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macb

Training Your Dog

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1. I try to work with that principle in mind, but often find myself repeating commands, then kick myself

2. Hope so for his sake, I want to be able to take him places with us in confidence that I can control him, I don't want him to be left at home all day.

3. No but I can install it, no problem

4. Yes, we live in Chiang Mai province

To add, our training sessions today were terrible, well maybe I am exaggerating, but we didn't seem to move forward at all, this morning was ok, but this afternoon he just didn’t want to know, I started getting annoyed having to constantly check him with the lead so called it a day, we spent the next hour playing in the garden.

Edit to ask..........

Does anybody know of a school we can go to in or around Chiang Mai that speak English, after all, as macb has rightly pointed out, we both need to learn, and I feel this type of environment would be very beneficial.

Edited by solent01

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I think within the next 3 or 4 days I should be seeing much better results?

dont have high expectations. always just expect the next level (today he heeled well, and sat well, thats if for the day. and dont fight with him to sit. u can stop short and pull back a bit and he will most probably sit back. use your brains not your strenghth. if he pulls on the heel to the left, make sudden right hand turns. if he crosses in front of you, turn left suddely and bump him with your knee. do figure eights. do tight circles, ig circles. stop and start. keep him guessing a bit and paying attention to what u want from him. but FIRST!! DOES HE KNOW TO SIT? HE WONT SIT AT A HEEL IF HE DOESNT KNOW A SIT. AND DONT START A DOWN AND STAY UNTIL HE KNOWS HIS DOWN. YOU HAVE TO BUILD BLOCKS OF TRAINING, U CANT POUR IT ALL ON HIM AT ONCE . (OOps. caps sorry). and he wont stay if he doesnt sit or down well.

also

setbacks occur in training always before u up a level; they happen with us when we learn a language. there is a period of time when we feel that we just arent learning anymore, then after a short break of time, boom!! suddenly it all snaps together.

if u feel frustrated with the session. STOP. do something else, play, work on something else, do something silly, reward with free bonus , shorten the sessions, dont make it boring. remember, kids hate some school things for the same reasons. boring boring boring. and dog attention spans are shorter than most of ours so keep it short, ALWAYS QUIT WHILE U ARE AHEAD.!!!! THE MINUTE U GET THE CORRECT RESPONSE, STOP. PRAISE. GO PLAY. GO EAT AN ICECREAM. FINISH IT FOR THE DAY. the same if u are frustrated. and dont ask too much all at once. one step at a time.

also, if u arent progressing, then go back a step to something u both do well, do it well once, and quit til the next day. it keeps confidence and encourages both of u, rather then ending up frustrated.

(ideas stolen from karen pryor but used by me with all animals from donkeys to goats.)

bina

edit: also, play with him a bit first before the training to get the wildness out of him; a free session. then relax a bit then train. then play, relax and finish. find out whats his weak point? doesnt like to be alone. use ignoring as a tool. likes to ignore u? keep him on leash with u wherever u go in the house and reward him often when he responds nicely like looking at u (ball, small piece of food whatever makes him tick). using a choker and pulling all the time?? then he wont respond. u have to really snap!! the chain and use it sparingly. dont pull all the time. horses tat get pulled on their mouths develop hard mouths and need strong bits. same with a dog. remember, u are bigger and smarter then him. dont be afraid to use small bits of food as prizes (NOT BRIBES). Dont know the breed but if they are like canaani, then they are very independant and u really have to figure out what makes him tick. macb's trick of rag tug of war for heeling might work there actually.

as for grooming u? he licks and cleans u ? or mouths u and treats u like a puppy or toy?

Edited by bina

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Thanks bina, you have raised some interesting points. (Coming from a Pilot training environment, I'm a professional pilot that has flown for many regional airlines in England, but got bored before I went international, so focused on training pilots, I totally understand people, and how to motivate to get the best results. However I have never come across a student that one day is totally enthused with what we are doing, yet the next day just won't listen to a word I am saying. Dogs are so different to people, well, at least mine seems to be, and my dad agrees that my dog seems to be a hard arse/head, being a Thai dog, I am starting to think he is typical Thai (not meaning to put Thai's down but I'm sure you understand what I mean), he seems so bloody hard headed at times, anyway), I will continue with the training as best I can, and of course when I have questions I will ask, thanks again.

