Jump to content

Splits deepen over British minister Johnson's burqa comments


webfact

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, The manic said:

I cannot wear a balaclava or mask or crash helmet in many locations. Nor can I go bare headed on a motor bike

 In most of the locations where you would have to remove these face coverings for ID or security purposes, one example being for ID purposes when attending a driving test, theory and practical, Burka or niqab wearing women also have to remove their veil for the same reasons. There are locations where the would not be asked to do so, but that is the choice of the owners or management of those locations; take it up with them.

 

The police have the power to demand that anyone whose face is covered in a public place remove that covering, again for ID or security reasons.

 

Burka and niqab wearers have to remove their veil when passing through UK passport control.

 

They also have to remove it when entering a plea if the accused and/or giving evidence in a court of law.

 

The rest of your post is bile which ignores two important facts:

  1. the burka and niqab predate Islam,
  2. it is not only Muslim women in the region who wear them.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 243
  • Created
  • Last Reply
3 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 In most of the locations where you would have to remove these face coverings for ID or security purposes, one example being for ID purposes when attending a driving test, theory and practical, Burka or niqab wearing women also have to remove their veil for the same reasons. There are locations where the would not be asked to do so, but that is the choice of the owners or management of those locations; take it up with them.

 

The police have the power to demand that anyone whose face is covered in a public place remove that covering, again for ID or security reasons.

 

Burka and niqab wearers have to remove their veil when passing through UK passport control.

 

They also have to remove it when entering a plea if the accused and/or giving evidence in a court of law.

 

The rest of your post is bile which ignores two important facts:

  1. the burka and niqab predate Islam,
  2. it is not only Muslim women in the region who wear them.

 

 

" Always look on the bright side of life".. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

The burka and niqab are indefensible in countries that try to support equal rights for men and women.

 

As pointed out by an earlier poster, only women wear this pointless piece of cloth over their face - not their menfolk....

 

The earlier video provided on this thread where young, educated, Moslem women 'explained' why they chose to wear the burka, made no logical sense at all.  It just made it very clear that they were stupid and/or uninformed -and definitely ridiculous on this subject.

 

Quite apart from the various other problems that people have with the burka and nikab - it is an affront to equality.

 You what?

 

You are really saying that women expressing an opinion and making a choice are 'stupid and/or uninformed and definitely ridiculous on this subject?'

 

You make remarks like that yet want us to believe you care about women's rights and equality?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

The burka and niqab are indefensible in countries that try to support equal rights for men and women.

 

As pointed out by an earlier poster, only women wear this pointless piece of cloth over their face - not their menfolk....

 

The earlier video provided on this thread where young, educated, Moslem women 'explained' why they chose to wear the burka, made no logical sense at all.  It just made it very clear that they were stupid and/or uninformed -and definitely ridiculous on this subject.

 

Quite apart from the various other problems that people have with the burka and nikab - it is an affront to equality.

 

Just now, simple1 said:

What right do you have to insult other women. You're being arrogant. 

You misunderstand.  I didn't set out to insult them - just point out that their own statements left no other conclusion as to their illogical 'explanations' as to why they chose to wear the burka!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

You misunderstand.  I didn't set out to insult them - just point out that their own statements left no other conclusion as to their illogical 'explanations' as to why they chose to wear the burka!

To quote you...

 

It just made it very clear that they were stupid...

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Any British person, Python fan or no, would know that they emphatically denied the film was about Christ.

 

Any Python fan, British or no, would also know that.

 

Anyone who has seen the film, Python fan or no, British or no, would also know that.

 

A reminder that there have been many films about Mohammed without causing the events you describe, which must be a great disappointment to you.

 

 

 

 

The film is still funny and accurate because its target is less religion than fanaticism in all its forms, including politics , and the nonsense it générâtes .

Could be "life of Ahmed" in a sense 

breathe deeply, sit back and relax  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:
30 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Any British person, Python fan or no, would know that they emphatically denied the film was about Christ.

 

Any Python fan, British or no, would also know that.

 

Anyone who has seen the film, Python fan or no, British or no, would also know that.

 

A reminder that there have been many films about Mohammed without causing the events you describe, which must be a great disappointment to you.

 

 

 

 

Are you seriously saying that Life of Brian had nothing to do with the story of Jesus Christ?

