Splits deepen over British minister Johnson's burqa comments

[The manic]

4 hours ago, simple1 said:

Let's stop this nonsense. Many times in topics concerning Muslims you have indulged in generalised vilification, 'liked' others who post the same type of content and so on. You continue with your putdowns in this topic even when in your opinion the women are being abused - think...

Such opinions are common to Expats who worked in the MENA region. We have an awareness based on actual experience. By what right do you police people's opinions?

[The manic]

7 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

The reality is that I'm a lifelong liberal with experience of Wahabbism in the muslim world and in the UK. In my opinion as a lifelong liberal, Wahabbism is far worse than Fascism ever dreamed of being.

 

I am not confusing Wahabbism with other forms of islam, but many of my fellow liberals on this thread are doing just that in my opinion.

 

The dress in question is Wahabbi. You call me an islamophobe, so I'm sure it's ok for me to call you an islamofascist sympathiser.

 

 

Well said and very true.

[The manic]

20 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Then you not only have a poor memory, but haven't read the quotes in my post, let alone the actual article!

 

Another reminder:-

 

 

There have been many; from dramatisations to documentaries. This list is 6 years old, so is not complete:  List of Western Films about the Prophet Muhammad
 

Neither are most, the vast majority in fact, British Muslims; Burka wearing women or not.

 

It has been shown to you many times in the other topic that many. I'm not saying all, British Muslim women who wear a niqab or burka do so of their own free will; exercising a choice you would deny them for no reason other than your hate.

 

 Where are these so called ghettoes, these so called Muslim controlled no go areas where even the police fear to tread?

People are going to Trump's 'no-go areas' to make a point

 

As for the self appointed Sharia police; it is true that some young Muslim men did try such a thing a few years ago. They were roundly condemned by the local Muslim community, including mosques, and dealt with by the police and courts; most of them serving custodial sentences.

 

From the Daily Mail, which not even you can accuse of being PC, leftie and immigrant loving, of 6th December 2013: 'Muslim Patrol' jailed for harassing couple holding hands and men drinking in a bid to enforce Sharia law in East London
 

 

 

 

 

 

Also on you tube

[stud858]

What am I called if I just want to feel safe with everyone showing their face.

[nong38]

Whatever happened to free speech...………………...the PC brigade.

[simple1]

5 hours ago, The manic said:

Such opinions are common to Expats who worked in the MENA region. We have an awareness based on actual experience. By what right do you police people's opinions?

Who are you to try and police my opinions - hypocrisy comes to mind.

 

The topic is with regard to the UK, not MENA and BJ who in fact did not claim to ban the burka / niqab, but commented on his reaction to full face veils, no doubt for self aggrandising politically purposes. 

[The manic]

3 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Who are you to try and police my opinions - hypocrisy comes to mind.

 

The topic is with regard to the UK, not MENA and BJ who in fact did not claim to ban the burka / niqab, but commented on his reaction to full face veils, no doubt for self aggrandising politically purposes. 

Sorry I dont mean to bicker or lead the thread astray but the the clothing originate in the MENA region as does the culture and religion. So people who have experienced living in such places have a deeper understanding of the issues. I disagree with Johnson and think the whole face and body shaming of women, girls and children should be illegal. I have felt this since 1974. The Burqa is a cruel physical punishment and mental abuse which dehumanize women. You wear one if You like or put your kids in them if you feel so strongly about it. The women who say they choose have been cajoled, shamed and bullied into thinking the abnormal.is normal. Brainwashed, Stockholm syndrome style. The fuss about Johnson is to distract the heat from.the Labour party which now as it increasly relies on.the Muslim vote has to espouse dog whistle judaphobia disguised as an anti Zionist stance. The johnson affair is just an.attempt to distract people  from the morrally bankrupt Corbyn and his Trotskyist cronies.  I and my family are labour red since the 1920s but we have seen our party hijacked before. No decent person will vote for Cornyn so they seek to sully Johnson who espouses a perfectly decent view. He thinks the Niqab is dreadful but should not be banned. Why the fuss?