Edit to answer :as for grooming u? he licks and cleans u ? or mouths u and treats u like a puppy or toy?

When I groom him he gets annoyed and mouths me then starts licking me (is that normal? some people say no, and I think the same) Some times when we play he tries to dominate me with the odd growl, so of course I turn it around and dominate him, is this also normal? I think no again, so going back to a question I asked, how do I stop this, how should I tell him off? What I do at the moment is in a hard voice say NO, then when he stops, I praise him, it just seems to be going on too long. Maybe I should have got a GSD.

Edited by solent01

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When I groom him he gets annoyed and mouths me then starts licking me (is that normal? some people say no, and I think the same

very normal. i call it sublimated biting; that is, since we are their family they turn their initial reaction - a quick snap or bite as if a puppy or dog was bugging them,- to a lick since they know they cant or shouldnt bite us...BITE INHIBITION. its a good thing.

my boxers do this; my canaani yard dogs are very mouthy and have less 'polite' behavior and just hold on with the mouth, although they just hold and dont actually close their mouth. when he plays of course he growls. all puppies play growl. u dont have to 'dominate' him constantly. adult dogs punish puppis for inappropriate behavior but not always by domination.

if he growls when getting excited and starts mouthing u too much or raising his hackles as if he were serious and not play fighting, then stop the game immediately. get up, go to the bathroom, ignore. secondly, try to stop the play before he gets all wound up and looses control. my boxers play growl (well now just nala, the other is no longer alive) but it si very dfferent from their 'real' nasty growl which would only 'turns on' when they hear someone approachingthe house (they cant see out the door so they would hear footsteps coming up the stairs and growl until they knew who the person was).

try using more diversion techniques. for a hard headed dog,t hat works better then going head on head. as for domination techniques, i found the 'keeping the dog on leash with me at all times' method worked for my male problematic (lots of bad behavior issues i got him at year ad half old)boxer. he became a most polite gentleman .

remember, u must read your dog. u have to use his natural instincts and manipulate them to suit u. he isnt a person who deliberately stops listening to you. if he's not responding, see what u are doing and correct yourself. maybe all he hears is u barking at him. try pitching your voice differently for heeling etc (happy lilt to voice, less 'barky') . u are male and see things as a domincance issue when it may just be lack of communication issue. (watch his tail, ears, eyes is he watching u??? i dont know this breed at all- are they hunter types? very territorial? curious? do they want to please or do they prefer their own thing? ) once u (and i) know more about them as a breed and your dogs' individual personality it is easier. and what is normal?

gsd are dogs with a highlevel of wanting to please the handler. a canaani couldnt care less. but for tangible treats using a 'lottery' type method, they will do lots of stuff. boxers get bored quick. dobies are right on the ball and love to work.

so sit back and watch how your dog plays, how he eats, he responds to others and u will find clues as to what will work... same as people!!! is he motivated to play? does he ask u to play? offer toys? or does he self entertain? what grabs his attention? maybe u have to use more frequent and shorter sessions. what is his pressure threshhold when using a choke chain? i.e. how does he respond to physical pressure? does he move away? fight back? ignore?

i know this sounds crazy, but when u work with different animals u find that these questions really are good guides and help u work with different sorts. i'm sure this breed wasnt bred to work as a gsd or rottie etc were.

hope this helps some

bina

Edited by bina

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Thanks bina, no time right now to answer your questions, but today we just walked to heel and practiced sit, it went perfect, also had a scare/laugh when my next door neighbour let her 3 dogs out (1 Bangkaeow & two Spaniels), her Bangkaeow came tearing down the soi and started having a go at Chigo, and bit him on his side, by this time the 2 Spaniels had caught up and also started to snap at him (this is the first time he has ever seen this type of behaviour, and he looked lost bless him, I was also making my way towards them with my thick bamboo in hand) but quick as a flash he jumped up, ears down, tail planted between his legs, eyes flashing and teeth bared like some thing from the film "Alien", he first bit the Bangkaeow which gave out an almighty yelp and made off for home, then promptly bit the Spaniels as they made off after their big brother, after giving chase for about 25m Chigo stopped, shock his fur and trotted back to my side :o By now my wife had run out from the garden and was already talking and laughing with our neighbour, who apparently was apologising profusely, and said it was good that they just learnt a lesson, her dogs always attack our other neighbours dogs, but they just run home. I guess these 3 will think twice next time. When we went inside Chigo got 2 liver snacks instead of his usual 1.