 Yes I am saying that, for two reasons:

  1. I have seen the film,
  2. the Pythons themselves made it very clear that it was not about Christ; go back and watch the discussion I posted earlier. Also, from the article I linked to earlier:
    Quote

    The origin of Life of Brian was typically Python. After the success of the film Monty Python and the Holy Grail, the group were inundated by questions about their next project. On a promotional trip to Paris, Eric Idle and Terry Gilliam got legless, and Idle said the title for their next film should be “Jesus Christ – Lust for Glory”. This tickled the collective Python funny bone and they started looking into a potential comedy about Christ.

    “I was originally against doing a biblical film because I thought the costumes would be so boring,” says Terry Jones. But the group recognised the kernel of something interesting and started researching the subject. However, as Jones points out, they all realised that “Christ was a very good bloke, saying a lot of very good things that we all agreed with. Humour wasn’t in Christ at all.”

     

24 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

If so, why on earth did a few christian extremists kick up a fuss about it??

Ask them, and watch the discussion I posted earlier. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Of course, domestic abuse isn't confined to Islam

> muslims are to the best of my knowledge the only abusers who justify their abuse with their "religion" these days, mandated by koranic dogma. 

 

muslims in the uk are also unique in murdering their daughters and sisters for refusing to marry the arranged spouse, often a person they have never met, who cannot speak English and who lives in a Pakistani village.

 

Evidence for this is abundant, but anyone who doubts it can google "honour killings" "honour killings muslims UK" or something similar.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

The burka and niqab are indefensible in countries that try to support equal rights for men and women.

 

As pointed out by an earlier poster, only women wear this pointless piece of cloth over their face - not their menfolk....

 

The earlier video provided on this thread where young, educated, Moslem women 'explained' why they chose to wear the burka, made no logical sense at all.  It just made it very clear that they were stupid and/or uninformed -and definitely ridiculous on this subject.

 

Quite apart from the various other problems that people have with the burka and nikab - it is an affront to equality.

 

10 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 You what?

 

You are really saying that women expressing an opinion and making a choice are 'stupid and/or uninformed and definitely ridiculous on this subject?'

 

You make remarks like that yet want us to believe you care about women's rights and equality?

 

Their own 'explanations' made this clear.  I just pointed it out.

 

And as for your last sentence ? - yes, I'm female and most certainly very concerned about womens' rights and equality!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

> muslims are to the best of my knowledge the only abusers who justify their abuse with their "religion" these days, mandated by koranic dogma. 

 

muslims in the uk are also unique in murdering their daughters and sisters for refusing to marry the arranged spouse, often a person they have never met, who cannot speak English and who lives in a Pakistani village.

 

Evidence for this is abundant, but anyone who doubts it can google "honour killings" "honour killings muslims UK" or something similar.

 As I live in the UK and have to go to work now, I'll respond later.

 

I see that despite your pontificating about life in the UK and criticising of those who comment on it but don't live here, you still wont say where in the UK you live; if you live here at all, which I doubt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

Their own 'explanations' made this clear.  I just pointed it out.

 

And as for your last sentence ? - yes, I'm female and most certainly very concerned about womens' rights and equality!

 

Condemned out of your own mouth, or keyboard.

 

You care about women's rights and equality, but only when they share your opinions.

 

Any woman who disagrees with you is "stupid and/or uninformed -and definitely ridiculous on this subject."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

I see that despite your pontificating about life in the UK and criticising of those who comment on it but don't live here, you still wont say where in the UK you live; if you live here at all, which I doubt.

I'll try repeating this for what must be the 5th time. This is a topic about a politician in the UK saying something about a form of muslim dress. I am not criticising people who don't or haven't lived live in the UK. I am simply pointing out the obvious, that first hand knowledge of muslim immigration into the UK, particularly in those areas most adversely affected by muslim immigration, will actually be a major help to informed comment. I used to have a girlfriend in Woking by the way. A nice spot. Have a good day at work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

Condemned out of your own mouth, or keyboard.

 

You care about women's rights and equality, but only when they share your opinions.

 

Any woman who disagrees with you is "stupid and/or uninformed -and definitely ridiculous on this subject."

They were the ones that said they wore the burka because it made it more obvious they were Moslem/people considered them for 'who they are, rather than what they look like' - or words to this effect....

