Concerned About Poor Standard of Intl Teachers

[bowerboy]

We live in Ban Chang, close to Rayong where our 2 children go to International School (mid range school I think but not so sure any more). It is not REPS and it’s not St Andrews.

 

Over the last year our village has become popular with teachers (foreign teachers, UK particularly) and when I see the behavior of the teachers and their kids I am truly appalled. Some of the kids seem out of control, the parents often drive worse than most Thai’s (drive fast in the small sois of the village) and many of them take 1 or 2 kids on the motorbike all without helmets. Some encroach into the street with plants and bikes and trampolines etc. Overall it has made me very concerned about the quality of the teachers. If they can’t keep their own house in order then what about their work at the school.

 

 I know the salaries and they are low and the town is a bit rubbish in general. I wonder if it is kind of a school of last resort for those wanting a holiday rather than wanting to  educate kids.

 

Should I be concerned?

[Kwasaki]

First there not UK teachers there probably teaching to be able to stay in Thailand.

The rest of what you observe is normal everyday life in many areas if not all.

Maybe you should move somewhere that would suit you.

[Briggsy]

As ever in Thailand, there is no oversight. The best way to maintain any standards is any sort of organisation is to have external, independent, continuous oversight with strong regulatory powers.

 

Private international schools in Thailand self-regulate. This means the teaching performance and discipline situation is opaque and one of the very strong incentives to maintain standards is not present.

 

This means there is no external oversight other than the parents who lack auditing powers. Parents only have one really strong lever with the school. That is to take their children and money elsewhere.

[thesetat2013]

you will be hard pressed to find quality teachers regardless of the school here in thailand. best to homeschool if you really want your kids to grow up educated and with a good set of moral values and respinsibility. 

[gwynt]

13 minutes ago, thesetat2013 said:

you will be hard pressed to find quality teachers regardless of the school here in thailand. best to homeschool if you really want your kids to grow up educated and with a good set of moral values and respinsibility. 

Agreed, we tried international school but was very disappointed so now I home school our son with  a Thai teacher coming in twice a week to teach Thai language.

[Esso49]

18 minutes ago, thesetat2013 said:

you will be hard pressed to find quality teachers regardless of the school here in thailand. best to homeschool if you really want your kids to grow up educated and with a good set of moral values and respinsibility. 

Agreed

[SoNowWhat]

They encroach the street with plants and trampolines? 'Clutches pearls'...oh the horror...

[jimcarr65]

Unfortuantely I think you will only be seeing more of this as the 'good' teachers have mostly all left in the last 3 or so years. I remember the days when I had to actually compete for a job and do a demo in front of the Thai teachers. They made it so difficult with us who have all the proper credentials, BA, MBA and TEFL that most of us decided to move back to our home countries. Now the schools are filled with expats who are bored and just want a job for something to do, or the jobs were filled by less desirable because the schools were desperate. It's really too bad but the government and education department, along with the stagnant salaries left us no choic. 

[milwaukeeboy]

As an educational consultant, I can confirm that the state of education, both public and private, around the world is mostly deplorable. And it has only been getting worse over the past few decades.

[Big Guns]

I don't think there is a direct correlation between a teacher putting a plant or a trampoline in the street and their ability to teach. They may well be excellent teachers but unfortunately they have a poor understanding of the concept of community or being a good neighbour. I would say don't worry and if all else fails work out your stress on the trampoline ?

[TravelerEastWest]

3 hours ago, thesetat2013 said:

you will be hard pressed to find quality teachers regardless of the school here in thailand. best to homeschool if you really want your kids to grow up educated and with a good set of moral values and respinsibility. 

Strongly disagree - you have to pay a good Western salary with medical care and home visits etc then you will find good teachers the top half dozen or so International schools in Thailand are all fine.

 

But you need to pay for them.

[Estrada]

I once applied for a job teaching English at EEC. They turned me down and gave the job to a Spanish Chef attending Dusit College whose English was about as bad as Manuel in Faulty Towers!

[Darkside Gray]

I am more than happy with the standard of teaching in my daughters school in Banglamung excellent facilities and a good level of teaching staff.

However at a other school my son went to it was terrible took him out and he was so far behind had to send him to Australia where he was put back 2 years to catch up.