Edited by solent01

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Thanks Macb for starting this thread. I was just thinking I should search Google for some dog training tips and stumbled upon this. :o

I've started with the SIT command for the first time tonight. ( my previous dog would sit simply by pointing my index finger at her) She's a bout 2 or 3 months old. She sort of figured out what we were trying to achieve but I did not push it too much and for no more than 20 minutes. Leash up, hand pushing the rump with some effort while saying "sit" only once, and she would sit and stay still. I've already got her used to walking on a leash for about a week now.

She's already very attached to us after only a week or so. Spends most of her time with us as I take her to the shop as well in the daytime. She bites a bit but I'm trying to work on that as well. Rawhides help a bit.

Let's see what happens tomorrow night.

Look how playful she was after the session.

Watch it here.

Edited by Tony Clifton

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Watched you short vid:

He is still very young so you must be careful with what you do with him. dont do to much and put to much pressure on him, because this will effect his temprement, keep him happy as well.

Looks like he will turn into a good dog

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HI Macb.

Yeah, we don't exactly know how old she is but I'd say 2 to three months old. I really like her character, I want to be sure she doesn't have any hard to get rid of soi dog behaviour and I think we got her just in time for that. I don't intend on turning her into some sort of a programmed machine/robot dog but really want to work on good behaviour and good obervation/response when I command her. As I mentioned before, my previous dog would sit simply by pointing my index finger once, if I waved it up and down a few times, she knew I wasn't happy with her and would look at me with sorry puppy eyes. :o.

I took a break from my evening walk and her training today. As you say, best not to push her (and me) too much. Looks like she's pretty smart though, in a week or so, she has gone from wetting the floor 5-6 times a day to being house broken as of today, fetches and brings back a ball or rawhide to my hand. I'll emphasize more play than training for some weeks, develop a better buddy relationship before more serious training.

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Mods I wonder if you would consider pinning this Topic:

As it is prevelant to the dog owners, and not everone uses the search feature or scrolls through all the Topics

Your decision of course

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Mods I wonder if you would consider pinning this Topic:

As it is prevelant to the dog owners, and not everone uses the search feature or scrolls through all the Topics

Your decision of course

YES Please Mods! Pin Boy!

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Mods I wonder if you would consider pinning this Topic:

As it is prevelant to the dog owners, and not everone uses the search feature or scrolls through all the Topics

Your decision of course

An excellent idea. This guy is good.

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Started training him properly two weeks ago, up until then he was far too excitable to take it seriously, so I let him get a little older before demanding too much from him. Right now he is walking to heel quite well with a choke chain (hate that word, do we still call it choker in the UK or a check chain?), and sits when told 7 out of ten times, the other 3 times I have to ease him to sit, I have started the down command, but not progressing much with that, I always have ease him down, I am also working on Stay, but again not doing too well, but Down & Stay I have only introduced over the last few days, I think within the next 3 or 4 days I should be seeing much better results? This is my first dog, I have always had dogs in my family as a child, so I'm not new to them, just I have never had to train one before, that was always my dads department.

I am aware though that even the most well trained young dog can revert to the wild, my dads last male GSD (he has had two bitches since then, and three or for males before that) turned from being obedient to a monster at the age of 1 and a half, he was well trained, and never showed any sign of being aggressive, then one day he flipped and went in on my dad (whilst they were playing tug), not just a quick snap, he repeatedly came in to attack, my dad had to hit him 4 or 5 times with a broom to stop him (the dog only stopped after my dad fearing serious injury struck the dog over the head, which broke the broom), my dad had to have medical attention. After this he spoke to the local constabulary whether they could work him and after a visit was told "no, too aggresive, try the forces", which he did and was also told no, unfortunately the dog had to be put to sleep.