 

I've no idea as to why you would try to twist my 'argument' -  as per your above post.

 

Although, to be fair, perhaps you agree with them that wearing a headscarf doesn't make it obvious enough that they are Moslem?  And that wearing a burka 'others look at them for who they are, rather than what they wear'? ? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

I'll try repeating this for what must be the 5th time. This is a topic about a politician in the UK saying something about a form of muslim dress. I am not criticising people who don't or haven't lived live in the UK. I am simply pointing out the obvious, that first hand knowledge of muslim immigration into the UK, particularly in those areas most adversely affected by muslim immigration, will actually be a major help to informed comment. I used to have a girlfriend in Woking by the way. A nice spot. Have a good day at work.

“This is a topic about a politician in the UK saying something about a form of muslim dress.”

 

This and one other thread.

 

In response you have skipped discussing the Politician’s comments and their impact, choosing instead to vomit a stream of your Islamophobic hate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/13/2018 at 5:17 PM, Krataiboy said:

The way things are shaping up, Charlie could end up defending only one faith. And it won't be Christianity, Buddhism or Scientology.

anyone defending "faith" is  plain nuts, faith= belief without evidence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

In response you have skipped discussing the Politician’s comments and their impact, choosing instead to vomit a stream of your Islamophobic hate.

The reality is that I'm a lifelong liberal with experience of Wahabbism in the muslim world and in the UK. In my opinion as a lifelong liberal, Wahabbism is far worse than Fascism ever dreamed of being.

 

I am not confusing Wahabbism with other forms of islam, but many of my fellow liberals on this thread are doing just that in my opinion.

 

The dress in question is Wahabbi. You call me an islamophobe, so I'm sure it's ok for me to call you an islamofascist sympathiser.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

> muslims are to the best of my knowledge the only abusers who justify their abuse with their "religion" these days, mandated by koranic dogma. 

 

muslims in the uk are also unique in murdering their daughters and sisters for refusing to marry the arranged spouse, often a person they have never met, who cannot speak English and who lives in a Pakistani village.

 

Evidence for this is abundant, but anyone who doubts it can google "honour killings" "honour killings muslims UK" or something similar.

no no, Sihks  like to do it as  well

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Anyway, this is another deflection.

 

The point is that quite apart from other problems re. the burka/nikab - it's an affront to equality, something women in Western countries have fought hard to achieve for many decades.

How does it effect your equality as a Western woman? Doesn't, does it, in reality you're just projecting your values on other persons

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

Their own 'explanations' made this clear.  I just pointed it out.

 

And as for your last sentence ? - yes, I'm female and most certainly very concerned about womens' rights and equality!

I apologise for quoting myself, but I was also interested in another comment made by one of them - namely, their parents moved here and felt the need to integrate, so dressed to integrate.

 

The main reason I mention this is because there was a Pakistani, corner shop where I used to live, that I frequented.  They were very nice people and the women dressed 'normally', other than a headscarf.  We chatted about 'this and that' every time I went there.  Consequently, I was horrified when (the next day) they told me that some local yobs had caused havoc in their store the previous evening and physically assaulted them - purely because they were 'paki bashers' ☹️.

 

In fact, everyone I knew nearby was horrified by what had happened and - as it turned out - we all gave them our 'phone numbers, telling them to call us if they ever had any trouble again, as we would be there like a shot!

 

Sadly, if a local shop was staffed by extremist Moslems (i.e. women wearing the burka and their husbands), I doubt we would have ever have started chatting or formed any sort of relationship with them that would result in us feeling 'protective' towards them ☹️.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, simple1 said:

How does it effect your equality as a Western woman? Doesn't, does it, in reality you're just projecting your values on other persons

Of course it doesn't affect 'my equality'.

 

Even so, I'm concerned about female equality in the uk being upheld, and the burka/nikab are physical demonstrations of female inequality.  As has been mentioned previously, for some obscure reason they are only worn by Moslem women....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If we could be 100% sure that only the following are wearing burkas (forget the nikab - which is even more stupid):-

 

1)  adult women that have only attended non-Moslem schools (dressed in school uniform and participating in all classes) throughout their education

2) they were entirely free to make such a (pointless) personal choice

 

then I'd be be far less likely to argue against this manifestation of misogyny.

