sirineou Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 16 hours ago, jcsmith said: Not to mention there are additional charges that weren't in this case for Manafort. There is supposedly twice as much evidence in the next trial. He's going to be in prison for a long time. Manafort will spend 883 days in jail which is how much time Trump has until his term is over. Trump has litle to gain and a lot to lose from a pardon now,IMO a end of term pardon has being promised and will be delivered. But there is also the State charges wildcard that Trump can not pardon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Credo said: Mueller is very smart. He knows that at any moment Trump could go completely , so Manafort was not prosecuted by Mueller or his team. So, if Trump manages to fire Mueller, his prosecution will continue. I suspect that he is spreading these cases around to protect the integrity of the overall investigation. I wouldn't doubt if Jared K. or Don Jr. are in Mueller's firing line, but Mueller knows that if he goes after them it will be all out war with Trump. I would not be at all surprised if Kushner turns (or has already turned) on Trump. He’s from a family of crooks, his marriage into the Trump family was an ‘opportunity’ it’s fast turning into a ‘liability’, his own family is now at risk. He’ll flip before he’s indicted. And he’ll do it on the quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 55 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: I would not be at all surprised if Kushner turns (or has already turned) on Trump. He’s from a family of crooks, his marriage into the Trump family was an ‘opportunity’ it’s fast turning into a ‘liability’, his own family is now at risk. He’ll flip before he’s indicted. And he’ll do it on the quiet. He is married to Ivanka. He can't do much on the quiet. Mueller is going to go after him, providing he has the evidence. He will want to nail him. This is going to be like having a squealing baby bear cub with the Mama bear not far away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtls2005 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said: I would not be at all surprised if Kushner turns (or has already turned) on Trump. Especially when your Father-in-Law publically humiliates you, by saying he could have had Tom Brady for a son-in-law, and instead he got "Jared". I think Jared is cooked, on so many, many, many fronts, Mueller, New York State, New Jersey, and Congress (if it flips blue). I assume he'd do a runner to Israel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NumbNut Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 19 hours ago, Berkshire said: I can just see Manafort and his lawyers.... Lawyer1: Sorry Paulie, but this is the end of the road. Make the deal. PM: With Mueller? But... Lawyer2: I agree Paulie, make the deal. PM: But Donnie promised me a pardon. Lawyer1: DT can't help you. The feds have got a truckload. And the state charges. Lawyer2: Make the deal Paulie. PM: Donnie will never forgive me. Lawyer1: Don't worry about DT. He's going to go to prison for much longer. He can't hurt you. PM: But... Lawyer2: Make the deal Paulie. The air is much more pleasant outside the prison walls. PM: Ok. Make the deal. The 'Art' of the deal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redline Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 On 8/22/2018 at 6:31 AM, UncleTouchyFingers said: Still nothing on this front. This will go largely overlooked on this forum. Yep, and everyone here will overlook this too. Special council investigations average 3.5 years. As this one is much more complex, give it 2-3 more, then comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redline Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 On 8/22/2018 at 7:53 AM, Spidey said: It's a serious concern. Very difficult to find "12 good men and true" when 40% of the population wear orange tinted glasses and suffer from TDS. Hopefully we will see a Democrat House before the end of the year and impeachment will have more chance of success. The 25th Amendment would be my weapon of choice as it would be impossible for him to defend against the charge of "Unfit to govern due to mental illness". Your 40 percent figure is a bit overinflated. Less than 40 percent of voters are registered Republican, and by the time DTs trash is taken out, his support from them will be depleted. ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcsmith Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 6 hours ago, sirineou said: Manafort will spend 883 days in jail which is how much time Trump has until his term is over. Trump has litle to gain and a lot to lose from a pardon now,IMO a end of term pardon has being promised and will be delivered. But there is also the State charges wildcard that Trump can not pardon. I do agree on the pardon. If Trump pardons him now it will be political suicide. But I do bet that is one of his last moves as president will be to pardon him. As you said though, he can't pardon state crimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtls2005 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Evidently, one single juror held out on the ten charges. He could not be reached for comment as has sailed off on his new yacht. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-manafort-juror/manafort-juror-says-one-holdout-kept-jury-from-convicting-on-all-counts-idUSKCN1L80AA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 7 minutes ago, jcsmith said: I do agree on the pardon. If Trump pardons him now it will be political suicide. But I do bet that is one of his last moves as president will be to pardon him. As you said though, he can't pardon state crimes. He’ll not pardon Manafort, especially as he’s hauled out of the White House. In the first instance: A pardon would remove Manafort’s right to plead the 5th in Trump’s own trial. Secondly: It’s a point of legal contention whether or not Trump can pardon a co-conspirator (and that’s where this is heading). Trump will not want to put out an early pardon then watch it challenged in court, he’ll try to keep his pardon powder dry for when he needs it himself. I very much doubt he’d even try to pardon his own kids, but that’s a matter of his mental health not his powers as President. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac98 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Yes Manafort was a crook before Trump hired him. But that's why Trump hired him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thakkar Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Mac98 said: Yes Manafort was a crook before Trump hired him. But that's why Trump hired him! Indeed. If you listen carefully to all the times Trump is purported to have said he “hires the best people”, in fact what he said was that he “knows the best people” —presumably meaning he knows specifically who *not* to hire and go straight to hiring the crooks instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silurian Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 8 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said: In the first instance: A pardon would remove Manafort’s right to plead the 5th in Trump’s own trial. I keep hearing this but I don't quite understand this point. Couldn't Manafort just refuse to testify at all? Or he could just lie hoping not to get caught. I would assume in either case the punishment would be far less than what he is facing now. And if the trial is still taking place during the current administration, I would think that he could just be pardoned again. I did look at the following article, but I still didn't quite get it... 10 legal experts on why Trump can’t pardon his way out of the Russia investigation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srikcir Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 7 minutes ago, Silurian said: Couldn't Manafort just refuse to testify at all? Sure, his choice. But then he can be cited for contempt (of court or congress) and sent to jail indefinitely (if no Grand Jury is involved that has a sunset provision) until he does testify. As an example where the 5th amendment didn't apply: https://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/07/politics/reporter-jailed-after-refusing-to-name-source.html If Trump then pardons him for refusing to testify, Manafort can repeatedly be subpoenaed to testify and each time Trump must pardon him again to prevent his testimony. The problem for Trump might be that such a pardon might be argued as Obstruction of Justice against Trump, especially if the pardon requires a quid pro quo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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