(Please don’t read this and think my father is an animal abuser, he has kept animals all his life, this is the only time I have ever seen him raise a hand to any animal, but I do think he was justified in doing so).

Hi there,

Was just reading this thread.

I don't know how the situation is now, a month later, but we are talking here about a dog in his puberties who is very clearly looking where his boundaries are within his pack. He is clearly testing the authority of his human pack members. And so far he's on the winning end: Commands need to be repeated several times before he 'obeys', he is reluctant to go in the down, he mouthes and snaps, growls and he's 'hard-headed'. All symptoms of a dog who is establishing his rank ... above you.

He's still fairly young, and isn't confident enough yet to take over and THAT'S why he will lick after the snap! This is NOT bite-inhibition in the sense that he'll know how hard to bite. A dog is extremely good in calculating (if I can describe it in this way) where to bite. A snap means that the dog bites AT you, but not yet IN you. The dog knows EXACTLY what he is doing. A snap means in dog language 'back off'.

Once the dog grows into adulthood, there might very well come the time, that he will NOT accept being turned over onto his belly (sub-missive position), put in the down (sub-missive position), being groomed (where he needs to submit to the groomer), corrected (pushed physically with a choke chain into sub-mission) or being pushed in any other way into a sub-mission.

This is most probably what happened with the 1 1/2 year old GSD as well. This dog was in the right age of feeling physically and mentally strong enough to challenge the owner. Most of the dominance-aggression occers around this age! Unless, there has been physically something very wrong with this dog, there must have been many signs before the dog 'snapped' (I'd rather would refer to that, as the dog said 'enough is enough, you don't have the right to challenge me and my position). A normal healthy dog will NOT growl, snap or bite just out of the blue.

Then, the incident with the neighbors dogs: <quote but quick as a flash he jumped up, ears down, tail planted between his legs, eyes flashing and teeth bared like some thing from the film "Alien", he first bit the Bangkaeow which gave out an almighty yelp and made off for home, then promptly bit the Spaniels as they made off after their big brother, after giving chase for about 25m Chigo stopped, shock his fur and trotted back to my side ... unquote>

Ears down, tail tucked are signs of fear. Teeth bared can be fear or confidence, that depends only the front teeth are visible or also teh premolars and molars. Nevertheless, this dog learned that by showing pure aggression other dogs will back off. This is something you really don't want your dog to learn. Why not? Because, you might very well end up with a dog that start showing aggression more often even before anything happens. It's a matter of having success or not. This time the dog had success and with it gained confidence.

Shaking the fur after the chase, does not means something like "look what it did, i won". Dogs shake their furr when they are wet or when they are stressed!

I really hope that things have changed for the better since your last post.

Nienke

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Hi Nienke, with the 3 dogs he has contact with daily, everything is well, no aggression, just happy to play and get filthy in the mud/sand, the dogs he had to problem with have since moved to the city, as their owner has rented out his house long term, so no further contact, with everyone in our family he is well behaved, apart from with my son, who tends to wind the dog up until he bites the air towards him, regardless of me telling him not to tease the dog, or play power games with him, I am concerned about this a great deal, and always have to remind my son (and nag my wife, to remind him) that this breed of dog has a reputation for a reason, and if he carry’s on like this sooner or later the dog will go for him.

My wife and I groom him most days and check him for ticks with no bad behaviour from him (although we only do this when he is laying down and settled, we don't do this when he is in play mode), and his basic training is going well, he mostly does what I tell him to first time now without me having to reaffirm the command with my hand and lead.

However he does show aggression towards strangers (very typical of breed), no one outside our family can get near him (apart from our staff and one of the guys that delivers our water), so with this in mind I do not allow anyone to enter our home/garden until he is secured by check chain (so I can control him), when ever we take him outside the house he is secure, and people are told not to approach him, also our vet will not allow any Bangkaew in his offices without a muzzle.

This is certainly not the breed of dog you should consider as a pet (happy go lucky, being able to trust him with everybody) they demand great respect, I can see why so many Thai's are very cautious with them.

My wife and I have been in contact with the breeder we purchased him from regarding training and handling (us and our dog) via a Military school in Chiang Mai, will keep you informed regarding this, (but I would be much happier working with trainers that speak fluent English, but they know these dogs very well, as they work them).

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