Must Read British Embassy Bangkok warns of the importance of having medical insurance

[NoshowJones]

1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

Eligibility for free NHS treatment is based solely on residency, not on how much you paid into something or other for x years etc. So no, if you don't live in the UK and are not normally resident there, you do not have the right to free care, no matter what happened or what you did  before in your life.

You may be right, but if anyone is a UK state pensioner living abroad, then flies to the UK for serious medical issues, there is no way any UK hospital would turn them away.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, DogNo1 said:

Simoh1490:

 

What can I say.  Your experience was different than mine.  My stent placements were done 12 and ten years ago.  Perhaps that explains something.  I'm glad to hear that your procedure went well. 

 

I had 2 stents put in at the Bangkok International Heart hospital back in 2006. I called them up on  a Sunday, checked in Monday, was first on the table on Tuesday and discharged on Wednesday. About 250,000 baht IIRC.

 

Excellent service and Dr Witaya Jongsupangkarat did a superb job. He had a British sense of humour too.

[Sheryl]

I said it here once before, what about those of us who are too old to qualify for travel or any other sort of insurance? Maybe we should go home now before they kick us out...........

Unless you are over 100 years, you CAN get insurance. Premiums are higher the older you are, but age alone does not make it impossible to get insured.

The problems are:

1) Older people are much more likely to have significant pre-existing conditions which either lead insurers to refuse them altogether or to apply exclusions (note that it is often still worth taking the policy in that case).

2) premiums are higher and many older people are either unable or unwilling to pay them.

In my many years on this board dealing with this issue I have to say that Brits are, in my experience, more likely to be uninsured and to resist the idea of needing insurance than other nationalities (including other nationalities that also have an NHS).

They also are more likely to have wildly unrealistic expectations of what out of pocket health care will cost and apparently no idea of what it costs in their own country (cost to the NHS or cost to patients in private hospitals) which would otherwise be a good yardstick.

And they are more likely to refuse to believe they will not get free care in Thailand if they are unable to pay.

I have no idea why this is do, but it is.

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[Sheryl]

 
I had 2 stents put in at the Bangkok International Heart hospital back in 2006. I called them up on  a Sunday, checked in Monday, was first on the table on Tuesday and discharged on Wednesday. About 250,000 baht IIRC.
 
Excellent service and Dr Witaya Jongsupangkarat did a superb job. He had a British sense of humour too.

Be forewarned that costs have risen dramatically in private hospitals since then.

More like 500-600k for 2 stent placement today.

Even in the past 2-3 years, big price rises and no sign this trend is slowing down.

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[billd766]

7 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Be forewarned that costs have risen dramatically in private hospitals since then.

More like 500-600k for 2 stent placement today.

Even in the past 2-3 years, big price rises and no sign this trend is slowing down.

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It seems as though I heard the call.

 

Come on down, the price is right.

[simoh1490]

1 hour ago, possum1931 said:

You may be right, but if anyone is a UK state pensioner living abroad, then flies to the UK for serious medical issues, there is no way any UK hospital would turn them away.

Being turned away is not the issue, being made to pay for that care is.

[baboon]

13 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Being turned away is not the issue, being made to pay for that care is.

Panicmongering. As though they can get blood from a stone, not that they even try.

1 hour ago, nickmondo said:

just keep a uk address

If you have sold up in the UK, use the address of a friend.

keep a bank account, credit card etc in the UK and have all statements, cards etc sent to that address.

Keep registered with the doctor that you had when you came here.

its not that difficult surely?

[anon789561]

10 minutes ago, baboon said:

Panicmongering. As though they can get blood from a stone, not that they even try.

they haven't got a good record of reclaiming the money back even from those without british citizenship. google this and look at the farce. 'nhs reclaims for foreign patients'.

almost as if they are trying to bribe the NHS to get the money but they carry the same stance. if they enter our doors and need treatment we will treat them, whoever they are, wherever they come from, we are health workers and got trained to help people so we will. 

we'll leave the money and entitlement shit to you to sort, which you're not very good at it seems.

whats 500 million quid *a year between humans in need eh

 

[Sheryl]

From what I hear from NancyL, who through Lanna Care has been involved in helping repatriate a lot of Brits unable to pay for needed health care in Thailand, there have been many problems accessing care under the NHS after arriving back from abroad. In a life and death emergency where care has to be received at once or the person immediately dies, they'll certainly treat (indeed probably not even check eligibility first) but for chronic health conditions/ essential but not emergency care people have been denied or had to wait until they have proved re-establishment of UK residency.