 

 

[gwynt]

2 hours ago, milwaukeeboy said:

As an educational consultant, I can confirm that the state of education, both public and private, around the world is mostly deplorable. And it has only been getting worse over the past few decades.

Surprised you did not except Finland.  https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/best-education-world-finland-what-uk-schools-can-learn-a7319056.html

[khunPer]

Apart from British teacher's motorbike skills, and upbringing of their own children, how are their education skills..?

[Tongjaw]

My kids go to a bilingual school and the teachers are good. What I have seen however is a couple of foreign parents dropping off their kids on motorbikes, parent and child not wearing helmets. Teaching begins at home, so if the parents aren’t doing the correct things what chance do the teachers have with them. 

[oldlakey]

38 minutes ago, khunPer said:

Apart from British teacher's motorbike skills, and upbringing of their own children, how are their education skills..?

Why do you think they are in Thailand exactly

[smotherb]

On 8/14/2018 at 1:40 PM, Kwasaki said:

First there not UK teachers there probably teaching to be able to stay in Thailand.

The rest of what you observe is normal everyday life in many areas if not all.

Maybe you should move somewhere that would suit you.

How is it you know there are, " . . . not UK teachers there . . . "? 

 

I realize you may be talking about teachers qualified to teach in the UK. However, if they are hired as teachers and they come from the UK, or even have a UK passport; they are UK teachers and I believe that is what the OP was saying.

 

I tend to agree with you that the OP's complaints are rather common here, even with farangs.

 

Consequently, I am afraid moving somewhere else in Thailand would not necessarily alleviate the issues of concern.

[TKDfella]

4 hours ago, jimcarr65 said:

Unfortuantely I think you will only be seeing more of this as the 'good' teachers have mostly all left in the last 3 or so years. I remember the days when I had to actually compete for a job and do a demo in front of the Thai teachers. They made it so difficult with us who have all the proper credentials, BA, MBA and TEFL that most of us decided to move back to our home countries. Now the schools are filled with expats who are bored and just want a job for something to do, or the jobs were filled by less desirable because the schools were desperate. It's really too bad but the government and education department, along with the stagnant salaries left us no choic. 

Certainly, at least part of, what you say is correct. I have been approached on several occasions to teach English and I have declined every time, I am simply not qualified to teach English Language. I did once help with English conversation but I 'knocked that on the head' when students and teachers began to take advantage. Two TEFL (I think) teachers from Cameroon took my place and though I had nothing against them personally their English pronunciation left a lot to be desired.

[atyclb]

3 hours ago, TravelerEastWest said:

Strongly disagree - you have to pay a good Western salary with medical care and home visits etc then you will find good teachers the top half dozen or so International schools in Thailand are all fine.

 

But you need to pay for them.

 

 

and what is the monthly wage at these top schools?

[atyclb]

On 8/14/2018 at 1:32 PM, bowerboy said:

 I know the salaries and they are low and the town is a bit rubbish in general. I wonder if it is kind of a school of last resort for those wanting a holiday rather than wanting to  educate kids.

 

Should I be concerned?

 

 

when did you realize thailand is not an IQ magnet?

[brewsterbudgen]

 
 
and what is the monthly wage at these top schools?

100,000+

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[MrJohnson]

11 minutes ago, atyclb said:

 

 

and what is the monthly wage at these top schools?

Good  international schools, especially those in Bangkok, pay a salary equivalent to what these qualified teachers would receive in their own countries. In addition, they will receive re-location expenses, health insurance and some form of housing allowance. Consequently, there are some very good teachers at many of the top schools. Most are recruited through international school job fairs. At the end of the day, like most things in life, you get what you pay for. 

[atyclb]

17 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

22 minutes ago, atyclb said:

 
 
and what is the monthly wage at these top schools?

100,000+

 

 

100K thai baht (3k usd) . or 100K eu or usd ??  

 

 

"average teacher salary in America (non-starting) is $58,950."      https://www.niche.com/blog/teacher-salaries-in-america/

[TravelerEastWest]

41 minutes ago, atyclb said:

 

 

100K thai baht (3k usd) . or 100K eu or usd ??  

