the boxer speaks hebrew and english. nero (rip) spoke finish and hebrew.

foofoo being a very small dog and a one person dog, i found harder to work with then the boxer and he is much more 'mine' then anon's.

good luck

bina

forgot: try playing, then a short training session in an enclosed area at first, then a play session... u have to see what makes the dog tick: he likes to chase balls? then play ball. he likes walks, then walk and talk. he likes to be brushed, thats good , use that as a reward after a session EVEN IF HE DIDNT DO THINGS LIKE U THINK HE SHOULD.