 

The second case is much more typical than the first in Brits returning hone for care -- people with life and death conditions requiring immediate care are usually not fit to fly. Which is another flaw in the "I'll just return to the UK if I need expensive medical care" line of reasoning. People are often be unable to do so.

 

Perhaps[mention=68373]NancyL[/mention] could comment furthet.

 

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[baboon]

13 minutes ago, Happy enough said:

they haven't got a good record of reclaiming the money back even from those without british citizenship. google this and look at the farce. 'nhs reclaims for foreign patients'.

almost as if they are trying to bribe the NHS to get the money but they carry the same stance. if they enter our doors and need treatment we will treat them, whoever they are, wherever they come from, we are health workers and got trained to help people so we will. 

we'll leave the money and entitlement shit to you to sort, which you're not very good at it seems.

whats 500 million quid between humans in need eh

 

At the risk of going off-topic, I was grilled a while ago by UK Border Security upon arriving back in my native Newcastle. Where had I been? I had been out of the country for quite a while, hadn't I? What was I up to abroad? Why had I returned to the UK?

 

Needless to say I was having none of it: A British citizen entering the UK on a legal passport. Piss off, basically. I phrased it only slightly more politely and sidestepped her questions on general principle. A few days later I was consulting with my GP and there were no issues whatsoever.

 

Just keep a link or two with the UK and they can't touch you.

[anon789561]

12 minutes ago, baboon said:

At the risk of going off-topic, I was grilled a while ago by UK Border Security upon arriving back in my native Newcastle. Where had I been? I had been out of the country for quite a while, hadn't I? What was I up to abroad? Why had I returned to the UK?

 

Needless to say I was having none of it: A British citizen entering the UK on a legal passport. Piss off, basically. I phrased it only slightly more politely and sidestepped her questions on general principle. A few days later I was consulting with my GP and there were no issues whatsoever.

 

Just keep a link or two with the UK and they can't touch you.

only thing i would say is it's through those links that they'd chase the cash. a complete foreigner or even an expat with no links to the uk would be harder to trace the money. i think it almost puts british expats with links to the uk in a worse situation than others.

[simoh1490]

1 hour ago, baboon said:

Panicmongering. As though they can get blood from a stone, not that they even try.

You appear to live in yesteryear, telling us all how much you paid into the system and for what. The reality is today the system has been redefined and I've said the NHS is a residency based system, that's not panic-mongering although in a late night alcohol-fueled rant I can imagine how it might appear so! Wake up, this is 2018, not 1985 and things have changed! Good luck if you don't have UK assets that can be garnished, many others do and the current trend is that those assets will be sequestered if you don't settle your debts.

[baboon]

4 minutes ago, Happy enough said:

only thing i would say is it's through those links that they'd chase the cash. a complete foreigner or even an expat with no links to the uk would be harder to trace the money. i think it almost puts british expats with links to the uk in a worse situation than others.

No cash was chased, in my case. 'They' are / were simply trying it on. 

 

[simoh1490]

35 minutes ago, baboon said:

 

Just keep a link or two with the UK and they can't touch you.

 

Good luck with that gamble, I hope for your sake you are right and it pays off, but from what I've learned about this topic you're on a slippery slope.

[baboon]

1 minute ago, simoh1490 said:

Good luck with that gamble, I hope for your sake you are right and it pays off, but from what I've learned about this topic you're on a slippery slope.

No gamble. I returned to the UK after a few years of pissing blood here in Thailand. Bladder cancer it was, and not the urinary tract infection as was diagnosed.

 

I went to my GP, was fast tracked to hospital, was operated on, had chemo and here I am to fight another day against those who get their kicks from frightening others.

[3NUMBAS]

even if you have some the fine print is so awesome you could get dobbed in the event of a claim

[meechai]

7 hours ago, Maradona 10 said:

Agreed. This obsession with health insurance is nauseating. Most people I know don't have it, up to them, and no they won't expect any handouts if anything goes wrong.