 

 

"average teacher salary in America (non-starting) is $58,950."      https://www.niche.com/blog/teacher-salaries-in-america/

I think you are correct that if you compare salaries straight across American salaries are higher.

 

But as you know salaries vary quite a bit in America - because of the cost of living.

 

So if we take that into account Thai top International schools are probably paying a similar amount to American schools.

 

But doing a bit of online research the top schools pay 150,000+ baht per month plus perks plus a lower cost of living so actually the best teachers may be getting more money in Thailand plus of course the travel experience

 

https://tastythailand.com/whats-the-salary-at-a-bangkok-thailand-international-school/

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, smotherb said:

How is it you know there are, " . . . not UK teachers there . . . "? 

 

I realize you may be talking about teachers qualified to teach in the UK. However, if they are hired as teachers and they come from the UK, or even have a UK passport; they are UK teachers and I believe that is what the OP was saying.

 

Your correct I am only assuming from a common sense view mainly because having had friends teaching all over Thailand they would say the only place you may find a qualified UK teacher would be in a university in Bkk,  unless his/she is some kind of weirdo or likes being out of the frame.

[PeterA]

My wife's 16 year old son, has passed grade after grade, and had English classes for many years. I sat down with him soon after marrying his mother, and quickly saw he could not make it through his ABC's. In comparison, if there can be one, I have a young Thai friend back in the US. She is 10. She reads at a high school level, with comprehension to boot.

Thai schools will pass a kid to the next class, proficient in the studies or not. That is the root of the problem. Most parents, at least in the country, might have not made it past the first 5 years of school, so are none-the-wiser. The system, which employs the teachers, is broke.

[toooa]

Not all International Schools are created equal. Some just use the name "International" to make themselves look better than they are. 

Now that the "English Program" offering (dubious as it may be) has saturated the market, they're moving on to having "International Programs". 

Homeschooling sounds like the best option. And with all the money you save, you can give them real learning experiences like travel.

I'm sure there are exceptions, but what's known as "education" here is highly questionable.

[bfc1980]

On 8/14/2018 at 1:42 PM, Briggsy said:

As ever in Thailand, there is no oversight. The best way to maintain any standards is any sort of organisation is to have external, independent, continuous oversight with strong regulatory powers.

 

Private international schools in Thailand self-regulate. This means the teaching performance and discipline situation is opaque and one of the very strong incentives to maintain standards is not present.

 

This means there is no external oversight other than the parents who lack auditing powers. Parents only have one really strong lever with the school. That is to take their children and money elsewhere.

I'm sorry but that is not true. Proper international schools are rigorously audited by external inspectors from organisations such as EDT, Cfbt, ISQM, ONESCA etc. Having just been through and EDT inspection where we received an outstanding judgement, I can say that no stone is left unturned in their inspection process. In fact, it is the same or more rigorous than an Ofsted inspection from the UK. The inspectors themselves are Ofsted inspectors highly experienced and very well respected in their fields. 

 

Probably the "international school" you're referring to is not a proper one and as such you shouldn't tarnish all international schools with the same brush. So long as your own children don't go to that school, stop stressing and enjoy life. 

 

A "proper" International school is one which has a high percentage of expat children, invests in their teachers through CPD and pays their teachers very well to attract the very best (starting salary of at least 100k baht per month increasing for each year of experience, housing allowance on top of the monthly salary, additional pay for extra responsibilities, international medical insurance that covers pre existing conditions and all illnesses, pregnancy and diseases for teacher and all dependents, flight allowance each year for teacher and all dependents, 1 or 2 month bonus each year, relocation allowance at the beginning and end of contract and free tuition fees for their children. 

 

Therefore, for a teacher with around 10 years of experience a wife and 2 kids, the benefits package in total is easily worth well in excess of 200k baht per month. 

[Baerboxer]

My daughter started this year at a very expensive school which supposedly only employs highly qualified experienced foreign teachers. Her British Home Room teacher has been having inappropriate Line and phone chats with my wife and trying very hard to persuade her to have sex with him! Completely unconcerned about the disaster for her family or his pupil!

 

And he's the Home Room teacher for a class containing 16 teenage girls! Low morals and not here for the salary.