 

Admittedly, I'd still think they were incapable of independent, intelligent, logical thought.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 In most of the locations where you would have to remove these face coverings for ID or security purposes, one example being for ID purposes when attending a driving test, theory and practical, Burka or niqab wearing women also have to remove their veil for the same reasons. There are locations where the would not be asked to do so, but that is the choice of the owners or management of those locations; take it up with them.

 

The police have the power to demand that anyone whose face is covered in a public place remove that covering, again for ID or security reasons.

 

Burka and niqab wearers have to remove their veil when passing through UK passport control.

 

They also have to remove it when entering a plea if the accused and/or giving evidence in a court of law.

 

The rest of your post is bile which ignores two important facts:

  1. the burka and niqab predate Islam,
  2. it is not only Muslim women in the region who wear them.

 

It is compulsory in Saudi, Afghanistan Iran.  Not voluntary.  Its predicated on the assumption that men cannot control their lust and that women are inherently dirty temptresses owned by men.  Its part of a primitive pattern of paternalistic oppression.  If you like Burqas so much wear one your self. I repeat:The Afghan Burqas damage eyes and other forms lead to vitamin D deficiency. No bile just facts and excellent insights based on 30 years travelling in the MENA region and near Asia. You have no idea how women are broken and systematically abused in the name of political system disguised as a religion. You are part of the problem. It's shamefully.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

They were the ones that said they wore the burka because it made it more obvious they were Moslem/people considered them for 'who they are, rather than what they look like' - or words to this effect....

 

I've no idea as to why you would try to twist my 'argument' -  as per your above post.

 

Although, to be fair, perhaps you agree with them that wearing a headscarf doesn't make it obvious enough that they are Moslem?  And that wearing a burka 'others look at them for who they are, rather than what they wear'? ? 

 Their reasons for their choice are irrelevent; it is a choice they made of their own free will.

 

A choice you labled "stupid and/or uninformed -and definitely ridiculous on this subject" and would deny them in the name of women's rights and equality!

 

A straight question, to which I hope you will give a straight answer: do you belive in a woman's right to choose, even if you disagree with that choice?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, The manic said:

It is compulsory in Saudi, Afghanistan Iran.  Not voluntary.  Its predicated on the assumption that men cannot control their lust and that women are inherently dirty temptresses owned by men.  Its part of a primitive pattern of paternalistic oppression.  If you like Burqas so much wear one your self. I repeat:The Afghan Burqas damage eyes and other forms lead to vitamin D deficiency. No bile just facts and excellent insights based on 30 years travelling in the MENA region and near Asia. You have no idea how women are broken and systematically abused in the name of political system disguised as a religion. You are part of the problem. It's shamefully.

 We asre talking about the UK, not those countries. Yes not all women enjoy the same rights as they do here in the UK, not just in those countries you mention, but others as well; muslim and non Muslim.

 

BTW, neither the burka nor the niqab are compulsory anywhere.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, The manic said:

The police have the power to demand that anyone whose face is covered in a public place remove that covering, again for ID or security reasons.

Not only the police. I'd like to know the face of the person standing  next to me for security reasons. 

 

If the veil is worn in their own private spaces then that's ok. 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, The manic said:

The police have the power to demand that anyone whose face is covered in a public place remove that covering, again for ID or security reasons.

Not only the police. I'd like to know the face of the person standing  next to me for security reasons. 

 

If the veil is worn in their own private spaces then that's ok. 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Of course it doesn't affect 'my equality'.

 

Even so, I'm concerned about female equality in the uk being upheld, and the burka/nikab are physical demonstrations of female inequality.  As has been mentioned previously, for some obscure reason they are only worn by Moslem women....

Let's stop this nonsense. Many times in topics concerning Muslims you have indulged in generalised vilification, 'liked' others who post the same type of content and so on. You continue with your putdowns in this topic even when in your opinion the women are being abused - think...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, My Thai Life said:

Do you mind telling us where you got that wisdom from? Could you send some evidence for this assertion.

Have you lived in muslim countries? Which ones?

I have lived and travelled in countless Muslim countries. In Saudi full covering is the law as it in most parts of Afghanitan, most of Libya, Iran etc etc. In Saudi the black cover all is donned by all women ,even Christians, at the border or Airport.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.





×
×
  • Create New...