 

It is one thing to say this it is another to follow thru

Lots of bravado in the absence of pain but another ball of wax when the pain twists you

 

Not to mention the chance your unconscious at the time of the problem.

 

[johnj]

I wrote to the then Minister of the DWP., with the following: Would be pleased to hear replies.

 

To Rt., Honourable David Gauke MP                                                            31/10/2017

Minister of Work & Pensions

 

Dear Sir, I would like to request that the Government look at the discriminatory way some pensioners are treated when wishing to retire to some countries, with regard to the state pension annual increase. I have studied the Government position with regard to this and find it incomprehensible that some pensioners wishing to retire in their twilight years to countries where they may have family, to be penalised because of where they wish to retire too. Government legislation states that if you live in a country which has a social security agreement with the UK., you get the annual state pension increase, but if you don’t live in one of these countries you do not get the annual increase. If a pensioner has paid into the NI., contributions all his/her working life, then you should either be given the annual increase if you move abroad, or you should not be given it regardless of where you choose to live. I have read a Briefing Paper Number CBP-01457, 13 April 2017., which states that the UK., will pay the annual increase to retirees that live in any country that has legislation requiring the UK., Government to increase pensions annually. I find it distasteful that the UK., Government it seems will not give the annual increase to pensioners, unless forced to by a foreign Governments requirements. The Philippines is a signatory to this social security agreement with the UK., I have read. I’d like to know how many Philippino retirees are resident in the UK., for the UK., Government to have a reciprical agreement with the Philippines Government. I suspect none, unless they are very wealthy, in which case, unlike most British retirees an annual increase would be of no benefit to any Philippino retirees. I’d also like to ask why if your in receipt of housing benefit, council tax benefit and in receipt of a means tested pension top up, which I am, the time you are allowed outside of the UK., without losing any of these benefits, has been reduced from thirteen weeks to four weeks. In my case I have extended family in Asia and because I cannot go to live with them because of the discrimination to pensioners like myself, with regard to the annual pension increase and the low state pension I receive, I only get the chance to visit them every few years, which is the time it takes me to save enough to make the trip. I’d also like to make the point that the amount of benefits outside of my basic state pension is altogether over 8,000 GBP annually, not including my bus pass and the use of the NHS. Taken that the annual pension increase is approximately, 200 GBP., I would of thought that in many pensioners cases that are the same as mine, it would be grossly more in the Governments favour to allow the annual pension increase regardless of which country you wish to retire too. I cannot see any justification in this descrimination toward pensioners, who as in my case have been low earners in their working lives and do not have access to private pension funds

  

[Fred345]

Things could get worse.

 

They’ve discussed removing the tax allowance from expats. That would, effectively, reduce their pensions by 20%. 

[Odysseus123]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

From what I hear from NancyL, who through Lanna Care has been involved in helping repatriate a lot of Brits unable to pay for needed health care in Thailand, there have been many problems accessing care under the NHS after arriving back from abroad. In a lige and death emergency where care has to be received at once or the person immefiately dies, they'll certainly treat (indeed probably not even check eligibility first) but for chronic health conditions/ essential but not emergency care people have been denied or had to wait until they have proved re-establishment of UK residency.

The second case is much more typical than the first in Brits returning hone for care -- people with life and death conditions requiring immediate care are usually not fit to fly. Which is another flaw in the "I'll just return to yhe UK if I need expensive medical care" line of reasoning. People are often be unable to do so.

Perhaps@NancyL could comment furthet.

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Yes Sheryl,I agree with your "Fit to Fly" comment.

 

I left it almost too late..managed to get back to Sydney,rested for a few days and was then driven by a friend to the local hospital where all hell broke loose-and yes they did quiz me about my residential status when I improved somewhat.

 

A Dutch friend ended up being carted of the plane in Schipol and went straight into intensive care.

 

An American friend (renal failure) kept putting it off and collapsed and died in his Ubon home.

 

Sorry to go off topic a bit but your point is a very important one.