[simple1]

1 hour ago, The manic said:

He thinks the Niqab is dreadful but should not be banned. Why the fuss?

As previously stated, personally I do not have an issue for banning full face veils with the same rules for full face helmets. As to the point you raised, ask the members who have leveraged the topic for virulent and assumptive generalised anti Muslim rhetoric.

 

[bristolboy]

8 hours ago, stud858 said:

What am I called if I just want to feel safe with everyone showing their face.

Insecure? Fearful?

[superal]

17 hours ago, The manic said:

The Burqa is cultural not religious but based on Bedouin ideas of dress codes.

Indeed the Bedouin robes are mostly dark colours when worn in the desert and are made to be loose to allow an air flow by convection around the body , so fit for purpose in the hot deserts . However I do not think there are any deserts in Birmingham or London . 

[stud858]

3 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Insecure? Fearful?

Yes, bank staff and I need some therapy. I shall be courageous one day. 

[bristolboy]

6 minutes ago, stud858 said:

Yes, bank staff and I need some therapy. I shall be courageous one day. 

Do UK banks ban customers wearing burqas? I haven't been able to find any evidence to support that. I'm not saying they don't, but since you made the claim that they do, it's incumbent upon you to provide the evidence. As it stands now, it seems to be just you who needs therapy.

[stud858]

3 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Do UK banks ban customers wearing burqas? I haven't been able to find any evidence to support that. I'm not saying they don't, but since you made the claim that they do, it's incumbent upon you to provide the evidence. As it stands now, it seems to be just you who needs therapy.

I can only speak for Australia. You need to show your face for the bank cameras. As long as you show your face you can wear whatever you like. I've never been to UK. Would love to go  one day. All Australians need to man up then. 

[bristolboy]

4 minutes ago, stud858 said:

I can only speak for Australia. You need to show your face for the bank cameras. As long as you show your face you can wear whatever you like. I've never been to UK. Would love to go  one day. All Australians need to man up then. 

So if a woman is wearing a burqa and lifts the face covering whilst facing the camera, this will suffice?

[stud858]

8 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

So if a woman is wearing a burqa and lifts the face covering whilst facing the camera, this will suffice

or shows her face upon request.  Yes,  they have become identifiable.

 

[spidermike007]

On 8/15/2018 at 12:20 AM, 7by7 said:

 

As have those who want to dictate to other people what they can and cannot wear in public!

 

Before anyone comments; it wouldn't bother me if naturists were allowed to walk around naked whenever and wherever they chose.

 

It is now legal for women to walk around naked in NYC. During the summer you can find many women topless in the streets. Fun fun.

[spidermike007]

Unless and until assimilation begins, and the Arab and Middle Eastern people who are migrating to Western nations begin to make an attempt to assimilate, we will continue to have tribal and feudal pockets within our society. This benefits nobody, much less society at large. Remove the tents! Get rid of the mailboxes! You are no longer in Yemen or Saudi. A tent is completely inappropriate for anything other than camping. I think this is a healthy debate, and I applaud Johnson for having the courage to speak out. As Clint Eastwood said, PC is for pussies. 

 

Lastly, Wahhabism is one of the most extreme, and least tolerant belief systems in the world, and many followers of this ridiculous faith are supporters of terrorism, especially the Saudi Royals. It must be stamped out. Eliminated from the face of the earth. It is a scourge. We are literally at war with the Wahhabis. If the Saudis did not have oil and lots of money, they would be the the number one enemy of the world, and would be absolute pariahs. Instead we put up with extremist numskulls like Prince Salman, who lock women up for voicing their concerns about women's rights, while pretending to be reformers. What? Rights for women? We can't have that! They are not people. 

[dick dasterdly]

 

20 hours ago, simple1 said:

Let's stop this nonsense. Many times in topics concerning Muslims you have indulged in generalised vilification, 'liked' others who post the same type of content and so on. You continue with your putdowns in this topic even when in your opinion the women are being abused - think...

I sincerely hope you can validate the claim that "Many times in topics concerning Muslims you have indulged in generalised vilification,"...