[Sheryl]

even if you have some the fine print is so awesome you could get dobbed in the event of a claim

Nonsense. There is no "fine print" . There are policy documents in perfectly normal size print and these are binding contracts. That some people fail to ever read theirs (or even the one page summary of benefits in some cases) or even find out what amount they are insured up to is not a reflection of deviousness

Literally millions of health insurance claims being paid out daily worldwide and hundreds right here in Thailand, every day.

I find that many of the people who say things like this have no actual experience with health insurance. Some people expect that having any sort of health insurance policy automatically means all health care will be free, like under the NHS. Then when the time comes and they learn they were covered only up to X amount, or have a deductible (excess) or copay, or don't have coverage for outpatient care, etc it comes as a shock. But this has nothing at all to do with "fine print" and is nothing dodgy. It is people not reading their own policies.

The other thing that happens -- not infrequently with expats in Thailand -- is that people don't bother to get insurance until they already have a health issue. Then they get a policy, concealing the existing condition, and try to get it paid for. This constitutes insurance fraud. It is also unlikely to succeed; insurance companies aren't idiots and know perfectly well which medical conditions take a long time to develop to the point of needing treatment. Claims for such things shortly after taking out a policy will indeed be questioned/investigated.

And, of course, all insurers are not the same and there are some less than reliable ones and/or simply inefficient ones to be found. Should also be aware that regulations governing what health insurers are allowed to do, are much more lax in Thailand than in the West. Insurers are governed by the regulations of the country where rhey ate based, not the country where the insured lives.

It is necessary to educate oneself a bit and do some due diligence in selecting an insurer, give some thought to the level of policy, whether to select deductibles etc and to familiarize oneself with the policy terms in advance of needing to make a claim.

The asdistance of a good broker can be very helpful in this.

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[Bangkok Barry]

8 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

You can't really declare yourself, resident, if you are not, the intent of the rule is that the returning expat is settled on a permanent basis, for the time being. That doesn't mean that an expat can simply show up at Heathrow and say, here I am, I'm settled for the time being, they have to be able to support the claim with evidence - all of this is in the documents/link I posted which goes into great detail about what constitutes proof of a claim...time in country, used a one way ticket to get to the UK, disposed of assets in Thailand, transferred assets to the UK, those things are all components of a persons story they will look at.

 

You've listed many things that are not mentioned in the link you supplied, and you are merely assuming that they would want to do an extensive investigation into your situation. I don't believe for a second that they would demand proof that I did not have a ticket to leave the country again at any stage in the future, nor proof that I had sold up in Thailand - cut all ties, in effect. What nonsense. Many Brits keep second homes overseas. Would they be told they have to pay? Basically, the rules merely request that as a UK passport holder one is in the country for a certain length of time. Non-UK passport holders, rightly, have to satisfy far more rules.

[superal]

15 hours ago, alphason said:

I agree we should have insurance, but with the exclusion and costs I understand why many don't have it. 

 

Would be good for the embassy to lobby Thailand to allow those here on long term visas a way to pay into social security without having to be employed.

    I have to say that I had similar thoughts , the long term visa holders to make a contribution for health treatment at the time of paying for their new visa or by a bank direct debit etc . The benefits only click in on a level at say 20,000 baht plus and that would stop small claims and admin costs . So what would you be prepared to pay monthly ? I am guessing but 500 baht a month or £ 150 a year  sound reasonable ?  

I am not sure on the ex-pat numbers in Thailand but there is an opportunity here to benefit all concerned .

As for short term holiday makers , mandatory insurance for all ( including holders of their own private insurance ) on arrival and length of cover shown by the type of stamp in your passport .

Now how difficult would that be to set up ?  If the British Embassy really cared for its people they would be proactive practical and not make stupid statements without thinking it through . Health insurance is beyond reach for many as your age increases . Take a look at Bupa for an over 70 year old guy with any medical history . The subs would take more than his pension .

As said by an earlier post , have regular " well man check ups " and if anything is suspect , get on that plane to the UK where you have legally paid for your treatment by way of NICs . 

[simoh1490]

6 hours ago, baboon said:

here I am to fight another day against those who get their kicks from frightening others.

 

Or as it's known by most people, making others aware of the facts surrounding the issue!!!