 

Except, of course, I know that to be a figment of your imagination - and that the closest you can come is to my 'calling out' the three Moslem women who gave their entirely ridiculous reasons for choosing to wear the burka....

 

Let's be very clear on this point, my comments re. their reasons for choosing to wear the burka were not 'general vilification against all Moslems' - they were specifically addressed to their ridiculous comments.

 

Hopefully (?) you will withdraw your entirely unjustifiable slur.

 

Somehow I know you won't - in the same way I know that you will be unable to provide any evidence of your ludicrous and reprehensible allegation....

 

 

[stud858]

3 hours ago, bristolboy said:

I'm thinking of wearing a veil. Not because i don't want people to look at me but because I'm sick of looking out into a troublesome world.  

 

Ahh, ok then,  maybe I don't like people looking at me,  stop looking at me.  Look at me.  Stop looking at me.  they are lines from a war movie.  Forget the name. Was on TV here last week.  Good movie.  Anybody remember the name?

 

 

 

[bristolboy]

5 hours ago, stud858 said:

I'm thinking of wearing a veil. Not because i don't want people to look at me but because I'm sick of looking out into a troublesome world.  

 

Ahh, ok then,  maybe I don't like people looking at me,  stop looking at me.  Look at me.  Stop looking at me.  they are lines from a war movie.  Forget the name. Was on TV here last week.  Good movie.  Anybody remember the name?

 

 

 

I think when you're in a state like this, you'd be doing yourself a favor to wear a veil.

[dick dasterdly]

On 8/16/2018 at 5:28 PM, simple1 said:

Let's stop this nonsense. Many times in topics concerning Muslims you have indulged in generalised vilification, 'liked' others who post the same type of content and so on. You continue with your putdowns in this topic even when in your opinion the women are being abused - think...

 

23 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

I sincerely hope you can validate the claim that "Many times in topics concerning Muslims you have indulged in generalised vilification,"...

 

Except, of course, I know that to be a figment of your imagination - and that the closest you can come is to my 'calling out' the three Moslem women who gave their entirely ridiculous reasons for choosing to wear the burka....

 

Let's be very clear on this point, my comments re. their reasons for choosing to wear the burka were not 'general vilification against all Moslems' - they were specifically addressed to their ridiculous comments.

 

Hopefully (?) you will withdraw your entirely unjustifiable slur.

 

Somehow I know you won't - in the same way I know that you will be unable to provide any evidence of your ludicrous and reprehensible allegation....

 

 

I'm still waiting for evidence to support your allegation that " "Many times in topics concerning Muslims you have indulged in generalised vilification".

 

Why on earth does the odd poster feel the need to come out with these types of outright lies against those with a different POV on a particular subject?

 

Rhetorical question obviously ?....

[jayboy]

On 8/17/2018 at 3:34 AM, simple1 said:

Who are you to try and police my opinions - hypocrisy comes to mind.

 

The topic is with regard to the UK, not MENA and BJ who in fact did not claim to ban the burka / niqab, but commented on his reaction to full face veils, no doubt for self aggrandising politically purposes. 

The problem is that Boris Johnson's view of the burqa reflects the views of the vast majority of British people.He is not saying it should be banned (for the reality is he's rather liberal) but thinks it is ridiculous and inappropriate.Many others would say it's offensive.The jokes about letterboxes have been made countless times in the past.However these views are not acceptable to those who know what's best for us - the Guardian,The Independent and their semi crazed commentariat, the Corbyn cult, the extreme Left and now the floppy wing of the Conservative Party.When pressed they will say that Boris Johnson was "dog whistling" i.e sending out racist messages under cover.

 

I don't think the reaction of the "good people" makes much sense - but that's another topic.

[simple1]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

I'm still waiting for evidence to support your allegation that " "Many times in topics concerning Muslims you have indulged in generalised vilification".

 

Why on earth does the odd poster feel the need to come out with these types of outright lies against those with a different POV on a particular subject?

 

Rhetorical question obviously ?....

Why do you deny the facts of your posting history

 

"And now of course, we have the more recent 'refugees' - that apparently have no interest in integrating with the local community - in any way at all ."