[simoh1490]

54 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

You've listed many things that are not mentioned in the link you supplied, and you are merely assuming that they would want to do an extensive investigation into your situation. I don't believe for a second that they would demand proof that I did not have a ticket to leave the country again at any stage in the future, nor proof that I had sold up in Thailand - cut all ties, in effect. What nonsense. Many Brits keep second homes overseas. Would they be told they have to pay? Basically, the rules merely request that as a UK passport holder one is in the country for a certain length of time. Non-UK passport holders, rightly, have to satisfy far more rules.

Perhaps read through the Ordinarily Resident tool notes.

 

 

[NoshowJones]

8 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Being turned away is not the issue, being made to pay for that care is.

So the UK pensioner who is living in Thailand on 25.000 Baht per month, and comes back to the UK because of serious health

problems is going to get a bill for their treatment? and when he cannot afford to pay it, what then? 

I know, he has to join the sleeping in the streets brigade.

[hotchilli]

19 hours ago, Don Chance said:

I saw an advertisement for local hospital insurance for tourists, i think it was 6 days @ 60 baht.  Maybe you can buy it at the airport when you arrive?  I was only up to 400,000 baht though.

Might be enough to buy an aspirin at a hospital. !!

[Loaded]

Nonsense. There is no "fine print" . There are policy documents in perfectly normal size print and these are binding contracts. That some people fail to ever read theirs (or even the one page summary of benefits in some cases) or even find out what amount they are insured up to is not a reflection of deviousness

Literally millions of health insurance claims being paid out daily worldwide and hundreds right here in Thailand, every day.

I find that many of the people who say things like this have no actual experience with health insurance. Some people expect that having any sort of health insurance policy automatically means all health care will be free, like under the NHS. Then when the time comes and they learn they were covered only up to X amount, or have a deductible (excess) or copay, or don't have coverage for outpatient care, etc it comes as a shock. But this has nothing at all to do with "fine print" and is nothing dodgy. It is people not reading their own policies.

The other thing that happens -- not infrequently with expats in Thailand -- is that people don't bother to get insurance until they already have a health issue. Then they get a policy, concealing the existing condition, and try to get it paid for. This constitutes insurance fraud. It is also unlikely to succeed; insurance companies aren't idiots and know perfectly well which medical conditions take a long time to develop to the point of needing treatment. Claims for such things shortly after taking out a policy will indeed be questioned/investigated.

And, of course, all insurers are not the same and there are some less than reliable ones and/or simply inefficient ones to be found. Should also be aware that regulations governing what health insurers are allowed to do, are much more lax in Thailand than in the West. Insurers are governed by the regulations of the country where rhey ate based, not the country where the insured lives.

It is necessary to educate oneself a bit and do some due diligence in selecting an insurer, give some thought to the level of policy, whether to select deductibles etc and to familiarize oneself with the policy terms in advance of needing to make a claim.

The asdistance of a good broker can be very helpful in this.

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Oh I agree, the contracts are water tight to protect them but they are written with enough ambiguity for insurance companies to wriggle out of their responsibilities. If that isn't true, it's still the perception of many.

Don't trust the government and don't trust insurance companies. So British embassy advice can p off imo.

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[Sheryl]

Oh I agree, the contracts are water tight to protect them but they are written with enough ambiguity for insurance companies to wriggle out of their responsibilities. If that isn't true, it's still the perception of many.

Don't trust the government and don't trust insurance companies. So British embassy advice can p off imo.

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The "many" you refer to in most cases have never read an insurance policy. Nor had health insurance. Just repeatong an excuse that they have heard from others who were also using it as an excuse.

International health policies, and Thai policies from the better/larger insurers, -- and I have read many -- are not ambiguous at all. Like any legal contract, all key terms and phrases are defined.

Policies are contracts and commit the insurer to provide specific things subject to specific bonditions. They really, really are not that hard to understand if one simply makes the effort to.

Part of the trounle may be that in addition to not understanding health insurance, some people do not at all understand the components of health care costs and how they are billed. A common mistake I run across is confusing room charges with tital hospitaluzation costs or at keast expecting the room cost to be indicative, which of course it is not.



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[geoffrey morris]

Can you tell me where i can get medical insurance at age 78, ? i have found it impossible