[dick dasterdly]

21 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

I'm still waiting for evidence to support your allegation that " "Many times in topics concerning Muslims you have indulged in generalised vilification".

 

Why on earth does the odd poster feel the need to come out with these types of outright lies against those with a different POV on a particular subject?

 

Rhetorical question obviously ?....

 

20 hours ago, simple1 said:

Why do you deny the facts of your posting history

 

"And now of course, we have the more recent 'refugees' - that apparently have no interest in integrating with the local community - in any way at all ."

My comment (that you have quoted) is in no way evidence of my "generalised vilification" of Moslems - and, I have no doubt at all that it has been taken out of context.

 

I'm pretty damned sure about this as, whilst I think the burka and niqab should be banned, I have nothing whatsoever against ordinary Moslems generally.

 

 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'm pretty damned sure about this as, whilst I think the burka and niqab should be banned, I have nothing whatsoever against ordinary Moslems generally.

 

I could never trust anyone that won't eat bacon.

(but you women can all wear what you like)

[Chomper Higgot]

59 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

My comment (that you have quoted) is in no way evidence of my "generalised vilification" of Moslems - and, I have no doubt at all that it has been taken out of context.

 

I'm pretty damned sure about this as, whilst I think the burka and niqab should be banned, I have nothing whatsoever against ordinary Moslems generally.

 

 

Let’s put you to the test:

 

Thoughout your posts you use the word ‘Moslem’ when referring to people who follow Islam.

 

The people who follow Islam refer to themselves as ‘Muslim(s)’, and for good reason, as explained bhere:

 

https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/524

 

You may, Until now, not have beeen aware that the term ‘Moslem’ is regarded as offensive, but these links will offer you information to help you address people without ‘inadvertently’ causing offence:

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Moslem

 

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=moslem

 

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-Muslim-and-Moslim

[sootybrown]

It would be interesting to see how many MP's across party's would support a referendum on the banning of Islamic female Burkas, it seems that it is now not possible to say anything if it may upset somebody else, especially if they are from a foreign country and especially a different religion, Labour party Judaism, Tory party Islam, even the Brexit referendum seems to be about not upsetting the other EU members and all that was wanted is just to leave and start again. Britain is big enough and strong enough to stand alone and get on with things.

[simple1]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

My comment (that you have quoted) is in no way evidence of my "generalised vilification" of Moslems - and, I have no doubt at all that it has been taken out of context.<snip>

 

 

Last response on this matter. 

 

Even when I provide an example of your behaviour you deflect / deny.

[dick dasterdly]

53 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Let’s put you to the test:

 

Thoughout your posts you use the word ‘Moslem’ when referring to people who follow Islam.

 

The people who follow Islam refer to themselves as ‘Muslim(s)’, and for good reason, as explained bhere:

 

https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/524

 

You may, Until now, not have beeen aware that the term ‘Moslem’ is regarded as offensive, but these links will offer you information to help you address people without ‘inadvertently’ causing offence:

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Moslem

 

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=moslem

 

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-Muslim-and-Moslim

A genuine mistake on my part as I thought that 'Moslems' was a more 'correct' spelling than 'Muslims'.

 

Thank you for pointing this out.  In future I will spell the religious name correctly.

[dick dasterdly]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

My comment (that you have quoted) is in no way evidence of my "generalised vilification" of Moslems - and, I have no doubt at all that it has been taken out of context.

 

I'm pretty damned sure about this as, whilst I think the burka and niqab should be banned, I have nothing whatsoever against ordinary Moslems generally.

 

 

 

16 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Last response on this matter. 

 

Even when I provide an example of your behaviour you deflect / deny.

I'm not at all suprised that you're now 'backing out' - as you have presumably realised by now that your assumption (based on the fact that I support banning the burka/niqab) was entirely wrong.

 

Let's be entirely clear on this point - you have provided zero evidence supporting your allegation against me -  "Many times in topics concerning Muslims you have indulged in generalised vilification".

 

Sadly, it comes as no suprise that you are unable to admit or apologise for making an entirely false, personal accusation against a poster (myself in this case) who holds a different opinion on this one, particular subject.